The threat of the BNP and how to fight it

The only poeple who think the BNP is a growing political threat are those who need them as a bogeyman for their own ends, this means on the Left anybody who wants some donations for something and on the Centre Right as a group to prove distraction from their policies.

The BNP has now political influence, power or broad support. They are as about likely to gain some as the SWP or Greens. There are bigger problems that need attention and energy.

Dare I say it, I think this needs to be spread far and wide. I will print these off for the anarchist conference next week -- or indeed your welcome to come to it Simon (see here www.conference09.org.uk)

Why are the BNP not fascist anyway? They combine elements of state capitalist ideology with racist ethnic nationalism, the glorification of militarism, and an environmental streak actually quite reminiscent of the NSDAP. The only respect I can see in which they aren't every bit as worthy of being included under the umbrella of fascism as Musollini and the Nazis is, they do make overtures about civil liberties and their erosion by New Labour. However, is this really enough to make them somehow "post-modern", or a novel movement? I don't think so. Fascist and Stalinists have always had the tendency to claim to be liberal and democratic, and decry their enemies as authoritarians.

I actually said that the BNP are not NAZI and that they are instead fascist albeit a more post modern fascist party who enphasise difference not supremacy, who admit jews to the party, who emphasise civil liberties, who make alliances with other ethnic minorities to oppose the muslim comunity ie the alliance with some sikhs like Rajinder singh in order to divide and rule. This is the BNP of today and their strategy today and comfronting it in the same way as the old NF will not work. That is not to say that physical comfrontation with the BNP is no longer the answer, indeed in the absence of a mass militant anti-fascist movement the BNP are returning to the streets albeit in the form of street stalls and leafleting although marching in the streets again cannot be ruled out if they reach critical mass. However as i have outlined in the original posts new strategies are needed, a brains and boot strategy not just a boot strategy with nazi stereotyping.

Simon the anti fascist

I would like to remind those supporters of Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems in their hasty condemnation of supporters of the BNP that THEY themselves have little to boast about, in particular New Labour.

Let's remember that it is Labour that has taken us into TWO illegal wars, based upon a deliberate LIE, and which has seen the deaths of 100,000 plus Iraqis, and many of our own service men and women. They have then tried to keep the whole sorry affair under wraps. These wars are costing us billions every year - that's OUR money.

It was Labour that promised us a referendum on the EU; another deliberate LIE - there was never any intention of allowing us the opportunity to withdraw from the EU superstate which currently makes over 70% of our laws.

It was Labour MPs that have been the most enthusiastic beneficiaries of the allowances system, ripping off the tax payer to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds for everything from plasma TVs to porn films.

It has been Labour that has flooded the country with immigrants, allowing them to undercut British workers for jobs, and seemingly throwing money at them whilst our pensioners die through lack of heating in winter. To get us to accept this we have been force-fed the 'Political Correctness' LIE - anyone objecting is a racist.

It is Labour that seeks, for political gain, to destroy our precious green belt by allowing tens of thousands of houses to be built on our last remnants of countryside.

It is Labour that seeks to poison our water with the highly toxic fluoride. Whether this is to appease the aluminium and fertiliser industries or whether it is to bring about our dumbing down through its effects on the central nervous system, is at present a moot point.

And it is Labour that is in the process of turning our country into the most surveyed police state in history through CCTV cameras on every street corner, vehicle number plate recognition technology, compulsory ID cards, the saving of innocent persons' DNA , and the recording of every website visited, every phone call made, and every text message sent. Truly frightening, yet mind boggling that anyone could vote for such criminals.

Oh yes, all of you who have voted Labour over the past twelve years have nothing to be proud of I assure you, whilst those who voted for the other of the big three parties who might currently be sitting high in their ivory towers should remember that all this has been brought in with barely a word of opposition.

... Antifa have been working a strategy of exploiting existing schisms and creating new ones in the BNP for a long time. Hitting them at their point of organisation and critiquing the policies of the existing order from a revolutionary pro working class stand point. All of this while rejecting Hope not Hate, Searchlight and UAF.

Try not to duplicate work that is already being done.

www.antifa.org.uk

> The BNP has now political influence, power or broad support. They are as about likely to gain some as the SWP or Greens. There are bigger problems that need attention and energy.

They're going to win seats in the European parliament, which will put them on the Euro $$$ gravy train providing them with more opportunities to spread their bile. Take your head out of that bucket and understand that these fuckers are a threat for all the reasons in Simon's post, then we can work towards defeating them.

I am aware of the work that Antifa do and i am aware of their reputation for giving the fascists a good kicking as well. I know that they understand the changing nature of the BNP unlike the last century left who dont. MY message is to the naive leftists and anarchists and anti racists in general who have to wake the fuck up and stop being in denial about the threat that hangs over us. Antifa from what i know do great work though to my knowledge they are more boots than brains. We need both to defeat these fascists. So my message to antifa is more power to you but we need more than boots.

Simon the anti fascist

Thanks for the list. Yes, i couldn't agree more and would affirm many other additions. But, personally, i can't help having a gut feeling that if the BNP were in power then an equally incompetent list would occur if not 100 times bigger.

I can give you an example.
I recently got the BNP leaflet through the door. I should say I freelance in media and part of this is advising and producing material for new marketing and sales campaigns for small businesses. So I immediately (and i do mean instanteously) spotted 3 of the istockphoto pictures. I use istockphoto almost every week and, being probably one of the most popular low-end stock libraries on the internet, many other people do too. It made me laugh when i read in the paper that the images were spotted by some researcher using some clever software blah blah. What complete poppycock - an utter lie.

So to my point....
If i can succesfully write fake testimonials, create lies and sell stuff - pretty successfully i might say - how does the BNP expect me or anyone else to vote for them if they can't even create one bullet proof leaflet that is plastered in the media as lies?

Surely, even a child would know that their leaflet would be under intense scrunity? The images were just dragged from the most popular repository. The copy was just drummed up from imagination and the two were put together. Job done....... "They'll fall for that."

I can spot it a mile off because i've seen it before. It is basically LAZINESS. They couldn't be bothered knuckling down and implementing an exceptional campaign. They thought slap-dash would be sufficient. That speaks volumes to me.

I'm terrible at writing copy. My first drafts suffer from poor grammar and the spelling is aweful. But i recognise this and overcome it through diligent reworking of the material. If they can't be bothered QAing their material, then of course it is going to fail. What did they expect?

I havn't even got round to digging at their policies yet - I actually don't have to. They've failed the job interview because they are too lazy and incompetent to complete what is essentially a fairly run-of-the-mill simple task. If they can't do this right, then its a reasonable assumption to make that they can't do more complex tasks.

Some of us realised the things you were saying quite some time ago. If you live in Sheffield you are likely to get one of these through your letterbox ->  http://yorks-afed.org/2009/05/a-vote-for-the-bnp-is-not-a-protest-vote-its-a-vote-for-fascism/

Also, yeah the BNP may not be Hitlerite, but they clearly identify with white supremacist ideology. This represents a core section of his support base in the party and he does have to try and reach compromise between moderates in the party (and his supposedly moderate programme) and the hardcore Racialists. This is a split that we can and should exploit.

There is not much to disagree with here, agreed some did go out but just where are those anarchist now? The ACF and it,s utter failings to interact work with the working class is as much of the problem here, is not time we made the middle class history?

Yes, we should definitely steer clear of the very dodgy agenda of the Searchlight / state nexus.

Surely the BNP isn't the biggest fascist party ever on this island? The BUF (Oswald Mosley's mob) in the '30s seems to have been substantially bigger and much more influential -until they were humiliated in Cable Street and began to wane from then on. Obviously, there was a major factor then which doesn't exist now -Hitler and the German nazi party, not to mention Mussolini. People who hadn't really understood the nature of this new "modernist" political phenomenon began to see through it and understand it for what it was, helped by the insight and agitation of more perceptive folk who'd seen things clearly from the outset.

Despite the absence of Hitler / Mussolini equivalents (at least in states with major clout) I can't help thinking the struggle against fascism in the '30s may have more useful lessons for us now than we can draw from opposing the NF from the '70s onwards. There are chilling similarities in the wider economic and political contexts and fascism is beginning to recover something of the deceptive "dawn of a new age" crap which gained so much mileage back then.

So what insights can I offer from the struggle against fascism in the '30s which might help us now?
Err...none, really. Don't know enough about it. Oh yeah, I've read all about Cable Street, Olympia, the role of the Daily Mail, the "Black House" etc.etc., but this doesn't tell us how the situation was turned round here (which it was), how the fascists were discredited in local communities and people persuaded their "new dawn" was a false one which could only lead to shit. It's the micro-history which may be most relevant for us now.

Does anyone have a better grasp on this than I do? How much was due to the triumph of our forebears' boots over the police and fascists in Cable Street? Did the Spanish civil war have an influence? (I doubt it.) Was there an element of non-fascist nationalism, a feeling that all this stuff might have some snazzy uniforms and stirring tunes, but was essentially "unbritish"? Was the popularity of socialism crucial or incidental? How were the BUF marginalised in the streets, shops, pubs and cinemas of the time?

Historians or much older stroppy gits than me (if still with us) may have a lot to offer right now.

But they are minor points. Were they to be made a little differently, I would agree. There are multiple truthes about the "modern" BNP. One truth being that they are not actually that modern.

They adopt post-modernity as clothing. But they fail to see that Post Modernity makes them a tiny minority of no more significance than the next. The underlying ideological commitment to the elevation of power ensures they wield power as the most significant political tool they have.

The finances of the BNP have long interested me. Frequently, Antifa have no interest in the counting and recounting of finances. Why would they? The practical consequences of Fascism are felt in communities. Accountancy is just a little bit abstract. But it is a significant part of how the modern BNP operates. As a Political Party, some of the most interesting accounting surrounds the efforts to keep party funding out of the public eye. It is not the most interesting of pursuits for many Antifascists.

If the BNP get a single seat in the European elections it will not result in British withdrawal from Europe or a sudden "national identity flowering". It will result in more community tension, violence and so on. The same strategy of tension that Griffin and the Far Right admire in Italian Politics will become commonplace.

There is still no widely accepted explanation of the Bologna Outrage.

Lafarge, of UKIP, is claiming that he has used two million in expenses to finance the subversion of the European Union. More accurately, it is suggested that his expenses have been used to finance his party. If the BNP get a single seat, there can be no doubt that some finance will find its way to the most criminal elements of society.

It is fine to disagree with Antifascists who say, "lets give them a good kicking". It is fine to disagree with the tea party and discussion tendency. These are all activities that will cease to be possible unless there is common ground.

Simon is, unfortunately, right. Brains and Brawn all have a place. Even the BNP recognise they must recruit people with intelligence and thugs with obedience.

"Antifa from what i know do great work though to my knowledge they are more boots than brains. We need both to defeat these fascists. So my message to antifa is more power to you but we need more than boots"

Please don't patronise us Simon. Very little of the work we do is publicised for security reasons. The stuff with 'boots' is only a small part of it, and the fact we are prepared to use physical confrontation does not mean we are stupid and need other comrades to do our thinking for us.

I never said that you were stupid or meant to imply that you are stupid and i never meant to patronise. My understanding was that the Antifa approach to dealing with fascists was primarily physical. You imply that because of security reasons you cannot reveal what other work you are doing and that's fair enough. If you say that you are doing the kind of stuff that i have suggested then great and i apologise for my ignorance and lack of research . My message though is to the wider anti fascist milieu who unlike you and me and some others do not understand this new BNP and what is needed to confront it and are in utter denial about it. I hope Antifa would agree with me on this

I found your post informative and thought provoking. I am astonished by people I know who say they will vote BNP I have hopefully persuaded them not to!, my parents even recieved a poster in the mail which they binned. I think that people are disgusted with mainstream politicians and think superficially that the BNP are benign although deep down I think that everyone knows that if they were ever to gain power the lives of all of us who want equality, diversity and freedom will be very unpleasant and indeed at great risk.

People laughed at Hitler and ignored him we should never underestimate what the BNP could do. I have seen them wheedle around farmers and then say they are for animal rights, they want to be all things to everyone and the fact that they have allies who are Jews and people from mixed marraiges. I once met a BNP member who was married to a Phillipino lady and whose best mate was also Phillipino others and I debated with him saying that the BNP would potentially kill his wife, his friend and himself if they ever realised their goals, he knew this but felt that no other political party met his needs!. This is terrifying especially with a corrupt parliament and a whole host of new restrictions on our liberty.

I am not exactly sure what the BNP would do if they won an election, I am not sure what their policies are. But I do know that they have sugar coated some very unpleasant intentions and would appreciate more information on what goals they have now. The fact that they are no longer stupid enough to be blatantly thuggish is more of a reason to show concern.

Aren't you all missing the fact that Labour are pretty much the same as the BNP.

In both cases the membership is largely drawn from slum council estates, they boast that 'common sense' is all thats needed to fix the problems of the world, once in power, both bring about massive corruption, they have a liking for abstract political thesis that bear no resemblence to reality, they look after their own, they claim that anybody that doesn't support them must be a terrorist. They have a liking for populist policy-making. They both fly flags, they are both severely hierarchichal. They both have a pathological incapacity to 'see' the truth and they are both movements based on deeply anti-social prejudices.

They both have a liking for killing as many brown people as possible.

The BNP and Labour are the same. Neither could exist without the other.

Why are you all campaigning for these two obnoxious political diktat parties? This is not what indymedia is for...is it?

If you want to spread BNP propaganda go to the Labour website and do it there. If you want to spread Labour propaganda, go to the BNP website and spread it there.

If you want some hints and tips about how to spread propaganda post anonymously and pretend you know what your talking about, that usually does it.

I think this is a good discussion It sparks of a lot of thoughts here is just one of them. I'd like to post more if the discussion goes on and is still readable on IMC any way we could sort of repost it to keep the discussion going?

Simon, I do think there is point it calling the BNP Nazi, just because they are prepared to use temporary allies or change their rhetoric (they even claim to not be racists) does not get away from their core ideology which is in many ways classic National Socialism.

Hitler's Nazis were astute enough to make temporary allies of people of non Aryan “races” if they found it politically useful, Hirohito the emperor of Japan or Mohammad Amin al-Husayni the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem being examples of this.

I recognise that the approach of the UAF and others to keep shouting NAZI! Can seem a little tired,but I don't think it should been dismissed out of hand just yet.

We have collective memories of Nazis, everyone knows they are the “bad guys”, every one knows about the second world war and the holocaust and how “we” beat them. One of Nick Griffin's master-strokes was to realise that in Britain this collective memory would forever prevent the “common man” from supporting people who fetishised the “bad guys” in movies.

In many countries fascists and their allies have attempted to deny the holocaust so as to muddy the water as to their particular brand of fascism's relationship to Auswitch. By Griffin claiming that they are not even fascist-Nazi-racists he sidesteps having to get into denial about these atrocities, they were simply done by other people not at all like him. BNP and UKIP use of Churchill imagery is specifically designed to associate them with the “good guys” in WWII iconography. Every one has relatives that fought against Nazis that emotional reflex is strong.

Therefore I think that there is a still lot to be gained by continuing to describe Nazis as Nazis.

The rotten stinking putrid carcass that calls itself Labour is finished in this country. In my experience i have never known such hatred and contempt for this piece of garbage. It has abandoned the working class in this country (although it never cared for it much before new labour.) It has especially abandoned the white working class and that Mr no no is the point. The white working class in former northern mining and steel towns and in council ghettos have been shit on and abused enough by new labour and the fascists are making headway in those areas and are getting support. It is this that has me worried Mr no no, its not the SLP or respect which is getting a hearing there, indeed most of the left will not go into these areas but the BNP are growing in these areas where 10 20 30 years ago they would have been driven off. It is this reason why i am focusing on the BNP and not the stinking racist carcass called labour.

Simon the anti fascist

The Fascism of the BNP is a symptom of what has destroyed Labour. Yes, defeat the BNP. That is the start. Then get proper working class representation in parliament. If that means deselecting every MP (not just Labour MPs) then that is the way to do it. Too much of the last decade has been consumed by "security" and "war on terror" and such utter bollocks that people have forgotten who is in charge.

The BNP exploit the fact that nobody knows who is in charge to offer the kindly iron fist of Postmodern Fascism. When the people in charge actually make their voices known they get assaulted, kettled or even killed. Time to stop taking orders and start giving them again.

Apologies for the unsolicited mail - this is a one-off, (promise!)

FROM: underclassrising.net to: The Rest of the World underclassrising.net, a paramilitary band of terrorists and Chaos theory strategists, claim responsibility for this and all future demonstrations.

We represent numerous disenfranchised causes and voices, some in contradiction with each other. underclassrising.net will continue the struggle by any means necessary, until all of our demands have been met or we are all eliminated.

Throughout history radicals have called for justice and equality, only to be beaten and bloodied by the lackeys of the state, imprisoned or bought by the ruling class. For twenty years this message has rung out accross the airwaves of the world a voice in a wilderness of static alone distorted, misunderstood. Time and again we have heard the wisdom of the mad fools raving the truth and rallied to their flags, awaiting the one last glorious push. We have waited in vain.

They cannot save us. As the politicians of the world speak in platitudes that tell us nothing of the state of affairs or the personal agendas so the rebels and anarchists we have gazed admiringly at have told us everything and changed nothing. With several notable exceptions they have all abused their positions at the first available opportunity.

They rolled over and begged when His Masters Voice called. They are icons, no less product than the vinyl and the tape that ties them, worse they are virtually traitors to a man. Traitors. There will be no time to synchronise watches when the moment comes. There can be many shots to start the race when we begin to strike back: What we are saying is that revolutions do not begin they climax.

Are you waiting to be told when to strike back ? Why ? Do it now. Tin pot rebels have kept us waiting for decades too long. You cannot be led to freedom but it is only one small step to take it. You do not need permission from the government, us or anyone else. There will be no New Age dawning come 2000 AD.

No amount of incense or crystals will change the crystallisation of what has come to be called the New World Order. When the shout goes out many people will be disappointed to realise that Arthur, Jesus and David Koresh have not made it back to the party in time. Faith is the biggest sting of them all. Give it up. Doubt is far more reassuring. underclassrising.net is not limited to those you will see operating at our demonstrations and actions.

Like an iceberg most of it exists below the surface. It is an affiliation of like minded individuals with many concerns in common. It stretches across the borders and ideologies with equal ease. We all share the same P.A.I.N. It hurts us all in different places but P.A.I.N like all suffering is good for the spirit. That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Time is growing short. Our enemies and treacherous allies have sold most hopes of our liberation to the highest bidder.

Never before have we known such dark days for the Underground. It has been systematically looted and sabotaged to the paint of virtual collapse. What remains is obsessed with in-fighting and single issue agendas. This is no way to run a war. The country that once rallied to the strains of Anarchy in the UK now nods happily to Gina G and holds their lighters aloft to all-boy dance troupes.

We are sadly depleted and surrounded on both sides. However as all good tacticians will know an enemy is at their most dangerous when cornered. There will be no surrender. Youth culture has thrown up many movements that have outlasted youth itself, but all have shown themselves to be ultimately bankrupt of anything other than an eye for fashion. underclassrising.net is not about fashion. Let it be heard for the last time. Oasis have put the second bullet into John Lennon.

Maybe he deserved them both. Liam and Noel deserve no less. Rock is dead. Punk is dead. Goth is dead. Grebo is dead. Metal is dead. Crusty is dead. Techno, Trance, House, Acid, Jungle and Gabba are dead. Britpop was always dead. Romo was still born.

The P.A.I.N. however continues unabated. The P.A.I.N. is ever present life long and felt by us all. Our members are everywhere and nowhere, we are armed and desperate. Do not attempt to contact us, we will contact you with our list of demands at the appropriate time. The War Council. WHAT YOU CAN DO underclassrising.net will pursue all means towards the achievement of its ultimate goals, legal and illegal. P.A.I.N intend to put forward candidates in all forthcoming elections as endorsed by the War Council.

All covert activities will continue unabated. If you would like to stand as a candidate please forward an application in writing to the Minister of Intelligence at the War Council HQ which is everywhere and nowhere and whose address can be found at the end of this article. Include all relevant personal information, your deposit and details of where you intend to stand. If you do not have the deposit perhaps you could raise it by holding a bring-and-buy sale or robbing a sub Post Office or something.
Alternatively try lobbying your local Politician with the P.A.I.N agenda. We advise wrapping the agenda around a large house brick and delivering it through the front window. We have also found that lobbying with semtex is particulary effective. Perhaps you could infiltrate one of the existing political parties and covertly affect their policies. Perhaps we would then visit you to influence your kneecaps. Or perhaps, most useful of all, you could stay at home, put your feet up, turn on the TV and sit and drool over babes in Neighbours.

You won I actually change anything, but at least you 'll be out of our way when the fighting spills out onto the streets.

And WE will know you 're SHEEP.........................................................................................................

Just to clarify, here is what is said about physical confrontation in the Antifa England founding statement:

PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION

Fascism is a violent ideology. Throughout history, fascists have used violence against those who oppose them. Antifa is a continuation of the antifascist tradition of confronting fascism physically when it is necessary. Physical confrontation is only one of our tactics though, we do not aim to fetishise it as one tactic above all others, nor will we allow a hierarchy to develop based on the kudos of street-fighting. If an individual member feels unable to engage on this level they are no less worthy as an anti-fascist than any other member of the group, however those with a moral problem regarding this issue should be advised that this is not the group for them.


Antifa groups have been busy over the past weeks leafleting and fly-posting against the BNP.