The Stone Roses lambasted & the class-bias of journalist Penny Anderson
scally | 19.02.2009 16:38 | Analysis | Other Press
Penny Anderson has written a negative opinion piece about early nineties band - The Stone Roses, on the 20th anniversary of the release of their debut album.
The following contains a pointed response pasted below her opinion piece in the Guardian, which is rather objectionable, seriously misinformed and implauslibly inadequately justified negation of what many view as an all-time classic album.
The following contains a pointed response pasted below her opinion piece in the Guardian, which is rather objectionable, seriously misinformed and implauslibly inadequately justified negation of what many view as an all-time classic album.
Original article:
Why are the Stone Roses adored?
The Manchester band are seemingly immune from criticism. Why? Their songs are bloated and their lead singer has a voice so bad it could strip wallpaper
The Guardian
Wednesday 18 February 2009 09.00
Ref:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/feb/17/stone-roses-twentieth-anniversary?commentpage=3&commentposted=1
To celebrate its 20th anniversary, The Stone Roses is to be repackaged as a box set. This amazes me, but then the misty-eyed adoration enjoyed by Ian Brown and co has always been baffling. The band's eponymous 1989 debut always seems to make the top 10 best-ever lists. How the hell did that happen?
Perhaps my view is coloured by their live shows, which were like rallies for scallies. To be fair, after they got rid of Cressa (their answer to Bez) they improved. Drummer Reni would play improvised solos that suggested he really loved music, and guitarist John Squire was creditable.
For me, however, their work smelled pungently of bloke. I wrote about my doubts at the time. The hate mail was typically misogynistic, poorly spelled and scribbled ham-fistedly in green crayon, arguing that Ian Brown was a god, and that I was deaf. The Roses were the gang of supposed outsiders that all boys dreamed of joining. It was impossible to criticise them; they didn't have fans, they had disciples. I saw once Ian Brown backstage – he held court with devotees arranged at his feet.
Members of the music press were equally besotted. After one hyperbolic review of their Alexandra Palace "event", a member of Ride wrote an eloquent letter to NME, wondering if he had been at the same gig as the writer. (Unfortunately, he penned this missive on headed notepaper from the record shop he then worked in. They sacked him, so he concentrated on Ride.)
Even in the breeding ground for aggressively marketed mediocrity that was Madchester, the Roses were not universally admired. Tony Wilson once told me his theory that if you gave 1,000 monkeys guitars and Jimi Hendrix songbooks, they'd eventually emerge sounding like the Stone Roses.
If nothing else, the Roses were memorable for Ian Brown's terrible voice, which could strip paint off walls, and, given favourable acoustics, sap a person's spirit until death was a merciful release. Producer John Leckie and engineer Paul Schroeder hid Brown's voice in the mix. Give them medals (and earplugs).
The lyrics were not especially bad, but seemed worse because of the po-faced, pompous insistence by fans and band alike that Brown's mumbled doggerel ("Your big fat lips let go a scream") was eloquent. Or even political. Sorry, you've lost me there as well. See Elizabeth My Dear: "I'll not rest til she's lost her throne!" Well, that didn't work, did it? She's still Queen.
I know I've been swimming against the tide for 20 years, so let's be clear: I Wanna Be Adored, She Bangs the Drums, Waterfall and Don't Stop are all classics.
But (and this is a particularly large one) do we really need 8.12 minutes of I Am the Resurrection? I don't think so. As for Don't Stop; even the most addled, cult-of-Ian-Brown acolyte doesn't need 5.17 minutes of phased guitars and backwards effects. So, the Stone Roses' debut album: fine in the beginning, but it doesn't half drag on.
Comment by mshughes:
First of all Penny, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Fair enough, if you could write like Dostoyevsky or Joyce, I could accept you having a pop about the spelling and grammar contained within the replies from 'Roses disciples' that you happened to receive. But you can't.....
To quote, "I saw once Ian Brown"....oh did you. You see twice Ian Brown ever? Or maybe you see thrice Ian Brown? You're journalistic credibility's gone straight out of the window. And, let's not forget your howling factual error. 1984.....first class. We can all point the finger.
Who's fault is it that these 'blokes' couldn't spell and write? Did you ever think it was more of a reflection on the education system than them? If it was such a big deal to you, why didn't you dedicate your life to political journalism and lobbying for governmental change instead of banging on about whether a song's three minutes too long? I've read Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky and I know all about the Propaganda Theory Model. Do you think that you're hands are clean, and that people not receiving a decent education is no fault of yours or your colleagues? You and your colleagues continue to play your part in keeping the current socio-economic order the same! How pathetic of you to therefore lambast these 'blokes'.
The Stone Roses is my favourite album, the Stone Roses are my favourite band and I am a scally born on a council estate. So that makes me illiterate, stupid and misogynistic? How wrong you are.
You're diatribe about scallies and blokes is nothing more than a thinly veiled attack on the male working class. What always makes me laugh is why the biggest middle-class ponce in modern music, Pete Doherty and his ilk, are always trying to appear as scallies/blokes. Fred Perry tops, Harrington jackets, tales of fighting etc. Secretly.....you middle class types love us......go on, just admit that having everything that you ever wanted handed to you on a plate wasn't as great as it should have been. I'm always left bewildered by the middle classes who enjoy claiming that they're from a working class background. Abject poverty is a tawdry badge of honour and one I worked hard to shed.
f you had any cultural awareness whatsoever, you'd know that 'scallies' never originated from Manchester, they were created in Liverpool. The clothes that they wore,haircuts etc all came from trips that they took abroad to watch Liverpool FC play in europe. The southerners adopted a 'Manc' twang about seven years later at the height of Britpop. The Stone Roses were highly opposed to regionalism. Remember Ian Brown saying "it's not where you're from, it's where you're at"?
I'm also struggling to see how Cressa could have affected how the band played....he danced and was in charge of John Squire's guitar effects....Hardly writing the songs.
As for the beatified Tony Wilson's comment, did it not cross your mind that he may have been a bit jealous/annoyed because they weren't signed to his label and his charges the Happy Mondays were just not as good as the Roses? Do you not agree that it's somewhat naive of you to believe that you may get an objective appraisal from somebody with a highly vested interest? How old were you when you attended the gigs? A dirty thought in your old man's mind? Please feel free to join us in the real world anytime soon. Then again, weighing people up is a bit of a scally trait. We don't do air kissing and media type 'luvvy duvvy' greetings......
Concerning Ian Brown's voice. Dylan, Lydon, Strummer, Ferry and countless others don't sound like Pavarotti. Does that mean we downplay the significance of them? Are you criticising the Stone Roses album or the band? There's not one note out of place on the album.....But then again, your argument isn't formulated or coherent.
Political lyrics? Have you listened to Bye Bye Badman? It's about the Paris riots of '68. Far more impressive though is the use of biblical phrases and religious imagery throughout the album and the subsequent singles. 'Something's Burning' in particular. As for dismissing 'Elizabeth My Dear', did it not occur to you that Ian Brown may have created that song to tell a story, singing as if he were in character. It does happen, don't Morrissey, David Bowie and a host of others do it?
Reni is one of the greatest drummers ever. See what Pete Townshend has to say on the subject. He knows more about it than you or I. John Squire creditable. Name me a single British guitarist that has played on a debut album since 1989 that is fit to tune up for him. You can't.
Penny, you are entitled to your opinion regarding the music and whether or not I agree with your opinion, you should still be able to voice it. Us scallies are very liberal! This article has shown real narrow mindedness. Shouldn't you be working for the Daily Mail?
Why are the Stone Roses adored?
The Manchester band are seemingly immune from criticism. Why? Their songs are bloated and their lead singer has a voice so bad it could strip wallpaper
The Guardian
Wednesday 18 February 2009 09.00
Ref:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/feb/17/stone-roses-twentieth-anniversary?commentpage=3&commentposted=1 To celebrate its 20th anniversary, The Stone Roses is to be repackaged as a box set. This amazes me, but then the misty-eyed adoration enjoyed by Ian Brown and co has always been baffling. The band's eponymous 1989 debut always seems to make the top 10 best-ever lists. How the hell did that happen?
Perhaps my view is coloured by their live shows, which were like rallies for scallies. To be fair, after they got rid of Cressa (their answer to Bez) they improved. Drummer Reni would play improvised solos that suggested he really loved music, and guitarist John Squire was creditable.
For me, however, their work smelled pungently of bloke. I wrote about my doubts at the time. The hate mail was typically misogynistic, poorly spelled and scribbled ham-fistedly in green crayon, arguing that Ian Brown was a god, and that I was deaf. The Roses were the gang of supposed outsiders that all boys dreamed of joining. It was impossible to criticise them; they didn't have fans, they had disciples. I saw once Ian Brown backstage – he held court with devotees arranged at his feet.
Members of the music press were equally besotted. After one hyperbolic review of their Alexandra Palace "event", a member of Ride wrote an eloquent letter to NME, wondering if he had been at the same gig as the writer. (Unfortunately, he penned this missive on headed notepaper from the record shop he then worked in. They sacked him, so he concentrated on Ride.)
Even in the breeding ground for aggressively marketed mediocrity that was Madchester, the Roses were not universally admired. Tony Wilson once told me his theory that if you gave 1,000 monkeys guitars and Jimi Hendrix songbooks, they'd eventually emerge sounding like the Stone Roses.
If nothing else, the Roses were memorable for Ian Brown's terrible voice, which could strip paint off walls, and, given favourable acoustics, sap a person's spirit until death was a merciful release. Producer John Leckie and engineer Paul Schroeder hid Brown's voice in the mix. Give them medals (and earplugs).
The lyrics were not especially bad, but seemed worse because of the po-faced, pompous insistence by fans and band alike that Brown's mumbled doggerel ("Your big fat lips let go a scream") was eloquent. Or even political. Sorry, you've lost me there as well. See Elizabeth My Dear: "I'll not rest til she's lost her throne!" Well, that didn't work, did it? She's still Queen.
I know I've been swimming against the tide for 20 years, so let's be clear: I Wanna Be Adored, She Bangs the Drums, Waterfall and Don't Stop are all classics.
But (and this is a particularly large one) do we really need 8.12 minutes of I Am the Resurrection? I don't think so. As for Don't Stop; even the most addled, cult-of-Ian-Brown acolyte doesn't need 5.17 minutes of phased guitars and backwards effects. So, the Stone Roses' debut album: fine in the beginning, but it doesn't half drag on.
Comment by mshughes:
First of all Penny, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Fair enough, if you could write like Dostoyevsky or Joyce, I could accept you having a pop about the spelling and grammar contained within the replies from 'Roses disciples' that you happened to receive. But you can't.....
To quote, "I saw once Ian Brown"....oh did you. You see twice Ian Brown ever? Or maybe you see thrice Ian Brown? You're journalistic credibility's gone straight out of the window. And, let's not forget your howling factual error. 1984.....first class. We can all point the finger.
Who's fault is it that these 'blokes' couldn't spell and write? Did you ever think it was more of a reflection on the education system than them? If it was such a big deal to you, why didn't you dedicate your life to political journalism and lobbying for governmental change instead of banging on about whether a song's three minutes too long? I've read Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky and I know all about the Propaganda Theory Model. Do you think that you're hands are clean, and that people not receiving a decent education is no fault of yours or your colleagues? You and your colleagues continue to play your part in keeping the current socio-economic order the same! How pathetic of you to therefore lambast these 'blokes'.
The Stone Roses is my favourite album, the Stone Roses are my favourite band and I am a scally born on a council estate. So that makes me illiterate, stupid and misogynistic? How wrong you are.
You're diatribe about scallies and blokes is nothing more than a thinly veiled attack on the male working class. What always makes me laugh is why the biggest middle-class ponce in modern music, Pete Doherty and his ilk, are always trying to appear as scallies/blokes. Fred Perry tops, Harrington jackets, tales of fighting etc. Secretly.....you middle class types love us......go on, just admit that having everything that you ever wanted handed to you on a plate wasn't as great as it should have been. I'm always left bewildered by the middle classes who enjoy claiming that they're from a working class background. Abject poverty is a tawdry badge of honour and one I worked hard to shed.
f you had any cultural awareness whatsoever, you'd know that 'scallies' never originated from Manchester, they were created in Liverpool. The clothes that they wore,haircuts etc all came from trips that they took abroad to watch Liverpool FC play in europe. The southerners adopted a 'Manc' twang about seven years later at the height of Britpop. The Stone Roses were highly opposed to regionalism. Remember Ian Brown saying "it's not where you're from, it's where you're at"?
I'm also struggling to see how Cressa could have affected how the band played....he danced and was in charge of John Squire's guitar effects....Hardly writing the songs.
As for the beatified Tony Wilson's comment, did it not cross your mind that he may have been a bit jealous/annoyed because they weren't signed to his label and his charges the Happy Mondays were just not as good as the Roses? Do you not agree that it's somewhat naive of you to believe that you may get an objective appraisal from somebody with a highly vested interest? How old were you when you attended the gigs? A dirty thought in your old man's mind? Please feel free to join us in the real world anytime soon. Then again, weighing people up is a bit of a scally trait. We don't do air kissing and media type 'luvvy duvvy' greetings......
Concerning Ian Brown's voice. Dylan, Lydon, Strummer, Ferry and countless others don't sound like Pavarotti. Does that mean we downplay the significance of them? Are you criticising the Stone Roses album or the band? There's not one note out of place on the album.....But then again, your argument isn't formulated or coherent.
Political lyrics? Have you listened to Bye Bye Badman? It's about the Paris riots of '68. Far more impressive though is the use of biblical phrases and religious imagery throughout the album and the subsequent singles. 'Something's Burning' in particular. As for dismissing 'Elizabeth My Dear', did it not occur to you that Ian Brown may have created that song to tell a story, singing as if he were in character. It does happen, don't Morrissey, David Bowie and a host of others do it?
Reni is one of the greatest drummers ever. See what Pete Townshend has to say on the subject. He knows more about it than you or I. John Squire creditable. Name me a single British guitarist that has played on a debut album since 1989 that is fit to tune up for him. You can't.
Penny, you are entitled to your opinion regarding the music and whether or not I agree with your opinion, you should still be able to voice it. Us scallies are very liberal! This article has shown real narrow mindedness. Shouldn't you be working for the Daily Mail?
scally
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