Camden Bio Hazard and Animal Lab - Environment Disaster public meeting in Camden

Not going to win the argument on the issue of location:-

Currently, all of the UK's ten CL4 facilities are located in the south of England, although CL3 facilities are widely distributed.[167] Some CL4 facilities, such as IAH Pirbright and the laboratories at Porton Down, are situated in relatively isolated locations but this is not the case for all. A number of CL4 laboratories exist in large cities around the world, including three in London which have been in operation for some time.

There are already labs in London that 'contain' a higher level - this is an AR issue campaign on that platform or if you can't let somebody else do so.

...a serious virus/disease came throught the chunnel? Where would you be then? Would you help protect my family in North London from contracting it? Could I post a message on indymedia.org.uk and ask for your guidance then? I guess not.

Not everything has a sinister side. Perhaps over cautious, but not the disaster predicted.

''Foot and Mouth disease was leaked from a govt facility Pirbright in Surrey'' - this is just a theory, right? Shouldn't you state that? Whether you 'believe' it or not?

Everytime the government does do something truly in need of question, it's over reactionary groups like yourselves who make it more difficult to fight.

St Pancreas is an International 'port' now, like it or not. There needs to be a facility there to deal with 'outbreaks'.

Please...

I've repeatedly pointed out the naivety of panicking about a new level 3 or level 4 facility in that part of London. What - you think that there aren't some a few minutes' walk from the site already? Have you not noticed how much scientific and medical research goes on in Bloomsbury, one of the capital's main research centres? Jeesh.

"But they might have weird tropical diseases! There could be an outbreak!" Really? Better tell the London School of Tropical Diseases over on Malet Street. (It was particularly funny when the campaigners tried to turn this into a class issue, saying such a lab would never be built in a posh area. Yeah - cause Bloomsbury, just across the Euston Road, is such a poor working class neighbourhood ...)

The old run-down labs in different parts of the UK may be cause for concern. But it seems misguided to worry about a new, all mod-cons one, and just smacks of NIMBY-ism.

Getting into bed with the AR brigade would also seem dumb, given some of the daft claims they made - later disproved - about how the centre would have lots of primates and so on.

And anyone who thinks that a terrorist bomb could unleash a virus from a lab should go and sit with the homeopathy brigade in bad science corner.

As for the ranting spammer who appears to have a personal vendetta against Stop Camden Bio Hazard and Animal Lab Coalition campaign and seems to be obsessed with "brigades", you are completely wrong and wouldn't you be better off sticking to your rants about the North of Ireland?

This IS an environment issue, like it or not and we don't want the lab here in Islington or next door Camden.

You say I'm "completely wrong". I pointed out that older level 3 facilities, and facilities handling dangerous tropical diseases already exist a few minutes walk away from the site. In what way is that not correct?

 http://www.rae.ac.uk/submissions/ra5a.aspx?id=3&type=uoa&subid=2277

Secondly, I don't recall ever posting anything on here on the subject of northern Ireland. Maybe my memory's going, so I'd love to know what you're on about.

The Green Party, Respect Party and others including MI5 have spoken out against the lab. To say that this is an "AR" issue only when it is in fact an environment, ecology, local and residents issue is such a silly thing to say. These comments all seem like a personal attack from the same person.

Oh and foot and mouth disease was leaked from a lab...

"These comments all seem like a personal attack from the same person."
Given that the first poster's main argument was that the campaigners should switch to being AR activists - and I argued that that would be really stupid - your intuition seems out.

There is nothing "personal" about this. When politicians and the press scaremonger, Indymedia contributors rightly point out what they are doing. Why can't it be pointed out when campaigners scaremonger (like all this "It'll be like 28 Days..." stuff)? And why can't some people think that a lab that could help the fight against cancer, and illnesses such as malaria which kill thousands of people in the developing world, is a more positive development for the world than a NIMBY campaign.

"Yes - but MI5 says it's a danger". Oh right - according to an article in the Evening Standard two years ago which said it understood that spies were concerned of the risks if the lab studied stuff like ebola... which it is now very clear it won't. Not even a vague attribution for the MI5 claim, incidentally, no mention of which ministers in which department they warned. The story was weak enough not to be followed up by any national papers (which usually love a good scare story about viruses and spies). It's so weak that the scientists setting up their lab flatly say on their website's Q&A that it's untrue that ministers were warned (a risky strategy, if the scientists are lying, as one little Freedom of Information request from a campaigner could show them up - why not try it?). It's also funny that the strongest anti-lab quotes in the Evening Standard piece came from an MP who then got caught out for a massive pile of dodgy expense claims. But, hey, let's trust him.

As for Pirbright - yes, it's really scary that there are level 3 labs in the UK that are that old and delipidated; scientists have been warning about problems like that for years ("shabby" Pirbright finally won funding last year for a massive rebuild, arguably too late). But that's all an argument for getting the researchers into a decent modern one, rather than leaving them in one of the older ones that are already there, a stone's throw from King's Cross.

The scientists at the NIMR have said that the move to Kings Cross will be bad for sceince. Listen to them. They know what they are talking about.

They are not AR activists or NIMBYS.

As for the stuff about MI5, they did go to the Evening Standard and are such a porweful entity that they would have gone to the major newspapers themselves to say "we didn't say it" if they didn't but they did.

It its not just Ebola that poses a problem. Bird Flu, anthrax, rabies all pose a threat and the prospect of having something like this so close to the Channel Tunnel is agodd reason for NIMBYism when it comes to the staff at St Pancras International who do not want this lab near to the station and who can blame them?

I agree that the first post looks like personal rant but that isn't an issue for me to take up, I am against the lab for all sorts of reasons and the site should be used for badly needed housing.

The head of the NIMR went to the Camden New Journal to speak out against the UKCMRI project, a local pharmaicist has said it's dangerous and belives there has been a cover up over the lab, these people work for the industry and are not against research but they are against the lab. Your "what about cancer" argument has not convinced them.

I don't think that you have the right to tell Nathalie Bennet of the Green Party [a Camden resident], Cathryn Symons of the Green Party [a Camden resident] or myself [a Camden resident] or Candy Udwin [a camden resident] or Dave Hoefling [a Camden resident] or Halal butcher Mukul Hira [a Camden resident] or Cllr Roger Robinson [a Camden resident], Camden Anarchists [Camden residents], Cllr Alexis Rowell [Camden resident], Camden New Journal, scientists form NIMR, MI5 etc that this is an "AR issue" and that we should all campaign on that issue or "if we can't let someone else do it".

This ISN'T simply an AR issue and people who eat / sell meat or work in the labs have a right to speak out against the lab if they so wish.

We believe that the person who wrote the first post is a thug who has threatened Camden residents and activists in regard to this lab while posing as such himself but residents continue to campaign...whatever their views on animals. Well done to each of the people who continue to campaign.

This isn't an "animal rights" campaign but we have contacted BUAV and other animal defence support groups.

If this is not an AR issue then why is it that the very same text used by Mandy Ford forms the basis of the WDAIL website page promoting people to demonstrate outside the site. Text which has already been referred to as inciting alarmism.

If you really care about Camden and its community you wouldnt encourage AR activiists in to our community. Oh yes I am a Camden resident and I live in Somers Town just over the road from the site. You would do so much better telling the truth rather than making wild unsubstantive statements. I have been to 4 public exhibitions by UKCMRI. I don't want them, I dont want some hugh building over shadowing my house but the one thing I now understand is that if you stand there, behave rationally, be truthful, and believe in what you are saying you come out far better than those making wild stupid and obviously alarmist statements. Oh but of course when they do it that is considered patronising.

I will object when the application is made, but for real community reasons. To Mandy and her team, take the moral high ground, be truthful stop being alarmist because for as long as you do the valuable points that you are trying to make will be ridiculed, by your own behaviours. Take the high ground, be truthful, balance the real facts. I believe in what UKCMRI proposes. I think it is a great thuing that these people want to focus on these key illnesses, illnesses that kill people in our community every week. But I believe that here is not the right place. I think teh building is over development of a small site. I beleive that the site could be better used buit lets also accept that even if we get housing here we, the community, and our children wont get it. The councils housing policy means that it will be assylum seekers long before our families.