Universal's Flight 93 'Hijacked' By Truth Seekers

If it's on prisonplanet it must be true. Don't forget to "Find out the truth about 9/11: Subscribe to Prison Planet.tv and watch all of Alex Jones' films! "

$$$

At least Universal have some for(u)m of right to reply. Why doesn't prisonplanet? Scared that open discussion of the drivel it publishes will damage its sales?

"NRA Member" and "Journalist" and "Architect" say it's all lies and that the official story is true then of course we should all do our duty to Queen and Country and believe them and obey...

Do some reading, make your own mind up....

 http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=theme&themeId=18

I suggest you take a look at this thread, which does rather put the boot into the CTers' claims:

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/04/338892.html

""NRA Member" and "Journalist" and "Architect" say it's all lies and that the official story is true then of course we should all do our duty to Queen and Country and believe them and obey..."

Um, no we don't actually. All we are saying is that places like prisonplanet rense whatreallyhappened and globalresearch are full of shit.

Criticising conspiracy loons isn't any kind of default endorsement of anything.

"If it's on prisonplanet it must ..."

That's Disinformation, Plant, as you know.

Either you can address the issue or you can't.
I haven't seen you do it thus far, and I'm not holding my breath.
(Bring on the long-winded Ad Hominem continuation of this vein of thought ...)

"At least Universal have some for(u)m of right to reply."

No, they DID, just like Popular Mechanics after they ran the CIA piece, until too many questions appeared which revealed how empty their positions were, how dishonest and avoidant.

That's the whole subject here ...

"All we are saying is that places like ..."

Yeah, you've been saying that.

The only problem is that you haven't backed up those empty charges with anything.

You haven't made a case. Just like the War Criminals and LIARS you're here defending.

We know they can't be trusted, yet you seem to suggest that we should take their Conspiracy Theory - upon which they've attempted to excuse the indefensible - simply on faith. You say we can't possibly accuse them of such crimes, when it's known that ALL of these men have lied and slaughtered innocent people, in order to fatten their wallets, measure their psychopathic yardstick of "power", and satisfy their violent, supremacist ideology.

Sorry, 'til you can actually come here with something, you might as well keep it to yourself.

(But it is interesting that you feel compelled to keep going. No, nothing to see here!)

Who's the disinformationist?

 http://www.universalpictures.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

If you bothered to look it would have spared you the embarrassment. I don't see any censorship here... in fact, the brats are being allowed to piss in the sandpit more than they would in most other venues.

I may go back frequently as you don't post often enough and it makes hilarious reading.

Talking of "dishonest and avoidant" (you'll find the word is 'evasive' but 10/10 for using terminology you don't understand "journo"- we can now rule out psychology as your minor): why doesn't prisonplanet have any right to reply


Calling you an idiot & a liar wouldn't be ad hominen it'd be gounded in fact.

"You haven't made a case. Just like the War Criminals and LIARS you're here defending."

Tell me what my "case" is and show me "defending" these war criminals. Idiot! Liar!

Like I said, if it's on prisonplanet it must be true...

____

 http://www.mentalhealth.com/icd/p22-pe08.html

The planet is becoming a nuthouse blah blah blah

Fans of conspiracy situation comedy will appreciate this:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alex_Jones_%28radio%29

If Jordon is so sure of his facts, how come he usually stays clear of substative discussions such as this one:

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/04/338892.html?c=on#c147027

One or two complaints about spooks and disinformation is typical.

Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam

Jordan generally buggers off quite sharpish these days. All you have to do is ask him to substantiate any outrageous nonsense he will invariably spout, e.g. his journailstic career, his anti-semitism, his lack of material evidence, his lack of subject matter expertise.

Here's a few of my favourite Jordan silent retreats: the non-false flag in Basra, the non-faked CCTVand video confession RE: 7/7, Bird Flu being the product of Porton Down, accusing Jewish journalists of being Zionist plants... and on it goes.

His kneejerk acceptance of anything on prisonplanet or rense as gospel is truly daunting much in the same way as WWI soldiers going "over the top" and into Gatlin Gun fire is mindboggling.

Have a butchers at that universal site. It's like someone has coded an AI Jordan Bot. A myriad of posts from people with all the same insults and accusations. I'm wondering if they have a 9/11 Loon manual, perhaps a training camp or templates for cutting & pasting non-responses. Perhaps all of the above.

They'll inevitably close the place down as a waste of bandwidth expenditure- probably when things quieten down.

Meanwhile, I still live in the vain hope that prisonplanet will allow a comments section.. so we can see how long that lasts.

At last we have a face to the name:

 http://smartlabs.lewiston.k12.id.us/jenifer/StrombergStuart/

You'll note his link to "friends" 404s.

It's intersting that you'd go to all that trouble to smear me and fake an identity for me ... since I'm so off-base ... I notice that you still can't address the topic at hand.

"If it's on prisonplanet it must ..."

That's Disinformation, Plant, as you know.

Either you can address the issue or you can't.
I haven't seen you do it thus far, and I'm not holding my breath.
(Bring on the long-winded Ad Hominem continuation of this vein of thought ...)

"At least Universal have some for(u)m of right to reply."

No, they DID, just like Popular Mechanics after they ran the CIA piece, until too many questions appeared which revealed how empty their positions were, how dishonest and avoidant.

That's the whole subject here ...

"All we are saying is that places like ..."

Yeah, you've been saying that.

The only problem is that you haven't backed up those empty charges with anything.

You haven't made a case. Just like the War Criminals and LIARS you're here defending.

We know they can't be trusted, yet you seem to suggest that we should take their Conspiracy Theory - upon which they've attempted to excuse the indefensible - simply on faith. You say we can't possibly accuse them of such crimes, when it's known that ALL of these men have lied and slaughtered innocent people, in order to fatten their wallets, measure their psychopathic yardstick of "power", and satisfy their violent, supremacist ideology.

Sorry, 'til you can actually come here with something, you might as well keep it to yourself.

(But it is interesting that you feel compelled to keep going. No, nothing to see here!)

Jordan, the Universal forum is still up & running and totally unmoderated (for the time being). There's everything on there from hardcore gay ass porn to discussion of presidential assasination and the usual accusations of spookdom.

It's pretty obvious that a large number of the loons have arrived via prisonplanet.Look at the cntent and see the sorry face of what "9/11 Truth" is: a bunch of kids and thugs with nothing but insults and conspiracy loon links to offer. You proud of the chimps' tea party that's happening?

Myself and others have given "your" case many a good point-by-point thrashing. Every post here virtually has been addressed. Your personal default when presented with the fact you have no hard evidence is to call people names.

You bring nothing new, you get nothing new.

Reposting a completely erroneous comment proves nothing- unless your intentions are some sort of ironic critique of moronic CTers???

So why does prisonplanet have no right to reply?

Jordie, mate

Ths simple fact is that you don't answer specific rebuttals or requests for information. The thermite one is a classiv example; just in case you've somehow missed it, here (once again) is the link:

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/04/338892.html

I don't see you cropping up on other forums where there are people who can post technical challenges to you assertions either:

 http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=37585

I can only assume that your theory has a problem with proper analysis of evidence.


For ease of reference, I'm going to repeat a point made there:

Let's suppose that, amidst a particularly nasty divorce, an abusive husband's car jumps a crash barrier and he is killed in the ensuing conflagration. Witnesses describe him as drunk and lossing control of the vehicle; there are skid marks on the road. His wife has insured his life for a considerable amount.

Imagine that every competent and experienced accident investigator reached a consensus that he lost control of the vehicle, there was evidence of braking, that automotive engineers concurred, and that the police at the scene also had reached the same conclusion.

Now imagine after the fact that a group of self-proclaimed physicists, academics, and long-time conspiracy theorists -- none of whom had any relevant expertise in accident investigation and none of whom had ever investigated an automotive crash -- claimed that they were not satisfied that there was evidence of braking.

There is no evidence that brakes have been tampered with, however the Ct'ers claim that this is because the wife has developed a way of severing brake cables which is undetectable - and leaves no obvious trace after the explosion. They claim that experts who examined the car were either incompetent, or in the pay of the wife.

Let's say that they then invented their own untried, ad hoc methods for detecting braking and tried to impose that upon the problem. Let's say they held "seminars" and press conferences decrying the "sloppy" or "unscientific" methods of the original investigators. Let's say they demanded that qualified experts take their claims at face value, even though they are founded upon conjecture, ignorance, and fallacy; and let's say they demanded detailed refutations of all those claims.

And let's suppose that, when the experts point out the holes in these ad-hoc methods and half-baked theories, they are accused of being either (a) idiots or (b) in the pay of the wife. All of them.

Perhaps a little silly, but THIS is the same underlying thesis yourself and the other CTers employ in nearly all your arguments. They have failed, and continue to fail, to provide compelling evidence of their case.

It's a really strange this 9/11 Truth. It's become like some sort of club or cult. That Universal forum is a great place to see it in action. Reams and reams of loon sites and everyone chanting nigh on the same mantras.

If anyone questions the veracity of a CTer's claims they will cite some past theory or even present theory as proof, rather than demonstrating how the "evidence" is conclsive purely from empircal study of the data itself.

They are indeed starting off from the premise that it was in inside job and trying to make the presumption fitthe data. There is also a tendency to cite JFK conspiracy a lot too. With the Illuminati making regular appearances. Some NRA/militia sentiments too.

There is no effort made to test alternative scenarios. No brainstorming to find other possible conclusions- which any honest researcher would feel obliged to do. "The governement did it!" is always the answer. Not the government allowed it to happen; the government was taken by surprise and twisted events to suit a case for war... no other scenario is allowed to be mooted. Fanatical zealotry I believe is the term.

It's pretty interesting to observe from within a culture that so readily sneers at the superstitions of the Dark Ages and other cultures. Strangely enough there is a high prevelance of same kind of anti-semitism we saw n the Middle Ages.

But then again, US culture did blossom from strange religous sects and has always had a history of self-righteous extremist groups.

I hope Universal leave the site up untouched, so people can see what sort of nutcases these people are. I'm betting however they leave it up for as long as the publicity generates interest in the film.

"If it's on prisonplanet it must ..."

That's Disinformation, Plant, as you know.

Either you can address the issue or you can't.
I haven't seen you do it thus far, and I'm not holding my breath.
(Bring on the long-winded Ad Hominem continuation of this vein of thought ...)

"At least Universal have some for(u)m of right to reply."

No, they DID, just like Popular Mechanics after they ran the CIA piece, until too many questions appeared which revealed how empty their positions were, how dishonest and avoidant.

That's the whole subject here ...

"All we are saying is that places like ..."

Yeah, you've been saying that.

The only problem is that you haven't backed up those empty charges with anything.

You haven't made a case. Just like the War Criminals and LIARS you're here defending.

We know they can't be trusted, yet you seem to suggest that we should take their Conspiracy Theory - upon which they've attempted to excuse the indefensible - simply on faith. You say we can't possibly accuse them of such crimes, when it's known that ALL of these men have lied and slaughtered innocent people, in order to fatten their wallets, measure their psychopathic yardstick of "power", and satisfy their violent, supremacist ideology.

Sorry, 'til you can actually come here with something, you might as well keep it to yourself.

(But it is interesting that you feel compelled to keep going. No, nothing to see here!)

Jordan not only now stoops to reposting his innacurate comment but admits he has no counterargument.

The sad face of 9/11 Truth.

Despite all this talk of conspiracy theory skeptics making ad hominem attacks without addressing any of the issues raised, I have yet to see a single response to the arguments presented against the alleged use of thermite in the 9/11 attacks, which were presented in some detail on another thread (taken from another thread highlighted by Architect).

I have also spent some time reading through the posts made re: the Flight 93 film. Once again we see awkward real evidence (ie the phone calls made by the passengers) dismissed as lies or fabrication, yet, conversely, the flimsiest bit of 'evidence' supporting a cover-up is accepted without question (the fact that some of these conspiracy theories contradict each other never seems to bother some people). How can people seriously maintain that all those phone calls were faked? Kindly do not come back with the 'ah but they used cell-phones, and you cannot use cell-phones at such a height, so therefore the calls must be false argument' as a) it is by no means an accepted fact that cell-phones cannot be used at such a height and b) even if they did not get through, passengers would have just used the phones they had built into the arm rest of each passenger seat (an established technology prior to 2001). Did the CIA/Mossad have reams of proffessional impersonators at hand to make them - impersonators so well briefed they talked about domestic details known only to those closest to them without any of them being rumbled. Surely, anyone can see this is just a ludicrous suggestion.

And, has often been said, if the collapse of the WTC buildings is so 'strange' please also explain why no professional experts have yet to come forward to question the official view. Once again you have to start elaborating your theory to start embracing literally thousands of people. Are they all being coerced/paid off by the state then? What about all the doctoral research students within these subjects - they all been paid off too? It is, frankly, delusional.

Number of structural engineers who posit bombs in the towers: 0
Number of engineering classes taken by the guys who are absolutely sure there were bombs in the towers: 0
Number of scientific polls showing a significant number of Americans believe 9/11 was an inside job: 0
Number of architects who posit bombs in the towers: 0
Number of explosions registered by seismologists when the towers fell: 0
Number of materials specialists who posit bombs in the towers: 0
Number of engineering conferences held to discuss bombs in the towers: 0
Number of engineering reports discussing bombs in the towers: 0
Number of seismologists who posit bombs in the towers: 0
Number of demolition experts who posit bombs in the towers: 0
Number of documents revealing the secret plan: 0
Number of NORAD people who said they stood down on 9/11: 0
Number of NORAD people who said they were confused by drills on 9/11: 0
Number of defense experts who say NORAD standing down was inexplicable: 0
Number of eye witnesses in the Pentagon who believe that a missile hit the building on 9/11: 0
Number of firemen at the scene who say there really were bombs in the buildings (i.e., not just saying it SOUNDED like bombs): 0
Number of commercial airline pilots who say the NORAD thing sounds fishy: 0
Number of journalists (mainstream or otherwise—but NOT wingnuts posing as journalists) who write seriously about 9/11 conspiracy theories: 0
Number of people who say they were actually involved in the plan: 0
Number of FBI agents, ex-agents, or whistle blowers who say 9/11 was an inside job (as opposed to mere incompetence): 0
Number of people who might know anything who have come forward (as opposed to people who wouldn't know anything—like a former German Defense Minister): 0
Number of clips of the buildings falling (used by conspiracists to bolster their theory) that have been authenticated by experts: 0
Number of items in the Northwoods document that were actually pulled off: 0
Number of intelligence specialists who think 9/11 was an inside job: 0
Number of historians who subscribe to the inside-job hypothesis: 0
Number of sane people who think Bush used his family friends to bring off 9/11: 0
Number of sane people who think international bankers financed a plan to close down Wall Street: 0
Number of sane people who think the most incompetent administration in galactic history pulled off the most complex subterfuge in history...fooling everyone except a few creepy guys who got on the web: 0
Number of follow-up domestic terror attacks after 9/11 (as confidently predicted by most inside-job theorists): 0

A child can tell you: the question of how a building fell down can be resolved ONLY by engineers. Not physicists, theologians, or guys who just think they’re the smartest guy in the world. It has to be engineers.

Absolutely NO ENGINEERS back up the conspiratorial fantasy about 9/11. On the contrary, they have utterly debunked any theories:

Where can I find engineering studies concerning the World Trade Center that refute the claims that it was demolished by bombs or “controlled demolition?”
 http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_execsum.pdf
 http://wtc.nist.gov/media/Structural_Fire_Response_and_Collapse_Analysis.pdf
 http://www.firehouse.com/news/2002/4/30_APwtc.html

Where can I find engineering studies that offer evidence that structural steel from the World Trade Center was collected for analysis?
 http://wtc.nist.gov/media/gallery.htm#recover
 http://wtc.nist.gov/media/gallery2.htm
 http://wtc.nist.gov/media/Structural_Fire_Response_and_Collapse_Analysis.pdf
 http://members.fortunecity.com/911/wtc/WTC_apndxD.htm

Where can I find evidence that refutes the claim that World Trade Center Building 7 was “pulled” down intentionally by some official order?
 http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Biederman/Biederman-0112.html

Where can I find engineering studies concerning the Pentagon that refute the claims that it was hit by a guided missile?
 http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/pentagon.php
 http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/phase1/
 http://www.asce.org/responds/

More information:
 http://architecture.about.com/library/weekly/aawtc-collapse.htm
 http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/wtc.php
 http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/structure.php
 http://enr.construction.com/news/buildings/archives/021104.asp
 http://web.mit.edu/civenv/wtc/
 http://www.icivilengineer.com/News/WTC/Fire.html
 http://www.asce.org/pdf/3-6-02wtc_testimony.pdf
 http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html
 http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc.php#why
 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/resources.html
 http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/
More links to real engineers refuting conspiracy theorists:

 http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html
 http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/latest/wtc.php
 http://space.com/scienceastronomy/generalscience/wtc_science_010919.html
 http://www.teachersdomain.org/6-8/sci/engin/systems/collapse/
 http://mcleon.tripod.com/WTC1.htm
 http://www.hera.org.nz/PDF Files/World Trade Centre.pdf

Give it up, conspiracy wonks. The experts have spoken--& they were not hired by the bad guys.

The WTC was not brought down by the most incompetent administration ever, in a tricky job that fooled everyone except a few megalomaniacal guys. International bankers did not contrive to close down Wall Street. There is not a secret takeover going on that only you can perceive.

If you “hate the government with all your heart,” you are a sick man. That’s probably why you resort to these delusional theories.

Get help. Hang around normal people once in a while. Pray for sanity.
Signature

Perry Logan
 http://perrylogan.org/

The fact remains that, regardless of what the busy little Plants do, they cannot provide us with the compelling, independently-originating and verifiable evidence which would exist - and be forthcoming - if the Conspiracy Theory upon which the criminal Bush/PNAC Regime have hoisted their long-planned program of Neo-Fascism and Military Aggression, were true.

If it did exist, these people would be holding it out for all the world to see, saying "See? We HAVE to go slaughter Arabs by the hundreds of thousands". They cannot produce this evidence, and this is what truly damns their case.

Anyone who starts with a conclusion can "refute" what their critics say, but only a true investigation - usually second-nature after such acts, but blocked by these criminal LIARS - can determine what really took place that horrific day, and who was to blame.

"The experts have spoken--& they were not hired by the bad guys."

"Experts". I love that term. Examine where they derive their project funding from, idiot.

"The WTC was not brought down by the most incompetent administration ever"

That's another thing which damns these killers. They never admit they are wrong, even when everyone knows it. For them to suddenyl claim incompetence points to something more serious. It's out of character, you see ...

"There is not a secret takeover going on that only you can perceive."

No, it's out in the open, and pretty much everyone can see it, since we're all presently feeling the rather nasty effects. And we're the lucky ones. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been slaughtered as a result.

"If you “hate the government with all your heart,” you are a sick man."

Not if that Government is a group of unelected Psychopaths (www.hare.com) and Ideological Extremists, who believe they have the right to impose Military Aggression abraod, and Neo-Fascism upon their own citizens.

That's just being a good, reasoned person.

Yet again all Jordan can offer in way of a rebuttal is insults and rumour.

Of course Alex Jones is far more trustworthy and qualified than any structural engineer or accident investigator.

The sad face of 9/11 Truth.

Is that the best you can do? A huge list of links supporting the accepted account, from real experts, and you claim simply that they're all in cahoots with the conspiracy?

Come on, provide real expert analysis which refutes it. Put up, or shut up.

How about addressing my points, just as I always do with your Disinfo?

The fact remains that, regardless of what the busy little Plants do, they cannot provide us with the compelling, independently-originating and verifiable evidence which would exist - and be forthcoming - if the Conspiracy Theory upon which the criminal Bush/PNAC Regime have hoisted their long-planned program of Neo-Fascism and Military Aggression, were true.

If it did exist, these people would be holding it out for all the world to see, saying "See? We HAVE to go slaughter Arabs by the hundreds of thousands". They cannot produce this evidence, and this is what truly damns their case.

Anyone who starts with a conclusion can "refute" what their critics say, but only a true investigation - usually second-nature after such acts, but blocked by these criminal LIARS - can determine what really took place that horrific day, and who was to blame.

"The experts have spoken--& they were not hired by the bad guys."

"Experts". I love that term. Examine where they derive their project funding from, idiot.

"The WTC was not brought down by the most incompetent administration ever"

That's another thing which damns these killers. They never admit they are wrong, even when everyone knows it. For them to suddenyl claim incompetence points to something more serious. It's out of character, you see ...

"There is not a secret takeover going on that only you can perceive."

No, it's out in the open, and pretty much everyone can see it, since we're all presently feeling the rather nasty effects. And we're the lucky ones. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been slaughtered as a result.

"If you “hate the government with all your heart,” you are a sick man."

Not if that Government is a group of unelected Psychopaths (www.hare.com) and Ideological Extremists, who believe they have the right to impose Military Aggression abraod, and Neo-Fascism upon their own citizens.

That's just being a good, reasoned person.

Looks like we've finally beaten Jordan the ZOG conspiracy troll into a corner. He is no longer able to offer anything but repeated posting of vaccuous assertions and obtuse insults.

Hurrah!

He doesn't have to add anything if you can't address a thing he said.

How about addressing my points, just as I always do with your Disinfo?

The fact remains that, regardless of what the busy little Plants do, they cannot provide us with the compelling, independently-originating and verifiable evidence which would exist - and be forthcoming - if the Conspiracy Theory upon which the criminal Bush/PNAC Regime have hoisted their long-planned program of Neo-Fascism and Military Aggression, were true.

If it did exist, these people would be holding it out for all the world to see, saying "See? We HAVE to go slaughter Arabs by the hundreds of thousands". They cannot produce this evidence, and this is what truly damns their case.

Anyone who starts with a conclusion can "refute" what their critics say, but only a true investigation - usually second-nature after such acts, but blocked by these criminal LIARS - can determine what really took place that horrific day, and who was to blame.

"The experts have spoken--& they were not hired by the bad guys."

"Experts". I love that term. Examine where they derive their project funding from, idiot.

"The WTC was not brought down by the most incompetent administration ever"

That's another thing which damns these killers. They never admit they are wrong, even when everyone knows it. For them to suddenyl claim incompetence points to something more serious. It's out of character, you see ...

"There is not a secret takeover going on that only you can perceive."

No, it's out in the open, and pretty much everyone can see it, since we're all presently feeling the rather nasty effects. And we're the lucky ones. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been slaughtered as a result.

"If you “hate the government with all your heart,” you are a sick man."

Not if that Government is a group of unelected Psychopaths (www.hare.com) and Ideological Extremists, who believe they have the right to impose Military Aggression abraod, and Neo-Fascism upon their own citizens.

That's just being a good, reasoned person.

Your side-stepping addressing the reams of professional rebuttal of your nutty hobby hardly constitutes making any points.

1. You like the vast majority CTers simply try to rubbish the character of anyone that presents you a case that can't respond to.

2. You have been presented with a whole host of relevent expert opinion that you are just ignoring like an ostrich.

3. You are the biggest disinformationist going. You have consistently failed to provide material evidence of the nutty claim that there is a direct link between PNAC, Israel & the events of 9/11... and any other event you can crowbar your scapegoats into.

3b. You try rather pathetically to infer that anyone who disagrees with 9/11 Truth is pro-Bush or a "Zionist". One does not naturally equate the other. I would assume this is a troll tactic as even someone with a pretty low IQ could see that.

4. A "true investigation" always starts with the examination of data and the testing of all possible models that can be extraoplated from the data. 9/11 Truth consisently approaches "investigation" arse-about-tit by starting with a conclusion and ascribing anyone who even dares suggesting testing alternative hypotheses as "spooks, plants, Bush lovers, liars and idiots"

Talking of liars. It has been demonstrated on a regular basis that you are actively a liar and that your slavish spamming of prisonplanet gibberish makes you a passive on too.

It really beggars belief that IndyMedia UK has stopped blocking the spamming of this garbage.

So how about you engage with the opinions of the engineers and stop prevaricating with empty insults and even more vaccuous rumours.

Or prove us wrong and provide us with REAL material evidence to support your anti-semetic pseudo-science?

Like I daid, "Dingdong the witch is dead!"

I believe that debunking conspiracy theories is one of the greatest socialservices rendered by skeptics. I remind people that Adolf Hitler convincedpeople to believe in and make a natural reaction to a claim of an evilconspiracy threatening Europe. Lately, my investigation of Dennis Lee's free energy machines is stymied only by the powerof his claim that a international multigenerational conspiracy is coveringup free energy. Also, both Fred Mitchell and I have been voices of reason withinmilitia discussion groups on the internet. so naturally, I was thrilled to beable to hear social psychologist, Evan Harrington speak on the psychology of conspiracy thinking in February of 1997.

Evan focused on what conspiracy beliefs do for the holder and what are predictorsfor believing in conspiracy theory. Carl Hoagland studied how to getAmerica behind the WW II war effort and examined how to get people to believethings. Apparently, high credibility sources will convince people quickly,but low credibility sources have a "sleeper effect" of more slowly changingpeoples beliefs. Once someone ascribes to a belief, they tend to forget if itoriginated from a low credibility source. Appeals to emotion, particularly evoking fearseem to be powerful ways to manipulate public thought. Hitler was a master ofthis. The most common dangerous conspiracy theories running amuck today are: " black helicopters will whisk free thinking Americans to newly built concentration camps" and "the actions at Waco were a deliberate effort to exterminate Christians". Evan pointed out that theories of "Cognitive Dissonance" explain much conspiracy belief.Apparently, if your attitudes and behaviors clash, than one will haveto change. In the case of belief of irrational - the stakes seem to rise.for example, if the conspiracy believer finds that others don't share thebelief - this creates a conflict. The belief can either be dropped or theother person can be viewed as a dupe of the powerful conspiracy

Evan used the example of flight 800 rumors on the internet which tend to build off each other. Repeated circular references can amplify thepower of rumors. Such rumors seem to breed best during periods of uncertaintyand work best when not personally relevant. A good example of mass hysteria wasgiven of a chewing gum in Egypt from Israel purported to cause helpless females tobe over come by primitive urges. We learned that there have been hundreds ofcases of mass psychogenic illness where waves of people parrot each othersbelief of having some strange symptom.

Another psychological force bolstering conspiracy thinking is " Social Identity Theory " where people groups tend to be enforcedby derogating other groups. Bigoted behavior in America is most prevalent among unsuccessful people predisposed to looking for others to blame for theirfailures. Evan showed tape of Nation of Islam Leader promising that largeUFO's would soon rain down destruction on white America. I was both amused and frightened by the claim. Evan identified the psychological trait of anomia (feeling of insecurity and that the world is going to hell ) hasbeen found very prominent among conspiracy thinkers.After WW II a study was done to find out what kind of people are most likelyto become oppressive (ie Nazis). The developed an "F" scale to try to measurelikelihood of becoming fascist. Newer researchers have been defining aspects of behavior associated with Authoritarianism such as aggression,conventionalism and submission to authoritarianism. The conventionalism attribute makes them embrace older establishedmores (ie tight biblical based Christianity) and see newer attitudes asa grave threat. At first you would expect an authoritarian person to backour own government - but these people tend to view our government as corrupt. More authoritarian peopletend to really lower the boom on people in simulated jury conditions. They also tend to be highly eroto-phobic - they tend to have extremely repressed views of sex. (reviewers note: two childhood friends of mine who love right wing extremist conspiracy theory are extremely sexually repressed) Conspiracy thinkers tend be Dichotomy Thinkers They tend to simply view all things as being either evil or good. They tend to be losers who feel part of the big picture by being one of the elect able to spot the conspiracy. The theory allows them to easily explain away misfortune. Authoritarian people are predisposed towardbelieving that one set of rules should be very strictly enforced. Conspiracybelievers have a much higher than usual tendency to be authoritarian70% of people believe that a conspiracy killed JFK. 64% of people feelpersonally victimized by conspiracy.

There has been studies of situational determinates of behavior:apparently, southern lynchings have gone up when cotton prices go down. It isusually people in lower economic strata who tend view other groups as evil.

Evan made a fascinating personal observation that almost none of the manyattempted assassinations have spawned conspiracy theories where as successfulassassinations and many natural deaths have been attributed to myriads ofconspiracy claims.

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Also interesting:

 http://www.csicop.org/si/9609/conspiracy.html

 http://www.thursdaysclassroom.com/15mar01/mcdade.html