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The Apache Killing Video

WRH | 19.01.2004 01:48 | Anti-militarism | World

No arrest, no charges, no trial.
The US Army as judge, jury and executioner.
Welcome to the New Democratic Iraq.

This video has caused a great deal of controversy. Originally shown on ABC TV, it was first shown as an object lesson as to what happens to Iraqi Insurgents who dare show weapons before US forces. However, as time goes on, doubt has begun to surface as to whether the people shown blown to pieces with the 30mm cannon on the Apache were really insurgents, or just harmless farmers.

This is what is known about the tape. It is from the thermographic camera system of an Apache attack helicopter. The image is of heat, not of light. The time of day appears to be midmorning, based on the time display seen on the heads-up display. Military time uses a 24 hour system, there is no "PM" in military clocks.

The vehicle at the far left of the video is a farm tractor, facing away. The engine is running as is evidenced by the hot vertical exhaust tupe and the glowing undercarriage seen in the thermal image. Attached to the rear of the tractor is a plough, and the dirt in the foreground shows clear furrows.

There is a longer version of the tape (which may not play on everyone's computers) that does show one individual taking a long object or objects from his car and taking it over to the vehicle at the far right. It is assumed by those who want to justify the shooting that this object is a missile launcher assembly being discarded. However, one cannot explain why someone who had just fired off an RPG at US troops would bother to put the used launcher into his car, only to them drive someplace else and then discard it. Nor does it make sense that the man would place a weapon over there it is likely to be run over by the tractor and plough, damaging both the weapon and the plough assembly as well. And, given that the man does not in any way point the object at the approaching helicopter, it is clear that at least he does not think it is a working weapon. Given that the object is actually longer than an RPG launcher assembly, three alternative explanations suggest themselves.

1. That the object is a bundle of long handled farm tools being taken over to where the farmers are working with the tractor.
2. That the object is a bundle of thin poles to be driven into the ground ahead of the tractor to give the tractor driver a visible guide to keep the furrows straight.
3. As suggested by a reader, that the object may be part of the plastic pipe irrigation system used in dry climate agriculture.

We can deduce several facts from the video.

From the perspective seen in the video, it is clear that the Apache helicopter is not being threatened. It is hovering, moving slowly forward, and not engaging in any evasive maneuvers which would suggest that the individuals on the ground have threatened the apache in any way.

From the body language of the individuals on the ground, it is clear that they themselves do not feel they are doing anything which should be of concern to a US helicopter hovering nearby. In other words, they do not act like the object thrown into the field near the tractor is anything the US helicopter would object to. No sooner has the man delivered the object to the tractor than he turns and walks back to the car. At no time does he (or anyone else) act like they are trying to escape the area until the Apache opens fire.

From The Geneva Convention 3-1: 1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria

The very FIRST person gunned down was the person who had been driving the tractor. This video records a war crime.

WRH
- Homepage: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

Additions

Whining Bullies

25.01.2004 09:19

"He who is in battle zone and is deemed hostile is usually fired upon until destroyed."

Wrong. The Geneva Convention says that civilians and the wounded can't be fired on. The tractor driver was probably a civilian, and the wounded guy on the ground was no threat to anyone. Incidents like this prove that the US only cares about honouring its commitments under international law when it stands to gain something from it right away.

This is just one more reason why the word of the White House is now considered to be worth shit by all their former allies. It will come back to bite the US, and probably soon.

Now these strutting little bullies are coming crying to the UN for help, since they see that there's no way in hell they can survive if the Shia majority join the fight, when they've only been fighting the Sunni minority up 'til now.
 http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040125/325/ekaf8.html

The Shia have some major scores to settle with the US, after they helped Saddam destroy the Shia uprising after the first Gulf war, since they figured keeping Saddam in power but weak was better than a Shia-controlled Iraq.

Yeah, the UN's not so "irrelevant" anymore now, is it. Fuck 'em. They're so fucking tough, let them sort it out themselves. Bailing out the US isn't worth the life of a single British soldier.


Ian


Differences

26.01.2004 20:43

Hello Carlos

Thank you for taking the time to respond to the comments on the Indymedia website regarding the Apache helicopter atrocity (I say atrocity as I’m sure that is how the families of the victims would refer to the deaths of their loved ones).

I do feel that my comments, in no way, can be attributed to a sweeping attack on the American people. They are in fact meant to be calming and reasonable, and I do not agree with some of the more hostile views expressed on the site. I do believe that the average citizen of the world is manipulated by the powers that be, and I’m sure that has been the case throughout history. I am trying to express the sense of hopelessness that is prevalent amongst most people with regard to international relationships between peoples and politics in general. The only answer that I can see is that human beings learn to accommodate each other’s differences, to share the wealth of the world more fairly, and that we each take responsibility for our own actions. This does not involve indiscriminate killing. It would be nice to think that terrorism is a monster that will disappear once slain – unfortunately the truth is that every death spawns a multitude of hate leading to a never ending cycle of suffering.

I do not pretend to be an expert on international affairs. I have been to Afghanistan, Israel, India and Nepal as an independent traveller. I have stayed amongst the people there, and I have felt a little of their suffering. I have also lived in Lockerbie, and understand some of the suffering caused to the people involved in the Pan Am disaster. I shared a house in Cornwall with a victim of the Bali bombings. I honestly don’t feel any hate towards those who carried out the attacks, only sorrow for the suffering they have caused. Sorrow that our leaders do not have the imagination to see that responding with yet more violence does not solve anything. Promoting the base human emotion of greed through violence will never lead to peace – it just can’t, and we have to work towards finding another way for the sake of future generations.

I am not nationalistic so I won’t enter into an argument as to the relative merits of various countries – borders aren’t there to protect us, they are there to contain us. In essence all peoples are the same, with the same needs and aspirations. Belittling people because they do not have the same opinions does not solve the problem. Blaming a collective psyche on the weather is not helpful and rather distasteful considering the gravity of the situation. I am an anti-establishmentarian.

You mention the sources of funding for the terrorists – all of the evidence points towards the various western governments being directly complicit in arming the worst despots in the world. I seem to recall a Col Oliver North (Rtd.) having much to do with both arms and narco dollars. Much of the IRA funding came from the USA. The British establishment trained Idi Amin and created Iraq. The list goes on.

Please, I fail to see any humour in your anecdotal quotation; it doesn’t prove anything, other than that the world is in the state it is in, because of such thinking. I would imagine that should I be placed in the situation you mention, I would attempt to restrain my assailant so that he could not attack me further.

I have caused, and felt, much pain as a result of my own past actions. Fortunately I am able to understand this and, as a result, to react in as positive a way as I am able. Violence is the easy option – standing up, admitting one’s made mistakes, and then taking the path that leads to the least suffering for everyone, is far harder.

Love and compassion to you

Steve Russell


-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos J Melendez [mailto: ranger6@bellsouth.net]
Sent: 26 January 2004 11:41
To:  sruss99@hotmail.com
Subject: Your comments on the Apache video

Good Morning Bloke.

A Yank here, Vietnam Vet and observer of history of war.

Read your comments and others on Indymedia UK. Inspiring? No. Motivation? This is the rationale of my mail, why your views are one sided?

Can we have a dialog in which your express your views, your life experience, your political beliefs, without ranting? Will you have a willingness to listen to another point of view? Can you react rationally without attacks on the US?

We in the United States, especially my generation, have always looked at the UK as our strongest ally. I have traveled to your country and when the sun was shining was most impressed with how friendly your countrymen are. I do understand the ugly side of your collective personality when you look at your weather which is predominantly overcast. It’s easy to understand not having a sunny viewpoint. So you can appreciate my wonderment when I read in the newspapers and watch TV reports of the UK anti-war dissidents.

What I will never understand is why the “anti-war” voice doesn’t speak to the leaders of international terrorism and ask them politely to stop the killing. For example, if you are a staunch believer in your anti-US beliefs, why not ask the Leaders of International Terrorism whey they resort to killing unarmed civilians to the same degree you do regarding this Apache crew? Why isn’t there dissent on terrorists in North Korea, Indonesian, Philippines, Syria, Iran, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Africa, Italy, France, Greece, South America and you pick the place. Why isn’t there objection to the narco dollars used to support international terrorism? Why isn’t there outrage on the sources of funding and munitions to the terrorists? Why are you not protesting against the international terrorists who would like nothing better than to blow a dirty bomb in London and kill innocent civilians?

I just don’t understand why you don’t have a balanced and equally disgusted attitude against the terrorists? Your site seems to be anti-establishment?

With my comments above as a premise, I ask you are you tolerant of international terrorism and believe you should not go after them before they get you? Do you really believe that it is wise and prudent to not find them out and destroy them before they destroy you? Do you really believe that the time for outrage will be when suicide bombers start killing innocent UK civilians in Savile Row, Carnaby Street, Piccadilly Circus, Leicester Square, Buckingham Palace, 10 Downing Street, or wherever?

Here’s an anecdote that is intended to have a humorous effect with the reader. I look forward to your response.

Carlos J Melendez
Major U.S. Army (retired)
Paradise (aka sunny south Florida)

Subject: How to deal with idiots....

What to do if you happen upon a peace rally by stupid naive hemp-shirt-wearing college idiots, to teach them why force is sometimes needed:

1) Approach dumb rich ignorant student talking about "peace" and saying there should be, "no retaliation."

2) Engage in brief conversation, ask if military force is appropriate.

3) When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"

4) Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence."

5) When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.

6) When he gets back up to up to punch you, point out that it would be a mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would, "be awful and he should not cause more violence."

7) Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence.

8) Punch him in the face again, harder this time. Repeat steps 5 through 8 until they understand that sometimes it is necessary to retaliate.

Steve
mail e-mail: sruss99@hotmail.com


Wow...

26.01.2004 21:45

So people honestly think this is a warcrime. Look at the video people. That long cylindrical opject is glowing on an infrared camera, which means there is a large degree of heat coming from it. I'm pretty sure irrigation pipes aren't self heating. What's, more, the guy who wrote this seems to know the in's and outs of the Russian RPG-7, the most common RPG system, when he claims the objec tis longer than an RPG. As someone else mentions, the RPG-7 is reloadable, as are most RPG/LAW systems. Even if it is to long to be an RPG-7, it could still be an SA-7, which is basically a Russian version of our Stinger. Hell, it could even be a Stinger. Fact is, these guys are out in a field, in the dark, meeting for no real reason, and hauling around a heated cylindrical object... let me guess, it was just elephant poop from the zoo now...

Akula


Play with fire and you will get burnt

26.09.2004 03:40

These guys had a weapon on a battlefield. The apache had been following the small truck for a long time. They knew the person in it was a bad guy.
As for the US being the bad guy, you are living in a dream world. In the fight for freedom people die.

The US troops are dying for people they are trying to free. People they don’t even know. Imagine giving your life for someone you don’t know. And there the bad guys?

I would love to see what would happen to the rest of the world if the US said fuck you too the world. I would give it 10 years. Indonesia would invade Australia. China would take over Asia and Europe would be invaded by Russia. India and Pakistan would nuke the whole Middle East. South America would be the best place to run.

America keeps this world together, sheds it children’s bloods for the world and all you people do is shit on them.

I know America is not the best and they do fuck up but given the options I will take the US any day of the week.


Ben


Comments

Display the following 274 comments

  1. Cowardly Bastards — Scapegoat
  2. Vicious murdering bastards — Afinkawan
  3. USA, Defender of Freedom and Democracy — Ian
  4. Stunning US ignorance — Ian
  5. God Help The USA — TOD
  6. Certainly. — Ian
  7. Bundles of tools and pipes don't glow on infra red — Dave
  8. Judge, Jury and Executioner — Mike
  9. Shooting the wounded — Tom
  10. The wounded guy... — Alessandro Sojack
  11. US Marines love to shoot the wounded — Bill Parkin
  12. Not a war crime folks — SOD
  13. US loves to shoot the wounded huh? — SOD
  14. Don't repeat Britain's mistakes — Jerry
  15. US bottom of the league in aid — Mick
  16. War crime — Ian
  17. Yes, right... — Citizen Kane
  18. Tech fixes — Jeff
  19. Gunship footage — Matthew Vitcaks
  20. Comments are out of context — Christopher Boffoli
  21. Obvious ignorence — ski
  22. Unresolved issues — David
  23. some incorrect facts about this article — michael
  24. Another parallel to the American Revolution — publius
  25. Times etc. — Jeff
  26. time zone — michael
  27. Not murder — Ricky
  28. Gunship Video — Tim
  29. No... — akula
  30. Terrorists — Barry
  31. A reminder — George W. Bush
  32. More — Satisfied Individual
  33. You Are a Bunch of Liberial Communist — U S Navy EOD
  34. What about...? — Me myself and i
  35. Facts unclear — Bill Z
  36. You're kidding, right? — Kate
  37. Great way to fight terrorism — Joe
  38. Fighting terrorism — Mick
  39. Boo Hoo !!!!!!! — Marty
  40. Come on... — Robert
  41. Proof vs. suspicion — Mark
  42. re: suspiscion vs proof — michael
  43. Media silence — Mark
  44. Pentagon lies through its teeth — The Eagle
  45. Comments about video — MKeen
  46. Who are you people? — bisson
  47. Can't see it — Nick
  48. Absolute Morons! — Wicked Shall Be Punished
  49. Wicked Shall be Your Business Partners — Mick
  50. Apache Killing Video — Ed
  51. Shooting the wounded — Ian
  52. USA Bashers — Sniper666
  53. Pickup driver is a female — Gilles
  54. From Someone Who Is Here! — Spc M. Lafferty
  55. KILLING VIDEO — James
  56. Wake up assholes — Bill
  57. Um...one comment no one has mentioned — BC
  58. Damn Good Shooting — MilitaryIndustrialComplex
  59. Yanks can't spell Britain, let alone find it on a map — Martin
  60. Some more Damn Good Shooting — Ian
  61. If you think that's bad! — homer
  62. The Truth — Damn Yankee
  63. The rest of the truth — Per
  64. Per is God — Damn Yankee
  65. Sad Americans — Marc
  66. Not British — Per
  67. Iraqies being taken out by an apache gun ship — ardie fasinc
  68. apache killing video — Brian O'Connell (USA)
  69. Iraq and 9/11 — Jeff
  70. Reponse to Tom — Preston
  71. You idiots — J H
  72. Ive got a few facts for you — jgwolfgram (AIM)
  73. And I've got a few facts for you — Phil
  74. Its a war — John
  75. Phil... — jgwolfgram
  76. Gangsters — Phil
  77. sad — eric
  78. Fighting and dying — Mick
  79. Not tool time — Guy
  80. Bullshit — Rad
  81. You People Need To Open Your Eyes — GI JOE
  82. You need to open your eyes — Per
  83. Per Phil — Erudite
  84. US media and education — `Per
  85. German Panorama TV investigates Apache footage — Jemima Kiss
  86. if you can´t see... — sammy
  87. Yes, you're blind. — Bill Z
  88. Translation of Panorama documentary — an IMC guy
  89. New article — IMC guy
  90. We support our troops. — jimmyflood
  91. True patriotism — Larry M
  92. Good Job!! Too bad there were only three deaths:) — p cowan
  93. Are you STUPID???? — Shane
  94. for those with nothing better to do — gary and meri
  95. This war? — Mark
  96. Enough with this! — Bill
  97. You bleeding hear liberals really do not have a clue........... — Scott Murphy
  98. Deluded — Ray
  99. billz — glad im not as stupid as you
  100. Sources please? — Jon
  101. computer commados — I belive everything on the net!
  102. So, you made it up. Thought so. — General Ralph E. Fictitious
  103. ARM CHAIR VIEWING......... — BRITISH PARA
  104. You're Crazy — Jim
  105. What was your country founded upon? — Michael
  106. The truth about the truth — just me
  107. Poll in Iraq — Mark
  108. Polls? — Jerry L
  109. Get Educated!!! — me
  110. "My family owns an oil company" — Randall
  111. These comments are sad — D.
  112. Easy solution to your problem — John
  113. Everyone hates the U.S. — Bill
  114. Clarification — L. Metzger
  115. B.S. — chris
  116. Walmart Wisdom — Tony M
  117. War is War — Trippster
  118. Bullshit — Anti-bullshit
  119. Farmers,yea,thats it. — David
  120. American cowards — Crow
  121. In addition to my last comment... — Crow
  122. To: Randall — me
  123. Sickening hypocrisy — Randall
  124. War Crimes??? — Sgt
  125. Just one point of view — Sgt USMC
  126. 1984, twenty years on — Dave
  127. Proud to be American — Mark
  128. Think about this... — read enough
  129. Randall — Evil replies
  130. Thanks for clearing that up — Nathan
  131. Dave you are an idiot — hoping to never be on your side
  132. Evil — Randall
  133. General Robert Gard must also be an idiot — Jarhead Moron
  134. Hit'im Again — rich
  135. Nothing wrong with that attack — Roger
  136. Erring on the side of murder — Joe
  137. Iraqi's life is not life. Good. Very Good — Call me US hatter if you want
  138. Anti American Bastard! — Steve
  139. go apache jocks!!!!!! — Proud American
  140. The Truth on the Object being thrown — Truth Teller
  141. Rifle evidence — spanner
  142. Analysis from 5000km away is as accurate as the CIA — Javier
  143. FUD about analysis — D. Richardson
  144. Midnight Farmers — Rob
  145. WTF — Allah agbuddy
  146. Bleeding heart liberals — Richard
  147. Taking war crimes seriously — Tom
  148. Bleeding heart liberals — Richard
  149. OH well! — Mark
  150. Red Eye — will
  151. Suffering...at its' best — David c. Michigan
  152. Just Deserts — Ian Klauss
  153. Not murder just Standard Operation Procedure — Rob
  154. War crimes and deliberate action — Jon
  155. usa=trigger happy — Spen
  156. Got more? — John Denny
  157. Sickening Comments — Dominico
  158. Un-american activities — Dave
  159. US RECORD ON PUNISHING ITS SERVICEMEN — Just an observer
  160. THAT'S WHY — Luiz Cunha
  161. Removing clearly identified terrorists is NOT a war crime — south@mpton
  162. Apache killing — Robert
  163. Silent Apache — David
  164. What to do about it!!! — Owen
  165. Another one bites the dust — Evil American
  166. RAY CAN GET FUCKED! — BILLY AS IN BILLY RAY! HUH -YUCK
  167. Moral intent — Ian
  168. US saved UK in WWII ??? — mangoman
  169. ignorance — christ
  170. A better analogy — Tom
  171. Home of the Brave ? — Eoin
  172. USA HATERS — GI JOE
  173. Another point of view — Ray
  174. Bunch of unknowledgeable SOB's — Terry Merick
  175. Passing this on from Witness to Incident — andy gallo
  176. Business as usual — Rory
  177. Clueless — Clay
  178. It was fair — Ken
  179. awful video — dick
  180. why europeans suck — Nick Danger
  181. Fuck Europeans — Gunnar
  182. I'm sorry, but I can't help but have no sympathy what-so-ever. — Adam
  183. Giving the American Left a Bad Name — David
  184. apache shoots men — daryl
  185. Another point of view — Bob
  186. Evidence Related to Chopper Technology ~ They knew what they were doing. — Nyberg
  187. WMDs — John
  188. s — s
  189. Over and over again — Christian Lehmann
  190. Excessive force? No. — A proud American
  191. Points to Ponder... — Don Jordan
  192. It's war, stupid — Vladimir pugachev
  193. Amazed by the Iraqi 'farmers'... — TommythegunUSMC
  194. 911 — Kilgque
  195. How naive can someone be? — smaug
  196. I can't help but point and laugh! — Corporal Zimmerman
  197. Perfectly valid assault — Ron Johnson
  198. Got what was coming to them — R.Davidson
  199. Southboy — Fuck you
  200. Much To Think About — R.
  201. Response to Stupid American — Phil Bart
  202. Blinkered idiots — John
  203. of course it was a weapon — dan
  204. To Dan... — Wouter
  205. Kill them all — soldier
  206. death is just a game — Andy S
  207. Gucci Wraparounds? — Limey Bastard
  208. It's confirmed — Canada is better than the USA
  209. Murderers, and their flag waving fans — Dave
  210. Illegal killing — Nick
  211. USA - War and Oil Junkies — beentheredonethat
  212. september 11 my happy day! — WTC
  213. And also... — arbitrary
  214. you are all stupid and misinformed (except the british readers) — bush is wrong
  215. Liberal Idiot — John
  216. the hell with you WHINNING CIVILIANS — jason
  217. Appalling — Neil Bridgens
  218. Ragrider — Aaronboy
  219. Ragrider — Aaronboy
  220. Good Soldiers Doing Their Job — Sergei
  221. AN EXPERT OPINION — U.S.SOLDIER
  222. It's not war — manesso
  223. Don't be morons. — CJ
  224. I'm tired — Tony
  225. I'm tired — Tony
  226. We stopped an attack — Berkie
  227. THEY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED! — Mike
  228. I WAS THERE — Adam
  229. Space Rock — Marvin
  230. O-kay! — Jerry
  231. Nazi's in Red, White & Blue??? — Alex
  232. Nazi's in Red, White & Blue???? — Alex
  233. WOO HOO - KEVIN — Jehan
  234. Beware of conspiracy theories, but this is a war crime — Jason Broadrick
  235. Another Vietnam? — cyber_drifter
  236. Apache camera misconceptions — Aaron
  237. US are cowards — Brian
  238. DUH — Brian
  239. battle of britain — cockney
  240. Fuel — Blake Link
  241. Killed for enjoyment — Nick
  242. Apache video - An Apache pilot's perspective — J.T. Naylor
  243. Fools Gold — Steve
  244. DISGRACE TO OUR COUNTRY — JENNIFER
  245. Welcome to planet...USA — Al
  246. Lose-Lose Situation — Ryan
  247. To the Hosts – Censorship? — Bill
  248. lying bastards and thier followers — john roy demicol
  249. Just who exactly are the bad guys — Nigel Allen
  250. All the time — US Civilian
  251. Were they combatants? — Bill miller
  252. Censorship for all — Nick
  253. Some concerns — Caleb
  254. No meanin of life for US — Freedom fighter
  255. America the Dieing — Shane Gibson
  256. Stupified Militant America — Shane Gibson
  257. you only see and hear what you want to see and hear — matthew
  258. what really happened — NOLA
  259. Wrong time stated — Ron
  260. all this from someone who was never there — Curt Diaddigo
  261. Apache video — Kirk Pelkey
  262. Great Video — 11th cav pilot
  263. You still don't get it do you. — Chance
  264. Insurgent activity — Jimmy
  265. 2nd Guy apachi — Michael
  266. Waw-waw — so done
  267. quick note — fdgjhrgyj
  268. Let's bomb the Brits! — Stevie
  269. comments — gaetan hudon
  270. The whole story? — Mr. Nolan
  271. I've seen the whole video — ev
  272. More about the situation — Nuclear Mike
  273. WTF? — patryck
  274. more mounting evidence of war crimes!!!!! — Jeff Hilliard

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