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National Free Gaza demo 10.01.2009

IMCistas | 10.01.2009 13:27 | Anti-militarism | Palestine | Policing | Repression | World

Two weeks into Israels latest war of aggression against the people of Palestine over 800 people are dead, over 257 of which are children. Around the world there have been militant protests and this weekend saw the second UK national demonstration since the invasion took place in London. Between 50,000 and 100,000 people took part in the march which went from London's Hyde Park to the Israeli embassy. Other demonstrations and actions took place across the country over the whole weekend.

See the whole timeline of events

London: eye witness reports | injuries during demo | another report | photos from demo | more photos 1 | more photos 2 | more photos | anarchist bloc | scuffles behind embassy | riot photos | Ahava store occupied | Song Protest during Pro-Israel rally

Elsewhere: Sheffield report ( photos) | Scotland | Lancaster | Wrexham | Bristol | Brighton | Newcastle | Falmouth | Birmingham



19.15 Some protestors are suffering from the effects of minus temperatures, so it was decided to provide personal information to the police. Protestors are being escorted away from the kettle by riot police in different directions, presumably to prevent the protestors regrouping later. One protestor has said it "reminds her of an Israeli checkpoint". The police horses are leaving now, but there are still hundreds of police vans lining the streets.

19.10 The police are releasing protestors from the kettle one at a time, taking their names, addresses, and photographs through a tunnel of cops. The police have announced that all 1000-2000 protestors in the kettle are suspected of criminal damage. This practice is of dubious legality and protestors are discussing whether to refuse providing personal information.

18.50 Up to 2000 people still reported kettled outside of the Israeli Embassy, a long wait is expected. There are still many people outside of the kettle too.

17.55 The protest is currently split in two halves, with thousands on Kensington High Street where there is a stand-off, and many people still in Hyde Park.

17.40 About between 1000 and 2000 people reported kettled outside of the Israeli embassy. Police on horseback were moving down Kensington Road towards Hyde Park forcing people back.

16.57 Eye-witness saw a Muslim woman with head injuries being stretchered off, and children as young as 10 years old being crushed against barricades after a panic was caused by a charge from the riot police.

16.55 Riot police on foot reported to have fanned out near the Israeli embassy and charged the crowd, forcing them over metal barriers where they were enclosed. People had no where to go and there were many injuries. Two protestors have been spotted being stretchered off in neck braces with what looks like head injuries.

16.52 The police have completely closed off Hyde Park.

16.50 Lines of police horses are now forming. Protestors are forming barricades in front of the horses, whilst a clothing shop has been covered in red paint and about six windows have been broken.

16.45 Starbucks on Kensington High Street has had it's windows smashed using a police barrier. The shop has now been trashed. Starbucks is owned by Howard Schultz who is a staunch Zionist and supporter of the occupation of Palestine. The police attempted to charge the crowd and managed to partially force their way through to the shop resulting in many injuries. Two unconscious police officers were witnessed being stretchered out of the crowds.

16.44 Outside the Israeli embassy there is a stand-off between protestors and police. Protestors have removed some of the barriers again, and a few missiles have been thrown at the police. Three of four lines of riot cops have walked out from near the Royal Garden Hotel into Kensington High Street. They are letting protestors leave but not towards the Israeli embassy. They may soon attempt to kettle the crowd.

16.25 Activists have carried out a direct action against an occupation supporting beauty products shop in London. Ahava sell Dead Sea beauty products which are produced in illegal West Bank settlements. The shop has been blockaded since 11.00am and is still closed. Three activists locked on with a triangular arm lock, whilst leaflets were handed out and locals and members of the public were engaged regarding the crimes of this enterprise. There has been widespread corporate media interest from Sky News, London Tonight, and Associated Press. The three activists have been arrested on unknown charges, and the cutting team arrived a few minutes ago.

16.10 Hyde Park is surrounded by riot police. There are a large number of police horses and riot vans in the park. This presence has made it difficult to traverse the park causing problems for people attempting to find their coaches.

16.00 LEEDS In Leeds a demo involving around 600 people marched around the city centre. There were two or three arrests for so called 'public order' offences. One police officer was threatening people with 'Section 3 of the Criminal Act' which does not exist. At one point a car pulled up with people waving an Israeli flag and taunting the demonstrators. Protestors blocked the car before police moved in.

15.55 The Israeli embassy is now closed off to the public and is lined with riot police in full riot gear and shields. There are unconfirmed reports that some protestors have attempted to access the Israeli embassy from the rear.

15.45 On Kensington High Street the police have put barriers between protestors on the road and the pavement which has caused a crush. The crowd were shouting "shame on you!" at the police who are now wearing riot gear. A man has climbed a lamp post to avoid the crush, and the police are pre-occupied with trying to get him down. Also a smoke bomb was ignited. There are many riot police situated on the side streets of Kensington High Street.

15.30 People throwing shoes and burning placards near Russian embassy, which is close to the Israeli embassy. Cops tried to intervene but had missiles thrown at them by part of the crowd. Riot police turn up later and start beating people who had nothing to do with the earlier shoe throwing, about 7 people were injured including a photographer.

15.20 Confirmed - The crowd outside the embassy pulled apart some of the barriers. They have now been put back again by police, who are now wearing their helmets.

15.10 Near Holland Street, W8, 5 riot vans spotted with another 6 rental vans around the corner. Police are putting on their riot helmets. The crowd is good natured.

13.45 The protest is moving off now.

13.25 It has been announced from the main stage that over 100,000 people are present.

13.10 People have been arriving in Hyde Park for a few hours. There have been some speeches, and there are various stalls for Palestinian liberation groups. There is an anarchist bloc with red and black flags. People are preparing to move off.

IMCistas

Additions

barriers pulled apart outside embassy - now put back

10.01.2009 15:37

15:20 A little earlier parts of the crowd outside the embassy pulled apart some of the barriers. They have now been put back again by police, who are now wearing their helmets.

me


BBC reporter puts numbers in "tens of thousands" - "perhaps up to 50,000"

10.01.2009 16:23

Thought you'd like to know, a BBC reporter outside the Embassy has just said that the police estimate of 12,000 is woefully low and that he'd been watching the march going past the Embassy and puts the figure in the tens of thousands, perhaps up towards 50,000.

tv at home


BBC coverage

10.01.2009 17:06


Really unusual to see the BBC dismiss the police figures, just read this on BBC web site

'The Metropolitan Police says 12,000 people marched but the BBC estimates the figure could be as high as 50,000'

That must mean there are at least 100, 000 people!

Demo in Leeds today, a fair estimate would be 600 people marched round the city centre, many others presumably having gone to London, two/three arrests for so called 'public order' offences. One police officer was threatening people with 'section 3 of the Criminal act', I think he had just made it up as he got angry when people asked him what this new law meant. At one point a car pulled up withh people waving an Israeli flag and taunting the demonstrators, charming.
The Police estimate there were 4 people and a cat (probaby).

Hi


in the thick of it.

10.01.2009 21:41

Four shops in total had their windows put through, two starbucks, one v. posh optitions and for good measure a v. posh clothes shop called top gun (wall to wall fur coats) so was good day for everyone.
the police where extremely violent and willingly pushed large crouds of protesters into and over rows of upturned barrier, this is when many injuries occurd. at least four police helmets, 3 riot shields and some other filth apparel was conviscated by the protesters who used it to defend themselves against the pressing riot cops. fireworks where thrown at police and the bastards in uniform where made to dance as they went off. just an onlooker myself, but one with alot of hatred for the police and respect for the actions of the day. as long as people remember to be selective when choosing targets and protect each others backs may the fun continue.

ARA


Kids getting crushed

10.01.2009 21:48

The children getting crushed next to me were younger than 10. People were shouting "Stop" and trying to tell the police that young kids were being crushed, but it seems that with their riot helmets on they didn't hear. If anyone saw the kids getting crushed and wass reminded of the much worse things happening to kids in Gaza (50% of the population of Gaza being kids or teenagers) it wouldn't surprise me if they lost their temper.

Citizen Smith


More on human casualties & property damage

10.01.2009 22:08

There must have been loads of injuries as things were getting quite intense, but it was difficult to see what was going on in different parts of the protest. I was down some of the side streets acting as a medic some of the time, reluctant to get kettled. Unfortunately, the mass of people down these streets were baton charged many times, and chased by mounted coppers. I had to treat a couple of people with head wounds; one woman appeared to be having a fit (and was taken off by police medics); and I saw two young women being carried away from the chaos looking very distressed - their friends say they'd been trampled on by police horses.

Meanwhile, I know of a number of riot vans which got partially trashed - tyres were slashed, sidemirrors ripped off. Barriers for our protest pens where dragged apart and used to create barricades and loads of stuff was lobbed at the cops in retaliation.
It was incredible to see that people were angry enough to fight back after being clobbered, and wonderful to listen to 'Free Palestine!' and anti-filth slogans echoing down the side streets...

I'm hardly suprised but neverthless disgusted to see the abismal BBC reports. Saw the mainstream media doing a story from a comfortable distance well beyond police lines...

Action medic


hunger strike

16.01.2009 17:42

maria on hunger strike 24/7 outside parliament come end support her

hunger strike
- Homepage: http://www.peacestrike.org.uk/


Comments

Hide the following 27 comments

Thanks for updates

10.01.2009 18:17

Thanks everyone involved in keeping others up to date on here.

anon


...it can't happen here ...

10.01.2009 19:49

... The police are releasing protestors from the kettle one at a time, taking their names, addresses, and photographs through a tunnel of cops. Protestors are being personally escorted away from the kettle by riot police in different directions, presumably to prevent the protestors regrouping later. One protestor has said it "reminds her of an Israeli checkpoint".

who the hell do the police think they are protecting/policing?

are the british public safer?

are the british public represented by people who speak for them?

no on both counts, the british people have been betrayed AGAIN by traitors acting for foreign powers ...

... its time to stop the pretense of 'big' marches and end the seeking of 'good publicity' ...

... it is now time to identify the infrastructure of our betrayal, to put the pressure on those people who act against our interests and to ensure that both are neutralised by whatever means ...

jackslucid
mail e-mail: jckslucid@hotmail.com


Police deserve everything after last Saturday!

10.01.2009 20:53

I was there. I would normally sympathise with the police in that they have a difficult job to do.
However after last Saturday there unprovoked brutal attack on peaceful demonstrators they deserve everything they get. Glad to hear they had some injuries. Having said that I wish all injured today speedy recovery including the police.

Hope the police use their brains next time or surely more violence and injuries to follow.

The police have always given wrong figures for any anti war march. Last time the zionists were in Trfalgar square the police claimed over 50000 yet the square was not even full. However last saturday protesters could not all fit into the square police say 10000.

Why are police lying? What is their interest in downplaying the figures?






Ordinary Protestor


Shame on you

10.01.2009 20:55

Protesters smashing up shops, fighting police, letting off smoke bombs in the name of peace. Shame on you!!!!!!

?????


Shame on you (comment)

10.01.2009 21:00

Here is a shoe for you! :-)

Protestor


No, shame on you

10.01.2009 21:15

Shame on you for deciding that condemning a few punch ups with police is more important than condemning the murder of 827 Palestinians including 264 children over the past 14 days. You are either a warped peace activist or a Zionist.

You will remember this when your grand-children ask you about the genocide against the Palestinian people.

Anonymous


which products not to buy?!

10.01.2009 22:05

Let me and others know which Israeli products are sold in the UK in order to boycott them.

- Mint leaves from Sainsbury!

what else?

guni


Shame on you? Bollocks!

10.01.2009 22:14

What happened today was the police allowed a crush to develop outside the Israeli embassy - a deliberate crush. Both sides of the road were lined with barriers for more than 100 yards before the Israeli embassy, and a couple of hundred yards after. They recognized what was happening, yet did nothing to relieve the pressure: people had to take matters into their own hands. It's unsurprising after a week of protests that people do things some amongst us may find wrong. But I can't fault the targets people hit. In fact I was surprised and pleased by the spirit young people on the march showed. When people ask me what I was up to when the Israeli onslaught on Gaza happened, I'll be proud to say I was there today, and proud to recall the vigor with which the police assault was met by members of the crowd. What next? Saying people who rioted in Trafalgar Square in 1990 shamed their cause? That people who smashed the City in 1999 were shameful? That the men and women who beat the fascists off the street in the 1990s or in the 1930s at Cable Street should hang their heads in shame?

Fuck that! Shame on you for your offensive bollocks.

upthera


@ shame on you

10.01.2009 22:39

You say:

"Protesters smashing up shops, fighting police, letting off smoke bombs in the name of peace. Shame on you!!!!!!"

Tony Blair and Gordon Brown should have rewarded peaceful protest by listening to it when they had the chance. It is Blair and Brown which have taught people (finally) to break windows.

As for the police, they will attack you even if you are peaceful: look what happened at the Climate Camp at Kingsnorth.

The patience of the people is great, but it is not infinite.

Squatticus


some comments and questions....

11.01.2009 01:52

Yes, I was there too, I got crushed at the embassy and yes the barricades were moved by protesters for the right reasons to prevent further crushing. Yes, the police behaviour was over the top - charging at a penned in crowd (in front of the Israeli embassy) was unwarranted, provocative and extremely dangerous. I'm a photographer and that's why I was at the front and my ribs are still sore and I owe a big thankyou to two very big Muslims lads who protected me and got me out to the side. I was probably the last person to escape before the lid was put on the kettle (I've had practice...) And as for horse charges well it's one of their favourite weapons.

But..... It was very predictable that there would be some (young) protesters who would get fired up at the embassy and I think the organisers of the march should have planned for that. The lack of marshalls throughout the day for help or even information was abysmal.

Meanwhile, how can you protest against war and violence by getting violent? That's the same logic as the Israeli zionist government use. When it started to get heated at the embassy I suggested to a mother that she got her small child out of there and she clearly didn't like that comment. Likewise when I suggested to some others that they find some marshalls to help because the lack of them (to help calm things down), was shit. I don't blame the few marshalls that were there by the way, I blame the very-vocal-when-it-suits-them organisers.

In the end I like what Tariq Ali had to say about it -that a few getting into scuffles at the embassy is nothing compared to Gaza. But I'm bored with this bash the pigs shit, it's just childish and gets us nowhere. And it's just a hobby for some people who would probably run a mile if they were in a really serious situation. Try seeing someone get necklaced in India or beaten shitless by the Turkish police and "disappeared as I have. Why can't we really get organised, why can't we launch campaigns on multi-levels from global internet stuff to seriously smart challenges in a variety of ways? Why can't we march without it going off and thus giving the powers that be exactly what they want?

I've had years of this from stonehenge to poll tax and anti war and nothing much changes. For a brief while Reclaim the Streets used their brains and creativity and I had hope that progress was in sight - for protest to be really effective it needs to be truely open to all to participate - even your granny (!) but violence just alienates and ultimately breeds further violence. But then I think it takes guts to be non-violent when the shit hits the fan. And I ain't talking about Gaza I'm talking about London.

lucia


which products not to buy

11.01.2009 02:58

 http://www.bigcampaign.org/
lists them all.

james
- Homepage: http://www.bigcampaign.org/


To Lucia

11.01.2009 10:13

There are several problems with your analysis and call for non-violence.

The police operation was designed to prevent any sort of meaningful protest. You may recall the vast anti-war demo of 2003, the Countryside Alliance march of a year or two before that, the enormous Make Poverty History demo of 2005... In a few years they'll be largely forgotten, because marching from a to b doesn't do anything. It isn't empowering. It doesn't make the government or your target audience think twice about their actions. Trying to claim the moral high ground relies on the people you're trying to influence having morals. And I believe it's quite clear that, among others, the Israeli government plainly doesn't give a fuck about morality.

On a more immediate level, non-violence in the face of police violence is an untenable position. Philosophically, it's hard to make a case for waiting for the police to work out that what they do's wrong. The TSG and level 2 public-order trained officers who were out attacking people yesterday have all the moral capacity of a snail. Most, if not all, TSG officers enjoy what they do, it gets the adrenalin running, and they are trained to view the people they attack as scum. And I for one would rather not confirm their analysis by taking it and not fighting back.

Violence isn't a panacea, and only a psychopath would recommend it as a tactic under any and all circumstances. When people are under planned attack from the forces of the state, as they were yesterday, violence is, though, the preferable option to being beaten up or running away. The police have a long and sorry history of attacking women and children on demonstrations: see, for example, the Independent on Sunday report on the poll tax riot (1 April 1990), which reports the police charging horses up the steps of St Martins in the Fields at the women and children who'd taken refuge there.

Yes, what we faced yesterday was a lower level of violence than some I can think of. But so were fights many of us will have had at school, when attacked by bullies. Non-violence isn't an option when attacked at school, unless you want to have it happen again and again. And it isn't an option when police attack a crowd, when they create a set of unsafe conditions which precipitate a dangerous situation when even without their assault women and children, not to mention men, were put in peril quite deliberately from being crushed. If people hadn't resisted the police then the next time there's a demonstration the police will feel they have carte blanche to do the same thing again, perhaps with more serious results.

People's dislike of the police does not arise from a vacuum. It comes from events like yesterday's, from arbitrary policing on an everyday basis, from experience of the gulf between ordinary people and the police. This is something created by the police, over so many years that it cannot be anything other than a deliberate policy to sow fear within people. As many academic studies have substantiated, this sort of policing is 'colonial', the sort of policing to which people in Ireland, Hong Kong and India - among others - have been subjected. Should we take this lying down and hope against reality that the powers that be listen? Or should we do the human thing and defend ourselves as best we can against this sort of aggression? I suggest most people would agree with me that when under attack only a fool refuses to defend themselves.

upthera


to Lucia

11.01.2009 10:22

Seems you've been looking for the answers to your questions in all the wrong places: 'the organisers', police, state media, politicians. I reckon most of those people came together out of spontaneous grief and anger, using the useful grouping of a Stop the War demo, but definitely NOT under any kind of organised agreement to act in a particular way. People decide for themselves how angry they are, how frustrated that the only way to take action is to target Israeli goods/shops, how furious they feel towards the police protecting property while ignoring the welfare of people. I don't think you have a right to condemn any individual's actions. They weren't representing anyone. They don't represent you. They are only being true to their beliefs and having the courage to see beyond the comfort of their armchair and laptop. As far as I can see, the actions were done out of the greatest love - love for people never met, in a distant country.

anon


Anyone got any video?

11.01.2009 11:16

Of the demo yesterday, please.

richard visionOntv
mail e-mail: richard@visionon.tv


Richard - not looked on youtube yet?

11.01.2009 15:25

bob


a quick response to anon and upthera

11.01.2009 15:28

This is just a quick reply because I don’t have time today to do anything else but I welcome the responses to what I wrote because I am trying to open up a debate here. To that end I’ll try and write an article and post it as soon as I can. But thankyou to both of you for your replies

First of all anon….

I also go on demonstrations because I believe there are times we just have to stand up and be counted and I’m well aware that “the organisers” didn’t organise the response to the police. My criticism is aimed at their lack of marshals when they are happy to spend £20,000 on widescreen tv relays and stages. It was predictable there would be problems with the police and the organisers should have had a strategy in place to deal with that even if that strategy is only to provide information and help. I also don’t look for answers in any other of the places you mention – the police ? Give me a break I’ve read the book, worn the t. shirt etc., and been to hell and back with them. Mainstream media? Not so easy… I can sit here and rip to pieces media ownership for sure but media in general is more complex. Just remember that it was a BBC journalist who exposed the “weapons of mass destruction” bullshit of the government and his boss who supported him (Greg Dyke) had to resign over it. I’ll elaborate on all of it later but I’m not a cheerleader for any of it I just want a more nuanced debate. The poll tax? I was there and it was media colleagues of mine who photographed the police brutality and offered those photos to get some of the people charged in court, acquitted. And it was Jeremy Bowen broadcasting live on TV from Iraq in the first Iraq war, who challenged not only the government’s representation of the bombing of a bunker in Baghdad (they said it was a weapons store – he saw the fried bodies of women and children and no evidence of weapons) but also the BBC studio news presenter. He had an argument on air with him. The next day the whole of the British press attacked him as unpatriotic and much worse. Some of these guys risk their lives and lose their lives to report what they see and they work behind the scenes with Palestinian colleagues in Gaza – it’s just more complicated and I’ll try and elaborate later. But like I said it’s media ownership we need to challenge and not always the messengers.

I agree that people decide for themselves but I differentiate between people who react spontaneously and those who just come ready prepared for a bundle and I know about the latter.. Meanwhile, I wasn’t “condemning” anyone I was raising questions and criticising aspects of the march organisers because I want a debate. But please don’t knock laptop users en mass – they are now a fundamental part of where we need to go – check the Electronic Intifada for just one example of what I mean..

Upthera….

That was a great reply and exactly what I was hoping for in my wish to raise a debate. Your reply justifies a proper response from me and like I said I will try and make that response in an article I’ll post on Indymedia as soon as I can. I’ll also try and post an article I’m writing about Palestine and the surrounding political manipulations.

lucia


Creating Chaos

11.01.2009 17:10

This is being used by the powers that be to create chaos and tribal mentalities between the people, we should all be rising up against them TOGETHER not fighting each other supporting one side or the other.

They will be using the BNP to form hatred against musilm youth and rely on a backlash against these groups from others to create a fragmented and in fighting population who will not work together to achieve common goals in removing these psychpaths from power. (just look at the comments on the youtube video to see this in effect)

We will see continual 'news' and events that are designed to anger the population to revolt yet direct the anger and outrage at a scapegoat group or organisation.
(See the coverage over at BBC on yesterdays and todays marches - they've been labeled as pro-palestine and pro-israeli respectively rather than both as pro-peace)

We must have a clear consistent message of solidarity based on one cause to change our leadership and governments.

What is happening in Gaza is happening because western governments would like to create chaos but through fragmenting the power of the people, they want Iran, the muslim world and the general population to react violently but to direct that anger at each other and not them.

WE MUST ALL ACT AS ONE PEOPLE.

Lets do this continental style next time...

Block roads and 'kettle' whitehall through non violent direct action targeting the ability of government to opperate without addressing the root causes of hatred and insecurity that they are generating.

THEY ARE A LOT MORE SCARED OF US THAN WE ARE OF THEM

Sam


reply to sam

11.01.2009 17:24

The sunday rally was a rally FOR Israel and in support of the actions being taken by the IDF - any suggestion that it was pro peace is merely a cynical attempt to spin the media.

peace my arse


to Lucia (2)

12.01.2009 00:03

"I also go on demonstrations because I believe there are times we just have to stand up and be counted and I’m well aware that “the organisers” didn’t organise the response to the police. My criticism is aimed at their lack of marshals when they are happy to spend £20,000 on widescreen tv relays and stages. It was predictable there would be problems with the police and the organisers should have had a strategy in place to deal with that even if that strategy is only to provide information and help."

It's truer than you might think, about being counted. Not in the sense of the police knowing how many people have been there: they haven't the slightest idea (of which more below), but in terms of the police keeping tabs on people who go to demonstrations. In December it emerged in a court case that the police have a database of demonstrators maintained by the Public Order Intelligence Unit of the Met. This unit was represented on the march by the Forward Intelligence Team, the cops in jackets with blue tops. I expect many people here are familiar with their antics: for information, see the Fitwatch blog at  http://www.fitwatch.blogspot.com/

Police estimates of the number of people on a demonstration are notoriously inaccurate: because they don't bother counting. The last large demonstration at which anyone has a proper idea of the attendance was the Countryside Alliance march of six or seven years ago; and even that has to be treated with caution because of the chance of people going through the counting zone twice. The police claimed there were 25,000 people at the poll tax riot, which gives you some indication of how far from reality they can be.

Marshals or stewards are more often part of the problem than the solution. They generally have no training, and so in any dangerous situation are more likely to be a liability than of assistance. They are responsible (if they are responsible) to the march organizers, and not to the people on the demonstration. Instead of being responsive to the needs of demonstrators, they are more often responsive to police 'requests'. In effect they act as soft cops. Their actions are often to the detriment of demonstrators as their agenda is somewhat different to the people marching. Yesterday the stewards were anxious not to assist demonstrators but to facilitate the police's job. This is not the first time that's happened: it's happened on demonstrations for at least eighteen years. If the stewards had had any interest in the safety of the demonstrators, they would have approached the police and ensured that routes out the crush were opened. Instead they bleated about keeping moving, which in a crush is hardly sensible. They should have been holding people back on Kensington Church Street, to allieviate the crush. And they should have been remonstrating with the police when the crowd was divided by a Police Support Unit or three of the Territorial Support Group. That's if they had any real affinity with the demonstrators. However, as they appeared to be in the main jumped-up students given a modicum of authority, they acted like a bunch of headless chickens when the situation demanded action. They were a disgrace, and were certainly complicit in the dangerous situation into which the crowd was forced.

I hope that on the next demonstration, people let the stewards know what a shower they were yesterday. Having stewards may be a requirement of the police; but it is important that the stewards reflect the march, that they act in the interests of the demonstrators, and that they refuse to act as little policemen. On the last national anti-poll tax march, the people acting as stewards refused to accept to give people orders - rather, they decided to act as a channel of communication, making people aware if a situation developed and relying on demonstrators to use that information as they saw fit. That was nearly sixteen years ago, yet it seems that the organizers of yesterday's march have still to learn that people don't want to be dictated to by a group of so-called stewards who have all the public order nous of a tinned turtle. Until the time that 'stewards' decide that they are whole-heartedly on the side of a demonstation rather than merely plod in disguise, they'll be as much the friends of the demonstrators as the police are.

upthera


How about diversionary attacks miles away from the main demo?

12.01.2009 12:27

It might be a good way of diverting the cops for small groups of mutually trusting comrades to organize guerrilla attacks on high-value targets located sufficiently far from the main demo that cops can't get from the demo to the other attacks fast enough to interfere with them.

That way, the cops would have to keep substantial forces scattered around Greater London and, therefore, fewer of their most skilled thugs within reach of the official demo, or risk having scattered local cop shops, banks, and Israel-connected (or otherwise offending) businesses damaged or destroyed.

Thinking outside of the box


Residents want the protests 'moved'

12.01.2009 13:05

Residents of Kensington (yes, people actually LIVE there!) are calling on the police to 'move the demonstrations' to a different location, as they're apparently disrupting their cushy existence. It was certainly surreal to see people determined to continue shopping in the boutique clothes stores, despite the battles and chaos that was going on around them (and despite the fact that many shopworkers had locked themselves in).

Story:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7822845.stm

Kensington Lady


acting outside the box

12.01.2009 15:36

"How about diversionary attacks"?

People do do this. One of the great things about demos like this is that they do draw police resources away from other targets. You don't even need 'mutually trusting comrades', you can act alone. This is true for any event that requires large amounts of policing, not just demos.

"Until the time that 'stewards' decide that they are whole-heartedly on the side of a demonstation rather than merely plod in disguise, they'll be as much the friends of the demonstrators as the police are."

On demos of this size anyone can don a 50p fluorescent vest and claim to be a steward.

dp


to dp

12.01.2009 23:08

yeh. and they'd have had stewards of a better quality if they'd picked them at random of the street.

upthera


Is there another way?

14.01.2009 17:32

Hi guys.

Its great to see so many people now deeply concerned over the state of Gaza.

But can we please get off the "this march was great because we beat up the pigs".

It doesnt do a lot for wider public sympathy, and will be seized on by the media as a reason to vilify the cause.

Things like attacking the russian embassy, one protester beating another because he saw him holding a placard in hebrew without realising what it meant, you know the drill.

The fact is we get a rent a mob always turning up to rumble with the old bill. This isnt going to change. But hey, you just have to run with it. No point whinging the cops are hitting out when two of their mates have been knocked out and the weather has suddenly made everyone wrap three scarves around their face now is it? There are probably just as many cops who dont want to see the Gaza problem continue, especially as the israelies are bombing pig stations too.

Be more noble, rise above it. If you are fighting for whats right, expect to be punched from time to time.

G


G4Genius

14.01.2009 22:15

G-There are probably just as many cops who dont want to see the Gaza problem continue, especially as the israelies are bombing pig stations too.

That is dubious but still genius. You have me all fired up for a pro-police, anti-IDF act. Thankin you!

F4Fake


Rentamob?

15.01.2009 22:43

G

I've been to literally hundreds of demonstrations in London over the past two decades and I have yet to see this 'rentamob' of which you speak. It's a figment of your imagination. If people want to have a scrap with the old bill, there's many easier ways of doing it. And there are many other venues where if you want to give the cops a good whacking, you can - and stand more chance of getting away with it. Try a town centre on a Saturday night, not somewhere in Kensington with hundreds of cops about and cameras catching your every move. If this 'rentamob' exists, they are either terminally stupid or provocateurs - see, for example, the numerous examples of cops pretending to be black bloc. What I saw, and what most people on this thread seem to have seen, was people responding to pisspoor policing, to a situation in which the police created a situation in which a crush was inevitable and in which they assaulted a crowd of people. Push came to shove and people took matters into their own hands in self-defence. You seem to be relying on utter shit, shit of the sort published by the Sunday Times in 1999 when they claimed everyone out on J18 was paid £30 and given a free packed lunch. I'm still waiting for both.

upthera


One rule for them, another for us

28.01.2009 11:07

Oh the irony, peace protesters on the attack. Any collateral damage?

A zhamd


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