Abu Graib Macht Frei???

Abu Graib is like Auschwitz? Oh, yeah. Except for the way the guards who mistreated prisoners at Abu Graib are being court-martialled, and the absence of gas chambers and crematoria and hundreds of thousands of people murdered it's almost spookily similar.

It would be nice if just once, one of the zionist trolls posting on this site could display a bit of human compassion for the suffering of others, especially for those not connected with the "little bit of local difficulty" with which they are all so pathologically obsessed. Or perhaps Israel considers Iraq to be another land without people ripe for the taking, so the trolls are starting on the dehumanisation of another section of the arab world in preparation for the creation of another "disputed territory".

Discuss or rant according to taste.

Nobody is suggesting that dozens of dead and tortured at Abu Ghraib is comparable in scale to the enormous numbers of dead and tortured at Auschwitz.

Where the comparison lies is in the same demonization of the "other" race; the reduction of the "other" to animals; the joy that the torturers and killers, male and female, took in their work; the clear lack of concern that their crimes were being photographed.

"What could be wrong with torturing and killing vermin? They're not innocent, they're not human beings accused of a crime. They're terrorists. They're responsible for 9/11. They're vermin. Rats. They'll destroy us. Wipe them out. Take pictures to show how well we did it."

Yes, today's camp guards were caught this time. The evidence can't be denied this time, without the deniers looking ridiculous. The US is in a different military position in this war to 1940s Germany, and communications technology has leaped forward.

But while the scale is different for this single prison, the crime is exactly the same.

None of the western leaders responsible for the tens of millions of innocents dead in Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Biafra, Dresden, Hiroshima, Guatemala, Honduras, Salvador, and so on, will ever be court-martialled. Kissinger will never go to his Spandau prison. He's still in great demand on the lecture circuit. John Negroponte's brilliant career abroad goes on. They make charming documentaries here in Britain about Alan Clarke, and build statues of "Bomber" Harris. And the architects of the latest micro-Auschwitzes- Rumsfeld, Bremer, Wolfowitz, Myers - will never face trial. They'll retire on full pensions with full honours, get rich in defense directorships, and continue to be honoured and feted by the blinkered pigs who elected them.

The similarity is there, as plain as day, if you choose not to ignore it.

> It would be nice if just once, one of the zionist trolls ... blah blah blah
In what way is this post or the comments following it connected to Zionism, except in your twisted, hateful mind?

> Or perhaps Israel considers Iraq to be another land without people ripe for the taking
In what way is this post or the comments following it connected to Israel, except in your twisted, hateful mind?

> so the trolls are starting on the dehumanisation of another section of the arab world
Following your ridiculous comments that are motivated by nothing more than old-fashioned hatred, it would be more accurate to say "So the trolls are starting on the dehumanisation of Jews, denying their inalienable right to live in peace in a state of their own."

> Discuss or rant according to taste.
As you wish, hatemonger.

Well that obviously touched a raw nerve.

Skyver Bill: How, by what possible convoluted twists of logic, do you deduce that I am a zionist troll (wrong) without human compassion for the sufferings of others (wrong) especially for those unconnected with the "little bit of local difficulty" with which "I am so pathologically obsessed" (Israel? wrong), and that I'm starting on the dehumanisation of another section of the arab world (wrong)? I really would love to know how you worked that out.

Spanner: "Nobody is suggesting that dozens of dead and tortured at Abu Ghraib is comparable in scale to the enormous numbers of dead and tortured at Auschwitz." In which case the author of the original post made an exceptionally bad choice of words. Out of all the things in the world he/she could have used, they chose Auschwitz.

Poetry isn't meant to be precise documentary mate, it's meant to be poetry. I think the choice of Auschwitz as analogy of de-humanisation of other races is perfect. This was all explained to you by "spanner" above, but you don't seem to have read past the first line of what he wrote.

Doc, if you aren't one of the run of the mill Zionist trolls that haunt the pages of most Indymedia sites I apologise, but your rather literal response to a piece of poetry pointed to you coming from this direction.

Tazaar, I don't hate Jews - I didn't even mention them in my post: I spoke of zionists, the largest group of whom are made up of American right wing "Christians", and Israelis, 20% of whom are Arab Muslims and Christians. As to anybody's inalienable right to live in peace, this does come with some quite onerous responsibilities. For example, I live in a diverse, multicultural area of my home city out of choice because I value the varitey that the coming together of people from different cultures has to offer. That does not mean that if I woke up one morning to find that members of any or all of these groups had broken into my home, in force, and were trying to force me and my family out that I would just sit back and applaud. I would fight, using any method and means available to me to get them out - not because I hated them, but beacause I would be defending MY inalienable right to live in peace.

Israel needs to learn that if it wishes to claim the rights everyone else expects to enjoy it must be prepared to be judged by the same standards as well. Until it does this it will continue to receive much justified criticism in these pages and in many others around the world.

What sort of silly person makes the connection between Abu Graib and the Shoah? Don't put forth such (self) righteous indignation without also decrying the horrific end that came to Nick Berg... a man guilty -only- of being American. No, the Abu Graib incidents are not acceptable, and they don't reflect the standing orders of the soldiers on the ground in Iraq. Time will show clearly that it was the actions of a few, not the majority. You in Europe can continue to lash out at the US for trying to make the world a better place if you choose. But while you lash out, remember who was there to save England, France and the other, peace-loving nations of Europe, on more than one occasion. Take a minute to count the American gravestones in European cemeteries... then be self-righteous. We in the States have a great and (I dare say) impressive history of trying to do the right thing, even if it means committing hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of American lives to the endeavor. The fact that Europeans have been foaming at the mouth about the Abu Graib photos but are virtually silent about Nick Berg's graphic, brutal murder, tells us in the states more than we needed to know about our so-called "friends" in Europe. We have no true friends there... accept perhaps the one far-sighted person in the region, who happens to also be the prime minister of Great Britain.
Disagree all you want. Time will prove Bush right (and Righteous).

What sort of silly person fails to make the connection between the dehumanisation at Abu Graib and the dehumanisation at Auschwitz? Did you bother to read any of the comments above before leaping forward to parade your ignorance?

Self-righteous yank idiots lecturing us for not appreciating US efforts to "make the world a better place" make me want to spew into the nearest bucket.

Take a minute to crack open a history book.
Learn about the US' "great and (I dare say) impressive history" of ignoring British and French pleas for help until two years into the war, after the Battle of Britain was won in 1941.
Learn about how US corporations like General Electric, General Motors, Ford and IBM traded actively and profitably with the Nazis, and played an essential role in building up the Nazis' technology and efficiency in the death camps.
Learn about how the Bush family fortune was built on trading with the Nazis.
Learn about how Prescott Bush and his collaborators played a central role in financing and arming Adolf Hitler for his takeover of Germany, and how US banks financed the buildup of Nazi war industries for the conquest of Europe.
Learn how they helped in the development of Nazi genocide theories and racial propaganda, with the slave labor and extermination camps as the result.

The fact that whining US hypocrites have been foaming at the mouth about the Nick Berg photos but are virtually silent about their barbaric and brutal murder of 10,000 Iraqi civilians with "freedom-loving" cluster bombs and "peace loving" Depleted Uranium shells, tells us in Europe more than we needed to know about our so-called "friends" in the USA.

 http://www.iraqbodycount.net/