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David Irving Run Out Of Town

Benny Riefenstahl | 28.03.2010 13:03 | Anti-racism | South Coast

Far-right holocaust denier David Irving was prevented from holding a meeting in Brighton today. 20 anti-fascists mobilised to shut down the meeting.

Far-right holocaust denier David Irving was prevented from holding a meeting in Brighton today. 20 anti-fascists mobilised to shut down the meeting.

The manager of the venue threw Irving and his four neo-Nazi hangers-on out as soon as he found out who Irving really was, but the fascists called the police and refused to leave without police presence. A police van and car responded and the Nazis promptly scarpered with their tails between their legs.

Brighton remains a no-go zone for fascists – previously Irving has had his holocaust denial literature confiscated and destroyed by anti-fascists, and the National Front were run out of town by marchers at Brighton Gay Pride in 2007.

Benny Riefenstahl
- Homepage: http://brightonsolfed.wordpress.com/

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Great Job...

28.03.2010 13:24

.....guys n' gals, show this Holocaust Denying scumbag he is not welcome anywhere!

IHTF

holocaust denial

28.03.2010 14:59

yeah, I know how holocaust deniers feel, I like to deny that the Titanic never sunk!

jo blogs

more of this sort of thing

28.03.2010 15:30

anyone who doubts such a stance shouldn't be taken when it comes to the e.d.l. should take a quick look at how they are using facebook to encourage racism in Dudley.

 http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs450.ash1/24800_108435325852059_100000567765205_161171_6022981_n.jpg

dudley dave

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This is smear against the EDL.

28.03.2010 16:26

The EDL are against terrorism, Islamic extremism. They are not racists. Islam is not a race.

Lotty

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excellent

28.03.2010 18:13

Excellent job shutting down the Holocaust denier David Irving.

Now do the same to the Holocaust denier Gilad Atzmon.

happy to hear it

Matty Bailey is a fan of... "Young and Gay"

28.03.2010 18:22

I assume this is the same person, their image says "British is Better" and their "Friends" all seem to be BNP and EDL:

 http://www.facebook.com/people/Matty-Bailey/100000243963907

But it says "Matty Bailey is a fan of..." "Young and Gay" as well as "I Am British And Against Any Muslim Extremist Group Protesting In The UK".

Assuming this isn't just a troll identity set up in the name of someone else, I wonder how they square that circle given the well-known BNP homophobia? These fascists are weird.

anon

about matty...

28.03.2010 18:57

maybe he joined "young and gay" to post abusive comments?? Or maybe he is young and gay. Either way his racism isn't open to question. And check out this BNP/EDL fuck wit posting racist comments to big up the planned Dudley EDL gathering.

 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000914543026&ref=search&sid=598597448.808035194..1

His comments are here....

 http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs450.ash1/24800_108435325852059_100000567765205_161171_6022981_n.jpg

pete

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he looks like a lefty

28.03.2010 20:18

hmmm

anon

Brilliant work!

28.03.2010 21:56

Brilliant work - congratulations!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BymuwOoHbjg

Bobsleigh

Are you sure this is accurate?

28.03.2010 22:05

It's not so easy to 'run' someone 'out of town'. The police might have something to say about a mob chasing an old guy down the street. On Irving's own site, he links to the above article on the 'brightonsolfed' site and says it is inaccurate. Then, he also says the anti-fascists are 'hired scum' which is not entirely true.

Raul Reeve

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Speaking of nazi sympathizers

28.03.2010 22:41

 http://hurryupharry.org/2010/03/28/gilad-atzmons-new-adventures-in-nazism/

great work

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ah, I see

28.03.2010 23:26

 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/03/448268.html?c=all

FTP will of course not admit that he's been played the fool. He would not publicly admit that Atzmon was an anti-Semite even if Atzmon started waving a swastika flag in the middle of a concert and demanding that Jews give up their UK citizenship.

Some people are capable of admitting when the evidence has finally stacked up against their long-held and forcefully argued position -- but FTP is not one of them. He threw in his lot with an anti-Semite and he's nothing if not bulldog loyal.

how small

What the fuck is this?

28.03.2010 23:43

can we have a bit more proper info on this please, something that goes beyond the campus rhetoric of the original piece?

This isn't anti-facsism, it's social fucking networking

Enkel Arms

more info...

29.03.2010 00:03

what more info do you want? names and addresses of participants? copies of passports? the meeting got shut down, and Irving proved his historical revisionism also applies to events the previous day as well as events half a century ago. at least the cunt's consistent.

helpful

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For the love of god

29.03.2010 01:01

Have some perspective, David Irvin is a revisionist historian with no credibility... nazis love him.
Gilad Atzmon is a moron musician, self-hating jew/ex-jew.
No one takes Gilad Atzmon seriously, and some very thick people take Irvin Seriously, including the head of the MI5, there is a small difference, Atzmon is a nobody, Irvin is a nobody with clout.
Well done good action, and if anyone wants to go after Atzmon, I won't object, but why bother?

As for that hidden comment, how is that against the EDL? are you admitting that the EDL is a nazi group then?

Nobody, with no clout

nice one

29.03.2010 01:07

Well done, wish all towns could manage the same, and apply that no platform logic to the EDL etc. Ignore the campus/more info commenter.

in solidarity

How about...

29.03.2010 02:45

1. what the meeting was about? How was it advertised?

2. was it a public meeting/had people paid to get in?

3. did irving organise the event himself?

4. If not who was the group who organised the meeting?

5. What was the venue?

6. Were people present at the meeting when it was stopped?

7. how did you actually prevent the meeting?

8. Were those present for the meeting confronted about their own reasons for being there?

9. Did any of you come into contact with the facsists? If so what was the outcome?

10. His "his four neo-Nazi hangers-on". Were they recognisable faces? Do we know what, if any group they belong to. Were they acting as security? (In fact any information on these characters would be useful intelligence).

Basic stuff. Not kids-on-campus macho posturing. A string of jargon words does not make an "anti-fascist" action.

Enkel Arms

to enkel

29.03.2010 07:52

To Enkel, those questions are reasonable, but maybe here is not the place to answer some of them. I think the fact that the action was successful is a good thing, and by definition makes it something much more worthwhile than "macho posturing".

dave

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Diversion

29.03.2010 07:55

Only 29% of UK Muslims are convinced by the story of the Holocaust that we have been given (according to a 2004, NOP poll. The dominant view in Arab countries is that a million Jewish people died due to disease and starvation. Persecution of Jews is accepted. They, though, are not Nazis.

I wouldn't be surprised if Irving were a Nazi. He ought to be "driven out of town" because he is a Nazi rather than because he's challenging the official orthodoxy on the Holocaust.

Some anti-fascists believe that the more true Holocaust denial is the more it has to be opposed.

Nonetheless, what is needed is objective, scientific evidence of the Holocaust.

insidejob

Nah Dave

29.03.2010 10:27

sorry mate it still reads like kids boasting on their twitter page.

Had to go to irving's site to get the BASIC info on this. No-one doubting the effect, and to be honest can't knock those who turned out for it. That isn't the point. He's doing a tour around the UK, it would've been good to have genuine, decent info on what to expect instead we get the worse kind of sniggering schoolboy posturing.

Next time mate, get someone else to do the report back eh? It's a genuine fucking embarrassment.

Enkel Arms

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Brighton solfed - comedy gold

29.03.2010 12:37

brilliant! Best laugh i've had from the posh squad since they stomed the vesta with a bag of shopping.

John Bowen

to Enkel Arms

29.03.2010 13:27

Enkel Arms- simple guidelines:

1.) find the venue where the event is taking place (not gonna tell you how in here though.. :) )
2.) speak with the owner/manager just befoire mneeting is due to start, not before. They had it booked as a "book reading club", nothing specific so owner didnt even know its Irvings lecture.
3.) no serious security, couple of ageing skinheads and assorted weirdoes so with few determined people it shouldnt be difficult to close it down. As I said in that case owner of the pub had no idea about the nature of lecture and didnt even think twice about kicking them out.

Most of your questions cant be answered in here due to obvious reasons.
Now get off your arse and start organizing ;)

antifascist

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Jesus wept

29.03.2010 13:52

so we get to 16 posts and the orginal article before any useful information is forthcoming.
And even then it's anti-fascism as a young james bond.

Most of the questions can't be answered cos they make you look like a bunch of fucking student wannabes. Even if you are not, that what it fucking looks like.

Get a new anti-facsist reporter, seriously.

Enkel Arms

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...

29.03.2010 14:07

> Get a new anti-facsist reporter, seriously.

Get a new forum to troll, seriously.

To Enkel

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no such thing

29.03.2010 14:19

"Some anti-fascists believe that the more true Holocaust denial is the more it has to be opposed. "

There's no such thing as 'true Holocaust denial' or even marginally true Holocaust denial. It happened. It's well documented. Holocaust denial has been a brownshirt exercise from the beginning, trying to cover up or wave away old Uncle Adolf's crimes.

not a fan of Uncle Adolf

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some things are orthodoxy because they're fact

29.03.2010 14:59

"challenging the official orthodoxy on the Holocaust" -- how Irvingesque of you to put it that way.

not Irvingesque

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To question is a crime?

29.03.2010 17:57

'some things are orthodoxy because they're fact
29.03.2010 14:59

"challenging the official orthodoxy on the Holocaust" -- how Irvingesque of you to put it that way.'

Let's ignore the fact that most Arab countries, including, no doubt, Iran, don't take the Holocaust as told to us seriously. Let's assume they are not fans of Adolf Hitler.

I'd still appreciate a pointer to objective/scientific assessments of the Holocaust rather than testimony of people who have an interest in promoting the official orthodoxy.

The International Red Cross managed to visit all the death camps and missed the attempt at genocide. An Eisenhower sponsored film of the atrocities in the camps also missed the genocide via gas chambers. And we, know that European Jewish people at the time (aside from one or two) had no idea about the genocide, which, we are told, was why they quietly went to their deaths.

I could do with more than being told that questioning the Holocaust is a Nazi crime.


insidejob

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Red Cross Report bullshit

29.03.2010 20:09

That is bullshit about the Red Cross - straight off a denialist website. Do your fucking homework. The quote used by denialists from the Red Cross isn't even about a Nazi concentration camp.

So fucking what if some Arabs, or Iranian politicians question the Nazi Holocaust?

And yes, I'd support an accurate evaluation of history but we don't get that from the denialists with their bullshit quote from the Red Cross, and lies about human remains at the Operation Rheinhard camps. Treblinka was the end of the line!

giuseppe

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wake up

29.03.2010 20:19

Raise your hand if you're dumb enough to believe thy the Nazis gave the International Red Cross full access to their death camps. That's how dumb insidejob wants you to be.

Instead he's feeding you recycled lies from the brownshirts.

not irvingesque

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you don't have to be a nazi to be wrong

29.03.2010 20:29

'Let's ignore the fact that most Arab countries, including, no doubt, Iran, don't take the Holocaust as told to us seriously. Let's assume they are not fans of Adolf Hitler. '

All that proves is that you don't have to be a nazi to be wrong.

All you have to do is run to your nearest Holocaust denial website and grab some lies to try to spread on UK Indymedia.

all that proves

Why the hysteria about a historian?

29.03.2010 21:30

Here's a detailed report, but its accuracy is disputed:
 http://brightonsolfed.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/holocaust-denier-denied-platform
I've seen Irving speak. He did not deny the Holocaust. He did reveal various Allied war crimes such as refusing to accept Japan's surrender one month before Hiroshima, condemning thousands of civilians and soldiers. He also described Axis war crimes - so why the hysteria? Some say it's because 'far right' types come to his meetings. Well, when myself and some other lefties went to his meeting, Indymedia commenters said we must be Nazis! They uncritically printed what Zionist websites said about 'holocaust denial'. Thanks to this Indymedia site for allowing contrary views.

Raul Reeve
mail e-mail: raul1009@yahoo.com

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thanks to Indymedia

30.03.2010 03:19

'Thanks to this Indymedia site for allowing contrary views.'

Absolutely. Thanks to Indymedia for hosting Holocaust denial.

absolutely

charlatan, not historian

30.03.2010 03:40

"Why the hysteria about a historian"

The Irving trial took a look at what he'd written and said and found that not only was he a Holocaust denier, a racist, and an anti-Semite, but that he lied again and again - intentionally lied - in his historical writings.

Proved. Documented.

Why are you defending the racist Irving? Why are you defending a racist liar?

Irving a proven charlatan

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Evidence please

30.03.2010 09:28

'All you have to do is run to your nearest Holocaust denial website and grab some lies to try to spread on UK Indymedia.
all that proves'

I'm not sure whether these comments are from the Israeli embassy or people on the Left. (Zionists pretending to be Left would have more knowledge about 'your nearest Holocaust denial website than people who actually are on the Left.)

Nonetheless, if you don't want me to substantiate my comments, please assume that I have been duped by denialists and that I am ignorant and point me to websites, information, anything, etc that provides objective scientific evidence of the gas chamber genocides. Such as:
- population statistics from reputable organisations including Jewish that identify the the number of Jews in Europe, USA and Israel before and after the Holocaust;
- evidence of the remains of bodies or chemical analysis of the grounds around a death camp or further afield that shows bodies were burned;
- or anything else other than unsupported claims that 4.5 to 6 million were gassed.

Also, explain why there are photographs and film of Nazis carrying out massacres of Jewish people through firing squad but nothing of the gassing.

Show me this and I need not go on about the evidence (you would say hoaxed evidence) produced by revisionists and denialists.

insidejob

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Evidence please

30.03.2010 10:50

All my posts about this topic has disappeared.

All I was asking was whether anyone could point me to objective evidence that mass gassing took place during the Holocaust. Is that a problem?

insidejob

Reply to criticisms of my plea to be careful when condemning Irving

31.03.2010 01:25

'Charlatan, not historian' says "The Irving trial took a look at what he'd written and said and found that not only was he a Holocaust denier, a racist, and an anti-Semite, but that he lied again and again". Isn't it possible that the result of the trial was biased? He does not 'deny' the Holocaust. 'Racist' and so on doesn't mean much at all - why is a judge saying things like that? To say a historian 'lied again and again' would take a bit more research than just reading the result of a trial!

Raul Reeve
mail e-mail: raul1009@yahoo.com

Why am I defending Irving?

31.03.2010 03:43

One of the commenters says "Why are you defending the racist Irving? Why are you defending a racist liar?" as if my defense of Irving is a crime. I defended Saddam Hussein against the allegation that he was involved in the September 11th attacks. Why am I defending Saddam?

Raul Reeve
mail e-mail: raul1009@yahoo.com

Irving has stopped pretending to be a simple historian

31.03.2010 14:48

he refers to opponents as "filthy Jud Süss rats" in reference to the anti-Semitic Nazi propaganda film, and cites Hitler himself approvingly on the conspiratorial nature of "the Jews".

do keep up

Irving has stopped pretending to be a simple historian?

31.03.2010 15:12

"Irving has stopped pretending to be a simple historian" - because he has said some horrible racist things? So a historian ceases to be a historian if we don't like their opinions? Even the trial judge said Irving did some first rate historical work. I don't listen to Irving for opinions. I learn about war crimes via his translations of intercepts of German and Japanese intelligence at Bletchley Park, SS officers' recollections, etc..

Raul Reeve
mail e-mail: raul1009@yahoo.com

speak for yourself, Irving fan

31.03.2010 16:16

''Racist' and so on doesn't mean much at all' - it does for those who oppose racism. Among fans of Irving maybe not so much.

You're showing what it takes to be an Irving supporter: an iron-clad ability to wave away anything you disagree with as 'unimportant' 'biased', whatever it takes to ignore it.

not a fan of Uncle Adolf

Lucky

01.04.2010 08:26

Raul,

you're lucky they are allowing your posts even though they would say you are defending a racist and Hitler supporter.

I asked for scientific evidence to support the Holocaust gas chamber genocide and they deleted all my posts and the responses to it. A bit 1984-like.

insidejob

real history

01.04.2010 13:56

Go back and look at the coverage of the Irving trial, and you'll see how Irving was exposed as a racist and as a "liar for Hitler." The judge's judgment against Irving is available online here among other places.

 http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html

David Irving earned the destruction of his reputation the hard way: by lying, lying again, and lying some more. But there are people who just love to be lied to, and Raul seems to be one of them.

not a fan of Uncle Adolf

Not a fan of uncle Adolf, Winston, Franklin or Joe

01.04.2010 18:15

Again, thanks to UK Indymedia for allowing a discussion. I don't expect it to last, so I'll make it brief. 'Not a fan of Uncle Adolf' says racism means a lot to anti-racists - I can only agree. Then he or she says David Irving told lies, and thinks maybe I like being lied to. He may well have lied. EH Carr covered up for Josef Stalin, but his work on the Russian Revolution is still useful. I don't know if Irving's death toll for Dresden is true - I wasn't there - but he is worth reading if you want to research the subject. For all his faults, he does useful work, even if you come from a left-wing perspective as I do. Hysteria against him is of no use to anyone.

Raul Reeve

it's right in front of you

01.04.2010 21:29

Once again the evidence is right in front of you, and once again you do everything you can to ignore it. The court documented quite clearly how Irving wildly exaggerated the number of dead at Dresden, and all you can do is wave it away with a "oh it's undecided then".

Sure, reading Irving is great if you want to stop after every sentence and wonder what the lie he's slipped into it is. And if you have no basic problem taking an internationally despised racist anti-Semite at his own word.

not a fan of Uncle Adolf

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