The ALF, it's struggle.

Help me! Save me! I need oversentimental idiots to take care of my interests - and it's also a handy way for them avoid thinking about who they are, and to look down on others of less 'pure' diets. This is a fucking cult. [no spelling mistake].

In times like these, we could all use more compassion. Not only for the animals which we tourture for no reason other than greed, but for all the people freezing on the streets, starving in their homes, being hunted and shot in their own country. If we cant feel compassion for the animals, who have no voice of their own in our society, who can we feel for? Kant once said that a person who inflicts cruelty on an animal will certainly be willing to harm another human.

Hey Gerrit, if you like animals so much you really should try veal. Right up your street.

Violence may well beget violence, but face it, it tastes good.

Also, think about it - everyone thinks free range hens are happier - but why is scrabbling about exposed to the elements, competing for food, having fertilised eggs snatched away from you so much better then living in a warm battery environment where food comes to you regularly?

In any case - have you asked the animals if they're unhappy and if they're pleased at ALF actions on their behalf? Just as you claim, a bit tastelessly, that the "holocaust" against the animal kingdom (and shouldn't that be a republic really?) drives the ALF, why shouldn't I argue that your actions reinforce my desire to wear fur, eat meat, and hunt down foxes?

Nobody sane would disagree that more compassion is needed for all of Jah's living creatures, but the trouble is that the ALF has too many nutters in its ranks.

People who love the ickle bunnies (or think they do - releasing mink to die of starvation & disease in the wild whilst wiping out indigenous species ISN'T clever guys) while despising vast swathes of their own species.

People with very dodgy far right opinions. Sorry its true, the fash love to target ALF-type groups for infiltration.

People who bang on about humanity's "immoral" treatment of animals while forgetting that morality is a human INVENTION which other animals don't give a toss about.

People who condemn their dogs and cats (evolved carnivores) to a slow and painful death by forcing them to eat "vegan dog food."

And regardless of what Kant said: Hitler was a vegetarian and the Nazis considered themselves paragons of animal welfare.

Himmler once gave a speech to the SS leadership where he said that the Final Solution (ie gassing) was proof of the Third Reich's "humane" attitude towards "lower animals."

Soz, but the ALF is too intolerant for my liking. They remind me of anti-abortionists who kill doctors and nurses 'cos of their alleged "respect for life."

Free trader said: In any case - have you asked the animals if they're unhappy and if they're pleased at ALF actions on their behalf?

What a juvenille idiotic comment. I guess the article made you feel guilty at some level.

Shame about the idiotic replies. 'Anti capitalists'? my eye.

What of those that capitalize abusing animals within this 'system' you so despise?

What of those that profit from the misery and death of those that cannot fight back? The conditions are no different to Treblinka, Dachau, Ravensbrook or Auschwitz.

Someone has to fight back. Join us? No, your too scared of the war. Too full of yourselves to stand up for something you as 'masters' class as 'below you'.

Anarchy goes hand in hand with animal liberation. Liberty for all! Not just for some!


"For some of us animal liberation is a war we intend to win. For some of us
the tears are real, our hearts really do break and we are prepared to die
for it, not just chant for it. If you don't act then you condone. If you
don't fight then you don't win. All we have to do is try, all we have to do
is care, all we have to do is fight."
Barry Horne. Sept 1998

To the idiots: Go to  http://www.vivisection.info/paca/index.html and see the victims and casualties of the constant war that you weakly dismiss.

hitlers doctor advised him to give up meat due to a stomach complaint. It is well know and documented that hitler broke all the doctors rules mainly due to his insatiable desire to eat german sausage along with beef ravioli and other products of abuse.

Have a look at a book called ETERNAL TREBLINKA to get the times, dates and proof of these facts.

Get your facts straight before you try and minimise the debate on the A.L.F

First off - no-one in their right mind wishes unecessary cruelty to animals.
However, have we lost the plot - ALF are bigots fueled on the testerone of a Trendy cause...people willing to kill and die to save animals...TERRORISTS in my book.

We are omnivores - getting back to nature we should all eat both meat and veg - the only true way to be healthy without spending hours hunting out trendy foods and taking vast amounts of vitamin pills.

Testing of cosmetcis should be banned - no disagreement but what about Animal Experiments - I have 2 kids - one autistic and if there was a new drug that could cure them and there was a choice of testing on an animal and my son - the animal would be tested - no hesitation.

Most of these ALF supporters are childless, new age and trendy! They are not in the real world - they have n't suffered and have latched on to this evil group. They live in a rich society that supports and nurtures them - they do not know how lucky they are.

Vivisection must and will continue and the majority of us will continue to eat meat - none of us normal people are cruel - just realistic and have got our priorities right.

"none of us normal people are cruel" ... Is that right Mark.

Most 'normal' people like to eat the flesh of the brutally slaughtered dead animal.

They like to steal the milk from the calf and have it slaughtered young whilst imprisoning its mother and forcing her to repeat the birthing process over and over again until she's finished.

They like their drugs to make them better tested on live animals. Remember thalidomide?

They like to fish in the sea with barbed hooks that tear the throats of the fish before their flesh is eaten.

They like to watch the horses break their ankles and legs running around racetracks with 'normal' people on their backs.

The list of activities attributed to the abuse of animals via 'normal' people will go down in the halls of shame in humanities history.

Shame on you!

Who the hell do these 'normal' people thimk they are?

This is the A.L.F

What more needed and noble cause is there than to speak for those who are shackled and abused and have no voice with which to speak but ours? It's a moral abomination what happens to animals in labs and on factory farms and so many other places. But we are still in the dark days for animals. Some day people like these idiots who are ridiculing the animal movement will say that they can't believe how animals were once treated. They're like the people now who say that they can't believe there were slaves or Jews in concentration camps and of course everyone knows that was wrong--but in reality these people wouldn't have done a damn thing to make it end--they ridicule liberation movements until the war is won, the dust clears, and then they jump on board and say that of course it was right that this group was liberated. What is happening to animals is no different than what happened to the Jews in the camps or any other tortured group. To people who think it's sentimental to care about other sentient creatures: have a look at the destroyed faces and bodies of lab animals and factory farmed animals. You don't answer to me, you answer to them and to your own worthless conscience.

When has anyone ever been killed by the ALF, or the ELF for that matter? Yes, people have died, but they are people who have been prepared to die for what they believed in. Besides, it seems to me that there are a number of people who, at root, have no care or compassion for animals and hide behind the argument that the ALF are terrorists as a reason for doing nothing. I believe seperatism for the Basc country is a good thing, but this doesn't mean that I have to support ETA in their every action. The ALF is but one movement among many who are fighting and campaigning for animal welfare.

And anyone who believes that animal testing and vivisection is either 'normal', or that it will save the lives of their family, friends, self etc. seriously needs to do more research into the subject rather than spouting the same tired lines pushed upon the general public by scholistic institutions, the government and the pharmacutical industry. Considering that many of the world's leading doctors are 100% against vivisection, it makes sense to actually find out the facts.

Try: Seriously Ill Against Vivisection  http://www.siav.org/
The Absurdity of Vivisection: www.vivisection-absurd.org.uk
Europeans For Medical Advancement (EFMA): www.curedisease.net
Americans For Medical Advancement (AFMA): www.curedisease.com
Doctors And Lawyers for Responsible Medicine: www.dlrm.org
In Defense of Animals: www.vivisectioninfo.org
British Anti Vivisection Association:  http://www.eurosolve.com/charity/bava
UnCaged:  http://www.uncaged.co.uk
Vivisection is a Lie:  http://members.aol.com/adlnycli/Campaigns/viviinfo.htm
History of Vivisection:  http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/6423/history.txt

Do your research before making flippant comments.

Further:

The doctor and medical writer Dr Vernon Coleman wrote: “The real truth is that the available evidence shows that animal experiments are a waste of time, that animal experiments have never led to any useful breakthrough and that they are never likely to lead to any useful breakthroughs. The simple unvarnished truth is that animals get different types of cancer to human beings, animals respond quite differently to drugs…Indeed, the evidence shows that instead of helping doctors, researchers working with animals have held back medical progress and have been responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths.”

I can tell you that many societies have no choice when it comes to hunting. In some environments, the ground is too infertile or frozen to plant anything. They have built their entire culture around hunting and fishing, and to try and change that would be cruel, close-minded, and ethnocentric.
It is not my place to judge the actions of any culture (including my own) but rather my place to study it, accept it, and try to understand it.
I must agree that many members of the ALF have never seen real suffering. I have seen women raped, circumsized, and beaten (not in the field, but here in America). I have worked in children's shelters, orphanages, rape crisis centers, and soup kitchens. When I feed and comfort these people, I don't worry about whether the soup has chicken broth, or whether the blankets are wool. Somehow, the twelve-year-old pregnant rape victim is foremost on my mind.

The truth of the whole the is that not one innocent person has died as a result of ALF's actions. However, deaths may be expected eventually, for, as stated by Ronnie Lee, the Animal Rights movement is a war. Animals are living sentient beings just like ourselves, and we believe they have as equal of a right to liberty as we do. From age 14 I've questioned why humans aren't being used for experiments to help other humans, but now I see that the only reason is that it appears more politically and morally friendly to use animals, a rather contradictory argument within itself, being that the only withstanding difference between us and our fellow creatures is our mental capacity.

Now, before I start my own little war here, I'll end with a quote from Ronnie Lee to better explain ALF's position:

"Animal liberation is a fierce struggle that demands total commitment. There will be injuries and possibly deaths on both sides. That is sad but certain."