"Afghan betrayal"

What would be the point previous poster?

The next days headlines would still be,

"PM INSISTS CRATER OCCUPATION CRUCIAL TO MISSION SUCCESS"

democracy has been blatantly rigged there, here its alot more subtle& there thankfully isnt the same level of violence. If I was afghani I would try to do mass blockades of the oil, any army seen as a occupation force is going to be targetted by a population& Obamas rubberstamped the false elections. Unless theres massive compensation to the millions of victims in the middleast& the UKUS forces leave it will still be considered invasion by most.
Only free elections with direct democracy, so the people can choose their method of stabilisation will work.
Shame on Bush & the Oil corps for making this war!

The idiot murdered 5 people. Plain and simple.
Dilluting this fact by coming up with execuses is not being impartial

He murdered 5 people. Stick him in any court and he wouldn't have any credible defence.

Our forces are being wasted in Afghanistan to help build a pipeline& steal oil for fatcats who invest a pittance in sustainable technology.
Billions think how come 5 UK soldiers make headlines about justice when around 50 afghani civilians missiled at a wedding dont,
if we put the pilot who killed the 50& Bush with Bin Laden&this trainee Afghan policeman into the referendum that should please almost everyone.

The families of our lads & all afghani victims should get£250,000 each from oil companies involved minimum+ our lads should be getting 25k minimum,not 17k&only be used in defence of democracy.

Ocassional Global referendums on this & other important issues via possibly the UN with direct democracy on the working swiss model would stop most conflict, especially if successful allotment methods used in ancient Athens where modern democracy originated were used to stop corruption& delegation methods as used by cooperatives.

 http://campaignfordemocracy.org.uk/ please support this & continue to campaign+ work with local communoity,

Lets reclaim Democracy & make it Global,
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/11/441277.html?c=on#c236627

Our forces are being wasted in Afghanistan to help build a pipeline& steal oil for fatcats who invest a pittance in sustainable technology.
Billions think how come 5 UK soldiers make headlines about justice when around 50 afghani civilians missiled at a wedding dont,
if we put the pilot who killed the 50& Bush with Bin Laden&this trainee Afghan policeman into the referendum that should please almost everyone.

The families of our lads & all afghani victims should get£250,000 each from oil companies involved minimum+ our lads should be getting 25k minimum,not 17k&only be used in defence of democracy.

Ocassional Global referendums on this & other important issues via possibly the UN with direct democracy on the working swiss model would stop most conflict, especially if successful allotment methods used in ancient Athens where modern democracy originated were used to stop corruption& delegation methods as used by cooperatives.

 http://campaignfordemocracy.org.uk/ please support this & continue to campaign+ work with local communoity,

Lets reclaim Democracy & make it Global,
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/11/441277.html?c=on#c236627

How many people had those five idiots murdered before being killed themselves? Of course justice was never going to apply to them. It's one rule for occupying forces and another for the resistance which so many of you are eager to generalise as Islamic fundamentalists.

"The idiot murdered 5 people. Plain and simple. Dilluting this fact by coming up with execuses is not being impartial He murdered 5 people. Stick him in any court and he wouldn't have any credible defence."

Here is the defence for a man who is currently facing a death sentence from the SAS without any trial, any witnesses, jurors or judges. I'd like you to listen to it and respond.

You were 17 when your country was liberated from the Taliban by the forces of democracy. You probably shaved your beard that day. You must've seen an instant improvement when Taliban restrictions were lifted, visible signs like kites and because later you would join enroll to extend the freedoms, to progress your country from one of death to one of hope. But things didn't improve. The new rulers were just as unjust as the old rulers. If you voted in the election your vote wasn't counted. Close family will have been killed recently, the others main hope is you and your salary. But then the local warlords man, the one guarded by his own men and by British soldiers, he takes a fancy to you. He gets his men to bring him to you, then has them beat you up. Then he sodomises you, he does everything that turns him on to you, then he throws you out. You are now 'bacha bazi', in Pashtun that means 'his bitch'. A warlord privilege. In Scotland we rebelled because the lords would rape the peasant women, but in Afghanistan, where homosexuality is a punishable sin, the lords rape the peasant males. Without any law to prevent it. So.

You are back at work the next day, and the following days that take where you measure your life and your worth. You are armed. You want to kill the commander who abuses you but he is protected by British troops. You know you have to go through them to get to him. Amazingly, unexpectedly, you survive and so you go on the run. At this point in time, you are only safe with the Taliban. They then hail you as a hero. The British who failed to protect you know condemn you as the worst of traitors but who betrayed who - are you still so sure? Cos that is the story slowly being released drip by drip, read the Times article I linked to.

I'd suggest the guilty party are the US and UK politicians who employ the rapist commanders. I don't think British troops should feel in anyway entitled legally or morally to shoot this guy. I believe if he was promised an international trial he would hand himself in. I wouldn't convict him of murder, manslaughter at worst or perhaps just self-defence.

Any thoughts, Lost?

Yes, i have a few. But whatever your excuses, they are still going to do what they are going to do.

But I don't know where you got this information about the guy being raped by warlords. Where the heck did you get all that?

I think you've taken that information and tried to attach it to this guy. Thats lieing and deceitful - and is pretty pointless to respond to. We could equally paint of picture of him being a raving homosexual pyschopath and that all the soldiers were feeing orphans but i cant be bothered.

Now, this guy shot lots of people and killed 5 of them. Remove all the wishy-washy stuff about so called patriotism for his country - he still is a killer, and I bet it was pre-meditated so it is murder.

>But I don't know where you got this information about the guy being raped by warlords. Where the heck did you get all that?

From The Sunday Times
November 8, 2009
Is it time to pull out of Afghanistan?
"
The 25-year-old, an unmarried man called Gulbuddin, was part of a 15-strong team that manned a police station in the Nad Ali district, in the heart of Helmand’s poppy-farming lands. Embedded with the Afghan police were two trainers from the Royal Military Police and a protection force of 14 soldiers from Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion, the Grenadier Guards. The Taliban subsequently claimed Gulbuddin as one of theirs. Senior sources say local intelligence shows the claim is false, however. In addition, witnesses contacted by The Sunday Times say other factors lay behind the massacre. According to two Afghans who knew him, Gulbuddin had complained of being brutally beaten, sodomised and sexually abused by a senior Afghan officer. A policeman named Ajmal, a friend of the gunman, said Gulbuddin had been constantly tortured. “He was being used for sexual purposes,” said Ajmal. Another policeman, Kharullah, who was injured in the shooting, said: “Gulbuddin was beaten many times and that’s why he got angry. One day when he was patrolling with British soldiers, he swore he was going to kill him.” When Gulbuddin opened fire with a machinegun, his target was his alleged abuser. According to the Afghan sources, the five British soldiers were killed simply because they were present and considered to be the man’s protectors. Even if that is the case, the shooting casts doubt on British efforts to build an Afghan police force free from corruption and abuse. In sexually repressed Pashtun society, it is common for those in dominant positions to take young men as sexual partners — known as bacha bazi — even though the penalty for anyone caught engaging in a homosexual act is brutal.
"

Tell me the name of one British squaddie who wouldn't go on a killing spree if his commander raped him.

1) people get raped all the time and they don't go on killing sprees. Even Jorden got raped, but she didn't shoot 5 other people

2) Why shoot 5 british soldiers because you've been buggered by your commander? Thats not a defence! If he said that in court it would not be a lidgit excuse

3) Where do we draw the line if it is ok to shoot 5 other people for being raped? Can i go to shopping center and shoot 5 people because someone called me 4-eyes?

I'm sorry, but even if someone is raped, you cant go around on a killing spree. If it happened in this country, people wouldn't let him off the hook.

They've obviously got weird customs in their country that we may well feel are akin to the dark ages of having boys to use as concubines. But that doesn't mean we have to abide by those customs. Frankly they all sound barking mad with either boy-rape on one side or the taleban on the other

"Stick him in any court and he wouldn't have any credible defence."

The Sunday Times just gave him a credible defence. Kill this guy now and you are slaughtering a rape-victim who snapped. He is more a victim of the MoD than anyone. Bring him to a court of law by all means, but don't shed your blood over it, don't risk the lives of innocents. Please keep the US drone jockeys out of this.

You do not have the right to kill this guy yourselves and I think in time his victims families will agree that a trial is just. Just not worth you dying or killing for.

>1) people get raped all the time and they don't go on killing sprees. Even Jorden got raped, but she didn't shoot 5 other people

Ir-fucking-relevant. If someone had raped you, and you were a volunteer policeman defending democracy, yet you remained armed, you wouldn't view his bodyguards as expendable?

>2) Why shoot 5 british soldiers because you've been buggered by your commander? Thats not a defence! If he said that in court it would not be a lidgit excuse

Actually it is, and so it should be. If someone beats you up and rapes you then many jurors and judges will excuse any revenge.

>3) Where do we draw the line if it is ok to shoot 5 other people for being raped? Can i go to shopping center and shoot 5 people because someone called me 4-eyes?

No. The line falls somewhere between being raped by a cop and being called 4-eyes.

>I'm sorry, but even if someone is raped, you cant go around on a killing spree. If it happened in this country, people wouldn't let him off the hook.

I would. Most of my friends and family and neighbours would. Who are you speaking for?

>They've obviously got weird customs in their country that we may well feel are akin to the dark ages of having boys to use as concubines. But that doesn't mean we have to abide by those customs. Frankly they all sound barking mad with either boy-rape on one side or the taleban on the other

It is Barking mad. Whatever your opinions on other subjects we have to stop this madness, by withdrawing British troops today. The British people have helped install a worse government than the Taliban.

Well, i guess your opinions differ to mine. But, I'm surprised you think yours matches the entire UKs. I doubt that very much otherwise we would be doing it already.

i think if we instigated a law that said revenge is ok, then we'd be in a right mess. Mix that with the right to carry guns and I think people would be getting shot left, right and center. Then you would have the counter-revenges and all the innocent people getting caught in the cross fire. It would become like a clan warfare.

I think that would take us back to a chaotic period (much like Afganistan) where people go around shooting each other to settle little disputes. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for the death penalty, but if we let people exact their own vengence then there would be chaos. The most impartial method we have is a jury. Its not great, but better than letting people do what they want when blinded by rage.

5 lives have never been worth a bit of buggery. And it just sounds a bit of suspicious excuse to me. If this guy really, really wanted to kill the rapist, he would of got him if he could get close enough to be raped.

Yes the whole country is messed up - I'm really glad i don't live like they do. I don't think we can instill our values on them like in the old days - we have to follow too many human rights issue. If the goal is to prevent terrorism, we'd be much better just having anything to do with them, and blocking our ports. Then, even if terrorists are created, they wont get here to blow things up, and no-one would need to get killed.

Nice to see the Taliban supporters out in force.

It is clear that the far left has become intensely bitter waiting decades for their revolution that never came and out of that bitterness seeks a substitute for their aborted revolution in any opponent of the government, even if it is the Taliban.

>Well, i guess your opinions differ to mine. But, I'm surprised you think yours matches the entire UKs. I doubt that very much otherwise we would be doing it already.

Three Britons oppose this war for every Briton who supports it. In that respect I am in the majority. I'd prefer if you personally agreed that this is a lost cause.

>i think if we instigated a law that said revenge is ok, then we'd be in a right mess. Mix that with the right to carry guns and I think people would be getting shot left, right and center. Then you would have the counter-revenges and all the innocent people getting caught in the cross fire. It would become like a clan warfare.I think that would take us back to a chaotic period (much like Afganistan) where people go around shooting each other to settle little disputes.

Much like our current Afghanistan. We share that blame.

>Don't get me wrong - I'm all for the death penalty, but if we let people exact their own vengence then there would be chaos.

I oppose the death penalty, for uncompassionate reasons, but that is mostly irrelevant too.

>The most impartial method we have is a jury. Its not great, but better than letting people do what they want when blinded by rage.

So do you agree with me that Gulbuddin, the killer of these soldiers, should face a jury rather than summary execution by SAS soldiers blinded by vengence?

>5 lives have never been worth a bit of buggery. And it just sounds a bit of suspicious excuse to me. If this guy really, really wanted to kill the rapist, he would of got him if he could get close enough to be raped.

You speak like someone who has accepted being buggered in the past. I think most people who are buggered are unoncerned at the level of casualties when they revenge themself on their rapist.

>Yes the whole country is messed up - I'm really glad i don't live like they do. I don't think we can instill our values on them like in the old days - we have to follow too many human rights issue. If the goal is to prevent terrorism, we'd be much better just having anything to do with them, and blocking our ports. Then, even if terrorists are created, they wont get here to blow things up, and no-one would need to get killed.

If the only reason you think our troops should be brought home is to protect our ports, then fair enough, that is legitimate reasoning that I can agree with.

IM-UK have repeatedly reposted my personal details here to fascists and police informers.

That has destroyed more than one group and more than one action. Death to IM-UK IMCista informers, literally.

Same rules apply too. I am about to publish every communication I've had with the stasi IM-UK 'volunteers'. Cunts.