Camden Lab - Letter from Frank Dobson & Govt. deal : Lab in "return" for flats

After initial reservations (and not caring that much about the vivisection issue) I am now 100% in agreement that it is utterly, totally crazy to put this lab in a high-density inner-city residential area such as Somers Town.
I'll do what I can to lend support to the anti-lab campaign

As a Somers Town resident and I don't support this article - I don't want the Research thing either but I believe in telling the TRUTH and this article does not.

It makes wide reaching assumptions and is designed to be alarmist. The people proposing it have already stated that there will not be killer viruses, every paper that reported it was going to posted a new article within 2 days indicating that this was not the case and that this would only be for research into medical illnesses like cancer, malaria, the flu etc

If you want my support be honest, lay out the FACTS. I think Frank Dobson is right this will be a balance between what we want and what the country needs, if we can get both then thats good for all. As a nurse I see people die every day from what they say they want to try and find cures for. If we can get extra housing as well as cures and this is the only place that this thing can go and its safe - and I have yet to be convincied - I would support it. I would rather see thousands of people live longer and survive our worst diseaeses that have 200 extra houses but if we can get those house at the Temperance Hospital site, 1/2 mile away then we all could be winners.

"I think Frank Dobson is right this will be a balance between what we want and what the country needs."

Another vivisection lab run on deliberately no hope lines of research, guaranteed to ensure the proliferation of pharmaceutical drug industry profits through a guaranteed state of no cure, is most definitely not what the country needs; something clearly evident by the one century of vivisectionist 'medical research' that has only seen human diseases increase massively, rather than lessen.

Of course, if the animal rights people had done their job and told you that, instead of trudging around deserted city streets dressed as rabbits, you would have known that.

Our campaign members and supporters of the campaign are not all animal rights activists. Some of them are in fact for animal testing but are utterly against the lab.

The lab is in part a move by the NIMR from their current site in Mill Hill which is a level 4 facility. Level three facilities contain diseases such as anthrax and rabies. Level 4 contain even deadlier pathogens. If you want the TRUTH about the lab perhaps you might want to contact Andrew Dismore MP for Hendon {where the Mill Hill NIMR lab is currently based} and ask him why he is against the move. He has done his homework on this and isn't part of a "campaign".
Perhaps you should ask the scientists at this NIMR facility in Mill hill and ask them why they too are against the move on safety and science grounds? These scientists are so against the move they breached their contracts and spoke to the press on the matter. {Paul Keilthy - Camden New Journal}.

Human error, accidents and attacks do happen and the fact is, the Chernobyl tragedy happened, the Foot and Mouth disease leak from Pirbright happened...etc.
With the lab being so close to an International transport link any such accident, attack or leak would mean that pathogens could spread around the world rapidly. Anyone wishing to deliberatley cause such havoc will know this and therefore this will in fact lead to the estate being patrolled by armed police.

Those of us without a financial / career based vested interest in the lab project are more likely to tell the truth regarding this. The only people who are claiming that ALL of us who are against the lab are "alarmist liars" are the MRC consortium and those whose money and careers are wrapped up in it.

Hannah, if you do indeed live in Somers Town and have children, just imagine what would happen in the event of a tragedy and you find yourself in a scenario where the area is quarantined while others are evacuated, and in this event you are perhaps separated from your children? This could indeed happen and is not alarmist but a very real possibility given what happened with the Foot and Mouth disease leak from Pirbright in surrey.

As for "saving lives"... building the lab in an area that is overcrowded and lacking in facilities is more likely to contribute to ill health rather than combat it. The life expectancy for males in somers Town is 11 years less than for males living in nearby Hampstead as a result of these poor and overcrowded living conditions which contribute to disease such as TB {in our climate} etc. But then if you are a nurse living locally you should know that....
One of our campaigners is also {genuinely} a nurse and is completley against the lab being built in a built up residential, business district close to local, national and international transport terminals. This lady has been researching this for some time and can be contacted on 07767471111, ask for Chrissy.

If the lab project is "all good" why has there been so much secrecy and lack of consultation around it?
{See our letter, Camden New Journal}.

The planning brief for the site calls for 50% housing. The MRC consortium has admitted that they will be building no homes in defiance of the planning brief. Do you think such people can be trusted?

only prob there is; can we take the assurances of both govt and quango (i.e. MRC) as gospel. History would strongly suggest we can't. That's why I think the lab is better in a remote(ish) rural location, and the space currently earmarked for the lab should be devoted 100% to social housing

Research done in animal abuse labs, kills not only animals but people as well. Hannah, with due respect. I'm afraid you don't have a clue about the reality of vivisection. I'd stick with social housing, forget about a new animal torture center.

The Camden New Journal wrote an editorial comment against the lab very recently, following the widespread news, quoted local campaigners and devoted half a page to London against Camden Danger Lab.
If you are "local" as you claim you will know this, won't you?

The lab will in fact be containing deadly pathogens such as Bird Flu which is transmittable to humans in a transmutable form. I just hope that if the lab goes ahead that this particular nasty never escapes!!

Not only that, I know for a FACT that hundreds of people wrote to the newspapers who were against the lab following the reports. The newspapers printed NONE of them, including letters from MP's and Camden / Islington Councillors.
It is well known that the media very often do what the govt. and their cohort financial backers tell them when it comes to the pharmaceuticls industry. ....In fact whenever the newspaper print ANYTHING against the vivisection industry or pharmaceuticals there will, in EVERY case, two days later be an article back pedalling on the their previous articles....it happens every, single time.

Hannah...um excuse me for asking this but you claim to be "nurse"....but you sound like an MRC PR rep...Which is it?

Good thinking there Lindsay and others. If someone disagrees with you they absolutely MUST be being paid by those you disagree with. You guys are so blinkered it's a joke.

I am a nurse, one of the Nurse 2000 scheme ones - the ones who did nursing as a degree.
I dont work for the MRC but i do no they dont work with drug companys
I am a single mother and I do live in Somers Town and I no that people dont support this scheme but equally there are those that do.

I also have a duaghter with Leukimea and a father who died of prostate cancer.
If the MRC sticks to their word and do what they say they will I will support it - I see the illness they want to research every single day I suggest you go to any hospital and tell the patients there that you do not believe in supporting research to find cures to their sufferring.
I do believe the MRC more than I will ever believe the reports in newspapers. Papers, including the CNJ which I get every week, only ever tell half a story and what they want to tell.
And finally....... I have the absolute right to say what I think about this project. Just cos you dont like it and dont like someone countering your alarmist view point is not my problem. As far as I remember we live in a decomracy

Hello Hanna

You say:
‘As a nurse I see people die every day from what they say they want to try and find cures for’

Has it never occurred to you that the type of ‘research’ you are supporting has had huge resources of time and money put into it in the last 50 years certainly and we are at a situation now where the number of people diagnosed with cancer has reached an all time high?

Are you more interested in holding on to the endless promise of cures for ever increasing diseases from the pharmacutical industry than trying to find out what may have caused two close family members to develop cancer?

The vivisection allopathic based drug industry has not even found a cure for the common cold and yet they have managed to convince you that all they need is more time, more resources in addition to the endless amounts of both that they have already had. Perhaps you dont live in Camden. Perhaps you live in Never Never Land!

No, I don't think "everyone who disagrees is a paid schill" I'm just aware that anyone who is against the MRC lab is accused of being "alarmist" or of being a "liar"....which is their stance and their only "argument" against anyone who disagrees with them. They also do monitor and add to these forum pages.

As for what's happening with AR {and you can all get me for this. if you must} ...close friends of mine know that I have serious reservations about the what is going on in the "AR movement" at the moment. While I have the utmost respect and admiration for people like Heather Nicholson who I consider a friend and miss loads....there are other aspects of AR at the moment that I find worrying to say the least.

And as for those people who try to convince me that there are no infiltrators anywhere in the movement...
If you consider that we are considered by the UK govt. and US FBI to be the so called "number 1 domestic terror threat next to Al Quaida" and that the police, MI5, Interpol have us all under observation / surveillance along with private investigators sent in by HLS, Oxford University, Sequani, Harrods, etc and possibly TV journalists, writers, people from security firms working on behalf of any or all of these, you might excuse my occasional paranoia and suspicion...especially when I catch people going through my stuff, lurking about outside my flat etc....but hey I'm just "mad" innit?
Paranoid and justified. Possibly, execpt that I'm doing nothing illegal so you are wasting your time!

If you want to research some scientific, viable and credible alternatives to animal testing take a look at Europeans For Medical Progress website www.curedisease.net

The entire pharmaceutical industry at the moment is nothing but a multi billion dollar con. Most of it "researches" only western "diseases" {brought on by eating meat and dairy, and inhaling and ingesteing pollutants that have been tested as "safe" on animals...} in order to make maximum profits while denying people in the so called developing world medicines. These industries also test on people without papers here in the UK...for the production of medicines denied to them on an NHS that they are not allowed to access...

The UCL {University college London} are part of the consortium behind the Camden lab plans and do in fact work with drug companies. On campus are Novartis and Eisai....{amongst others} who are customers of the notorious Huntingdon Life Sciences....
HLS workers were exposed by Channel Four TV falsifying test data, breaking the Good Laboratory Practice, drinking alcohol and taking drugs while experimenting on animals, punching four month old beagle pups in the face and playing sex games with dogs. HLS had their license revoked and were prosecuted....
As Novartis and Eisai are part of the UCl, HLS will have a connection with and input into the Camden Lab.

I think you are addressing this to the wrong person, it wasn't me who said that "everyone who disagrees is a paid schill".

Whilst here I see you are saying that: "If you want to research some scientific, viable and credible alternatives to animal testing take a look at Europeans For Medical Progress"

When are people going to realise 'there ARE NO alternatives' to animal testing? Only vivisectors, their drug industry paymasters, and the direcors of these so-called 'funds for alternatives' (Hadwen Trust, FRAME, Humane Research Trust, Dowding Fund, etc) need peopleto believe that we need to find other ways of research before vivisection can end. The 'alternatives' already exists - true science based on clinical research of the human being.

Until this very first hurdle is overcome there is little chance for the 'movement' to progress.

THE DECEPTION OF "ALTERNATIVES" TO ANIMAL EXPERIMENTS

 http://www.vivisectionfraud.com/deception.html

ALTERNATIVE METHODS - TO WHAT?

 http://www.vivisectionfraud.com/alternativestowhat.html

Europeans For Medical Progress do not promote the idea of ‘alternatives’ as far as I can see from their website. They even have a page explaining why the 3Rs will never bring about an end to vivisection. Please look at their website Chris if you have any doubts that they may be the same as Hadwen Trust.

You are correct to say that EMP don't promote 'alternatives' - I was merely answering the statement addressed, incorrectly, to me in the London Against Camden Danger Lab post above, which did address the issue of alternatives.

However, I will also say that about 2 or 3 years ago attending a public meeting in Oxford, EMP had a stall there on which there were Dr Hadwen Trust leaflets. I pointed out to the stall holder that promoting an organisation that advocates having to first find alternatives before vivisection can be abolished (The Hadwen Trust MUST hold this opinion, otherwise the purpose of its existence becomes meaningless) is completely at odds with what an informed, genuine AV organisation should be doing if it seriously wants vivisection to end.

I followed this up by email with EMP's Kathy Archibald who basically told me they can have whatever leaflets they want on their stalls....I henceforth cancelled my standing order to them, not wanting to help spread in any way the notion that vivisection works.

Incidentally, I noticed a few months later a leaflet on their stall at the Bristol Vegan Festival stating firmly that they did NOT believe that finding 'alternatives' is a necessary first step before vivisection be abolished...make of it what you will.

Regards,

u done a degree did you? i do no that most people who've done a degree can at least read & spell. especailly helpful if you are a nurse and have to fill out patient forms, get the correct drugs out etc....

i do no that sum people are dyslexic and mean no disrespect to them. But Hannah i do no that you seem to be full of shit.

I know who you are. Your other articles are amusing to say the least....esp the bits where you say "i do no that" and " i do no this" and " i done a degree in a new nusre scheme"....hmmm well, i do no that if you was nusre that i wood hope you never write up my notes or go the medicine cabinet....not that i think slagging off peeple who cant' spell is funny, its' just that your'e so full of shit.

I think your the shit!

I might disagree with Hannah but at least she has a view and at least she is expressing it

Dear Liz

The ‘Me’ who came on this forum and said

‘I think your the shit! ’

is not ‘Me’ who made two earlier posts. I don’t indulge in mindless name calling.

Regards

er....so does Colin Blakemore and he's a cunt too.

Hannah is an NIMR / MRC / UCL / CRUK employee....dontchya know....oops. But hey they're all entitled to their twisted views and to express them.

We've changed our address.

London Against Camden Danger Lab
BM 8735
London
WC1N3XX


Many thanks to Brendan at London Animal Rights for letting us share theirs but we now have our own to avoid confusion.