G20 policing caused man's death: police coverup and media lies

solidarity meeting: 6PM TONIGHT LARC

02.04.2009 10:17

to help co-ordinate solidarity efforts in relation to the death of a protester yesterday - we have booked LARC - (62 Fieldgate Street Whitechapel) for a meeting TONIGHT 6PM. please help spread the word!

at the moment very little information is available about the events leading up to, during and after his death. we need to work together.

elli mac

THE MEDIA ARE THE GUILTY PARTYS, TARGET THE TRUE LINE OF FIRE... WAPPING !!

02.04.2009 11:59

THE REAL ENEMY ARE THE MEDIA TARGET THEM, THE SUN, THE BBC THE LOT OF THE M, AND DO A GOOD JOB, THEY ARE CAUSINGH ALL THE WORLDS PROBLEMS AS THEY PROMOTE THEM ALL

PHOBOS

POLICE MURDERED PROTESTER IN AMBULANCE

02.04.2009 12:03

THEY ARE NOT INNOCENT , THEY KILL PEOPLE WITHOUT GIVING A HINT OF REMORSE TRY CHARLES DE MENZIES , LIDDLE TOWERS THE LIST GOES ON, ITS BOUT TIME THEY TOOK SOME FATALITYS, SAD BUT TRUE , THEN THEY WILL NEED TO DECIDE WHETHER TO WORK FOR THE EVIL EMPIRE OF JOIN THE TRIBULANT AND VICTORIOUS REVOLUTION WHERE THE MASSES TURN AND OVERTHROW GOVERMNET VIOLENTLY AND SUCCESSFULLY

ANN ARCHY

wake up!

02.04.2009 12:57

when the kid died on greece we burn everythink friends i hope they revolution spirit will wake up after this death because the cops must be pay
A.C.A.B greece intifanta

jason
mail e-mail: iasonasss@hotmail.com

Not a protestor?

02.04.2009 15:15

A man who died during the protests in the City of London yesterday was on his way home from work when he collapsed and is not thought to have been part of the marches.

Ian Tomlinson, 47, was found unconscious near to St Michael’s Alley off of Cornhill near the Bank of England just before 7.30pm yesterday.

He had been returning to his home near by from working at a newsagents.

Times
Homepage: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/G20/article6023020.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1

police medics arnt paramedic, they attack people

02.04.2009 15:19

in this video we see a marked up police medic pull someone by the dredds then he appears to strike several people. (

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04s1bsIRGY4 )
this is why they get things thrown at them, this man needed a paramedic. not a big angry testosterone pumped man with a big stick charging at him.

7

Possible cause??

02.04.2009 15:31

THIS was posted on an email list. The poster seems to know what they're talking about. It's not necessary for this guy to have been beaten up by the police for their kettling tactics, aggressive shoving people around, and forcing people into crushes, to have caused his death.

"I don't want to cause rumours, so bear in mind that this is just a 'maybe', but a lot of deaths like this are due to undiagnosed concussion or compression from (sometimes fairly minor) head injuries. they're very hard to discern from drunken behaviour (irritability, dizziness, etc) and heat and exhaustion, conditions which the kettle will have produced, may have caused the tipping point.

it's worth noting that this is the causes of most deaths in police cells too.

take care today, for those of you who are out on the streets - don't drink alcohol, stay hydrated and eat plenty of high energy food."

Stroppyoldgit
mail e-mail: dodgy@umpire.com

When someone dies, no time to talk

02.04.2009 16:59

Everyone has to act fast and hard. The state killed someone in one way or another. And kills every second everybody with different ways. How they killed this protested doesn't matter just that they did and they should pay for it. Also so they can think next time if someone dies then hell will break lose (it may slow them down and think). Because that is the only thing they understand, life is not one of that.
It only took 2 hours to learn and get out in the streets and turn Athens into the glowing symbol we all loved to see. At first the only things that were there was rocks and that is what they attacked the cops with a rain of rocks none stop. After that the sky was lite up and every bank that the window was broken it was burning.
It was very good action but I would have loved to see that bank up in smoke. Remember that molotov are great for defense for cop, their dogs and horses, they don't like that and the oil makes it hard to control the horse even after they put it out. Throwing a bike in the horses legs works great too. These are not any more normal animals and can't look at it as we don't hurt animals (they are machines of the state and are the same as a cap car). More helmets would be good also because then you are not scared if some cop hits you on your head and the helmet also is great to brake windows and no one can see your face when you are waring it.
Violence to the violence of the state!!!

George

What we need to know

02.04.2009 17:09

If it turns out to be true that the guy who died was a worker in a local newsagent going home (as the Times alleges) there are still questions to be asked and eye-witness accounts to be collected.

Was he kettled by cops at the time? Many people nothing to do with our actions were. Police accounts say 2 "medics" "came through the cordon". Every serial has 2 so-called "medics" and there were loads of serials in vans and moving around outside the kettle, so if he was outside a kettle, why did the "medics" have to come through a cordon to get to him? There would have been plenty already outside the kettle

Had he been shoved around, had a shield pushed in his face or been hit by the cops beforehand?

We still need the story and to counteract police lies even if the Times story is right -and I don't believe it just because it's in that police mouthpiece.

Oh, and police raiding Ramparts and the convergence centre today reportedly included references to "one of you croaked last night" in their general abuse. So they think he was with us.

Stroppyoldgit

@ George

02.04.2009 18:05

GEORGE says :- "Remember that molotov are great for defense for cop, their dogs and horses, they don't like that and the oil makes it hard to control the horse even after they put it out. Throwing a bike in the horses legs works great too"

An example of the kind of f*ckwits that's on here. Ever thought that your seriously a complete c*nt George.

Here's hoping when your throwing one of these cocktails that you go up in flames and burn like f*ck.

BA

@ George

02.04.2009 20:08

“These are not any more normal animals and can't look at it as we don't hurt animals”

That is clearly not true, whatever you do to the cops leave the animals out of it! Animals are not tools; just because they are being used like that doesn’t justify you harming them. Anyone who harms them isn’t a ‘radical’ they are just violent abusers, true radicals must deal with them as such.

Real Action

@ George

02.04.2009 20:29

George, your the kind of unbalanced idiot that needs to be rattled round the head with a police baton a good few times.

Chris

police should be made accountable for imprisoning this person and for his death.

02.04.2009 20:31

Realist where did you get your FACTS?
If as you say he was ‘on his way back from work’ what was he doing in the middle of the protest, sure there were people joining the protest on the way back from work ? Maybe it was there because he was demonstrating or maybe he went in to look at what was going on, we don’t know, what we do know is he couldn’t leave, trapped and stressed at being withheld against his will, he would have suffered great anxiety as did many other protesters at dealing with soulless, aggressive and angry police, he wasn’t a violent protester so why hold him in, an innocent man held against his will, the police should be made accountable for imprisoning this person and for his death.

chrisgo1

horses and dogs

02.04.2009 20:48

the animals are slaves that need liberating. hurting them doesn't affect the police, they don't care. it just causes un necessary suffering. Tactics do exist to get people off horses. it's worked for hunt-sabs before.

animal loving anarcho

move on

02.04.2009 21:15

we don't need proof and we don't need facts. we can stand here today listening to the experts telling us what is possible and what is not, or we can forget all that and just do it anyway. Facts just get in the way and what we are trying to do.

acab

er...

03.04.2009 01:47

"we don't need proof and we don't need facts. we can stand here today listening to the experts telling us what is possible and what is not, or we can forget all that and just do it anyway. Facts just get in the way and what we are trying to do."

You don't need facts!!!!

WTF

so a lie will do instead, if you dont act on facts you act on a lie and if you dont have proof then you are the tool of whoever spouts the most sh1t.

oh and George, I concur with other statments here, I dont know if you have had a knock on the head but you do need one rather badly.living proof that Darwin should have put a bit more time into the book.

WTF!

to acab

03.04.2009 09:34

The State thrives on lies, manipulation and spin. Do we really want to base a radical mvement on their policies? I know I don't. Lets not wade in like half-wit riot cops at a climate camp, but find out the truth before acting.
Keats said something like: 'Beauty is truth, Truth is beauty. That's all you know on earth and all you need to know.' Nice huh?

anon

Lenny

03.04.2009 14:32

On Indymedia we have all this footage of breaking a few windows at the RBS , all the footage of "police brutality", even footage of police eating donuts for feck sake! Yet no single footage of the supposed incident leading up to or of this mans death? Thousands of protesters with cameras and video recorders.

Nevermind, don't let that get in the way of using a dead man to further your aims of "smashing the state".

G20 policing linked to man's death?

Facts and 'Facts'

03.04.2009 14:45

I think the 'facts' acab is referring to are the same sort of facts produced during the De Menezes case (and others) Whereby the Police were not held accountable a) for the cold blooded murder of De Menezes and b) for the obvious and purposeful fabrication of events on the day of his murder. Those sort of facts be it by the police, front organisations such as the IPCC or the media should not really be depended on in order to formulate a judgement. As for reactions to this event. Unfortunately, though i long for the day to see a more direct approach against the state an its army (police, military etc) in the UK, I feel even most so called revolutionary groups in England will not recognise these mechanisms as part of the problem and not the solution and I feel that needs addressing. I completely disagree with the viewpoint of hurting the horses and canines etc and see no reasoning behind it either but in situations such as those that occurred on the 1st, it was the cops that should have been addressed by the protesters and not the other way round, England needs to break with tradition and cease being the socio/political graveyard it has been throughout its history (with v few exceptions) Also, living in a country like the UK which, after the US is most heavily involved in the destruction of the third world (through economic and military actions) means that the level of responsibility the people of the country hold, and especially those that will call themselves activists is increased, And when the vast majority of 'activists' in the UK will by choice liaise with murderous mechanisms such as the Police in order to reach a deal on the smallest of issues like where and when to protest about anything, I see no independence in ideological structure and approaches.

I do wish you the best of luck though

Ex UK now Athens

FACKED OFF

FIT claimed he was street drinker

03.04.2009 14:50

One of the FIT teams harassing people on Bishopsgate around 5pm last night slandered the dead man as a "street drinker" who had a heart attack after drinking too much. The three officers were from Croydon and included ZD4 Joe Ross and ZD45 Darren Birmingham.

ACAB

@ FACKED OFF

03.04.2009 14:56

Just the same as everyone has it stamped "police brutality" is it not possible that the person who died could have died of natural causes? Stroke, heart attack? No?

Or does that not fit in with the "anti-police brigade" thoughts? Makes it more jucier han a simple natural cause and justifies actions now. Very convenienet eh?

CJ

If you can't make the protest send the MET a kettle

03.04.2009 15:10

Disposing of your old kettle in an environmentally friendly way is difficult. Since the police seem to like kettles so much help them out by sending your old kettle to:

Metropolitan Police Service
New Scotland Yard
Broadway
London
SW1H 0BG

or if you prefer the city police to receive your kettle

Bishopsgate Police Station
182 Bishopsgate
London EC2M 4NP

Please do this during the week starting Monday the 6th of April and Pass the idea on to anyone you know who has an old kettle they want to get rid of or who wants to protest against police tactics.

bill stickers

to CJ

03.04.2009 15:11

That's not what i said at all. What I said was that the media, police and IPCC accounts should not play a fundamental part in formulating ones opinion as there is ample proof to demonstrate their constant pattern of lying in order to validate actions that have (directly/indirectly) led to human casualties. As for the specific incident. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that kettling is extremely dangerous for anyone with any sort pf physical condition as it only serves to exasperate it. Anyone who's ever been kettled will second that. It was only a matter of time for a casualty inside the kettled area, and the longer the police force people to remain under those circumstances the higher the risk that something like this will happen.

Still FACKED OFF

key issues

03.04.2009 15:59

whether the guy was a protester or not, whether he was directly killed by the police or not, now facts have come to light proving that the cops are lying scumbags who did little to help and plenty to hinder the medical help he needed, they are still deeply implicated in his death.

as "bill stickers" suggests - i will be sending my old kettle to my local cop shop on saturday. fantastic idea!

lolwob

Solidarity to our British brothers!

03.04.2009 16:30

THE REVOLT IS NOT UTOPIA!

ssid
mail e-mail: ssid@antidrasi.com

Taking the measure of (wo)men

03.04.2009 18:35

Yesterday brought things to a head: there can be no excuse anymore to recognize that the police will resort to both psy-ops (such as "summer of rage", Kingsnorth & Heathrow CCs, and some would go further still in citing examples of psy-ops by the police and the UK government's intelligence services) and outright physical brutality. Many were speculating on the timing and media value of the "summer of rage" PR slogan as a pre-emptive escalation of the stakes. The "rage" is not so much that of (allegedly) legit protesters but that of the government's militarised, intelligence saturated squad of bouncers and thugs. These have the full weight of the system behind them, and clearly were tasked with taking advantage of that power differential yesterday. We now have a measure of them, which advances our preparations. We now know, without any shadow of a doubt, that state sanctioned violence, played out before the press cameras, with or without provocateurs, is the new tactic. The strategy is the same as always of course, but the tactics have been upped. The G20 "solution" is presumably little more than a soundbite to glorify dropping more of public money into the pockets of the already fabulously wealthy ... get rich quick, "before the whole shit house goes up in flames" (JD Morrison). The police violence will defend that, and like the good guard dogs they are, keeping the riff-raff at bay, they will receive the crumbs from the masters' table.

So ... really dear fellow "riff-raff" people - what next? Can we use this blatant knowledge to our advantage? If we up the ante, what are the likely consequences and can we absorb those? Are those the best ways forward? How do we engage a critical mass to start diversifying the identification of those most affected to those sectors who would not normally consider themselves activist, protester (let alone "anarchist")? Is it time to look at getting a big tent up, to join forces and allow each grievance to be aired - regardless of the message: medium over message, because once the medium is developed it will become the message - one of revolt across multiple fronts simultaneously.

Solidarity to all who participated. I didn't in body but you have my spirit and are in my prayers ... thank you all for your remarkable courage in these very difficult and horrifying times, even worse than when in my own youth in many respects. If it is any consolation, the issues are actually broader and transcend those generational divisions that permeated much of what we did back when. This gives you a broad church to draw from - everybody is hurting. It is necessary to hook ordinary television-seduced, job-dependant people, to somehow make them think and to pay attention to the fact that the world is now a radically different place.

If anyone has bright ideas what an old fart can do from her wheel chair, you let me know ... somehow the aged are expected to not feel angry at the massive deception, that we lost loved ones for rights and freedoms and principles that now our own government is dismantling, that we feel horror at corporations taking control of our well-being, our food supplies, our basic welfare and yet they remain unaccountable and the government is in their pocket and has sold us out to the highest (actually, the lowest!) bidder.

God bless you people - and by God, let those corporations and ministers know that you mean business!

Old Fart

Spread the word

03.04.2009 19:10

Watch, share, vote, rate...

The more views and ratings the easier the videos can be found by others:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCwQt3zBq8

http://current.com/items/89940880/full_intreview_with_eyewitnesses_of_g20_death.htm

http://blip.tv/file/1952722

pfm

They say that he was heading home and yet he appears...

03.04.2009 20:08

They the Police say that he was heading home and yet he appears to be kettled.

In today's newspapers it has been quote that Ian Tomlinson was heading home from work to his Hostel after working in a newsagent and that he has a number of children and sadly divorce from his Wife.

Just my point of view the "story of him heading home" and wasn't a "protester" doesn't ring right.

Put yourself in this position if you a). as been homeless for many years, b). lived in hostel, c). divorce. d.)nothing to welcome you home. Would you go back home to a Hostel? or would you attend the protest? Which would be more inviting?

Sitting at a.) Hostel or b.) Taking part? If it was me then I take part in the Protest.

As far as if he is or not protester, in the Police books everyone who was cordoned or kettle off was in their view a protester. It first appears that he fell within the kettle area please correct me if I'm wrong. Police had to come in and take him away. Appears to be well enough to walk 200 yard before collapsing with an "Heart Attack".

This was around 7:30pm see video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfiB4dMZD6I&feature=channel_page they have been kettled for "FIVE" hours we cannot get a timing for this clip but assuming it 6 o'clock or whatever time you want the they would had been kettle since 2 o'clock. So how did Ian Tomlinson get Kettled assuming that he was on his way home after work? Or was he part of the protest?

He could be on his way home after the police pulled him from the crowd as he was seen walking away from the area for 200 yards before collapsing.

Jo

This paper deserves a response!

03.04.2009 22:11

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/features/4263804.The_summit_of_folly/

Salut

Brave Comrades

04.04.2009 00:51

I salute brave comrades who demonstrated in London in recent times. Police are accountable for the death and many injuries, I know from personal experience what cheap bullying cowards they are - I condemn there behaviourt utterly and salute and stand by brave anarchist comrades, true "soldiers of humanity

george coombs
mail e-mail: georgecmbs@tiscali.co.uk

what we want

04.04.2009 01:13

@@He could be on his way home after the police pulled him from the crowd as he was seen walking away from the area for 200 yards before collapsing.

I agree - but I dont think the facts are that important. even if he wasnt there we can still use this to help smash the system

anarchist

Dislike the trolls but ...

04.04.2009 08:39

... they may have a point: if the idea is to build a critical mass of protest, using someone's death that cannot be attributed directly to (with evidence of attribution) to the filth is not on. It comes across as callous, opportunistic, and shallow to the suffering of others.

If he was kettled, then it may be useful to identify the harmful effects of kettling (just like tazers), but that hasn't yet been demonstrated that he was kettled.

It is indeed unfortunate in the extreme that Mr Tomlinson died, whatever his circumstances, and my heart goes to his family and friends who have lost one of their own. Using his death is not the way forward though. If his death can be linked to police activity, then fair enough, but otherwise the appropriate response is to let his family and friends mourn without dragging his death into protester martyrdom.

My suggestion would be to start rallying support among the ordinary, work-a-day people. The groundswell of the Poll Tax riots was because everyone was hit hard in their pockets, so it united people. Unfortunately, people in the UK are generally too apathetic and self-absorbed to actually get off their butts to protest. This will now be an even bigger hurdle to cross considering the PR show of force used by the filth - legal protests met with armed police use of force, protesters getting bloodied, peaceful marching being turned into a five hour restraint. The filth used this as a tactic, to show "who is boss", and this will put a lot of people off already from joining in. We need more strings to our bow than marching from A to B, and certainly should not be associated with using the unfortunate death of a person for political capital.

Dan Dare

@Realist

04.04.2009 09:12

Articles and/or comments may be hidden for the following reasons:
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Personal attack: Articles and/or comments that contain abusive language against other activists or site users. Please make your point without resorting to personal abuse.

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JimDog*

Innocent man

04.04.2009 09:51

Perhaps he was a innocent Man who became agitated and feared that he may be hit on the head with a hammer by Anarchist pro communist protesters, because he had a different opinion to them.
everybody knows that Anarchist like to hit people with hammers they disagree with, it was all over every newspaper.
Enough to give any Innocent Man a heart attack.

dave

Your comments ....

04.04.2009 10:27

.... may well be an expression of "free" speech, but don't really add much to the debate. You hold a differing opinion, but there is no need to resort to the terminology you deployed in your post:

Idiots...

04.04.2009 06:53
...and morons!

You will never beat 'the system', your random acts of vandalism just turn the British public against you! To feed of a mans death is disgusting and Anarchist, you are the most cold blooded of them all! You complain about 'the state', when a lot of you are happy to use the 'spin' of POLICE KILL PROESTER to further your pathetic and chirlish cause. Wake up. Stop being part of the problem and start realising your protests have done nothing. Nothing is perfect and the government is partially to blame, however, your acts of vandalism are nothing more than acts of crime and should you ever have any of your possessions stolen/damaged, I hope you never receive help. It's one rule for one and one for you.

Grow up, get over it, deal with it and stop with your pointless marches!

Leave this poor man alone you filthy vultures!

Realist

@realist

The Widow and the Sun and important pictures

04.04.2009 11:44

The Sun newspaper today carries a story about the widow of the man that died near the Bank of England, complete with picture where she is ripping down some of the messages that were left on the board by the bank - specifically those that said he was a protestor and that he was killed by the police / state.

OK, it's the Sun, but I can appreciate her sorrow and anger at the memory of her husband appearing to be used as a political football.

I can also understand that the police first said that they thought he was a protestor and the media also reported this, so it's little surprise that many people thought this was the case.

It's tragic.

I also found another picture on the internet on the Demotix freelance / citizen journalism website taken by Anna Weaver that shows the man on the floor with protestors around him, and one woman on her mobile phone (presumably making a 999 call?).

I'm not going to post the pictures here, because I do not believe this thread of discussion is a suitable place for such images. Indymedia can be a great place to report events, but it is also sometimes a sickening shouting match with the comments used to hurl abuse, misinformation and purile commentary. I do post my own images to Indymedia but sometimes I wonder why I bother, more so of late.

Anyway, the links to the story and the picture are below. For note the widow has expressed her gratitude to _all _ who tried to help him.

Sun newspaper story:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2360784.ece

Demotix picture by Anna Weaver:

https://london.indymedia.org.uk/articles/1051

anon

More information...

04.04.2009 11:44

Ian Tomlinson: What happened?

http://greenerblog.blogspot.com/2009...-happened.html

Jo

Coralling 1999

04.04.2009 15:02

Please see a blog entry I wrote for the KaosPilots Netherlands

http://www.kpnlteam2.wordpress.com

Kwela Sabine Hermanns
mail e-mail: kwela@kaospilots.nl
Homepage: http://www.kaospilots.nl

Inconsistent police statement

04.04.2009 18:06

If Ian came to join the protest, which would be a conscious decision *even if* he was on his way back from work at the time (at the time just before the kettling, Bank was far too rammed for him to have been "passing through"), what are we to make of his wife and kids' claim that he wasn't a protester?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2358414.ece

If we take the word of his family, then maybe the witnesses are just remembering a different guy who also collapsed (after all, in the photo the Guardian printed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/g20-summit-protester-death , Ian isn't wearing a Millwall shirt, and if that wasn't Ian, the family would've got them to retract it, maybe?). Aaanyway, the point is - doesn't this whole thing just expose the police's immediate response about rescuing him from the kettle and resuscitating him amid missiles from protesters as an immediate cover-up for something they feared would look bad on them (i.e. if they'd forced him into a kettle and let him die). All that bottle-throwing yob stuff was their knee-jerk reaction to make the death reflect well on them and badly on us. They were told that someone had died, and they twisted the story.

Once the guy's family said that he hadn't been a protester, funny how the police's statement changed from heroically rushing into the mob to save him...

"City of London Police is investigating the sudden death of a man who was found collapsed near Cornhill, EC3 on April 1st 2009....Ian Tomlinson, a City resident, aged 47, was on his way home from work at a newsagent's when he died."

satsuma

broken link in "More information..." by Jo

04.04.2009 18:53

The link in the comment "More information..." by Jo is broken; here is the real link:

http://greenerblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/ian-tomlinson-what-happened.html

Some very interesting information in there.

anon

link to lots of interesting comments and eyewitness accounts of the incident

04.04.2009 19:03

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/lenin/6728461375957839857/

anon

Millwall shirts

05.04.2009 01:41

> in the photo the Guardian printed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/
> world/2009/apr/02/g20-summit-protester-death , Ian isn't
> wearing a Millwall shirt

He is, in fact he's wearing two, one is a blue home strip, the other a Neil Harris "All time leading goal scorer" print, like these:

http://www.subsidesports.com/uk/images/product/large/MillwallHSS0607.gif

http://pics.livejournal.com/wakeupmillwall/pic/001pcayk/

You can see it says "Millwall FC" on Ian Tomlinson's shirts here:

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00771/SNN0206A2G-280_771993a.jpg

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00771/SNN0206B2G-380_771995a.jpg

ratchets-and-hammers

millwall shirt

05.04.2009 10:38

> in the photo the Guardian printed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/
> world/2009/apr/02/g20-summit-protester-death , Ian isn't
> wearing a Millwall shirt

He is, in fact he's wearing two

Oh, ok, yeah - I guess I was looking for a football strip. Ok, so he was the guy the crowd witnessed - his family would rather think he was "not a protester" (or maybe the Sun are paying them for a story with a bit of a spin).

The Guardian also ran this this morning, which can only be good:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/05/g20-protest-ian-tomlinson

satsuma

Police 'assaulted' bystander who died - Guardian

05.04.2009 11:10

"
Photographer Anna Branthwaite said: "I can remember seeing Ian Tomlinson. He was rushed from behind by a riot officer with a helmet and shield two or three minutes before he collapsed." Branthwaite, an experienced press photographer, has made a statement to the IPCC.
Another independent statement supports allegations of police violence. Amiri Howe, 24, recalled seeing Mr Tomlinson being hit "near the head" with a police baton. Howe took one of a sequence of photographs that show a clearly dazed Mr Tomlinson being helped by a bystander.
A female protester, who does not want to be named but has given her testimony to the IPCC, said she saw a man she later recognised as Tomlinson being pushed aggressively from behind by officers. "I saw a man violently propelled forward, as though he'd been flung by the arm, and fall forward on his head.
"He hit the top front area of his head on the pavement. I noticed his fall particularly because it struck me as a horrifically forceful push by a policeman and an especially hard fall; it made me wince."
"

Danny
Homepage: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/05/g20-protest-ian-tomlinson

Observer reportage - 'police assaulted bystander who died'

05.04.2009 11:17

Police 'assaulted' bystander who died during G20 protestsMark Townsend and Paul Lewis
The Observer, Sunday 5 April 2009

The man who died during last week's G20 protests was "assaulted" by riot police shortly before he suffered a heart attack, according to witness statements received by the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

Investigators are examining a series of corroborative accounts that allege Ian Tomlinson, 47, was a victim of police violence in the moments before he collapsed near the Bank of England in the City of London last Wednesday evening. Three witnesses have told the Observer that Mr Tomlinson was attacked violently as he made his way home from work at a nearby newsagents. One claims he was struck on the head with a baton.

Photographer Anna Branthwaite said: "I can remember seeing Ian Tomlinson. He was rushed from behind by a riot officer with a helmet and shield two or three minutes before he collapsed." Branthwaite, an experienced press photographer, has made a statement to the IPCC.

Another independent statement supports allegations of police violence. Amiri Howe, 24, recalled seeing Mr Tomlinson being hit "near the head" with a police baton. Howe took one of a sequence of photographs that show a clearly dazed Mr Tomlinson being helped by a bystander.

A female protester, who does not want to be named but has given her testimony to the IPCC, said she saw a man she later recognised as Tomlinson being pushed aggressively from behind by officers. "I saw a man violently propelled forward, as though he'd been flung by the arm, and fall forward on his head.

"He hit the top front area of his head on the pavement. I noticed his fall particularly because it struck me as a horrifically forceful push by a policeman and an especially hard fall; it made me wince."

Mr Tomlinson, a married man who lived alone in a bail hostel, was not taking part in the protests. Initially, his death was attributed by a police post mortem to natural causes. A City of London police statement said: "[He] suffered a sudden heart attack while on his way home from work."

But this version of events was challenged after witnesses recognised the dead man from photographs that were published on Friday.

An IPCC statement was due to be released the same day and is understood to have portrayed the death as a tragic accident. However, the statement's release was postponed as the complaints body received information that police officers may have been more involved in events than previously thought. An IPCC spokesman said yesterday that in light of new statements it was "assessing" the information it had received before deciding whether to launch a full investigation.

Part of the commission's inquiries will involve the examination of CCTV footage from the area.

Liberal Democrat MP David Howarth said: "Eventually there will have to be a full inquest with a jury. It is a possibility this death was at police hands."

A police source told the Observer that Mr Tomlinson appears to have become caught between police lines and protesters, with officers chasing back demonstrators during skirmishes. He was seen stumbling before he collapsed and died on Cornhill Street, opposite St Michael's Alley, around 7.25pm.

At around 7.10pm, protesters had gathered outside the police cordon to call for those contained inside - some for hours - to be let out. Officers with batons and shields attempted to clear them from the road.

Around 7.20pm, five riot police, and a line of officers with dogs, emerged from Royal Exchange Square, a pedestrian side street. Three images taken around this time show Mr Tomlinson on the pavement, in front of five riot police, and in apparent distress. He had one arm in the air, and appeared to be in discussion with the officers.

Mr Tomlinson then appears to have been lifted to his feet by a bystander. Minutes later he fell to the ground. "We saw this guy staggering around," said Natalie Langford, 21, a student. "He looked disorientated. About five seconds later he fell, and I grabbed my friends to help him."

Police have claimed that when paramedics tried to move Mr Tomlinson away for urgent treatment, bottles were thrown at them by protesters. He was later pronounced dead at hospital.

Branthwaite added: "He [Mr Tomlinson] was not a mouthy kid or causing problems, but the police seemed to have lost control and were trying to push protesters back. The police had started to filter people into a side street off Cornhill. There were a few stragglers who were just walking through between the police and protesters. Mr Tomlinson was one of those."

The police tactics during the G20 protests were condemned in the aftermath of the demonstrations. The clearance of a climate camp along Bishopsgate by riot police with batons and dogs after nightfall on Wednesday came in for particular criticism.

Protesters marched to Bethnal Green police station in east London yesterday to demand a public inquiry into Mr Tomlinson's death.

stop photoshop journalism

not sure if this is up anywhere but...

06.04.2009 12:25

have a look at this

http://www.prisonplanet.com/unseen-footage-riot-police-attack-peaceful-protesters-at-g20.html

avo1

More police medics handing out beatings

07.04.2009 00:19

Oh the irony:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/amjamjazz/3406353191/

Whack

Guardian release video of police assault

07.04.2009 17:20

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/video-g20-police-assault

jay

Footage of Ian Tomlinson being attacked by police

07.04.2009 18:04

Have just seen this on the Guardian. It clearly shows Ian making his way home with his back to the police when one comes up behind him, hits him in the leg with an asp and then pushes him to the ground. They're not going to be able to talk there way out of this one. Check it out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/07/video-g20-police-assault

Loxton

Several things

07.04.2009 19:32

1) Horses and dogs. While I don't like seeing animals hurt or injured, police horses and dogs are as much part of their armoury as truncheons and tasers. They stop being cuddly nice animals the minute they start being used by the police. So, if something were to happen to a police horse or a police dog at a demo, I wouldn't be too fussed. However, everyone remembers Sefton, one of the horses injured by the IRA in Hyde Park in 1983; no one can recall the names of the dead soldiers. It is therefore somewhat counterproductive to do anything to police animals as the outrage the cops and media would generate would override any benefit gained.

2) Police medics. If police medics want to be treated as neutrals, they should act like neutrals. Instead, they are all too often the most violent of the lot. I've never seen them providing meaningful treatment to anyone apart from cops. Put real medics out, as real neutrals. Cop medics are fair game.

3) The FIT's role in this sorry tale has thus far been overlooked. There are clearly a number of FIT nearby when Ian Tomlinson was attacked. Quite a number of the FIT, of the CO variety rather than the part-time borough members, are tactical advisers, and as such well aware of what is and what is not permitted in terms of police use of force. The FIT are, apart from the TSG, the most experienced public order officers the Met has. That they apparently stood by and watched while incidents of this sort occurred are a tacit admission (as if any more were needed!) that such attacks were authorised by senior Met officers, up to and including Robert Broadhurst. Now we know what they're going to be like after his taking over responsibility for public order in London, we'll know what to expect in future - and respond accordingly.

upthera

policemen

07.04.2009 20:53

i think there are a lot of people here who seem to want to work with the police. everyone has got an opinion of what how they should be run and managed. Perhaps this is an option, get a job there and do the job how you think should be done.

max

Taking Action Against the Police

07.04.2009 21:28

I feel that what happened with regard police action at the G20 protests on Wednesday was appalling, particularly in light of the recent media footage which has come to light with regard Ian Tomlinson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csCbRLz31-Q

It's my opinion that all of those of us that were present in the Kettle and/or were victims of police violence that day should be entitled to take legal action against the police. Their actions were nothing short of provocative, and even those individuals who responded by hurling missiles, in my opinion were entirely justified in their reaction to what potentially could be considered a serious breach of human rights.

I was horrified by what I witnessed on the day, and I am not an anarchist, or even a hardcore protestor. I am an average 9-5 office worker, who decided to travel to london to protest the loss of most of the money I paid into my pension. I was treated to numerous baton charges, rough dismissive treatment, refused access to food and water, and held in illegal detention for 8 hours.

Towards the end of the day my patience ran out, and as a result, my behaviour may have become questionable, but under the circumstances, the treatment and psychological impact of events I witnessed, particularly the shock of the injuries I saw meted out to other protesters and assisted in providing first aid to, I make no apology for any resultant behaviour. I believe that all those who were present should organise legal representation, and take a decisive group action against those who were responsible for treating us all with utter and absolute contempt, and with no regard for our wellbeing. Regardless of whether they were "Just following Orders" !!!!

Glenn

The Met online complaint

08.04.2009 01:47

The Met: "Unhappy with the service? We would like to hear from you!"

Dillon

BBC R4 coverage 8 Apr - worse than usual

08.04.2009 08:09

It won't come as a surprise to anyone here that the establishment coverage on BBC R4 this morning - especially Evan Davies who openly described the protests of the day as "unhelpful" and guided his Lib Dem guest not to condemn police behaviour because available footage was "wobbly". A softball interview proceeded with an unofficial police spokesman, who was given plenty of opportunity to dismiss a section of the protesters as violent, out of context as usual.

I dare say we can expect something from Media Lens on the appalling MSM performance on this issue - they won't have a shortage of material to sift through.

Jon
Homepage: http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/how_to_listen_to_today/default.stm

Non Co-Operation is Essential

08.04.2009 09:56

We cannot continue providing the police with information for protests and demonstrations otherwise we continue to risk similar tactics becoming more and more commonplace (what am I talking about, it is commonplace)

Whether it is the Gaza demos, G20 protests or the protests regarding the genocide in Sri Lanka, the police's response is absurdly confrontational. The police's way of ending the Climate Camp protest is such evidence of this, particularly after the Police actually stated that they saw Climate Camp as non-violent, peaceful protesters and yet they use force to remove them.

Enough is enough.

BobBob
mail e-mail: bobbob5482@googlemail.com
Homepage: http://beatsbombsandbooze@blogspot.com

Non-cooperation?

08.04.2009 11:35

As I mentioned above, there are a number of FIT officers, whose remit is to harass protesters, shown on the video of Mr Tomlinson's assault by the police. Their task is to observe and record the actions of demonstrators, to gather information about protestors which is then put onto the CRIMINT database. For many years demonstrators have put up with this, as a result of which the police have been able to get away with bullying people without any real response from the majority of protestors. Some people have responded to their provocative tactics - as can be seen from the Fitwatch blog.

But if non-cooperation proposed by the previous comment is to have any effect, then the FIT must be opposed by more and more people. Their role has been under scrutiny, in part from the policing of last year's Climate Camp and also from their treatment of journalists. But their treatment of demonstrators over about the last fifteen years has come in for much less scrutiny. Some years ago, when I first encountered the FIT, one of them admitted to me that he was essentially a political policeman, the sort of thing I hope you'd associate more with the former Soviet bloc than a so-called liberal democracy like the UK. That this abomination has been tolerated for so long is frankly only possible due to the supine nature of most demonstrators who seem to have had little concern for the way they're policed as long as they aren't batoned off the streets.

So, rather than faff about in another incident of 'anarchist dither', the next time you're on a demonstration, perhaps non-cooperation could take the form of harassing the harassers. Make it difficult for them to identify and photograph the people they want to. Rather than letting them follow people about without opposition, follow them. Stand behind them when they're having a huddle and listen in to their discussions. Photograph them and note down their numbers. As Corporal Wilson said, they don't like it up 'em!

Equally, the level 2 (public order trained police from the boroughs) cops should come in for attention as should the TSG. TSG shoulder numbers have a 'U' on, and the first number indicates which of the five regional bases they come from, eg U3455 is from 3TSG, based in Chadwell Heath, U2345 is from 2TSG, based in North Finchley. They're culpable in many assaults on demonstrations as even a cursory look at video footage of the Tamil demo in Westminster will show.

The main problem which underlies all of this is the almost wilful ignorance which people have about the police. If you don't think to look at their numbers you'll never be able to identify a policeman after the event. And if they're not wearing numbers challenge them about it, and get a photo. If things are kicking off, and you happen to be behind police lines, photograph their backs as afterwards the information there will enable you to work out where they're from, eg CW is City of Westminster, GD is Hackney and EK is Camden, and in some instances what they're doing, eg EG is evidence gatherer.

Useful sources of information are the ACPO Manual on keeping the peace (

http://www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/keeping_the_peace.pdf), the Police and Contabulary Almanac (available at good reference libraries), the US Army manual on civil disturbance operations (www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf This goes through the continuum of public order tactics used in the US, many of which are similar to ones used here) and the various police resources on the internet, such as 'The Job', published by the Met and the National Police Improvement Agency's Digest, which goes through updates in the law and other matters of police interest.

Acquainting yourself with important information about the police allows you to get one step ahead of what they're going to do. Given that the Met police seem to have determined a more violent and aggressive policy, it's vital that demonstrators know their rights and, as Sun Tzu said, know their enemy. If we're to get anything from this awful death, it ought to be a determination never to let this happen again and to be in a position to get evidence out as soon as possible. It should also be a determination to end the situation of the last few years in which the police have walked all over us.

upthera

Worried about my daughter caught up in Police Violence

08.04.2009 12:10

My wife I had arranged to meet our daughter Sophie on the day this man died, she was on the protest and we were going to meet her when we had finished work at about 3.30pm outside Cannon Street. We tried for 5 hours to get to her but could not because everywhere we went there was Police. We gave up in the end as my wife was getting upset at the Police presence as the riot Police were very intimidating and we got several worrying texts from Sophie.

This is the first text at 4.02pm
"They're reinforcing the line and pushing us back opposite the junction with Cannon St... Don't think we're be able to get through... But no exit [...]"

Second text 4.24pm
"UPDATE: They just got their batons out & pushed us back again but we're not hurt... They've abandoned 1 of their lines between BofE, the other protesters & us... The anarchists have commandeered a flagpole and flew the anarchist flag... Those crazy anarchists! * laughs* Just sitting on the pavement now... XxX "

After this 3rd text my wife got very upset. 4.43

"they just smashed some little girl up... Didn't see her face but she was being carried and was all limp... It's pissed a lot of people off... XxX "

We left for home at 8.30 Sophie didn't get home till after midnight, she is just a young girl who cares what goes on in our society and is really angry with the way these money people have made a mess of the world with their greed.

They let them out eventually 4 at a time Sophie told me that there were old people and women with children there but the Police would not them let them out. They had them corralled like animals..

She was protesting peacefully she did not attack anyone or smash anything up but she was keep for over seven hours against her will, her details were asked for and she was photographed, no doubt she is of their database but she has committed no crime
What I experienced that day makes me think we are not very far from living in a Police state if not already in one.

Thanks,

Sophie's Dad,

Arthur Shaw

Arthur Shaw
mail e-mail: a.shaw27@ntlword.com

To Mr Shaw

08.04.2009 12:24

Dear Mr Shaw

If your daughter wants to go on another demonstration, she should take a friend. Then there's another line of communication and also they can look out for each other. Few demonstrations are as contentious as the ones against the G20, but it is always advisable to have someone with you, for company if nothing else.

All the best

upthera

upthera

Heart attack?

08.04.2009 12:57

See the Home Office pathologist says Ian died from a heart attack and the BBC is still bangin on about poss links between weak hearts and police tactics (!). But, I heard an interview with a 3rd yr medical student who was with him as he lay dying. She said he was laughing and confused but kept saying he was fine, and had no difficulty breathing nor did he complain of chest pains. Then he stopped responding and the cops cleared them away before they would have begun CPR.
Now, I'm not a med student and know nowt about heart attacks, but it doesn't sound anything like the symptoms I've heard of. What do other, more knowledeable people think?

anon

"Media lies"

08.04.2009 13:01

Curious that - like with the De Menezes case - it was still the mainstream media that were the ones to, erm, uncovered what happened, including the crucial video. And once the details emerged, they were covered, with gusto, by all the press, right-wing papers like the Daily Mail included.

It's interesting also that many of the best witnesses - who the Guardian have used to put together their excellent report today - were mainstream photographers and journos. That's not to say that there wasn't a lot of crap in the bottle-throwing articles the day after the death - but those articles, for the most part cited that they were based on what the police had said at the time and would have been written a few hours after the incident. By the following day some papers, including The Guardian were already publishing stories suggesting that the police had been misleading.

So how accurate was the coverage on Indymedia? Well, from some of the eye witness accounts, or "my friend saw.." accounts, on here you'd have gathered that: bottles were thrown; the victim was a protester; the victim was in his 30s; he was bleeding at the head; he was inside a kettle when it happened; he was wearing a t-shirt that associated him with the protest movement. And so on.

Norvello

'punishment', by detention

08.04.2009 13:07

Why was Mr Tomlinson not allowed to walk through Police lines?

Because the Police had begun their pre-planned collective punishment of protestors by forming a cordon. Anyone who was in the area was, in Police eyes, going to be punished by detention. The Police, naturally, give a different interpretation of the tactic.

Thats what happened, and as a result of the tactic, a man died.

was there

good journalist & good banker

08.04.2009 14:24

Norvello is confusing Indymedia comments with an actual paper newspaper, whereas it is more like a newspaper staff meeting. Of course initially posters here were trying to work out if this fatality was one of the many assaults that they had witnessed. This isn't inaccurate coverage, it is investigation and very necessary investigation given how inaccurate the police cover-up was. It is mistaken to berate the initial speculation while the Guardian had the good sense to openly appeal for witnesses here.
Also, all due credit to the fund manager who took the footage and forwarded it, that was a very good thing to do.

Danny

To Arthur Shaw

08.04.2009 15:01

You should send your comment on to your MP and ask them what they intend to do about it. Your daughter should do the same.

A N Other

Fair point

08.04.2009 15:41

That's a fair analogy Danny. But what the chatter illustrates is that there's a lot of conflicting information floating around directly after an event from witnesses. As with De Menezes, where some of the most damaging claims were made to the press by confused witnesses - "He jumped the barricade!" "He had wires protruding from his jacket!" and so on, which unintentionally helped the police cover-up. Though it does illustrate why the press should be more open about citing sources and not leaping to conclusions.

Guess I'm just pointing out the irony of there being lots of postings criticising MSM coverage of the event next to articles titled "The truth of the IPCC" which are - oh, looky here - reposts from The Guardian...

Norvello

New footage - C4/ITN tonight 7pm

08.04.2009 16:04

Actual footage of police baton attack on Ian on ITN tonight. See Krishnan Guru-Murthy's Twitter feed for updates: twitter.com/krishgm

Tim

National demo against police violence & aggression towards peaceful protesters

08.04.2009 17:33

In Jacqui Smith`s home town of Redditch! Sounds like fun, I`ll be there.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/04/426961.html

Stuart

New footage from ITN plus Edinburgh demo

08.04.2009 18:57

ITN have released footage that also shows that cop hitting Ian Tomlinson with his baton.

http://www.channel4.com/news/article.jsp?id=3076487

Also, a demonstration calling for an end to police killing has been called in Edinburgh.

http://www.indymediascotland.org/node/15258

Fabbri

Masked

08.04.2009 19:09

In the newly released ITN footage it can be clearly seen that the offending officer, the one that attacked Tomlinson, is wearing a black tubular mask over his neck and face, none of his colleagues in the background are wearing similar masks, are they standard issue? The officer retreats after attacking Tomlinson and is videoed adjusting his mask, ensuring his whole face is obscured. He struck a left handed blow, so it would seem he was left handed.

James

Second piece of footage

08.04.2009 19:25

In addition to the Guardian's video this morning, there's a second clip which shows a police officer hitting Mr. Tomlinson - its not a shove out the way so much as a full-on blow to the back. I've seem police brutality before, but this is really chilling - Ian's walking with his hands in his pockets, doesn't even see the hit coming, there was no reason at all to use this much force. Even if the police wanted him to end up on the floor, this looks like gratuitous violence:

You have to watch it a couple of times to make out whats going on:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2009/apr/08/g20-police-assault-ian-tomlinson-video

Lets hope the media doesn't let this drop. The Met say an officer has "came forward" for the attack, but they're bound to blather something about a suspicion of terrorism (conveniently off-footage), and all the bastard's thug friends will corroborate.

:(

satsuma

RE: Masked

08.04.2009 19:55

As far as I know they are standard issue. A lot of the time you see riot cops wearing them, but I don't think they have to. I guess its down to personal preference but you have to question why some chose to wear them and some don't. Probably to look more intimidating or because they don't want to be recognised.

mike

Talking to a senior officer

08.04.2009 21:50

On that C4 video, they point out the cop who whacked Mr Tomlinson went over to talk to "a more senior officer" - who appears to be a member of the FIT. Will that FIT officer step forwards? After all, they have some searching questions to answer...

upthera

No Justice No Peace

08.04.2009 22:05

Usual scare mongering and back tracking going on - policeman involved in the recent death in London will be interviewed asap - no idea given as to when that is - police get away with too much too often I know from own experience what the bastards are like they must not get away with this yet again

George Coombs

BBC Coverage.

08.04.2009 23:26

I have to say, I think this affair has exposed the BBC as being politically compromised in a HUGE way.

First off, they don't give the breaking story any significant position at all. Then when they realise the other news outlets are running with it as top billing, they follow suit.

Then, the police conveniently conduct a series of raids brought forward, we're told, by a 'security leak' (Hmm). The account of a possible murder/manslaughter by British police, along with a subsequent cover-up and attempt to implicate protestors in the death is thus knocked off the top spot.

But this isn't what makes me the most angry - different outlets have different editorial stances... the BBC might honestly believe that 'terror arrests' are more important than the death of Ian Tomlinson. But what then is the excuse for the G20 story gradually, over a period of hours sliding further and further down the list of stories?

As of right now, these stories are further up the ordering than Ian Tomlinson's death:

Terror Raids follow Files 'Blunder'.
PC Guilty Over Girl's Crash Death
Man Charged Over 1983 Murder Case
Drama As US Crew Recapture Vessel (If I remember correctly, this news story broke AFTER th assault footage came to light).

Also the BBC Have Your Say topic has been nearly taken over by 'Police need more powers!' 'It was his own fault!' 'If there had been no protests, he'd still be alive! Crusties killed him!' nutters - where have they come from, when even the Daily Mail comments section is roundly criticising the assault in the strongest terms?

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but I simply cannot comprehend how the BBC, this country's biggest source of news, doesn't see the potential manslaughter of an innocent man by british police - simply because he is in the vicinity of a protest against the capitalist government and thus deserving of such treatment - as so unimportant.

I lost a lot of respect for the BBC today. They are at worst complicit, at best spineless. Utterly spineless.

No-one Special

Correction to the above.

08.04.2009 23:30

Above, it shoud say I believe the US ship recovery story broke BEFORE the assault footage came to light.

No-one Special

media bias in terrorism raid stories

09.04.2009 01:05

Theres an interesting story on Scotland IMC about media bias relating to the coverage of Islamic terrorism and fascist terrorism.

http://www.indymediascotland.org/node/15259

Fabbri

Craig Murray's analysis - worth a read

09.04.2009 08:30

He may be a bit Establishment for some here, but he's getting more radical by the minute, and his analysis is excellent. Highly recommended.

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/04/lies_and_innuen.html

Jon

earlier video shows same officer assaulting woman at same spot

09.04.2009 13:29

He's right at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRf9m1XefXI

ACAB

correction

09.04.2009 14:48

[quote]He's right at the end:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRf9m1XefXI [End Quote]

I don't see him the only person I can see is someone wearing a sleeveless blue jacket that's not him he was wearing a long sleeve grey t-shirt and a blue t-shirt over the top. If it's somewhere else can you give us the timing? Thanks

Dave

Re: correction

09.04.2009 20:02

Yep, I think your right Dave, it isn't him. Not like there was a shortage of violent thuggish cops were there?

Mike

Police for Protecting us..

09.04.2009 23:55

Police for Protecting us, what a shame, they didn’t protect us,
they protect the rich the one who has the Power.

Chalee
mail e-mail: admin@scientufo.com
Homepage: http://www.scientufo.com

assault officer was Met TSG

10.04.2009 11:44

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6068850.ece

A Met police spokesman said: "An MPS TSG Police Constable has been suspended, effective immediately, in relation to the IPCC investigation into the death of Ian Tomlinson"

Fabbri

correction?

10.04.2009 12:26

"I don't see him the only person I can see is someone wearing a sleeveless blue jacket that's not him he was wearing a long sleeve grey t-shirt and a blue t-shirt over the top. If it's somewhere else can you give us the timing? Thanks"

I don't follow, are you describing what Ian Tomlinson was wearing or a cop?

The cop with his jacket tucked in who throws a woman to the floor appear to be the same cop who assaulted Ian Tomlinson minutes later, on the same street.

ACAB

response to upthera: animal abuse is always wrong

10.04.2009 12:40

@upthera:
"1) Horses and dogs. While I don't like seeing animals hurt or injured, police horses and dogs are as much part of their armoury as truncheons and tasers. They stop being cuddly nice animals the minute they start being used by the police. So, if something were to happen to a police horse or a police dog at a demo, I wouldn't be too fussed. However, everyone remembers Sefton, one of the horses injured by the IRA in Hyde Park in 1983; no one can recall the names of the dead soldiers. It is therefore somewhat counterproductive to do anything to police animals as the outrage the cops and media would generate would override any benefit gained."

Just because the cops are abusing them doesn't make it right for us to do likewise. Anyone who abuses an animal deserves a beating. Animals shouldn't be harmed for their own sake, not because it would be bad publicity.

I don't have a problem with the IRA targeting politicians, police or occupying forces, but attacking innocent humans or animals is just wrong.

anon

reasons

10.04.2009 18:28

There only one thing behind the protests: Bad sportsmanship. A ruthless minority of people seems to have forgotton certain good old fashion virtue - they just can't stand seeing the other fella win. If these people just played the game they would get a lot more out of life.

I understand people's concern over the policing - the taxpayer always wants value for money. Thats why they should always insist on the principle of information retrievable charging. Its absolutely right and fair that those found guilty should pay for their periods of detention and the information retrieval procedures used in their interrogation.

slight

@anon

10.04.2009 23:17

"Just because the cops are abusing them doesn't make it right for us to do likewise. Anyone who abuses an animal deserves a beating. Animals shouldn't be harmed for their own sake, not because it would be bad publicity.

I don't have a problem with the IRA targeting politicians, police or occupying forces, but attacking innocent humans or animals is just wrong."

Nowadays cop horses charging crowds are thankfully rare. I've been charged by horses, down Charing Cross Road, and it is not a pleasant experience. In such circumstances, I think that what the Millwall fans did to a PSU of cops on horses some years ago is certainly justified. No one's suggesting whacking horses as horses, simply defending themselves. However, no matter how justified, the state would make a big show of injured horses or dogs, painting people who were forced to defend themselves as barbarians. While I have some time for animal rights, in a riot situation I hope I'm not alone when I consider that I have the right to defend myself from police attack as I see fit, and if that means kicking a dog to stop it from biting me, then I'll kick the dog. I hope no one's suggesting going out and doing something to dogs or horses for their own sake, simply talking about defending themselves. Maybe you wouldn't defend yourself from a cop dog or horse. That's your right. In most circumstances attacking another person isn't justified. But in those circumstances where it's a choice between defending yourself and getting injured, I - and I hope most other people - would defend themselves. I wouldn't suggest what George above is seemingly suggesting, setting out to injure animals.

upthera

Animals as tools of the state

11.04.2009 07:07

I would never target a state animal, but I would not hesitate to defend myself against them. I wouldn't hesitate to hurt a dog that was not being called off me, nor hesitate to prevent a cavalry charge by any means necessary.

If we are not willing to defend ourselves against state animals then the state has just found the perfect way to control us.

Animal rights, or nay, it's just crazy to suddenly become pacifistic just because the thing attacking you is an animal. It's like saying you wouldn't defend yourself against an attack by a child soldier or some other coerced or forced aggressor.

anon

Sonic horse repeller

11.04.2009 12:15

Animal Aid estimate that 375 horses are killed by the Horse Racing business each year, I think the on-course death toll is about 180.

Criminals brought down a British race horse that was winning a race with a beam of sound from the crowd. They had a device hidden in binoculars, powered by a car battery in a backpack and inaudible to humans. That was dangerous because the horse was running but that horse was uninjured despite dropping like it had been shot, and the other horses around it being unaffected. Electronic Times published the simple circuit after the trial, if I remember right it was basically just an amplified tone generator ( flip-flop oscillators and amps), I can't remember the frequency but that'd be easy to test.

Rather than a directed beam, an multidirectional ultrasonic sound source at the correct frequency should deter horses from approaching an area so it could be used defensively, especially in tight city streets that trap the noise. Like a souped up version of the sonic mole / cat / rodent repellants, the same thing might work with police dogs too though doubtless on another frequency. The army and police have new devices like this for using on protestors, and so used defensively I can't see it as immoral or violent.

Danny

Re: Sonic warfare

11.04.2009 18:33

If such a device was used against a police horse and the rider fell and died as a result, you can be sure the protester that wielded it would be up on charges of murder.

Anon

Sound system. Tone generator. Force field.

11.04.2009 21:09

You wouldn't 'wield' it. You would place it, or perhaps several of them. It is a comparitively safe solution for dealing with horse charges on peaceful protestors. It is probably even a safe solution for pigs, as the aim wouldn't be to stun or spook the horse with a sudden blast but rather to gradually raise the noise to uncomfortable levels until they start to back away from it gradually, not suddenly blast them. You could use it to defend yourself by stunning a charging horse, but really, if someone is charging a horse is charging at you then they obviously don't care about your safety.
Anyone with the most basic qualification in electronics would be able to build it cheaply. Still, it was just a suggestion. Nowadays race courses have sensors to detect this sort of shennanigins. I can't find a web link as this was about 1986-1989.

This next tip is something I was told, not something I can verify. If you are in a crowd being broken up by slow moving mounted riders, stick to it's haunches, outside rear legs, and move with it. Neither the rider or the horse can knock you over. Stay away front it's front end and don't move directly behind it. If that ever works for anyone in real-life then please say so here.

Danny

Re: Horses

12.04.2009 06:12

Having worked professionally with horses for years, I can verify that if you're trying to avoid being knocked over the best place to be is at the side, however police horses have a stick wielding thug mounted on them, and they are also trained to walk sideways and lead with their hind quarters as they turn to maintain distance between the horse and protesters.

Police horses are very dangerous animals because most horses will only trample a human when scared, a police horse has been trained to trample you even when it is calm.

Anon

Tone generator

12.04.2009 12:25

Anything above 20kHz would be beyond human range- going below 20Hz is most definitely not an option.

The problem with using omni- or semi-directional amplification is a simple matter of physics: the wider the radius of sonic waves will require ever more power of amplification; add to that greater wattage would also be required to pump out the tone(s) across a great enough distance to keep the horses at bay (further complicated by absorption coefficients & (standing waves), if there is no clear line of sight)- think about public address systems rather than megaphone amounts of electricity.

The problem with the 'long-throw high output' approach is that physical harm could occur to the animals within a certain radius, since Decibel Sound-pressure Levels increase the closer you get to the source. And aural damage would occur and who knows what else may occur to any other animals within that frequency response range. I'm guessing to that the Proximity effect may also figure in this- but as to how much a 20+KHz tone could drop in pitch over what distance in what atmospheric conditions and the likelihood of it maintaining a dangerous DBSpl are beyond my ken.

Also, very serious measures to buffer against any signal interruption that would introduce transient bursts (and a very steep high pass filter too) into the equipment would also have to be implemented.

But of course, if it did backfire and caused a death, manslaughter would be a likely charge.

Not Eddy's Son

Anti-trampling alarm

12.04.2009 14:46

You would only be making noise and so drawing power when the horses approached. You can run this for as long as you can run your sound system ( speaker/amp). You'd need to check what dB you were actually throwing out but you could do that at an audible friequency with a standard sound meter, do it just too loud for you to be comfortable with it and then crank up the frequency. Police horses are trained against noise but I doubt they would deliberately deafen themselves. If demonstrated once then even the threat of this tactic may negate the use of horses as crowd control.

Once you find the right frequency, you could modify rape alarms for that frequency. Not loud enough to stun a horse, but lots of them would be loud enough to bother the beasts. They would have to prosecute you for a silent breech of the peace. If a cop has a heart attack when beating you up you'll get done for manslaughter, big deal. Unless they have footage of you placing a device or arrest you possessing it then you're anonymous.

The TSG have tasers today but foriegn police forces are already using 150dB L-RAD as crowd control.

Even when I had the kit to test this theory easily I couldn't bring myself to test it on an actual animal, although my mates band did do some similar experiments on hippies using my function generator. I'm just saying it is a better solution than considering hurting police horses physically. It does work in practice though, the gang that did it on the race course were only caught because of an unrelated drugs deal. The horse was well in front though, a pair of binoculars wouldn't have been able to focus that beam very tightly.

Danny

Panthera Leo Merda

12.04.2009 15:48

Apologies for getting anal about a minor detail, with hindsight I should have posted a different article just about police horses. I just remembered one final dubious tip though an activist told me, all horses are 'shit-scared' of the acrid smell of lion manure which zoos sell.

"It's instructive to note that any loudspeaker of equal size will generate a beam of the same directivity as LRAD. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_range_acoustic_device

Danny

LRAD

12.04.2009 17:46

Well judging by that wikipedia page it would be illegal to use that NYPD LRAD in the UK in a domestic setting under HSE rules... unless of course they could ensure that no one could possibly come into to the 120dBspl range.

I think you misunderstand the technology. LRAD uses an array of small tweeters (concentrating the narrow radius of the small "diaphragm") . This doesn't mean that you will achieve the same result with a single hi-fi tweeter. It means you will need a whole array of them, aligned very precisely and amplified in parallel. It also means that the same problems of amplification/distance/electricity/damage & pain apply- the latter point is borne out by the note of 140+dBspl @ 1m (equals physical damage and much pain.)

The US system weighs 20kg, which I suspect excludes the power supply... and I assume it includes the power amp, but isn't exactly portable. A buskers guitar amp can be run off a car battery for probably long enough, but that is operating largely between 100hz-4kHz and only over a very short distance...

A directional array would have to be at least mounted above head height to be optimal and be far enough away from ears to prevent damage.

Again, the problem with amplification is power vs distance. Rape alarms work on the principle of a loud mid range harmonically beating tone. Such devices wouldn't run for very long and be loud on a small battery, they aren't particularly directional either (note the directionality of sound lowers with frequency).

Unless you want to attack people around you will need to operate at above 20kHz and have a shorter distance drop-off in signal power and then still have to contend with the problem of 120+dBspl risking injuring people. Switching on the devices in lower volume closer proximity bursts could cause horses and other animal within range to act unpredictably.

Doesn't matter how you argue it. Your problems will always be the same and will worsen the greater the distance you want to direct the signal and the more directional you want it.

Here's a much better site about LRAD than that wiki page:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/lrad.htm/printable

Not Eddy's Son

SRAD

13.04.2009 11:53

I wasn't proposing developing a crowd control weapon or a sonic rifle! You aren't going to face horse charges from 360 degrees at once. None of the problems you mention seem important or unavoidable. I do claim it would be easy to block a city street to approaching horses using one or devices, either carried or operated remotely, and the biggest expense would be the car battery. I reckon any activist with basic electronics, access to a horse and a function generator could produce this in a week. I'm more worried about the morality than the practicality, it already was done and dusted 20 years ago. Say you just used exactly the same device but with a dial to ramp up the volume slowly. I've written about LRAD in a bit more depth than than is suitable for this thread if you think I don't understand the technology. If I remember correctly the race-horse device didn't even have a speaker, it simply the funneled the amplified noise given off by a pair of relays being turned on and off. If you were to use a speaker, it would have to be high enough spec - or big enough - to reproduce the frequency of the circuit which (again if I remember correctly) was far higher than 20kHz. If it is then the rape alarm speakers would have to be upgraded before that idea would work, but that isn't a big job.

I am annoyed but I can't find any reference to the horse race circuit on the net. In fact the only references to the story refer to it as a rumour that swept the internet. At the time, the footage of the horse was on the main TV news, the story was covered and the follow-up improvements at race-courses was covered. I was an apprentice design engineer when the circuit was published so I appreciated the circuit because it was only a handful of components and the circuit didn't make any sense in terms of standard electronics design rules, it was a bundle of mistakes. My first thought on seeing it was 'That doesn't get connected there, and feeding that into that is only going to generate ...noise'. The term 'Doh!' had yet to be invented. The old 'black-box' device that people used to turn their elecricity meters backwards is simply a side-wired step-down transformer, again, not something any sane person would design, you'd have to be crazy or genius to try that first.

Danny

What is NOT happening

13.04.2009 17:31

While the issues raised by the policing tactics are of vital importance, and rightly should be discussed openly and honestly, what has NOT HAPPENED is the open and honest public discussion of the issues that brought the climate campers to the Carbon Trading Exchange in the first place.

In terms of how Government and Business works, that is 'mission accomplished'.

Silence on the key issues has been maintained.

The violence directed intentionally at the Climate Campers AND the issues they were there to highlight are inextricably linked.

Those issues are both about violence as a tool of 'policy' and as an instrument of 'business'..... the culture we have been born into is founded upon the rationalisation of and the justification of violence against all creatures that refuse to comply or cannot be tamed.

http://www.corneilius.net/pages/blifevideo.htm

corelu minous

horses - tactics

13.04.2009 20:57

would be ace if such an alarm could be made and supplied to activists.
some important things to consider in the mean times tho.

1) if the horses cant get to you, they cant charge you. barricades are good for this make them thick and high.
2) the police are mental... they "love" their horses and have strong emotional bonds with them... but they will put them through any danger without a care, and if the horse doesn't comply, their cunts. I've seen policemen beating their own horses with their truncheons.
3) the rider is a bastard, the horse is not. If you can take the rider off the horse (or prevent him from getting on in first place) without harming the horse, the situation is over.
4) once the policeman is off the horse, the horse will be scared, everyone needs to shut the fuck up, stop moving quickly, and someone needs to calmly take the reins and escort the horse out of the area, if at a camp like climate camp, maybe just put the horse in a field to graze for a while, but if in a riot, returning it to the cops is probably a good idea, they wont re-use the horse, as each has a special rider, and the rider is on the floor in the middle of this riot.
this may also have psychological effects on the cops, remember the plod are trained to be bastards, and no amount of kindness will ever undo this, BUT you can reduce their levels of adrenaline, and make them less able to hate you by showing them something they understand. remember though, they ARE bastards, you wont ever change that.

jay

arreter (french), to stop

13.04.2009 21:53

Section 60: blah blah, bad folks, combatants by default, blah blah, what Geneva convention. Black shirts, blah, blah, peer presure to the point of murder, blah blah, tromple those peeps. Blah, blah, blah...

Power Fixation: The desire to express any power given by any bully, with any weapon or tool.

It could be said that some transparency in the windows of RBS was baddly needed.

Does law come before order?

pinkynperky

Citizen powers of section 60

13.04.2009 22:12

Subsequent to the powers of arrest a citizen has to prevent breach of law, it seems that section 60 grants the right of citizens to detain by boundry any number of people if but a single one is suspected of being criminal.

How will this play out?

pinkynperky

Only fools and horses

13.04.2009 22:52

Well, I suspect the original story was an urban myth anyway. There are indeed feasible ways to incapacitate animals/humans using sound. But you'd have to modify and transport a serious concert PA system, and face charges for violence...so not really practical.

But even if the idea were true and the method of delivery wasn't the sonic equivalent of Rohipnol delivered at 20mph, and voltage-stable high-end VCO ICs weren't so expensive, and you could really have a portable and effective device that didn't cost the same as a second-hand car just buying the industrial testing gear for... I think it would be reckless stupidity to spook horses in the close proximity of bystanders. I'd think twice about spooking a Shetland Pony let alone a great big police horse that is quite capable of easily killing- and I'm quite sure they don't bombard their horses with arcane harmonic assaults as part of their training.

And it would also be handing the police the case for employing LRAD on a big plate.

Reckless stupidity aside, I think it's ethically dubious to be stressing the animals out deliberately, or putting them into a situation where the plod will likely crop the living daylights out them.

And, I also think the use of horses by the plod should be banned. It's basically an intimidation tactic and having seen police horses in a riot situation, they can get very stressed despite their training. And unfortunately they also get abused by people pulling bridles and by general airborne detritus hitting them. So, it's cruel to even bring them into that environment.

The physical barriers sound like a far more sensible tactic.

Not Mr Ed's Son

Jay

14.04.2009 12:26

Your advice is sensible.

"would be ace if such an alarm could be made and supplied to activists."

Shops sell a uni-directional dog repeller for £15, it emits 125db at point, 25kHz. It should be able to be mod'ed to a higher volume or frequency with a slider control, perhaps easier than upgrading a £2 rape alarm. I'll eventually get around to buying a dog repeller to open it up. If I manage to mod it or a rape alarm for a suitable frequency and power then I'll post the details here for somebody else to test.
Even unmodified, a line of people with dog-repellers is a wall of sound to dogs and horses equivalent to that many rape alarms are to us. These devices are legal but the following passage best indicates the moral dilemma.

"Horses are able to hear sounds in the ultrasonic range which are inaudible to humans. As a result, they would be able to hear those ultrasonic repellers which emit sounds between 20 kHz and 40 kHz, depending on how loud and how close the repeller was to the horse. However. horses are about 40 dB less sensitive to these sounds than most rodents so it is possible for pest repellers to emit sounds that would be quite audible to rodents and yet faint or inaudible to horses. Finally, the effect of deafness in horses is of particular concern. Not only might a hearing loss affect a horse's ability to respond to voice commands, but it could also interfere with the vocal communications which horses use in mating and in rearing their young."

Danny

Sonic Binoculars horse nobbling

14.04.2009 12:54

>Well, I suspect the original story was an urban myth anyway.

So why try to distract from it so repeatedly? In fact, I did just find an unimpeachable reference to 'The Sonic Binoculars horse nobbling case', in the CV of the defending lawyer. He lists is as a higher profile case than Charlie Kray, and it was on the TV news regularly, but the story has effectively been buried and forgotten.

"In the criminal courts he has defended in many of the most highprofile jury trials of the past 35 years. Examples include Roger Levitt (white collar fraud) the Brinksmat trials, R v Rosenthal (The Stamford Hill child sex abuse case involving Hasidic Jews), R v Laming (The Sonic Binoculars horse nobbling case), Charlie Kray (last of the Kray brothers)..."

http://www.chambersandpartners.co.uk/PersonProfile.aspx?cpk=230802&ssid=29106

Danny

Why?

16.04.2009 08:29

"So why try to distract from it so repeatedly?"

Because your idea is completely stupid, carrying a high risk of endangering others by deliberately trying to freak out animals that are easily capable of killing a human being- as if stressing animals wasn't ethically dubious enough, you are adding to that the reckless endangerment of innocent people.

But I note that you aren't even prepared to carry out your own rash ideas.

Says it all.

Not Mr Ed's Son

some pics on Flickr1

16.04.2009 11:00

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37335522@N02/sets/72157616709266521/

M
mail e-mail: m@s-kollective.com

Horselover Fats

16.04.2009 11:17

I am ready to accept your apology for implying I was lying about the Sonic Binocular case. As soon as you are big enough to make it. And I want to thank you for forcing me to hunt down proof, I would have lost interest by now if you'd just ignored me. I can see why that case has been so buried and forgotten, it really isn't useful to the establishment is it? It's not just the police who ride on horses after all.

I've access to the minimal kit needed to test this electronically and acoustically so I am not going to test this on animals, mainly because I'll never be likely to face a police horse charge myself. I'll probably piss off a few local squirrels testing it's audible range but I won't frighten them let alone deafen them. However, I have been attacked by mistreated dogs before and I would userather scare an attacking dog with noise rather than than use physical self-defence. I find your faux concern for police horse safety rather dubious - do you appeal for a protest to be silent every time a police horse appears? To them, this is just more noise. What I am aiming for is a cheap device that can be used safely to deter horses and dogs from approaching, not a stun gun. And hopefully, if it is successfully demonstrated once then all the police horses will be retired to green pastures.

Talking about stun guns though, I have a stash of Electronic Times and Electronic Weeklys from that period (1989-1990) which may include the 'Sonic binocular horse nobbling' circuit. Some of the lawyers on the case refer to it as the 'Sonic Gun' case. If I do find it I'm going to republish it just to hear you say.....Won't somebody think of the foals? I have no idea if it even works of course, but then none of my circuitry got published in the electronics rags.

One thing Jay said earlier about turning down a cops aggression levels, well, there is a way to do that scientifically, but it's a bit expensive and it really is a technology open to abuse so I've decided not to talk about it.

If the IMCistas want to hide any of my off-topic posts on this thread, feel free.

Danny

cartoon violence, pesky kids

16.04.2009 22:55

http://xkcd.com/273
228
382
101
517
525
220

anon cow
Homepage: http:// youtube.com/watch?v=6yFUtJhUb7Q

MURDER!

17.04.2009 15:05

Tomlinson's second autopsy has concluded that the cause of death was traumatic internal bleeding. The IPCC has announced that an officer is now being interviewed under caution for manslaughter.

Why manslaughter and when are they going to name the fucker?

Bourdin

BBC confirm not heart attack...?

18.04.2009 05:32

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8005105.stm

essexfluff

thought

18.04.2009 21:58

Is it not possible that the bleed was from the Medics doing CPR, which, as you know is quite traumatic on the body.

anon

CPR the bleeding cause?

18.04.2009 22:46

If you think the blood was there from the CPR by the police, and internal bleeding was the cause of death, then that means the police killed him anyway.

Neither pathologist has said that CPR was the cause of death, so it's a fairly safe bet that something else was, something like getting a bit of a whacking off the filth.

upthera

G20 DOG BITE - NASTY

19.04.2009 11:08

http://tr.youtube.com/watch?v=aHaLDH6PZEk&feature=related

http://tr.youtube.com/watch?v=DLL0Vp6BAgs

And in high-definition:

http://www.vimeo.com/4065507

c0stas

Bite me

19.04.2009 15:02

A cheap camping bedroll is great for keeping you warm at night, but a couple of layers of it also help protect slightly against dog-bites and police batons. People who follow black bloc tactics can face a line of dogs and would discourage the sort of reckless bravado that led to this wound.

Seeing the video rather just the picture of the wound has changed my opinion. The idiot earned his bite by baiting a wound up dog. The only award that fool deserves is a Darwin award for deluded macho posturing, but since the dog never got his throat or balIs then he doesn't qualify. I would have more sympathy with someone who deliberately walked out in front of a speeding police car. Any 'team' of dogs is heirarchical. Watch a line of police dogs, there will always be one or two dogs that aren't just wanting to bite you, they start attacking the other dogs. People who know dogs can figure out which dogs are safe. A disgruntled customer once set his rotty onto my nephew, only for him to clap on it and hold out his arms smiling, with the 'devil dog' knocking him over and half licking him to death.

Saying that, the police were using that dog as a weapon against an obvious imbecile they could easily have arrested without violence and so should be punished both for the incident and the tactic. The cops know the canine aggression levels and play on it. I was at arrested once on what I thought was an accountable action, and a protestor ran away which I didn't know was an option for us. The cops didn't bother chasing him, just released their most aggressive dog to catch him.

UK cops mostly get their dogs from abroad now, and are branching out from German Shepherds. "The biggest problem we have had recently is the lack of good quality dogs. The German shepherds these days are being bred for show. This is to get the looks, but the big problem for us is the temperament - they are either too aggressive or not aggressive enough - and the hips, they get really bad hips... It’s very rare you have to send a police dog after somebody once you shout: ‘Police, stand still or I’ll release the dog. And when you have to, the damage caused by the Rottweiler is actually less than an Alsatian."
-Sergeant Cameron Shanks, head of Central Scotland’s dog unit and chairman of the Scottish Police Dog Handlers Conference

Danny

mmmm

19.04.2009 22:54

So they review, people throw their teddies. Then it boils down to this.......

Police, "Ok, We wont put cordons in. We will let them protest. We will let them run amock and smash the buildings,burn the bridges, block the roads, get high, loot the stores etc.We will just make sure we put all our effort into checking each other shoulder numbers are displayed correctly"

MP's...... "Good point plod, crack on as normal.In fact lets try tear gas!"

Protester/Anarchist/leftie......"Bugger"

Rest of world......"Mings"

I am Indymedia

thought