a couple of days ago we posted the following piece.
https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/04/477248.html
Which unfortunately led to a slanging match between various posters(including ourselves) using names with big A's, circled @'s, little a's, the colour black and something to do with blocs (not Lego) . Various threats and rude words were used.
https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/04/477248.html Which unfortunately led to a slanging match between various posters(including ourselves) using names with big A's, circled @'s, little a's, the colour black and something to do with blocs (not Lego) . Various threats and rude words were used.
All this stemmed from one poster who ultimately appeared to agree with the rest of us. Were sure our authoritarian detractors and fellow travellers were pissing themselves.
OK so we know this is a bit of flagrant bumping abuse but we are consciously trying to use Indymedia (though are nothing to do with UKIMC) over other mediums but do not wish to detract from the reports coming from Rossport etc. so we have reposted the entire thread minus the obvious trolls,a pointless reprint from another website and ANY reference to the circled A circular argument.
We know this is a bit hard to read but should be easier than the original thread. we are trying to be read by as many potential activists and specifically the non (or less!) Anarchist ones.
Thanks we will try to shut up now and would be very interested in coherent commentary. And linking.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT AT A POLITE REQUEST ABOUT INFILTRATORS AND THE MEDIA.
Please do not talk to the media any more about PC Mark Kennedy, PC “Marco Jacobs” and PC “Lyn Watson”.
It has come to the attention of the entity known as ABC Annares that a documentary company, Century Films, is contacting a number of people through their personal emails asking for comments for an upcoming documentary to be made about PC Mark Kennedy. We think that they may have been given these addresses by the ex policeman himself.
During the Guardian and Newsnight created hype earlier this year. ABC Annares decided to start compiling a list of the movements of the 3 known infiltrators. We undertook this task not because we wished to create a time line for the purposes of “building a story” ,we did this because we were aware that we have a debt of honour to our comrades world wide. ABC Annares joins the vast majority of people affected by the 3 known infiltrators who sees solidarity as overriding a need to talk to the press. We would like to highlight the clear statements made by Saving Iceland, ABC Berlin , Cardiff Anarchist Network and the more recent joint international statement as ways of communicating a point without prostituting oneself.
To those of you who are thinking of talking to the media further, ask yourselves this. Can you actually think of some way in which your campaigns can possibly be advanced by talking to the media at this time?
Kennedy has teamed up with “PR Guru” Max Clifford. Just as two wrongs don't make a right two liars does not make the truth.
Do you think that Kennedy should profit further out of the career he made off our backs?
The three cops have caused pain and suffering that still continues. There are those who have been to prison because of these scum and there are those who may still. Do not further your own career on their backs!
And let us be clear we are not surprised that we have been infiltrated by Britain's political police. Why? Because the state is our enemy. Those of you “climate activists” who fail to see that you are just a small part of a wider movement as opposed to “The Movement” should remember that all of these police were involved in other “issues” and for the most part were almost entirely focused on the activity of those of us who are proud to stand by the label Anarchist.
And those of you who do not hold this label consider this....
If these (and the RTS and GR) infiltrations have taught us anything it is that if we centralise, the police will infiltrate the centre. Without a centre only the edge can fall victim. Anarchism is both a practical organising method as well as an ideology.
There is not a clique somewhere that has a better line in media communication than you and you do not understand the media better that the rest of us.
We are asking you to not talk to the media about this any more because you have nothing to gain and a lot to loose from further feeding them.
There are many people who have been emotionally scarred by these cops actions. They will continue to be scarred whilst the media bonfire continues. This media fire that Kennedy wishes to stoke needs oxygen. Do not feed the fire, starve him of oxygen.
ABC Annares
2 more things
04.04.2011 21:53
1.If people are on email lists or Facebook or other “social media” that might be read by people who this is relevant too please feel free to copy/link.
2.If we discover that the email addresses were given to Century films by someone other than Mark Kennedy, then Mark Kennedy will not be alone in having to watch their back.
ABC Annares
OK so we know this is a bit of flagrant bumping abuse but we are consciously trying to use Indymedia (though are nothing to do with UKIMC) over other mediums but do not wish to detract from the reports coming from Rossport etc. so we have reposted the entire thread minus the obvious trolls,a pointless reprint from another website and ANY reference to the circled A circular argument.
We know this is a bit hard to read but should be easier than the original thread. we are trying to be read by as many potential activists and specifically the non (or less!) Anarchist ones.
Thanks we will try to shut up now and would be very interested in coherent commentary. And linking.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT AT A POLITE REQUEST ABOUT INFILTRATORS AND THE MEDIA.
Please do not talk to the media any more about PC Mark Kennedy, PC “Marco Jacobs” and PC “Lyn Watson”.
It has come to the attention of the entity known as ABC Annares that a documentary company, Century Films, is contacting a number of people through their personal emails asking for comments for an upcoming documentary to be made about PC Mark Kennedy. We think that they may have been given these addresses by the ex policeman himself.
During the Guardian and Newsnight created hype earlier this year. ABC Annares decided to start compiling a list of the movements of the 3 known infiltrators. We undertook this task not because we wished to create a time line for the purposes of “building a story” ,we did this because we were aware that we have a debt of honour to our comrades world wide. ABC Annares joins the vast majority of people affected by the 3 known infiltrators who sees solidarity as overriding a need to talk to the press. We would like to highlight the clear statements made by Saving Iceland, ABC Berlin , Cardiff Anarchist Network and the more recent joint international statement as ways of communicating a point without prostituting oneself.
To those of you who are thinking of talking to the media further, ask yourselves this. Can you actually think of some way in which your campaigns can possibly be advanced by talking to the media at this time?
Kennedy has teamed up with “PR Guru” Max Clifford. Just as two wrongs don't make a right two liars does not make the truth.
Do you think that Kennedy should profit further out of the career he made off our backs?
The three cops have caused pain and suffering that still continues. There are those who have been to prison because of these scum and there are those who may still. Do not further your own career on their backs!
And let us be clear we are not surprised that we have been infiltrated by Britain's political police. Why? Because the state is our enemy. Those of you “climate activists” who fail to see that you are just a small part of a wider movement as opposed to “The Movement” should remember that all of these police were involved in other “issues” and for the most part were almost entirely focused on the activity of those of us who are proud to stand by the label Anarchist.
And those of you who do not hold this label consider this....
If these (and the RTS and GR) infiltrations have taught us anything it is that if we centralise, the police will infiltrate the centre. Without a centre only the edge can fall victim. Anarchism is both a practical organising method as well as an ideology.
There is not a clique somewhere that has a better line in media communication than you and you do not understand the media better that the rest of us.
We are asking you to not talk to the media about this any more because you have nothing to gain and a lot to loose from further feeding them.
There are many people who have been emotionally scarred by these cops actions. They will continue to be scarred whilst the media bonfire continues. This media fire that Kennedy wishes to stoke needs oxygen. Do not feed the fire, starve him of oxygen.
ABC Annares
2 more things
04.04.2011 21:53
1.If people are on email lists or Facebook or other “social media” that might be read by people who this is relevant too please feel free to copy/link.
2.If we discover that the email addresses were given to Century films by someone other than Mark Kennedy, then Mark Kennedy will not be alone in having to watch their back.
ABC Annares
Comments
Hide the following 3 comments
This is the rest of the comments self edited
06.04.2011 18:18
04.04.2011 22:41
I was contacted last week by these fuckers n imagine they got my details from Kennedy. I would rather cut off my own arm than validate Kennedy's post-cop career as liar-for-hire by collaborating with these scum. Kennedy is just a worthless lying piece of shit, but he has only been able to make money out of his lies because of the media whores who've been sucking up to the Guardian et al. Like them, anyone who collaborates with Century (and so with Kennedy) is a traitor and they deserve to be dealt with accordingly.
Anarchist
Good statement
04.04.2011 23:42
Dunno who you are ABC annares or why you use that name, but that's a good statement. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Perhaps 'sanctions' need to be applied - as they should have been months ago. No wonder Kennedy is still swanning around.
@
@ @
05.04.2011 08:49
Hi about our name, well we are no less anonymous than @, @!
The name ABC Annares was chosen at the height of the media whirlwind as a name we would use to try and focus minds on compiling public information about the infiltrators rather than commenting on what was happening in the “mainstream press”. It was chosen to highlight the historic support role that ABC groups have performed for the last 100 or so years. We are not a “real” ABC group we are a “virtual” ABC though we support our “real” world cousins completely. Annares is the name of a fictional Anarchist world, so as we were not “real” we decided to use the name of a fictional place. As we were attempting to compile a full story of the infiltrators we realised that the press would be very interested in our “access”. As you may gather from our statement above we are not interested in being contacted by the press.
But seriously now
If you think you might be on lists etc. That might have people who been contacted by Century Films please point them at this statement (or write your own) we are trying to be as polite as possible to those who might talk to the Kennedy/Clifford team but are aware that they may not read Indy regularly and are very likely to move in slightly different circles to ourselves. So if you have some media loving “friends” please engage them and ask them to stop.
Incidentally we are only asking people to stop talking to the media about Kennedy (or any of the other infiltrators) we are not entering into either a debate about media policy in general or picking over the coals of what happened earlier in the year.
ABC Annares
ABC Anarres
05.04.2011 09:19
Thank you for that. I am an ABC activist myself and very much appreciate what you are doing.
@
pity about the pompous idealogical rants
05.04.2011 11:50
I don't support how a few climate activists talked to the media, ignoring what other said (including the ex-friends of Mark K in Nottingham - a group you noticeably don't mention).
But I also don't support you shoving all climate activists and careerist media lovies together, as if all are the same.
Oh, if you're still wondering about Anarres, it's out of an Ursula Le Guin book called The Dispossessed. Read it.
That said, I do repeat your conclusion - Do not feed the fire, starve him of oxygen.
@ and climate activist
Hope this helps clarify
05.04.2011 15:33
@ (a) and climate
We apologise if the original post seemed pompous. The metaphysical entity that is ABC Annares is also both anarchist and climate activists. If you can think of a different approach to encouraging people to blank the Kennedy/Clifford extravaganza then please please do it.
We have not actively omitted any group of people we are not trying to analyse the past (well not that much anyway).
The reason why we said the “proud to stand by Anarchism” comment is because we believe that, as Kennedy implies in Guardian Weekend, he is trying to exploit the good protester bad protester perception. He highlights how good some aspects of climate activism are (which he of course didn't want to disrupt) and he was just there to catch the baddies. (I.E the A's)
If there is some truth in this then it was us (the A's) who were being targeted. So people who do not identify as A's may wish to take a deep breath before talking to the media about how “their” movement was infiltrated. Watson was the accountant at Leeds' Autonomous social centre, Jacobs was mainly involved with Cardiff Anarchist network and Kennedy was even on the German payroll to infiltrate Berlin ABC and AntiFA. All three of them initially infiltrated Dissent! Jacobs and Kennedy were active in Dissent! meetings throughout europe up until 2009.
The point were trying to make is that non (A) Climate Activists need to be aware that they are not alone in being affected by the infiltrations but to date have been almost alone in talking to the press about it. They certainly cannot speak for the vast majority of people affected who are staying silent. (fuck never thought we would be in a “silent majority”!)
We may be making assumptions but we suspect that non (A)climate activists are the people most likely to talk about this (as they are already in CiF pieces) we are actually trying to appeal to them.
We know the talking to date has only been by a tiny minority.
That said we are aware than in the case of Jacobs and Watson the Guardian provided the final confirmation so proved useful. We are also aware than some of the leaks regarding Kennedy came from the CPS of all places. We are not irrationally trying to promote an anti media agenda.
We are trying to convince people that there is no good that can come from talking to Century Films.
Irrespective of what has happened in the past.
ABC Annares
Debate
05.04.2011 18:57
This is a well written statement expressing a thought out opinion on this matter, which,having read I'm pretty sure I agree with. Nobody as yet has put the alternative view in a coherent manner, but I would like to hear that side of the argument.
Like many other people though I'm thoroughly sick and tired of the random non constructive abuse that gets slung about on here, especially with regards to this issue. I'm not surprised people won't put forward a point of view as it turns so nasty here so quickly. Reading the 'debate' on here around the infiltration issue has made me wish the newswire would close. I think sometimes it does more harm than good.
Sick and tired
time to be a bit smarter?
05.04.2011 19:20
One of the most important sources of information about Kennedy etc was Indymedia. And now you're doing it again.
Publicising the actual documentary company gives free advertising, to exactly the community they want. Now maybe some fame-seeker who didn't know Kennedy will now contact them.
Even if it doesn't provide a person, this thread may end up in the documentary (just as past indymedia comments ended up in the national press), to show how 'scared' he is etc.
Its clear that Kennedy is desperate, and this post is helping him find someone.
Less silly circle-A posturing, and more thought please.
irony
A few points
05.04.2011 20:19
I agree with irony about advertising details of the company, don't know why it's there. Good original statement, shame it has to be said. ~~~~~~~~~~~A small number of people chose to ignore the damage they might do to those who were closest to Kennedy by feeding the media frenzy. For that they deserve to be called 'traitors'. That is not a term of abuse, it is an accurate description applied to them and anyone who talks to Century.
anon
wondering about documentary
05.04.2011 20:20
I am wondering how they will do that documentary actually because it is so absolutely impossible to recreate the atmosphere of these big events and they were just all so unique.
Seems to me it would be a pretty dry talking head film anyways with some disjointed direct action news footage around. So it will be a pretty bad documentary anyways, another reason to boycott participating in it.
Well, have to say the first interview with Mark Kennedy in the Daily Mail was kind of a good read but the one in the Guardian did just seem like an extended repeat and with the PR agent involved it was kind of getting so boringly dishonest and so wanting-to-please-everyone and wanting-to-make-money-out-of-it.
Mark Kennedy is being "Jade Goodey-ified", looking forward to seeing him in the likes of Heat Magazine, "I am a Celebrity get me out of here" and "Celebrity Come Dine With Me" now that the professional Big Brother series isn't anymore!
ab
A 'celebrity'?
05.04.2011 21:47
The only thing this guy has ever been good at is lying - and ultimately he fucked that up and was caught out by a bunch of 'amateurs'. If he's trying to make himself a 'celebrity' it's at the expense of those he spied on as a cop and by invading their privacy even further. He is absolute scum.
Mac
How will they do the documentary?
05.04.2011 22:07
They'll have plenty of footage of the Flash Posing Wanker himself, archive footage of events and actions he was involved in, some other journos and cops/ex cops possibly, and interviews with any 'traitors'. And they'll go round and pester, door-step and/or film surreptiously those who Kennedy spied on as a cop and fingered as an ex-cop - people who have so far shown a lot of dignity and who shouldn't be getting more shit because a dirty ex-cop wants to sell a pack of lies to the media.
Mac
Differentiate. Educate.
05.04.2011 22:13
I think we need to differentiate between the “Kennedy/Clifford extravaganza” and the useful investigative journalism that outed Watson and Jacobs, and highlighted this issue again.
I also think people should also be very wary of being seen to shut down any debate on this. That just makes those people who were close to Kennedy before his outing look very self-protecting, and leads to suspiciousness, such as the 'boys from the grassy knoll' piece.
It is important to let the wider public (including the working class) know how the state operates.
Having said all that, this Century Films thing looks like a vehicle for Kennedy, and one to be avoided.
sensible observer
How will they film it?
05.04.2011 22:13
In Flash-back.
ann archy
Differentiating between media
05.04.2011 22:42
In my opinion the very worst piece was the one in the Guardian magazine. The fact that Kennedy is profiting from the Century docu-drama should be enough to put any self-respecting activist off. There have been a number of good statements on the Kennedy affair by those affected., they should be enough, and if people ignore Century's emails, they will be.
Black Hand
Sensible observer
05.04.2011 22:55
I think the working class know better than anyone how the state operates. Its the middle-class 'activists' who seem surprised by their ruthlessness.
Anon
Not investigative journalism
05.04.2011 23:35
It's very clear from the email I received from Century that this is not an investigative documentary. Rather, it is yet another paid opportunity for "Mark to tell his side of the story" and I think anything activists say will just be used to validate what is not really much of a 'documentary' at all really. Kennedy will inevitably lie through his teeth and will be being paid a lot of money. It'll be me and my pals that'll be getting bad-mouthed not the few liberals and careerists who ran to the press last time, so if you are contacted please show some solidarity with us.
Anarchist
A response to our detractors using polysyllabic words and no circled A's
06.04.2011 12:09
We apologise to Indymedia in general if our piece led to a certain amount of posturing in some corners (including ours) but we will try to move this discussion on by responding to some of the more articulate comments raised though please be aware that it is difficult (impossible) to disentangle our own politics from this situation
We are specifically trying to reach out to people we may not know but may have been contacted by Century Films. Whilst this means that all our comments are read by PoliceandPress we believe that this is a worthwhile sacrifice for reaching other activists.
Whilst mudslinging exists on Indymedia we believe that its virtues of being both (relatively) public and (relatively) anonymous mean it is potentially a more constructive forum than for example a closed email list. Surely a situation such as the Climate Camps or RTS where the police did know what was happening (because they were in the closed groups) and the majority of activists didn't is the worse possible situation. This is possibly the key tactical lesson to be learnt from the infiltrations.
Whilst being aware that the PoliceandPress will use comments posted on Indy. There is little of a “story” here, “anarchists won't talk to journalists/still not loving the police” is hardly hold the front page stuff.
But if somebody replies positively to Century Films approach then they may be able to create the illusion of “balance” this will make the documentary far more marketable. Like battery chickens the “mainstream media” lives of its own shit. If Kennedy drops some Clifford constructed titillation into the documentary then the whole feeding frenzy will start again. By actively working to make the documentary as lopsided and boring as possible we hope to abort it.
We would be very surprised if serving cops talk to the film company (“ongoing operational matters do da do da”) we doubt that the security consultants would talk to the press (“nothing to do with us mate we don't even exist honest”). which means if the activists don't talk to the documentary, it will be a very very boring film,comprised entirely of the mutterings of a broken man pretending he used to be a monk.
ABC Annares
Yet more waffle from ABC Annares
06.04.2011 13:11
For the purposes of this post the metaphysical entity ABC Annares may start using the first person further blurring the boundary of numerical linguistic reality.
Speaking as a working class activist I think that “anon” and “sensible observer” are both making assumptions. Though I do recognise the point that it is the activists who seemed incredulous that we are infiltrated that might need more educating in the nature of the state, than for example other members of our class imprisoned for “criminal” activity.
Also I hope “sensible observer” can see that stifling debate or dismissing the media out of hand is not our intention here. We know full well the role that the Guardian played in the outing of Watson and Jacobs, but ultimately it was merely the final 1% proof to activists who already ”knew”.
I think we are trying to differentiate between different media approaches. In the original statement we highlighted CAN's role as an example of ways the media can be handled. As far as I can see they gave the Guardian one not very exiting story , Issued a measured political statement through Fit watch and successfully outed a cop, who as far as is known isn't currently engaged in a kiss and tell arrangement with Max “ate my hamster” Clifford.
Irrespective of what has happened so far with regards Kennedy (who was revealed on Indymedia) It is my belife is that it is in our interest to stifle the media so as to allow the various debates that need to happen to happen out of the media glare. The “mainstream media” is not a good forum for debate though “in public” might be.
TA
Shevek
ABC Annares (Shevek cluster)
ABC Annares
subtle overtones
06.04.2011 19:38
ABC Annares
Meaning what exactly? Maybe its a regional thing but this seems like a threat of violence or is it just cheap talk?
anon
read BUSTED! by pritchard and laxton
07.04.2011 11:38
I was leafing through it a while back and it seemed dated, but suddenly how RELEVANT NOW!
not edifying by any means, but essential reading for the times i'd say.
underwary