London anti-scientology protest 12.07.08

Only the Scientologists or the very ignorant would defend scientology at this point.

There is a good reason why these cute college age kids are protesting the mafia-like organization that is scientology and you didnt even mention it in your comment.

Yes, people are entitled to freedom of religion. That much I would hope to be obvious. However, freedom of belief does not equal freedom of action. Cults such as Scientology prey on the vulnerable, tear apart families, and drive their victims to the point of suicide.

And yes, it is true that other organisations have done bad things. I fail to see, however, why this should make it somehow wrong to attempt to stop one of them.

"It seems the masks are necessary as there have been allegations of Scientologists harrassing demonstrators after previous events."

No, the masks have been there from day one: because of the long history of the churh persuing its *official policy* of harassment of critics:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)

"May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed"

The first commentor is grossly misinformed. Scientology is *not* a recognised religion in the UK. Anonymous support the right of everyone to choose their own religion, to change their religion, or to choose to have none at all.

Anonymous objects to an organisation whose official policy is to seperate families, harass and attempt to "destroy" critics, suppress freedom of speech, have child laborours, prison camps, a dedicated secreet intelligence agency, and who lie about what they are doing. That's NOT a "stress test", or a "personality test", and the e-meter does *nothing* that they claim it does.

Show me another organisation which does those things, and I'll turn up to demo against them and try to make the public aware. Scientology tries to hide behind the word "religion" precisely so that people who are ill-informed (such as the original poster) will try to defend them.

Educate yourself, for goodness sake, before you speak on a subject. it's only polite.

Anon seems to me to be a bunch of young poorly educated loose canons. Shouting out their hatred in a cult like fashion and trying to grow their ranks by making themselves appear rational by pointing out the irrationality of others. Religion is a personal choice and still a freedom in some places. Not a bastion of logic and rationality. Anon is a tool of the establishment of anti religious bigots spreading the kind of fear and hatred we have all seen before and fought to rid ourselves of. Lets not support this small group and it will continue to fade away.

"The Free Zone (or independent Scientologists or Scientology Freezone) comprises a variety of groups and individuals who practice Scientology-like beliefs and techniques independently of the Church of Scientology (CoS). Such practitioners range from those who closely adhere to the original teachings of Scientology's founder L. Ron Hubbard, to those who have so far adapted their practices to be almost unrecognizable as Scientology. The term Free Zone was originally only used by a single organization, but the term is now commonly applied to all non-CoS Scientologists, although many dispute the application of the term to themselves. However, the group whose name became adopted as a generic term for independent Scientology was not the first independent Scientologist group; the California Association of Dianetic Auditors, the oldest breakaway group still in existence, claims a founding date of December 1950, predating the Church of Scientology itself."

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)


Anonymous supports Freezoners. We support beliefs of those who follow Dianetics.

We object to the criminal Sea Org, the OSA, the use of Training Routines to extort money from new recruits, the forced labor and harsh conditions in the Rehabilitation Project Force, the abusive litigation of the Religious Technology Center, and the profit-sharing schemes that force staff to aggressively recruit.

It is time to reform the church of Scientology for the benefit of its parishioners. Dissolve the corrupt leadership before they squander all of the assets willfully donated to them by their followers.

I find it really funny that Scientology uses the freedom of religion argument to attempt to silence folk, whilst at the same time proclaiming the 'Freezoners' (those who hold Scientologist beliefs but choose not to belong to the offical 'Church') as liars and heretics.

I'd like to once again reiterate - Anonymous are not protesting against the beliefs of Scientologists, we are protesting the sinister, corrupt organisation behind it. I don't give a toss about their beliefs, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. What does concern me is the tearing apart of families as a result of the Church's 'Disconnection' policy, their continued harrassment of critics, the suspicious deaths of members, the use of child labour, pregnant women aboard the Scientology cruise ship 'Freewinds' being forced to have abortions...

Notice how the Church of Scientology doesn't actually attempt to address any of the points raised by its critics, it merely resorts to personal attacks and, when all else fails, falls back on the 'freedom of religion' card.

I love the way that "John", right after a post explaining what anon are protesting about, decided to ignore all the points and act like a bigot.

Anonymous have nothing against anyone's religion. Anonymous are against the huge breaches of human rights and othe rpoor treatment of the church towards outsides *and its own members*.

John calls Anonymous "poorly educted". But clearly he hasn't bothered to do any research on this subject before posting his ill-informed views.

And without a hint of irony.

Are you a scientologist yourself? Just checking to see what your primary bias is. For the record I am not a member of Anonymous, although I support their core aims. Their position that Scientology is a dangerous cult is entirely correct, and if you disagree with that, you'd better supply some evidence. Anonymous have plenty in their favour - just check on the internet.

It's all very well to set out a number of name-calling attacks on Anonymous, but it would help your argument if you can support them. What makes you think that they are poorly educated? Would they recognise Scientology as a safe religion rather than a dangerous cult if they were well educated, in your view? As to the suggestion that slogans used on the demo are "cult-like" - can you demonstrate that there is a powerful core to Anonymous that acts like a cult? From my understanding, Anonymous are a loose collective rather like Indymedia - I would imagine there is some central planning but to suggest that protesters are all in some way indoctrinated doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Allow me to suggest you are confused on the "freedom of religion" issue. Most posters here - and most people attending Anonymous demos I'd wager - support freedom of religion. That means allowing Scientology members to quit Scientology if they want to. Given that there is substantial history of the church disallowing this, and isolating members from their friends and support groups who would be able to give them the empowerment to quit, I'd say Scientology was opposed to freedom of religion. On that basis, perhaps you ought to join the demo!

Lastly I can't let the "tool of the establishment" jibe go without comment. This is perhaps the most ludicrous charge in your post and it discredits you entirely. In fact the establishment is sometimes in favour of religion, as it allows politicians (especially on the right) to point to its decline as the reason for the decline of society. Most of us on the left however believe that society is declining because of the privatisation of public services and infrastructure, the neoliberal agenda and the "Washington consensus", and the corporatisation of the media. Perhaps you could help us out by explaining how protesting at a cult makes the protester a "tool of the establishment"?

I am sure a few respondents here would be interested in whether you can defend your original post.

I thinkg that Anons is the real "Cult" here.
Scientology is very simple.
1- Ron Hubbard wrote books about the spirit and the mind.
2- People read these books and found them useful.
3- Organizations were build where courses based on these books could be held and where counseling based on these materials could he delivered.
4- As Scientology deals on how to improve the spiritual being, it is a religion.
5- The whole structure of the church of Scientology works to get more and more people to avail themselves of the knowledge and the spiritual gains one can find by reading books, following courses or receiving counseling (auditing).
6- Any individual has the right to follow the religion that he choses.
7- Anons are people who think that they have the right to impede others to follow a religion they have chosen. Anons do know have this right and they never will.
8- Anons try to spread lies on Scientology the same way that Nazi spread lies on Jewes before the 2nd World War.
9- If one wants to know what is Scientology he should just read books and speak with scientologists, both staff and public, and ask them what gains they have had with Scientology.
After that he will find that scientologist follow Scientology because they like it and he will also find that Scientology staff are sincere people who are on staff not fo "money" but because they like to help.
10- Anons, shame on you!


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In response to frank g

5a- Isn't it a bad thing that the top of that church structure was convicted, imprisoned, and fined for infiltrating the IRS?  http://xenu.net/archive/go/orgchart.htm &  http://xenu.net/archive/go/
5b- Why does the RTC stamp out other groups from spreading Dianetics Auditing techniques? What about patent infringement claims on the FZ Emeters? You patent your tools for salvation? As a safety valve? Ok, then why prohibit the resale of authorized e-meters on eBay?

6a- ORLY? (see 5b, 7a)

7a- We support the Freezone Scientologists. The CoS does not. I support those who want to seek out information on Scientology and Dianetics. The CoS inhibits its followers from reading information critical to the CoS and Scientology. I have studied world religions and note the very important field in Christian theology: apologetics. The CoS furthers no study of arguments critical to it, and it has no apologetics discipline. Who prohibits the true study of religion?

8a- Coincidentally there was a great program I watched last night on Heinrich Himmler - the founder of the SS and the most enthusiastic perpetrator of the Holocaust. Himmler's anti-Semitic feelings originated from his personal insecurities as a boy (being a sickly weakling, and idolizing the military - then after joining the military the old soldiers despised the Weimar Republic and who associated a great deal of anti-Semitism with the Weimar Republic). He found personal redemption in the eyes of these old soldiers and emulated their anti-Semitic behavior. Hitler utilized these tendencies of the military to create a national fervor to replace the Weimar Republic with a strong nationalist government, and the anti-Semitism came with it.

Similarly L. Ron Hubbard faced his own personal flaws as a youth. He sought psychological treatment for his emotional instability and did not find a "quick fix" in what little (perhaps primitive) treatment he may have received. He was also indoctrinated with military fervor and following his WW2 service in the navy he sought to supersede his previous failed treatments. When the FDA attempted to verify his "treatments" they concluded they were non-scientific and unverifiable.

Hubbard took this as a personal attack from his previous enemies - the psychologists who could not help him. He did whatever he could to overcome the criticism of the FDA and put on the guise of religion. He formed the structure and methodology of the CoS to emulate his perceived military success. His anti-psychologist sentiments were further developed and fused with the machinations of the organization that followed.

All of the FACTS outlined above (not my historical interpretation) can be found at xenu.net and related sites.

9a- by all means feel free to enter an Org or Mission. BUT DO NOT AGREE TO ANY ADDITIONAL COURSEWORK FOLLOWING A "STARING SESSION" AKA TRAINING ROUTINE. Maybe leave your wallet at home or have a good friend around to talk you down and stop you from spending too much.

10a- NO U

He seems to be as accurate when it comes to scientology as he is with drug advice.


1- Ron Hubbard wrote books about the spirit and the mind.

Hubbard got drunk with a couple of other sci-fi authors (Philip K Dick & Arthur C Clarke if I remember rightly) and had a conversation about starting your own religion because the others were all rubbish. The other two sobered up and got on with writing some great books, whereas Hubbard decided that he stood a far better chance as a religious leader than he did as an author.


2- People read these books and found them useful.

People find all kinds of nonsense useful if you couch it in psuedoscience terms and ensure that your claims are so vague that they can be made to apply to anything c.f. astrology.


3- Organizations were build where courses based on these books could be held and where counseling based on these materials could he delivered.

Power structures were created to ensure that control remained centralised and heirachical. Centres were set-up where new recruits could be indoctrinated to the point where they felt that there was nowhere that they could actually go if they left so they would all stay and do as they were told.


4- As Scientology deals on how to improve the spiritual being, it is a religion.

A cult is just what the large congregation calls the small congregation. The reason Scientology is not given the same status as other religions in the UK is not because the courts say it's a cult, it's because it has been judged to be a for-profit organisation and therefore cannot have charitable status.


5- The whole structure of the church of Scientology works to get more and more people to avail themselves of the knowledge and the spiritual gains one can find by reading books, following courses or receiving counseling (auditing).

The whole structure of the church of Scientology works to get more and more money into their bank accounts. If it was truly about trying to get this knowledge out to people, then they wouldn't charge such extortionate amounts for "training" and they wouldn't threaten people with copyright lawyers for spreading this information.


6- Any individual has the right to follow the religion that he choses.

Unless they are a member of the Sea Org who signs their life away to the church in a contract that stipulates a billion years of service. Or any other member of CoS that wants to leave.


7- Anons are people who think that they have the right to impede others to follow a religion they have chosen. Anons do know have this right and they never will.

Standing outside protesting does not impede people from following a religion. Does not CoS impede those whose religious beliefs require them to stand up and protest against unjust organisations?


8- Anons try to spread lies on Scientology the same way that Nazi spread lies on Jewes before the 2nd World War.

Which lies? Tell us, specifically what anonymous has claimed about CoS that is untrue - verifiably untrue, not just subjective opinion.


9- If one wants to know what is Scientology he should just read books and speak with scientologists, both staff and public, and ask them what gains they have had with Scientology.
After that he will find that scientologist follow Scientology because they like it and he will also find that Scientology staff are sincere people who are on staff not fo "money" but because they like to help.

Yes that's right, ask the members of the cult whether they think the cult is good or not. There's an objective viewpoint if ever I heard one. Don't bother with that whole "independent third party" nonsense or the testimonies of those who have been deep within CoS and got out, just listen to the PR droids whose sole job is to get you to join.


10- Anons, shame on you!

What's the matter, did you run out of bullshit at no. 9? Surely you can do better than that.




Hail Xenu!

 http://sfist.com/2008/07/14/photos_anonymous_smutty_scientology.php

This should go along way in clarifying my earlier points.

Why would I want to answer to any "charges" leveled by people in masks, taunting me with nasty language. I have never faced the KKK but I get the idea.

Yup we're all "tone 1.1" here in Anonymous. Homosexual, sex-positive, and perverted. What a shocker! Just proves we're the puppets of psychiatrists eh?

Scientology believes that indulging in these "sacks of meat" is one of the worst offenses of morality.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_sex

Evidence of this indulgence is suppressed and covered-up by the all-too-human teenagers forced into labor in the Sea Org and the RPF. Good thing they have these little philosophically contradictory jaunts about "admiration particles" to confuse the children under their care. Fetuses are so sensitive and AWARE of their surroundings that you should not have sex or even masturbate while pregnant, but the CoS's Sea Org forces pregnant members to have abortions? I wonder what kind of an engram being aborted produces.

SUCH HYPOCRISY!!! The historical sexual abuse of the Catholic church pales in comparison! Just Google Scientology sexual abuse and take a guess at what comes up.


Anonymous represents the reality of the human condition! We do not abhor the natural condition of our bodies and we are not shamed by these acts or accusations. Scientology pretends that they are innocent and we are guilty, but try posting something illegal on 4chan and you get PERMANENTLY BANNED.


How does that relate to the KKK again? That sure explains a lot about your argument john! It's too bad this is seriously off topic because it shows us a lot about the motivations of the CoS agents posting here.