Following are nearly complete notes of everything that was said, and sometimes done, during the planning meetings for the ESF 2004 held this weekend (13-14 Dec) in London at City Hall. I tried to make the abbreviations used clear, but may have missed some explanations. Anything in brackets [like these] is an addition I added that was not said at the meeting. For example, I added people’s political parties or organisation membership whenever I knew about them. Any comment that starts with a ‘ - ’ is a comment from the floor without microphone and usually without a name given. Wherever possible I used the exact words of the speakers, this resulted sometimes in non-perfect English or French. In some cases I did slight improvements to the English, and in all cases I severely butchered the French. Apologies all around. I tried to translate the French into English as I was typing, but this ended up only working partially as you will see below. Other times the French contributions are just in French. There are many words I missed, sometimes important ones, please add and change anything you think needs adjusting.

Enjoy!
Love to all,
Marianne

Morning, Saturday 13th Dec, 2003:

Facilitators: Dave Hillman (Tobin tax network), Claire Williams (UNISON, SWP) and Patricia Lamour (network of ?), Helena Targeson (Attac sweden, Seattle to Brussels network, Swedish ESF coordination)

Intro by Lee Jasper [senior advisor to Ken Livingston, mayor of London]: London is great for these reasons….. No financial support from gov. We have to make the best event give these circumstances I’ve described. I hope that we can host the next event here in London, I hope that we can get that decision here today. I welcome you on behalf of the socialist mayor ken Livingston and on behalf of…..

DH (Dave Hillman): Can I welcome…(someone, not sure who)

?: TUC regional office, London SE and east of england. 2 million trade union members. Took decision to support the holding of the esf in London. Explain why. Trade unions believe in the need to maintain justice in the work place. Respect as central theme. TUs believe that International law is core. Labour standards globally. Key values of the trade union movement. Happy to work with anyone who shares those values or commitments. And want to thank the mayor of London for their technical support and their analysis of French and Italian ESF and their work on the budget and their budget analysis. Also like to thank the interpreters.
(Hugo Braun talking to chair and then to Leo Gabriel at front of room throughout this speech)

Dave Hillman; DH: he gave the language channels for translation. All working ok? Also please speak slowly for those who have no translation. I would like to introduce as well why we are here and how we got here. I am from the Tobin tax network

Claire Williams; CW: unison

Patricia Lamour; PL: newly emerged network of ?

Helena Targesson?, swedish esf cord and attac Sweden.

DH: proposed agenda put forward by group on wed dec 3rd. We were decided there, and also along side european panel, that’s why Helena is here.

CW: did you want to speak? (pointing at Mariangela)

Mariangela [ManchesterSF, rifundazioni comunista, International Solidarity Movement] I now know who you are, but we should introduce us all. And we need a different venue next time. There have been many complaints about the security, etc..

CW: outline the principles by which we meet. The way we try and reach decisions is through consensus we all need to be aware and to understand this. We hope to be able to have lots of discussion and debate. Looking at our experience in the past, sharing our positive experiences from that. Important for those of us from the UK to understand what we need to do to be able to org a good social forum next year. Part of that will be about the process we use. Part of the discussion that will lead from that is that we do need to come to a consensus about where the next ESF will be held and it is important because of the work that has to be done to set up networks to org that. Part of the discussion was to look at how these meetings were org in the past and how to work on that. For working groups for this afternoon. Later on we’re planning to bring everyone back together to share what was done during the working groups [WG(s) from now on]. Tomorrow have discussion about process and this morning there will be a discussion about that, particularly important for the UK SF (UK social Forums). Need to reach consensus on where the next european assembly (EA) will be held. We want the maximum number of people to be able to participate.
Are people happy with this?

Leo Gabriel (Austrain SF): [Sat at table next to Helena, did not use the reg mike.] Also agreed to have a step back and analysis of the forum, I would like to present the result s of discussion we have been having in Austria.

Dean: Wombles: no problems with agenda. Concern is with working groups. We should call them themes rather than groups. I think we need at least 7 groups. If at two o’clock split into four themes and then decide on WGs.

DH: completely acceptable that we call them themes b/c all these things are completely open to discussion.

Hugo Braun [Attac Germany, German SF]: I don’t want to suggest another WG for this afternoon, but those people involved in the process of the SM, have to meet to prepare process on Sunday afternoon.

Elisabeth Gotier(?) from Espace marx: pour preciser dans le group de travail, nous avoions d’habitude d’avoir ?. J’ai travaillé dans group enlargissement vers Europe l’est. Je trouve La formulation ici trop restrictive.
[EN: to specify in the working groups, we are used to having..? I worked in the enlargement towards Eastern Europe group. I find the structure here too restrictive.]

London correspondence committee: Our comrades In Iran do not have the luxury of meeting and organising. WE must call for US to withdraw.
-You’re wasting our time. (comment from floor)
Oh I see the war is a waste of your time?
DH: no, we can discuss this under the SM discussion. All kinds of mobilisation can be discussed. But can we agree on moving on with the agenda now?

Luciano Mulbauer: Cobas (Italian ESF added only after demanded from floor.) [also Rifundazioni Comunista] I don’t want to propose evaluation of Florence to you. We are not only taking about event, but process. I don’t believe we have models, we don’t have to build models now in our movement. I just want to express the experience of Florence. The esf is a process not event. We believe that the most important thing was not 60,000 delegates, but building for the first time in the last years a european network of movements, before there was no relationship like this between networks. Built together this network at European level. Second most important thing was the 15 feb. without the process of ESF there was no possibility of build this process. A forum which is useful, not just an event, useful for the movement against war, neolib, racism, for the global movement because we are inside a global movement.
Interruption.
(confusion about what was going on. Person from floor asked why luciano was going on so much, and that it was meant to be report not proposal. Then it was explained that he was doing the report on the Italian ESF)
-So sorry.
It is also useful to build another Europe. If we look to this as a process, methodology is the most important thing. Our experience in Florence, we had no model we had no experience. The problem we have in a process is not the presentation but it is involving and enlarging the net. That means that we need an open process, not closed structures. Open assemblies, open everything. This is not more democratic, but more efficient. Even when we talk for 9 hours. There is no alternative to this because we have to have a space to talk. We have to be open but also efficient in building the thing. It means also money, programme, WGs. We need a place where to talk about the programme. We have to discuss in the WGs, today to start a discussion. Enlarging the net is a very important. It is not easy for the people in Eastern Europe (EE) to come to London, we have to sort this out. Today Europe is not Europe of just north west. Organisation group: we had in florence and paris the possibility to have public sector support to have the space, we didn’t pay for the fortress, here this will need more work. That’s why there are no models. Today in the working group how to make a fundraising. That means working with the GLA, important to work with them, but it is not enough, we have to do a very good work or else we won’t have enough for all the people coming. We have to evolve and be pol efficient in building concrete responses to our position. We have to make a good discussion what we have to change and go on. Thank you.

DH: very useful. Absolutely thank you.

Sophie: Je suis Sophie Zafari syndicaliste a FSU, un bilan global sur . . . comment les impression sur bilan. Pour nous un grand suces. Un suces par la participation au niveau politique, pour dire que Florence n’etitat pas une exception, Une force capable d’etre evenement et processus. A montre ca capacite a poursuivre la face pendant . . .? Themeatique forte. Pour les droites et contre guerre. 51,000 délegées totale, 20,000 nonfrancais. C’etait tres visible dans le debat. Aussi beacaoup de Pays de l’est. de la point du vue jeunesse et femmes, nous sommes vraiment contente par la participation. Forum on women was very positive. Since one year we have started the process. La diversité des acteurs a été reusssi. Org immigration, vrai inclusion, vrai traival ensemble. Touts les mouvement culture et pour les droites. Nous avons continuer a enlargir. Nous avons apris beaucoup. Le point du vue de participation de les salarié. Un défi pour le forum. La creation du FSLocaux. Ca ouvre aussi le caracter du le Forum. Meme un forum uni de delegees. Sans forcement de exluder des citoyens. Comment conseiller les deux. All the work we did and the creation of the babels, our movement to allow us to communicate. I must say that the spacial division was a big handicap. We wish that on no one. Prevented us from being able to feel the dynamic of the ESF. Should think to reinforce tout l’espace comme glad, tout les espace informel. Pay attention to give a maximum to the diversity of spaces like these. Group programme. Among ourselves we found that we could reach a consensus not restrictive but expansive to help us go forward. De tout les droites. On perd.the diversity of thematique. Bien sur le plenaire, donne un grand . . . ? We lost a lot of time to work on the seminars to the plenaries. Maybe think about this.
Because the question of construction of alternatives is very important, we must put more time into the seminars ou on pris des decisions. Pour les plenaires, trop de representation. Sans laissez-tomber, mais plus de travaille sure des seminairs. Maybe modify the relation between the different spaces. We kept the idea of the assembly of SM is inside the process of the forum. Permit de rendere compte de donner des sites de rendez-vous. Pour finir, de point du vue de functionnement et processes. We proposed a functionnement as a big space over four days [sept 27th-30th] always with a consensus. At the european level we learn to work together. Comme en france, we have built on political level to approve the text and the financial participation and it must always be possible for new people to join. The org engage themselves, time, money, etc.

Marianne Ness: Ligue des droite des hommes. Member of secretariat. We were 100,000 people at the demo. 30,000 headsets. 3 millions euros. This money came from government. From the suburbs. Sub regional council also gave money, but paris and ile de france refused to give money. Our budget was between 5-6 million euros. We hired seven people and then the rest were volunteers. French initiative committee, and then secretariat, org group. 30-50 people in each group just to talk about the organisation and the programme. This group worked with different working groups or workshops. Food, transport, solidarity, housing etc.. 10-15 working-groups to prepare. Met twice a month in the beginning. Stopped in May/june during strikes movement, and started again, and towards the end it was 15hrs a day everyday. For last days no sleep. So, very important, it was a major problem for us. 300 org were member of the org group. Only 6 provided volunteers. We needed 2000 volunteers. FSU, CGT, G10, ATTAC, LDH, ?. You have to pay to attend the forum, 3 euros least. On Thursday we realised that everyone wanted to attend for 3 euros, but we had to start to negotiate with people to pay more. This was a major problem. We are tired and now it’s up to you.

DH: summary of what we learned from their speeches. We want as much participation as possible. We ask that interventions be 3 minutes as short as possible so we can have as many people as possible. We’ll do it the time honoured way, so if you want to line up at the mike. [People already lining up.]
If we can do it Male/Female/M/F that would be good.

-lets do it female/male instead. (from floor)

Pierro (Italy): on a un situation different en angleterre. Il ya des choses qu on doit changer. Gigantisme. En france le centre gauche qu a decide de donner tout l’espaces sans charge de faire propagande pour eux-meme. On peut plus faire ca. parce-que comme ca nous allons allé dans les endroites ou on a des gauche admin. Nous avons decide Florence, une ville petite, des grands villes sont dangerous. 2. les militantes, we need particaption general not two or three orgs. 3. the mechanism of the forum. We work for a year to do what in fact? In Florence we worked for a year for one demo. On doit edifier. On doit voire quoi faire. It’s difficult to discuss this afternoon without an idea of that.

Anne: Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB): point luciano need to think about process. Think this is very important question for us. Not just an event, but a process. EU constitution. Need to think about what kind of Europe we are for. Social rights in Europe. Important to unite the movements. My proposal is to sicaua? the question of a social charter we can unite around.

Alex Callinicos: Marxism journalist group [also SWP]. I wont talk about the success of Paris. Problem of geographical dispersal in paris. That was inherent in the consortium involved in setting it up in the first place. In London, where I hope the next esf will take place there are financial obstacles but no political obstacles. The plenaries were the biggest problem, the discussion was completely dominated by speakers and there was no interaction between speakers. Money. Big problem, we are not going to get support from the state. Maybe GLA, but not enough. But also capital of resistance to war. So involvement of many movements can allow us to raise the money.

Ann Grey: campaign against criminalizing communities, LondonSF: Anti-terrorism laws. Demo today. ESF can deepen and expand the work of small movements and networks. Try to define themes areas. Find those movements that work on these areas, and then say to them to organise that area of the forum, and certain logistical task. Spread them out as far as possible to give access to free resources. If we network in that way we can envisage that the most effective way to mobilise as many people as possible who can afford to pay the full amount.

Hugo Braun [Attac Germany, German SF]: speaking in English. The regulation of the ESF in Paris was positive. Thanks. Forum gave new and keen incentives to the movement and a process of mobilization against the policies of ? was a social destruction and the new instruments against constitution. For german activists the most important was the inclusion of the TUs. Provoked by the TU part in paris, the TUC in germany, and the ETUC called for a common day of action for the 2/3rd of april. When the ESF decided to support this in paris, we can discuss tomorrow how best to do this. From my point of view historical first that they are all working together, I want that the next forum will be focussed on the movement of social protests next year.

Jill H, Globalise resistance (GR) Scotland: what we’ve done so far. Need to be Inclusive mobilisation. Need to be United. Want the TU, the activists, mostly STW, and the radical political parties. We are starting to establish a Scottish mob committee, with letter and people with names. So far GR, Dundee labour council, amwar? lawyer, housing activist, poverty alliance, Glasgow NJA, churches mission, ??. Waitng on the Scottish TUC. Just a report on how far we got.

Dave Stocking for league for a 5th International (L5th I): we have to reduce substantially the proportion of the plenaries, and those should be debates with speakers from different points of view. Need to build SFs in all towns across UK. Oppose luciano on question of representation being the opposite of inclusiveness. We’ve got to get the large and important org s in britian to commit themselves. We need a campaign from now on in the localities, TU at the base, and councils that do have resources.

DH: please if you’re going to have a conversation can you go outside.

Lindsey German: STWC [also SWP]: we agreed to welcome the Forum to Britain at meeting last week. We were waiting for this meeting and our own conference in Feb. It is still a growing movement that we hope will play a very large part of the ESF mobilisation. Weren’t in paris because of bush’s visit. We need to include more women, not sectioned off day before. We have a huge anti-war movement but financing and logistics is difficult. While we want consensus, it has to be in the context of commitment from everyone to go forward, far beyond this room for money.

Christain, Monde Syndical Suisse: particulaire media syndicat. 1. je ne voudrais pas de dire des plenaires sont inutile. They are important and essential. They have three functions: they show a political point of view that is very useful for how to be more critical of the construction of the european constitution and this was thanks to this plenary. Second function, there are many people here that are active in the movement, but many people come to the ESF to learn something, not really to participate. They want to listen to the others. These conferences are important because they allow this. They make understandable the divergence between the people who participate in the debate. It is also useful to have this type of debate, the fact that the rooms were always full proves that there is a need. 2. we must create a meeting between Palestinians and Israeli activists. Mettre en place ce reunion.

Christine Bucholtz: Germany. 1. people complained about the plenaries. Second point people felt lost. Due to geographical dispersal. 3. people liked the idea of having a more open space, more integrated into the whole forum. Not to have it in a separate way. 4. womens assembly, we were not happy with how this took place. Politically very narrow. I was part of discussions I thought it was very dominated by French and Italian groups. Young generation of women must come into the debate. We set up a group now to prepare for the next forum. Maybe not have separate assembly. Create space to discuss this.

George Shaw: one of 11million pensioners in this country. We create no surplus value. We nevertheless want to continue to fight for our freedom. Would like to see this issue among others addressed. Other issue: The fact that in this country we have a huge burgeoning prison population and mental institutions. Mainly young black people. This needs to be addressed. Along side other issued. Situation of Civil liberties in this country. Q of security and detaining of individual people. Migrant labour in europe. We have seen the biggest movement of migration at beginning of 21st C.

Mariangela: ManchesterSF [Rifundazioni Cominista]: I’ll speak in English. The forces who put the bid are the same forces who are not supporting the spread of the SF in this country. I ask myself why these people are so keen to go to paris and to propose to have the ESF here in 2004, but don’t wasn’t to know about the SFs here in paris. Johnathan Neale said no when asked if he would support local SFs. I would like to thank Lindsay German for telling us what the LSF has decided about the ESF. the discussion has to be spread. Proposal about the format. If this is a process it has to be possible for the people at the forum to meet to have networks to talk and to call for action, if there are only speakers, that’s not a process. We will have one demo here and one there, the aim is not this, the aim in to change Europe. More floor speaking, more listening to the people who are in the street. Let’s listen to them. We need to have the time to be in the process. . . . but I want a womens day before that.

Les: LSF and another campaign. Esf as Process. What kind of process for what aims for what kind of unity. We all agree we want another Europe, but what other Europe and how. Traditional model is negotiating a common statement and then getting agreement on it. Same as SM assembly in IT and FR. In itself this does not realise the potential of the ESF to take forward the movement. We need a process which evaluates the strategies people have tried. These must become more than slogans. Today is the first ever outdoor protest against the detainment in guantanomo bay. Directions. Hope people will join us at 1, when we break for lunch.

DH: chair: question about if there are any other official bids? (noisy mess in room).

Esf Poland: 400 people came to paris this year. Three times more than in Florence. Still not enough TU people. Our organisers came invite them to be an active part of the movement. Looks good in Poland. When we had discussion about france, complaints about the location, got lost travelling. The plenaries, we wanted to have more talk from the floor. This should be improved next year. Not 7 or 8 speakers.

Olivier: GenevaSF: Process, methodology. Not to criticise, but maybe plenaries should be more debate like but can’t expect to have real contribution from floor. After Florence and paris what is missing after Florence and paris is grassroots debates. I know it sounds complicated but there are people who need to be able to talk in small groups, a need for a process. It is a fascinating experience, but each person has to make in an individualistic way his own programme. Maybe constitute thematic assemblies. Maybe one assembly and then meetings of at least two small groups, and they could also create propostions to the social movement assembly at end. Other prop, some kind of space, exhibition space, of that they think is important, maze of gifts and needs. Q of finance. Lets not accept money just from anywhere, political question.

DH: Note from interpreters

Tina Becker, CPGB: third esf opportunity to learn. Time has come to critically look at these experiences. Here’s what we’ve done, here’s what we need. People have mentioned the big plenaries, hardly ever any real debate. Was organised along national lines. Each country got delegated a certain number of speakers. We should change this. In the forum. More crucially what do we do around it. The construction of networks is very crucial. It has happened spontaneously, but I think we can facilitate them coming together on a european level. Esp if we want to challenge the EU. Rather than have one proposition at end, should have networks. Not just once a year at an event in novmeber.

Eric, SFLemanique, geneve: je trouve that the relationship between the seminars and the plenaries has to be reconsidered. I think the two have different functions and I think that the plenaries have as purpose to continue the ideas of individuals, they are the ones who carry ideas. They have a role important. 2. the relationship between forum and SM assembly, speak about the dynamic of debate. Il faut chercher des interactions. The whole discussion must become a movment politique. Ils sont tres reducteur et tres redable. I believe that the counter power in the national level pose a certain type of problems, to move the actual system is essential. (me confused?? Sorry!)

Jane STWC: steering committee welcomes this assembly. Very serious questions to address over next months. Particularly participation. Impressed that 1,000 EE were at Paris. This will be even more of a problem in UK. Turkish people can’t even get visas to exit. Over the last two years there has been huge participation of section of population, the Muslim population, here today not very many people represented. Must make sure this is a central priority. We have to consider how we debate this. A young woman who came to paris to speak faced real problems because she was wearing a hijab. GLA has provided a political space. My worry is how long is that support going to last. There is no section of the british state that is going to give us any money at all. We are in fact facing something where the trade unions are turned to as well as others. It in not a question of going to the branch meetings have to go to national structures. If we can’t manage it, we have to say we can’t deliver what we want to deliver.

Petros Constantino: Greece STWC: we have to be very proud about the mouvement we are building. Our power to mobilise in the streets, our imagination. Also in the way that we debate. For me Florence and the paris esf, we have to speak in political terms and the fights we give. Paris esf was success because the French activists were involved I the strike movement against their gov’t. in support of gey/lesbian movement. This is our power. I have been a member of the programme group fro two years, this group has to be more flexible and more up date, the way to choose the speakers ahs to be this way. Has to give space to activists who are fighting on the streets. We have to use both. I am not against academics, but we have to find new ways of organising open debate. Not to be afraid of debate. We have crucial political choices ahead of us. Are we going to build a political party or a mass movement to challenge? There are more options than this. Let’s give space to everyone. Money: there are ways. We have to find these ways. Let be based on activists.

Katya: sumac center in Nottingham: I was disturbed in Paris by the meeting at the end [the social movement assembly] where the speakers stood up and announced the decisions made. I have found no mention of those meetings in the programme. Platform to speak was closed. I think we have to be transparent and easy to understand from the beginning. There is a discussion document going around about this, I think, so I won’t say anything about that. I think what we’ve seen is that they ignored us after all the big demos, we need to start looking forward ..Direct Action. (lots of claps)

Johnathan Neale: GR [also SWP] I am glad we will have consensus on some things already. We are uniting as a movement that will become a movement that will try to stop schroeder, blair, bush, etc… I think for building in Britain I want to say I am not worried about the money if we mobilise. We cannot say there is a blueprint for mobilising. They way we will get proper disabled access is by getting the disabled network of activists to do this. We have to go out and get all these groups involved. We have to say that this is the body that took the anti-war movement to the streets. If we are to raise the money at the top, it depends on how many speakers we send to all the meetings, etc.. and we say give us money. People have to think that this process is self organising, not that the answers will come from the top, but that if you are in the group you are responsible for it. Bush visit something like genoa. . .

Helena Targeson: Swedish ESF coordination [also attac Sweden]: evaluation process in Sweden. Feedback from paris has been mixed. People who came for the first time, were more enthusiastic than those who had been at an international SF before. They felt we are not evolving enough. Mostly plenaries were problems. Like to comment on how we organised the plenaries. We who have been working on the european level, new where we were going when we did it, but none of us were ready to step down and take the global responsibility for our own issues. We used consensus as a way to avoid difficult decisions, resulting in us saying lets put one more speaker. We are not satisfying the people that are coming to listen and to take part in the debate. I would like to agree with what tina has said about the importance of facilitating specific networks, not the overall large singular platform. People don’t necessarily want to be onto one platform. There was too much of a sense of your paying to be allowed to enter, not a sense of we are building this space together, please contribute.

Chris Nineham [GR, SWP]: openness is a principle of the ESF. we need to have a much bigger assembly in jan that continues to enlarge the process. It is not just about how we organise, In fact I don’t think it is mainly about how we organise I think it is about making it accessible to all the people who have been mobilised over the past few years, muslims, etc…. That’s not mainly about process. We need to make sure that everyone is clear it is against racism, war and against neolib. The second thing is to actively go out and talk to the TU and the peace movement, the Muslim community. Not just create an open space but to do leg work. Crucially to go to the trade unions, these orgs have money and we need money. Last thing about demos. Last two ESFs were successful because they had massive demo. We’ve got to have a demo.

(chair interrupts the meeting:)
DH: what I propose to do is to take the proposals for locations, and then continue this and extend meeting to ½ past two.

Christina, WDM: part of the seattle to Brussels network and active member of UK trade justice network. Finance: I don’t want to put a damper on anything, but after having consulted a lot of other NGOs, our budgets are already set, and the ESF is not on the schedule. I would like to discuss the timetable we have and ask whether that is really realistic. 2. workshops: problem is too many events where people speak at you, and workshops is a space where interaction is possible and makes for a meaningful space. I put it to the WGs to reflect on that and see if we can actually make it different next year.

DH: Ok… proposals for hosting ESF in the UK: we have Redmond from the GLA. We’ll take any others afterwards.
Redmond: I’m speaking for London proposal. Policy director in the office of the mayor of London. The umbrella of all the mayor supports, the GLA, the TU in London support, anti-racist movement supports the bid. We’ve only just started to look at these issues. Need to grasp what a colossal task this will be. We are not going to be able to do it in London in the same way as France and Italy. We will have to do this differently. Cannot raise 3mil euros in public funds. Mayors budget must be voted by London assembly, and there is no chance they will vote this to the ESF. the borrows in London are not of the same character as in Paris. They will not give the support. Accommodation in donated gymnasiums in paris, in London they have all be privatised. The mayor has asked religious faith groups that have considered the use of their halls as space for accommodating people. We’ve been down to a number of places that could accommodate the entire event, but it is extraordinary expensive. We have looked at Alexander palace which is a municipal hall with a traction of hosting labour events. If for example we had 20,000 places for meetings per day. Half total attendants in meetings at any one time, that could be done by using the halls and placing the marquees. 700,000 pounds. If we had a slightly smaller event. 550,000£. Just Alexander palace is 280,000£. There are cheaper ways of doing it. Perhaps theatres during the day. Have spoken to some theatre orgs. Interpreting: 400,000£.. travel to bring people: 146,000£, equipment: 250,000£. As we approach the event by end of oct nov, to employ staff. We will need a team of full time staff who will need to live eat drink etc… and therefore need to be paid. When we sit down with the paris comrades we will probably see more costs we haven’t anticipated. We may have to aim for a smaller event. GLA cannot donate so much money but it could meet some of our work we do anyway . . . we could lawfully allocate sums of money from those budgets to help host the forum. That would not be half a million pounds. Substantial but not ½ mil. We need to consider a big central venue. Make big central venue with some small. Choice will be dictated by costs. Mayor of London was elected as being expelled from the labour party. May not have support form others. Central org for the ESF. central pot for money, central planning. Venues booked from a central place. We can’t say right now that we can definitely host the ESF. we can only say that we would like to have until mid feb to work on this. We don’t want to put money in until it is a realistic political proposition. There is an enormous job to do. To talk to the TU, to the boroughs, we acre committed to do this in the GLA. Once we have these commitments, we can ask ‘now please right your checks…’
Other way to do it, it could be decentralised. Could have a central large venue with a number of halls etc… which would operate in the most inclusive may. Then each org that cannot contribute to a central fund can contribute to a fund to ‘book their space’. To a separate fund for the other spaces. There must be a commitment to solidarity to people from EE who cannot come otherwise. I think we want to make this proposal, I think there is the enthusiasm from many orgs I’ve mentioned and other orgs I don’t even know of. It will be only so much hot air, if we don’t get commitment from these people. In the meantime, we will need to function. 4,000£ for this meeting today. Not recuperated by the contributions this morning. We can’t do it unless we are absolutely practical about solving the basic problems, esp. money.

DH: we are in a new situation to host the ESF, before there was money, but it is important that countries without money can host the ESF too. It may have to be on a smaller scale. The GLA are being incredibly generous. We need to know if there is any other proposal for a location for a ESF in the UK. Because if there is no other in this particular way and thought out in this way, than I ask that we accept this one.

Hands.

Speaker 1 from floor: (at this point a roaming microphone was introduced, no idea from where) can we maybe host the forum in different cities simultaneously in UK?
(room gets noisy)

Mariangela: all we have for the London bid is an estimate for the costs. London is in the same situation as other cities.
(noise, unrest)
Chris Nineham tells DH to ask if she has a proposal. DH asks: do you have a proposal?
(noise, unrest)
M: We can make other arrangements, we don’t have to spend £s on Alexander palace.
(noise, unrest)
CW: can people please stop shouting out. Context of our discussion is that this meeting is to decide where in the UK. And can people please listen.

SP2 from floor: still would like to argue for decentralisation. Why can’t it be held at contiguous locations. I think so far it has excluded a lot of us, who don’t have time to travel or money.
(Claps.)

Pierre Khalfa (Attac France, ESF cord committee): I want to say that after the proposal we had a discussion between all europeans and not just UK what do we do together for the next FSE. The crucial q we have is that it is not possible to have public funds, You need to have to time to discuss how to create the ESF. The deadline for a decision. We must know if it is possible or not to have a forum in UK probably London. When do we decide to take a final decision to create a budget for the construction of the budget for the next ESF.

Hilary Wainwright; Red pepper: we just want it to happen. I live in Manchester, but I am still in favour of saying it is going to happen in London. AT least there is a base a kind of funding. Let’s accept it’s London but be realistic and reconsider in febuary and in the meantime lets put all our energies into making this forum relevant to all the localities, not just in UK but in EU. In one sense it’s a good situation to not have public funds. At a local level that corporate power is taking the ground from under our feet. It is beginning everywhere. We need to develop a forum relevant to these local issues so that local groups will decide to put in some funding because they will see real results from the Forum.

(Alex Callinicos moves to take the microphone)
DH: it is now almost 1pm. Anyone who wants to speak can speak now, but anyone who wants to defer to tomorrow, please do.
Alex Callinicos: starts to speak
(Major shouting from floor: you have already spoken, get him off!!! Get him off!!!)
CW: This is unacceptable. let people speak. (Claps.)

Alex callinicos [swp]: it is time to stop talking and to start working. We have no other proposal on the table. (Shouts, grunts) this is not a serious way to approach it. When people come from all over Europe you cannot have a forum all over the UK. Lets commit ourselves to London and try to raise the money and then we can come back and tell the Europeans whether we can actually have it in London or not.

Jeremy Dewar: L5thI, recently resigned from GR: want to address the comments from the sister from Nottingham. There was a lot of discontent on the lack of democracy. Especially the rushed assembly on the final day. Our proposal is that the assembly be given more time and where there is disagreement, there should be votes. 1. because if we expect working class to put money in for a talk fest it has to be related to action. These people will only pay if the ESF delivers action. In paris two disagreements, whether we should call for immediate withdrawl of the troops and whether to have a day of strikes. Because there was no agreement the mass of people did not get a chance to debate or discuss this.

Julie: St-denis SF. my intervention has nothing to do with money. 2 problematique. To work with the people in st denis and at the same time to work in the organising of the ESF. We had difficulty to be recognised by the committee of the ESF. To sign the charter and to be recognised by the programme itself. We need to have better working relationship between what the local SFs say and the ESF. a system of consultation. Orient the programme and adapt the methods of speaking that has to be adapted to everyone. Le mode de parole. Establish a method of consultation.

Dave: description of his group. 3 things. 1. inclusivity, diversity, transparency. 1. I was told as a disabled person not to come to Paris ESF. Disability is not just about accessibility. Hidden disabilities. 2. diversity. Costs. In this country we have a massive well developed grassroots movement. Money can be raised this way. 3. transparency. It looked like the decision that we made in Paris in 10th, had already been made somewhere else, and can people please say what political orgs they are from.

Istanbul SF: we expanded our forces. 80 people in paris under this banner. One was president of big TU conf. In turkey it made a good effect. First, the financial problem. Flight tickets are really expensive for us. Second, was the translation problem. Not enough translation into Turkish. They couldn’t understand. Most important, there is a problem the French embassy rejected half of our applications, and now the UK it is much more important, they have completely stopped issuing touristic visas for us after bombings. Lots of people were complaining about the meeting places. It must be centralised. Meetings must be close to each other. Now we are preparing a demonstration in june. We will try to blockade that meeting. Propose to hold 3rd prep meeting in june in Istanbul.

CW: can we continue the discussion after lunch?
-There will be no translation after lunch.
-we can arrange ourselves for the translation.
Proposal:
[Stuart Hodkinson, red pepper]: simple proposal. Can we as a meeting accept London, with an evaluation period of 2 months. It is not certain London can be done.
DH: ok, it has been accepted, we carry on.

Mauritzio: Forum del teatro: I think 1st q is if there is no public space and funds why do we speak of a forum in London. We are completely dependent on the system to change the world. It costs 3mil euros to change the world? We arrived here and the direction of the debate. We don’t have the lux to continue the political discussion. It is not a question only for the english. It is a crise eueopeen. Une changement de direction radicale. Je te donne deux suggestion. Je suis pas d’accord. Image comme de glad. Qqch that is the process european must engage again to change something by their expression and the communication of reality. We have already gagne un processus. If we don’t leave with a decision together. Larzac, a couté tres peu d’argent. It is possible to create a process alternative without so much money. We have to pay a lot of attention to that. We leave here and we’ll have done nothing.

CW: can anyone who can provide translation after lunch please come and see us. We’ll take a break for lunch now for 1 hour.

Meeting ends: 1:35pm.
________

Afternoon Saturday 13 Dec 2003:

Meeting room has a different set up: Chairs rearranged into a circle.
Comment that the translation equipment only works faced one way.
Translation question, anyone need Spanish?

Ana: the fact that this esf is taking place here has been a forced decision on me. We think this is a hierarchical decision. Very strong grassroots movement here in the UK. We can sort out things so that it doesn’t cost so much money. I don’t understand how things have been organised so far, why it costs so much. Translation, I would do it for free. I do know that there are a lot of empty buildings. Mayor is the one who would call police to evict us. Can we ask the mayors office to collaborate by giving us a list of empty buildings in London we can use. I know there are people who would work on this.

Redmond: GLA: mayor has no control of police or army in London.

Raul Patel: Unison London region: we welcome the ESF here in London and we are a friendly bunch of people here in London. Practical note, we note that within our own region we have serious proposals to donate a substantial amount of money to this operation. And we will try to do this. There is a bureaucracy, and it takes sometimes a few months. The money just from TUs is not going to resolve that issue. We can also go and speak to other trade union branches, strike action, and take strikers around to ensure that the strike is a success. Actually, during the miners strike the Londoners accommodated thousands of miners who needed to raise money for their dispute. There has not been any money from the anti-racist movement from here in britian. Workers beer company on board to raise money as well. Need to use these as way to mobilise for the ESF. London is very diverse. Refuse collectors are French Algerians, and they will be happy to have an event in French too.
???

Alex Gordon RMT: national executive: I apologise that I can’t address those sat behind me unlike the speakers this morning I can’t address all the people in the room. The money question: it is quite clear that there is going to be a considerable financial gap that needs to be filled. What I want to say to the outside of UK visitors, there is a very important debate going on inside the TU movement about the funds. Political funds within TU. Debate about the uses of that money. We have laid down at our national conference that we support the ESF process. We embrace that process. We want to use our political funds for this type of event. Other unions have a similar types of funds. There is a very big debate going on in the TU movement. There are a lot of people angry about the way the process has been org, and I would say get over it. (claps) We need to have this discussion about neoliberalism and we need to get on in organising it. If we are going to have the slogan AWIP (another world is possible), then we should at least believe that a forum is possible. (General unrest, shouts). London is the only actual offer we’ve had. There is a role for plenary sessions, debates and confrontations. Maybe fewer speakers, and chairs and more quality control (claps). Product of SF paris is a manifesto joint against privatisation of railways.

Willy cumming: Irish anti-war: we have had small delegations at both paris and Florence. Enriching. We, ireland, it’s not me, a meeting today in Dublin between people that 6 months ago wouldn’t have been seen dean in a room together. I’d appeal to the comrades to think seriously about the debate. It’s a provincial debate. This is the EU SF, people from all over Europe. It is easier for me to come to London than anywhere else in europe (outcry). And London is the centre of the beast. (claps). Raising the money is a political question. Getting the commitment from people to go out and raise the money. The longer this is dragged out the less chance of money.

Jean baptiste: No vox: reseau de mouvement de lutte de sans papiers qui se crier pendant the Forum. We want to say that we must find a way to make it less expensive. 6million cest beaucoup. Trouvant le moyen pour reducer le cout. Des gens qui travaille peuvent pas venir parce-que cest pendant la semaine. Donc, on sait bien que la dynamique… I am happy that there is a debate to look for money maybe the movement will be more generous. Good news. No vox, Intergalactique, we want there to be a space plus libre where people can go for debates less constructed. And also to have parties and fun.

Luciano Muhlbauer [RC, Cobas]: we have to look for some solution. Everybody has to work together. We can call it a political problem, they need to find a way how to work together. The important thing is that everybody agrees that everybody has to work together. Reality is that today we cannot discuss about the proposal because today there is no proposal. It is a risk if we don’t have the money now. We cannot take this risk. We have to take the time to say, we need a deadline. It’s a UK discussion. The Europeans cannot part. It’s normal. UK movement has to find a solution. Here in the UK you should work out a concrete proposal where we can meet again, and I think we have to meet in London again. It is difficult to go to another place if we also have to discuss ???
I think tomorrow morning we have to discuss the issues of the soc mov and the initiates that we are building together. Tomorrow morn that should be a great issue. And today how to go on working to find a solution.

Teresa Hoskyns: what we’ve realised is that we have two very big problems. 1. we don’t have a movement. 2. we don’t have a proposal. 1. we have to start thinking about the movement as a network, not a coalition. Credit to the 2mil who got up on 15 feb morning, and not to lindsey german. Everything should be open. That’s the only way we’ll build something. 2. Money: we need to be sceptical of the proposal of the GLA. They gave us the room for free, but charged us 2,000£ charged for security. We need to think of a way away from the mayors centralised committee and the stop the coalition (she meant the STWC), and maybe towards something more like the BGG (big green gathering), and we need to think about what we can actually do. We can build something a lot better than a cross between a resist fest and rally.

Pierro: je pense que ce matin sont arrivé deux chose. 1. plus imortante. Il ya bien des forces anglais qui travaille ensemble a chercher de faire partir le forum anglais. Un part, anglais large. Si on a pas ca on a pas un forum. En IT nous avons eu tous les force. Meme on france il ya eu ca.
Sophie: meme!
Others: il a raison! Meme!
2. la municipalite de londres a change la position. Cest une question de lieu. Cest a dire cest divise dans des banlieu different. Un lieu concentré cest important. On doit attendre de decider. On va donner a les anglais le temps pour dire cest sur. Un mois. Vous travaillez ensemble. Alex a dit on doit tavailler, mais on doit deceider commet travailler. La chose important cest que vous travailler ensemble.

-I want to join the list of speakers, what do I do?
CW:
Problem of translation because person from floor doesn’t have microphone
CW: Lets just keep going.
Scanda in spain: bid for London sounds like its quite a real bid, but I think its important that funding is accompanied by political conditions. A bid to hold the forum here should be accompanied by a statement by the GLA to promise not to persecute any of us and to drop charges against the mayday organisers. We need to not have security at the door, and translation system that requires having people passports. Not fair for the sans papiers. (chair asks him to wind up) I think I’ve been ask to wind up because I said something controversial. (Laughs.)

Pierre Khalfa [attac france]: angleterre cest le coeur de neoliberalism. Nous duvons travailler ensemble aujourdhui. La voie du FSE cest un voie que fait un force nouvelle et qui doit continue etre ouvert. La problem cest un problem financielle. Je pense qu’il faut faire deux choses au moins aujourdhui, we see that the only serious proposition for Uk is londres. So we need a plan of work that starts on the proposal of London. One that is financially viable. A deadline to finalise what we have decided. We take a position in principle that the forum takes place in London in 2 months. We meet again here and we take the final decision in two months. This way we can see if it is actually possible before deciding in 2 months.

DH: a proposal by Pierre Khalfa. He’s saying that the London bid is the strongest bid, its not final, and there are other people who believe that there are other possibilities. We have to back it but be open to the possibilities that other things are possible. So if we do have the means in two months. Is there consensus? (asked 3 times.) Then: is there anyone opposed?

Christine Bucholtz: I can say representing quite a big number of organisations and TUs. . . ? There were many financial problems with the paris bid too. I think we should start with the working groups so that we can get organised. I think the national coalitions could collect money to make it possible for unemployed etc to be able to come to the forum. I think it is very important to take into account that this is a european event.

DH: we have reached a decision. Does everyone on the list still want to speak? OK

Dave Timms WDM: I would like to ask other people from the other proposals to come on board for the London bid. If by march 1st we decide that if we cannot meet our timetable, we should decide that we host the ESF in 2005 instead. Many advantages. NGO budgets, parks, time to build in the uk the local social fora. Say this coming from Manchester. I have shared your concerns about process, but we are now together in the same room and an open process and we have to move on from there now. I’d like you to consider that as a proposal.

-can we have an answer to the proposal?

CW: I thought we agreed a way forward, so we’re not now reopening the discussion.
DH: the decision that was made in Europe was that it would be Uk and then Greece.

-in a closed meeting!

CW: the agreement for ESF in 2004 wasn’t at a closed meeting, it was at a general assembly before the Paris ESF. That decision has been made by the european general assembly.
[Point of information: what Claire says is true. The final decision to host the ESF in London was made in an open meeting on Nov 10th in Paris. There was also a previous open meeting to discuss this on Sept 30th in Paris. However, the first two meetings held to discuss the ESF 2004 were held in a small room during the European Assembly (Sept 27-30th) and were closed to the general public. However, those of us who insisted on coming after having found out about the meetings were granted permission to stay, as observers, to the meeting by Sophie Zafari]

DH: if the money hasn’t been raised by march we are in a different situation than we are in a diff situation and we have to consider it then.

?: I think that it is more important to make sure that it is open to as many people as possible than where it is exactly. It is about compromise, movement building. We need to pull together and make the best proposal that we can at this late stage.

Katya: I agree that we have to pull together, but I don’t like the idea that it should happen at any cost. Maintain political integrity. Concerned about reliance on GLA, and if ken loses may elections, or joins LP. Want to be more creative. We regularly have events of this size in the UK, Glastonbury, etc??, BGG is organised differently. I also think that we shouldn’t rule out the squatting possibility. Real social movements. I think it was really ingenuous of the GLA to say they have no control over what the police do.
-Translation problems. Speaker was speaking too fast.

Name?: Socialist resistance: I want to support the London bid. Most ethnically diverse place in UK. We should have it in the heart of the beast. In involving a wider range of people we should have borough SFs so that community activists of all kinds are brought in so that it is not just the political parties. Not support for LSF that sit in rooms for five hours and reach no solution. Not groups with narrow social base like LSF now. We need to build a movement built of real local SFs.

Redmond GLA: the london police are totally outside the control of the GLA. Chief of police is elected by national govt. on postponing to 2005, there are two issues. 1. GEA decision. (???) 2. the TUs will be involved in the general election in 2005, and they would be unhappy. (comments in audience). We need to concentrate on solving those practical problems. Need an answer before the 1st of march. We will give our answer before then. I gave a stark picture earlier on purpose, but to give a better picture, itlay earned 590,000 euroes from entry. 130,000 euro in donations, ??euros from merchandising. We can set a registration that helps us to bridge the gap between our budget and the money we need. Tony blair is not going to fund this. We have in London and in the UK many musicians etc who support the ESF. Workers Beer C are on board for the fundraising aspect of the event. The mayoral elections: he would like to be the mayor after june the 10th. He stands in an election of 5million people. Latest opinion pole. 44% ken, 25% cons. 16 %liberal 10% labour, green 5%. When we spoke to Alexander palace, we will have to pay 10% immediately and we will have to sign a legally binding contract which will be signed before election.

DH: I am sorry to all who did not get a chance to speak there is a plenary session tomorrow to discuss. (one person on list didn’t get to speak). I’ll summarise the decision: (he doesn’t know.)
Redmond: I think the decision was to hold the esf in London however not to make a final decision until march by which time financial aspects will have to be resolved.

Javier asks again, what exactly are we deciding?

Chaos.

CW: we will have another gen assembly meeting in march to make a decision. And if not London are there any other viable possibilities. After that we will have to take a decision after that.

Chaos.

Leo Gabriel (Austrian SF): I support the proposal of peirre and others. That in 2004 in Britain there will be the forum, however, I think it would be wise to have a worst case scenario in case we don’t have the possibility to do the forum in UK. We should come with the possibility of discussion to have it take place somewhere else. (unrest). We need the security that it will take place in one place or another. What are we going to do from here until the next meeting the first of march. Raise money is only one activity. We have to engage in a process reflection of how to build to modify to construct the Esf happening wherever it should happen at the time it should happen. The Austrian SF has been in charge for making a proposal for a process. We envision a process based on the different structures on a regional and national level that intergrate (CW interrupts: can we please be quiet?)
Leo continues: there has been a proposal to structure this process in a way where people are sitting together in a way that people can make a proposal. (the microphone gets taken out of his hands by DH)

DH: I’m sorry you have to stop this.

Sound technician: interpreters have to leave now, they were only supposed to be here until 1:30. round of applause for them.

Oscar Reyes: too many people and problems. First an announcment. Just a sec.

Name?? :Artists against the war at clockhouse pub at 82 leatherlane at 7pm. Comedy and music and booze.

Oscar: situation we no longer have translation. We can discuss many of the issues raised in the workshops. that’s the point on the agenda now.
SUPER chaos

(Mariangela being denied ability to speak. Mini queue of people wanting to speak behind her.) M: There was no consensus! Everyone shouting. Sit down. Sophie Zafari given mic for a moment. But no translation. Lots of people saying SHHH SHHHH SHHH. Finally a little less noise.

CW: takes mic again. It seems to me that the clear feeling of the meeting is that we have reached consensus.

Cries, no we did not ever reach consensus.

Sophie: I suggest that until 1 march we leave for UK to find a solution, but we don’t have a solution for after. We wait until the first of march to see if it is London or not or 2004 or not. I think right now it is not very useful to have a working group because it is not very useful for the europeans. It is not useful for us. What would be useful would be have a discussion on process and mobilisation, because tomorrow will not be enough. Stop this disc, and now have another discussion about mobilisation and proposal that german people have to explain.

Oscar Reyes: taking one person to voice the objection to the consensus.

Mariangela [Manchester SF, RC]: My proposal is that there is no consensus on ESF London. We are going to explore what other possibilities. This finding the place is not a matter of a person or one group taking the responsibility all the groups take this responsibility for exploring other possibilities. If on the 1st of march there is no agreement, we go for 2005.

Hilary Wainwright [Red Pepper]: we actually have a consensus, if we’re serious about making it work we should get into our working groups (claps).

Oscar: there is a lot to be discussed and we don’t have . . .

Major Chaos.

Oscar can’t finish his sentences.

Oscar: Workshops are as follows: room 1: enlargment mobilisation. Room 2: disc cultural issues, room 3: practicalities discssuion. Room 3: working group about process. Can we now proceed with that? (people start to move)
We will start again tomorrow with the report backs on the WGs.

Meeting ends in unrest. People head to the various working groups.
________

Sunday, 14th December, EA day two:

I was late. I arrived 10:45am.
Before I came there were report backs from the working groups.
Facilitators are Claire Williams (UNISON, SWP) ‘CW’ in what follows, Oscar Reyes (signs of the times, various) ‘OR’ in what follows and Patrica Lamour (network of ?) ‘PL’ in what follows. Room arranged with the chairs in rows again and a microphone at the front. A long queue already there.
Alex callinicos (SWP, project K) is speaking when I enter and sit down.
Next speaker is:

Alex Gordon RMT: I want to ask a question about how to go forward from some of the report backs we just heard. The person reporting back from the practicalities group mentioned money. Last ESF in FR the French initiative group had a two or three tier system to allow for these tasks to go on. I think the cost of affiliation was 700Euros for national union, 400 for a regional, 100 for a local. Don’t know if these figures are correct. We need a set rate for organisations to get involved. Want to be able to return to my union and say now it is serious and it costs this much. These working groups need to continue, but from the perspective of UK we also need a working group for the first UK assembly (UKA). We need to establish a fifth working group (WG from now on).

(sara WOMBLES at desk asking chairs something)

OR (Oscar Reyes): is there a response from the French on the question of payment?

Marianne Ness: League des droites d’hommes: we had payments, but we also had a statement on what conditions we want to work together, some of you must be ready to write a declaration and the orgs must sign this declaration and pay. In france It was between 100 and 700, (the league paid 1000-comment from floor).

OR: are there any points of clarification at the moment before we continue?

Brig: We have a conflict of dates. the programme group and the UKA are having a meeting on jan 10th.

CW: we’re trying to end the discussion on the workshops

- why 100 euros in france?

Pierre Burge: league droite homme: in the work done by the working group, some things were not clear in the debate. In france we had an assembly francais and at the level of Europe we also had reunion european. We decided despite everything, to organise groups to work on everything so as not to lose time. I ask myself now, if there is a group de travail to organise the jan 10, is it just UK or Europe. I hope it is european. Personally, I think we need a group du travaile europeen that meets often.
???

Guy taylor [GR, SWP]: Question about the filming of the meeting. There is someone filming the meeting and I’m not sure everyone is okay with this.
David Edmond was filming and got chance to introduce himself and say why he was filming.
OR: is anyone opposed to the filming?
Several hands.
OR: we don’t have the time to discuss, so can we please just stop the filming.

Luciano Muhlbauer [cobas, rifundazioni comunista]: we mixed a little bit in this meeting Uk and EU level. But now we have to separate these things otherwise we are going to do strange things. We have to find a solution for how to work from here until march 1st. I think it isn’t useful to have a working group on european level. All discussion you do in UK, you put it on the Eu mailing list. You can put in the report of the discussions and then at the next meeting we will form european groups. You have to decide on the UK level, but I have some suggestions. I think you have to decide to start to work in the WGs. The suggestion is to do maybe one mailing list on the UK level to have a communication on a UK level. Practicality group in the UK has a very big issue about the venue, but it cannot be an issue for only the practicalities group. Other suggestion is that you should avoid to have centralisation on what to do on the local level. You cannot decide what to do centrally. In some places if it is ok to have local SF, it is ok, cannot decide this centrally, will come from below.

CW: I have been asked by a member of staff, that some people have been rude to the security staff. I think that is unacceptable, they are working on a weekend and are probably not well paid, and we should thank them. Claps.

Sara: [wombles] I think the q of groups paying to be a part of the assembly is ok for groups that have money, but if we want to keep the small grassroots groups and individuals here, we cant have a required payment. Yes we have to think about money, but if we’re organising a conf about anti-capitalist, we have to acknowledge that people without money have to be able to part as everyone else.

??: I think we’re stuck in a contraction between doing thing quick and doing things well. We are just at the beginning of trying to build an inclusive process. If we are going to do an ESF in London it is critical that we build a large involvement, churches, anti-racist groups, etc. From my perspective it is critical that the TU movement is here. The quality of communication is critical. it isn’t helpful if we don’t use our existing communication paths. Some groups can’t already begin. ???? We haven’t got that broad range of inclusiveness yet. ???? (I think I lost him here). I think we’re getting a schedule of dates before we have an initiation committee. GLA is a good ally. (unrest)

Kate Hudson: CND [Communist Party of Britain]: widening the social bases, and raising money. 1. we have strong and united social movement sin Britain and massive united trade unions. Very diverse movement indeed. What is lacking is an awareness of the SF process. We need to address that. If we can bring the community groups and TUs on board we can work towards this. But it is also essential for the financial side to have as many orgs as possible in the process. I support alex’s proposal and the previous speaker that we follow the French example, we have should have a sliding scale of financial participation. Not to exclude small groups.


Chris Nineham [GR,SWP]: I think we have had a fantastic start but be have a mountain to climb before 1 alex’s proposal is roughly right. There is a very diverse movement in this movement, hackney Turkish group that was here has to get centrally involved. We need to have a structure that people understand that they can plug into. Three criteria: we talked about the WGs, they are important, but we also have to have an organising group. 1 it would have to reflect the different sections of the movement, can’t be arbitrary people just coming together, has to have ngos, TUs, dema, MAB, has to have people from the SMs (social movements) as well. We have to have the committee already. Even than costs money. Its not a great deal of money 200euros. This committee has to be based on being practical and moving forward.

Tina: CPGB: we decided earlier that this EA can’t make any decisions on working groups etc… nevertheless we need organisation to move forward. Can’t sit around for 6 weeks. We should have another interim working group to plan for the UKA. Maybe draft a text. Prepare for the UKA in jan. the key meeting. They should start meeting now. And they are (posted on the wall). If we decide to set up a structure it has to be open to everyone. It will be self selecting anyway. People who only want to come and talk wont stay on it anyway. Dates: jan 24th, because of Christmas. European assembly march 6/7th. One day WGs and one day assembly.

Pierro Italy: For us there is no doubt that either the forum we are doing it in London or not at all. We think that we have to do the forum in 2004. we have to do them every year. There is no problem with this. 2. most important thing between now and march is the european assembly because we must work all together. Very positive. We have to and can work together. We have to have militance and to have this we have to work together. We don’t have to get together in January, because in Italy we have plans for feb, but we can’t do them. Afterwards we changed it. 3. we’ve got difficulties from paris. We have to have rooms which are capable of holding enough people. We have to have people paid behind us. I will finish. We don’t want to the police to fight with us because they are doing the work, we don’t want to have fights with the public service. London is the most expensive city in London so we need funds.

??: I think there are things that have been good. La premier chose cest de faire a mailing list et un group de travail britannique et de payer un minimum d’argent. Et un part democratique de payment. Comme on a dit hier, on a dit que le forum nest pas un evenement mais un processus. On est en trein de construire un mouvement. Cest normal, on a pas un autre lieu pour prendre des decision que ici. Je veux parler de la mobilisiation de 20 mars. Le mouvment anti-guerre.
OR: wrap up.
Comment on fait la mobilisation pour 20 mars et le caravan a iraq.

Guy Taylor [GR,SWP]: participation in the UK. Yesterday we were discussing raising 2 million pounds. Everyone should play a role in raising that money. The structure most people want is an accountability to the UKAssembly and EA. I don’t think 100e is beyond the capabilities of any group of raising. It involves some kind of financial contribution for any group. It’s a stumbling block we can get over. Just raise it.

Jill GR Scotland: practical points: on the agenda for the next EUA, we need to have a discussion on the women’s assembly. Second, finance, I calculated, there is 1,4000 Unison branches = 140,000£ so it is possible. SFs, in scotland, there is a ScottishSF, next meeting in july, and if they want to be involved that’s great, but it doesn’t mean that the SF is privileged over the other orgs, TUS, NGOs etc… The other orgs part of the scottish mobilisation committee. I want to talk about representation. I am here as a official representative of GR, I speak on behalf of that org, but I am also a member of other groups, but I am not here as a formal voice from those orgs. I am also from Scotland and once we set up a group I hope we can set up people to represent us. That is not to say that individuals can’t participate, but it is to have clarity from where you come from.

Matthias: Attac Hungary and Hungary SF: key question today: Trojan horse syndrome. It means that the charter of principles says that no parties can participate, but it is clear that the parties are in the movement, and it is clear that they are forming civil orgs and coming in. we have to be clear. Are parties included and can they participate or not. (claps.) I am a communist but I am not a party member. I participate in this because I am a leftist though. I only want to raise another issue of the solidarity fund. Very good idea because otherwise we could not come here. But we don’t want to rely only on the solidarity fund and for this reason we have created a foundation for fundraising to get financial resources available at his period a lot of EU money can be got for different projects. Thank you for sol fund and for paris and Florence orgs that we could participate.

PL:?

OR: can people please address the two q of payment sliding scale and date

Alex callinicos from project K [also SWP]: the european sf process has been an enormous success, critical is to have one every year. There is a lot on emphasis on the need to discuss the process. In my experience the process works best when we discuss what we’re doing and we do it at the same time. We need to work at same time rather than abstract discussion. It has been an open process, and open assemblies will have to continue. I think 24th of Jan will make it easier to build broad assembly. I am in favour of a sliding scale. 1. because we need money. To function because making a contribution is a sign of commitment to building the ESF.

Mariangela: ManchesterSF [rifundazioni comunista]: 1. Comment on the Social Forums in Britain. They are not a group against the others, they are space for all the other groups to go to as well as individuals. It is not a matter of being one group against another. We want to be inclusive I think it is important that all the working groups don’t meet on weekday, but on sat so all people can come and the meetings should move around the country so that other people can come. We need an interim group which is completely open, we don’t need an org group. I don’t think the money can be a matter of exclusion from the process. But it can be a prerequisite. There are people and org that haven’t got enough money. If we can decide that all the working groups meet on the 10th and UKA on the 24th . . . ??

Jeremy Dewar, League for the 5th International: I think the idea of self organised spaces for the seminars, is a good idea. People kept saying there weren’t many eco groups in the esf. But I met quite a few, if we have an open space designated for the eco groups to meet and one for the TUs and the anti-racist groups etc. then those seminars can draw up proposals for the last day. We must make a decision about the local units of the UK mob. How many ‘dema’s are there that we are not in touch with. All the UKA will be otherwise, will be that the big orgs with money will be the only ones able to take part. (claps).

(The next two entries are of rather bad quality, esp the second. I didn’t have a translation headset, and they spoke too quickly for my poor French. Sorry!)
Dominique? : FS: 3 points:le FSE londres doit etre pluraliste. Assoicaition syndicat, pour avoir l’argent. Ca n’est pas simplement parce qu’ils s’interessent sur le demarche. Ils doivent etre sur la preparation de le forum. I believe that the forum must be pluralistic. 2. in regards to education. Moi j’était coordinatrice du coordination européen du education. Demande certain explication. Un réunion de 17 janvier. Reunion education qui non meme pas part a tous a paris. Cest pas un bon manier de commencer a travailler sur education. Il faut avoir quelles journees exterier du FSE, que sortir education de FSE, je comprends pas comment on peut sortir ce question. I think sincerely that we should all be concerned in education.

Name? (French FSE): Informatique internet: not just a committee initiative. We tried one month before the forum to arrange housing with local people, etc. des groups qui construiest le processus la. A Mumbai le system interpretation sera qui etait developee a Mumbai pour remplacer le system trop cher. Il ya un certain nombre des acteur. Des syandicals etc. et dans reseau au niveau european???????

??: Programme group some that was discussed that wasn’t reported back. These could be formulated better through mapping networks. The suggestion was put forward that there are already groups networked on campaigning. Quite often it is in the locality where networks are networking with trade unions where that really informs campaigns and ideas, so with that in mind we should think that SF more locally based my be more suited to feeding back that kind of information. At the same time I agree that we shouldn’t be centralising the Sf, but we should realise they can diffuse info.

Benny: Unite against fascism, anti-nazi league: London is a great city for SF. World city. 30 % non-white. And a lot of people work on anti-racist campaigning. You do have to have a bank account and I think that people will pay to those, and I think that having solidarity accounts allows people to be involved who haven’t been able to be involved. I think it is possible that orgs can contribute but it must be clear what we expect them to bring. We can give them the mountain to climb to bring them to London. If we approach it in that way, we are serious about it, I think the people who are angry about the world but also organised, I think we can raise the money. But those things must be open, transparent.

Arian: I don’t represent anyone but myself. Most important thing is that we have a successful forum, more important than the date. I’d like to say first from that, sliding scale is good, but no one should be excluded. Maybe the groups that have brought the Forum here, should pay more because they are well off. We should see what existing groups are already doing, and if we could bring these meetings in it would minimise the jobs for any central committee.

Anna: Global Women’s Strike: we can see from the women that are in our network, unwaged, Assylum seekers, from third world countries, a sliding scale as high as 100euros would definitely exclude many groups that cannot raise that much money. We have argued for an access group. The solidarity fund should be extended to third world. (claps) I think we should create an access fund to provide access for groups who have no money. The women’s day in paris strengthened the women’s presence in paris. However, the women who dominated the workshops were not grassroots women, we want to see the women who do the day to day nitty gritty work.

CW: can we please move, make it short:

Spanish Interpreter (missed her name, had to borrow headset, thanks David!): we are professional interpreters and volunteers and in paris we were 1000 interpretors in paris. And many were too. We would like to mention today that we are not machines, we are engaged in this process too. We work as a constant and we are working actively in this process. We are creating a babels network to be active in the programme for defining combining linguistics. When we discuss the programme, we are very involved. We think that each person has the right to express themselves in their own language that is why I am speaking Spanish. I would like to call out to all interpreters who are interested in linguistic diversity.

(Sorry next two entries are again of less quality, was too tired for fast French. No coffee. Hope I at least got the main points.)
Laurent Vaninni: permanet du FSE. Informatique: l’importance du réseau de programmer qui peut eventuellement create a service that is truly useful. Par exemple. Nora? interpreting free tools. De render visible le forum par le net immediatement. etre visible a exterier pour permettre un enlargissement. Je pense aussi que il faut reflicher de ne pas diviser le travail dans des petit nucleus du travail. L’information a failure in paris no one found a sufficient way to communicate interier de le process. Un challenge tres importante.

Jean baptiste No Vox: je crois que des chose va ce arranger un peu ici. Une bonne nouvelle. Larzac a couter un mille cent eruo et c’était aussi financer. Vous voyez, il faut etre tres practique si il ny a pas d’argent donné par le gouvernment cest mieux. Soit indepentant (claps). Cest ca qu’on veux. Vous allez reussir ce projet.

(David kindly lends me his headset again. After first few sentences, translators words)
Je veux dire la meme chose: On a refusé a paris de prendre des discussion sur la villette d’avoir la villette gratuit. Je pense que cest une bon chose de n’avoir pas. I said that I think that the summary a lot of things worked others didn’t. We said that you have to open to populations and to see others, an operation that was led without any financial resources. We had financial resources given to us from the social forum at the end. We were given 50,000 e, which was excellent. Culture is not only an entertainment, but it is also a political devise to open spaces and touch other people who are not already present in the movement, in the suburbs. It is communication for me, it is not just new tools, but it is also a relation constructing new space contrary.
(Facilitator asks him to wrap up) Yesterday I asked for the floor [yesterday he was denied this despite being on the list] and I didn’t force it, but now that I am speaking, I will do it. (Noise in room) Now you’re breaking my balls. Shit. (leaves)

Name? (British trade unionist): the further organisation of any forum requires the british comrades to get themselves sorted out. Four people have made a similar contribution Chris Nineham, kate hudson, alex gordon, laurie? :from a broad range or orgs. (laughs in audience). They have all suggested that the france model of a sliding scale should be used.

Redmond [GLA, mayor’s office]: I think we have shown that this process actually works. We have ended up with a timetable, and a series of commitments, and a decision. It has to be open, and we have to include the excluded, but this costs money. If we want to include the EE it will cost money. I don’t want to start an ideological debate. (a ‘why not?’ from audience). I think we’ll still be living in capitalism in nov. (‘pessimist!’ from audience, laughs). We need a minimum commitment from groups to put money forward. It is an absolute question for the seriousness of the proposal that all orgs pay. I’m more concerned that it is big enough for the big orgs, than how small it is for the small orgs. (claps). We should agree that there is an appropriate sliding scale so that the ones that really don’t have money are paid for by the ones at the top. I think we should agree on that today. Nobody would be excluded. I’d like consensus on that.

??: Yesterday we showed that we can reach consensus if we talk long enough. TUs had problem with ? but TUs are not going to be convinced by people shouting at them. What can we get consensus on. We need a statement of principles and we discuss on e-mail what that should be, and affiliations on a reasonable scale.

Katya: we cannot take on a principle that money is prerequisite to participation. Sliding scale should start at zero. I think if we can agree on this.

OR:
CW: can we ask redmond to explain his proposal again.
Redmond: we cannot function without money. I don’t want any group excluded from EE, turkey, or Nottingham community groups. But the only way to support them is to raise money. Range from 50 to 500 pounds, and that orgs that can’t pay that are paid from that fund. If we don’t have a real financial contribution . . .

CW: we have to finish at half one. This is the last speaker in the process debate.

African network?: I think the real test of building the real social forum on Porto Alegre principles is whether our deeds match our words. That is important in UK. The fact that people don’t actually do what they preach. In order to win people to the movement here, we need to do what we say. Talk of enlarging, means we have to do something. Here at these meetings I hear a lot about the black people being voiceless, but no one in the black community is voiceless. It is a refusal to listen. (claps). I want to deal with what marginalisation actually means. There is a process of impoverishment, that excludes us. I agree with sliding scale. Contributions cannot only be in cash but also in kind! (large reaction, claps, even some whoops). Those who indulge in speaking for debating’s sake. If we can prove that this movement is really about building a movement. NO one is more interested in another world than African people. (claps.)

OR: is anyone opposed to a principle of a sliding scale?

Sara [wombles]: I think that it is much more or just as much of a commitment to give your time and energy instead of cash. If we have a sliding scale that starts at zero and participation.

-Can we have that as a proposal?

CW: everybody be quiet, apart from me. We have had a proposal. These is a principle of orgs and people paying to fund the process, the debate is about the lowest level and also that people can actually pay in other ways. Is there a consensus around that? (she then mentions the next UKA)

-Is that UKA assembly? Can that proposal go out to all grassroots orgs in uk about UKA?

CW: so is there consensus on that? (there were no outcries from audience, but there were a few hands.) Ok. Let’s move on.


Social movement meeting:
Pierre Khalfa [attac france]: we had an important discussion about the decisions we took at the assembly of the SM during paris. La premier qui propose un problem c’est le fait que nous avons decidé de participer au niveau européen sur un jour contre geurre 20 mars. Pour refaire un force dans la rue. Nous avons discuté comment prennons action contre l’europe ? et pour un europe social and des droites. We decided two things. 1. on the european question of having a demo on the 9 may, le jour de signature du constitution de Europe. Il aillait d’esayer d’agir sur cette terrain avec le mouvement syndical européen. Il faut que nous discutons maintenent. Au niveau d’etat il y a du chaos. Le fait que ETUC a decidé de poser le date d’agir 3 avril. C’est une qestion decisive. De destruction de service publique, de tous la vie en Europe. Les qeustions européens. Il faut que nous costruire un force plus importante avec des forces, avec tous qui ne sont pas d’accord entre nous. Malgré la divergence, on doit construire un force en Europe convergent sur le propre base pour l’europe de droites et contre l’europe neoliberal. D’agir uniquement avec le ETUC. Nous avons discuté dans un petit groupe européen hier de construire un text. It will be handed out. Le text c’est: ‘Agir pour une Europe sans guerre. We are engaged in creating a process of mobilisation for a europe of rights for the 9 may. All the actions org by SM a common day . . .’ Mais, la ETUC, they have now suggested the date of 3 april. We suggest to discuss this text now.

-sorry chair it should be a women speaker next.

CW: we asked the line if they wanted to change places. They were happy to stay where they were. (yesterday the line of speakers was kept M/F/M/F)

Hugo Braun [attac germany]: I think the decision of the ETUC it partially a result of the ESF in paris. We should welcome that decision and we should call the social movements to support this day of action. So there should be support for the document just read.

Leo Gabriel [Austrian SF]: I think it is very important to stick to the decisions we took in paris. That’s why we need to issue this declaration. To put a paragraph inside about the call for 20 march, so that this is really an execution of a will we have in paris. 20 march and 3rd april are very close and we don’t want either to get lost. And not to lose out of sight our compromise to mobilize the 9th of may. Also in the formulation of future texts about the content in front of the european constitution.
(mariangela was at table talking to chairs during part of speech)

Petros Constantino: I don’t know how many people know that saddam hussien was captured this morning by American forces. But really this war was not about saddam Hussein this was a war about strategic control. So, we will not expect that the Iraqi resistance will stop. There is a real resistance, that was not just saddam. We do not give any legitimacy to this govt. today in ciaro there is a very good meeting with more than 600 delegates against the war. The second call is that all the anti-war movement are preparing anti-war assembly in Mumbai at WSF. We are also organising a caravan to Iraq on the 20 march.

??: Depuis notre assemble. La premier: nous sommes dans un nouveau situation en Europe avec la crise. Il me semble donc que c’est importante de parler sur ces deux questions. de pousser un double exigence. 1. ?? 2. toutes autres contestant dans Europe. Viens de tombe par cette crise en Europe. Les syndicat plutot en critique sur la constition. On peut avoir un manif tres grand pour faire un movement large ensemble pour changer les force en Europe. Pour discuter ensemble. (think I lost a lot here too, sorry!)

Luciano Muhlbauer [cobas, rifundazioni Comunista]: 1 the mobilisation to add the 20 march to the proposal, second also is the question of europe. We don’t know what will happen. We have the date of 9 march, the only thing we cannot do is saying anything [nothing?] on the process they are doing. I think we need the voice of the movement, our voice. I think it is also important to know that they took only a part of the movement. They say, ‘We have to change something’, but these small changes are not to be accepted. There is an obligation to build commerges [convergences?]. always when we mobilise against this european model we are able to mobilise. So when we say we have to build a common day of action It means that two different things are opposed. I support the proposal of Pierre, because we cannot say as Italians to say we cannot support it. We have to say that we had a proposal in paris, now ETUC makes us a proposal, so we have two proposals. I agree with text because it is balanced and doesn’t say things we cannot say. But I would add one or two more words. We have to say something about what happened yesterday in the EU summit meetings. They are not able to find a solution. We have to use this.

??: dans le cadre de FSE, we were agreed on the appel de Mouvement Sociaux. Le continue avec le droite sociaux qui est absent et aussi la guerre. Nous somme mis d’accord sur un agenda. Il nous faut construire un debate vertaible, un report de force. We build it alone or we build it together with you. We have a proposal and we are d’accord with the text. Comment on met en oeuvre our proposition alternative and the only way is to create a force. So we are agreed with the text.

PL: we have to leave the room at 2:

Il ne suffit pas de metre le mot contre la geurre, dans la texte j’ai plus trouvé la mot contre la geurre. Il y a qqch a remettre en equilibre. Un des acimageur(?) cest le mouvement contre la guerre parce que la geurre cest une moyen de expand the neoliberalism in the world. Je ne suis pas syndicaliste, mais je sias que le SES(an abbreviation in French for ETUC?) prendre des decision s’il veut. Si on a la decision de 20 mars, on peut pas faire ca et un mobilisation pour 3 avril. Ca veut dire que les syndicat ne veut pas mobilisé pour le 20 mars. Encore plus de guerre, il faut trouver un moyen de garder le date de 20 mars. I don’t have the solution. I think the syndicat won’t say ‘no, you’re crazy’. It is also the responsibility of the TU to change their date. La geurre est devenu vraiment un moyen expansion neoliberal.

Kenny Bell (UNISON NE); we need to add a mention of the 20march to the document. The war the occupation is all about money that could be spent on our public services. It’s a real opportunity to begin to link the SM with the TU movement. In the NE England have already taken an initiative to hold a demo without discussion with the general secretary of ETUC. In many ways this is a challenge for the SMs, if want the relationship between the SM and TUs to develop, we have to make a compromise. It seems there will be a delay in the signing of the constitution. MPs are saying that ‘We think we’ll have to go back to the drawing board on the constitution.’ I’m not aware and certainly unison is not outside etuc. We cannot ignore the fact that the etuc call has come from pressure form SMs. I would urge people to agree on the motion, the statement, that has been presented.

Christine Bucholtz: I think the text is absolutely fine. I think we have to stick to what we discussed in paris. The movements are the source of the esf and it is the job of the esf to strengthen the movement. We managed in germany to create a process over the past three months, the TU movement was not very left, but it is so important the this coming together with the SM is taking place now. We had three thousand people come together in germany with the head of Verdi, the largest TU in the world, speaking. We will have an activist conference and how the expansion will really take place.

Alex Callinicos, project k [also SWP]: the point of the mob on the 9th of may was that they were coming there to sign the constitution, but it is not clear now that they will be able to do this. Partly because of war. Wider context. I think that the call for the 2/3 april is extremely important of course they are conservative parties, the fact that cracks are now opening up between these orgs means that the ETUC has to be supported.

Italian: on ferra pas une text commune. Les angelterre force trop la processus. Il ya des autre chose ensemble. On a mit ca après la question de la geurre. Alex, Il a raison. S’il n y a plus un constitution, il n y a plus un manifestation 9 may. Ils sont des orgs qui ont fait un pacte. On doit discuter meme la date. Si on peut mettre d’accord sur la date. La guerre: On est tout d’accord sur ca et maintenant il n y a plus ca dans la texte. en itlaly la chose le plus important cest la question de la guerre. Pourquoi les deux. On peut faire les deux. L’un ou l’autre.

Sara: global womens strike: quick proposals: 1. ensure that there is a womens day in the ESF like in paris, and that is be framed by grassroots women. Women have gone into many positions in gov and universities and TUs. The grassroots must have a platform at every conference. We all must be visible. In the anti-war movement, the grassroots women have been the backbone of the movement. Not only the voices of grassroots women but also women at the low level of TUs etc. on the 8 march, it is the global women strike action. So on that week women’s focus will be on that. We are inviting all to join. My last point is that I think if we are discussing this, it doesn’t mention women. It’s needs more discussion. The grassroots are not at this meeting there needs to be some plan how to reach out to these groups. There’s the 31st of jan, european wide action against detention and for asylum rights. That was a decision of the paris forum and it hasn’t been mentioned here. That has to be raised. There is the 8 of march. Please don’t org a clash. Can we have, maybe we can meet outside this room, but many issues are left of this set of demands.

PL: do we agree on the 24th of jan.
Yes.

Barcelona: I think what we’re talking about here is to set a timeline that we should be feasible. The timeline we approved in paris was very dense. Timeline for mobilisation for TU is very complicated, in text should be included that we have to mobilise against the war on 20 march.. problem is not text, but how to draw together the different forces. I also think we should realise that the situation in each country is very different there are some irrational ideas in the timeline. It is more logical to think of the forum, that we should put some new dates, but not destabilise timeline from paris. How can we build mobilisation wihout destabilising timeline, esp 20 march.

??: la situation créer en Europe. Cest evident that for us who are against the constitution we open a space to continue our struggle against a European constitution. I would like to say that clearly the situation has changed, and we cannot separate the discussion on the constitution from social rights. The failure of the discussions so far, in the longterm it is very important the relation with the CES(?), because they are mostly for the constitution, and we should not subordinate ourselves to the CES.

Cest pas parce que la CES faire un manif. Maintenant on est pas d’accord sur ca. on peut pas passé simplement par la. Vraiment attention a ca: pourquoi manifest???

??: I wanted to call for the FSE to support the asylum seekers. The call from paris came form the sans papiers. Partly on the ground that undocumented workers need solidarity from all workers in support of full rights for all workers. if people are interested, I hope they come and make it a good action.
(CW talking to Chris Nineham at side of room, comes back to report to PL that ‘we need to . . .’ )

PL: we need to wrap it up because we have to be out of the room by 1:30. We cannot stay until 2.

Sophie Zafari [FSU, LCR?-not sure]: il n y a question de reprendre le discussion qu’ils font. The text is a good compromise, (she reads the text again a little) le problem de la succession de dates, on a pas un solution de cette problem. La premier d’ajout qqchs. On ajoutera ‘montre des limite du construction d’un Europe.’ And ‘We are enganged in calling for 20 march as a day of action against the war et…’

PL: two amendments added: to add 20 march. And there were also other dates. If we use that as a basis and then local groups can adjust it on the web. Thank translators.

CW: anyone who wants to be involved in the org committee UK see oscar or myself. Now, dates for the next EA.

??: I work with Kurdish groups who are illegal right now, importance of the 31 january. Thousands of asylum seekers who have been treated like terrorists. In camps in guantanomo bay to fight with them is to fight with us also.

Luciano Muhlbauer: we need to decide next european meeting. We have deadline decided together for march. I think we have to choose the 6 or 7 march. We have to work on the 20 march also. (disagreement in room. Alex C: ‘too early’, others: ‘51% of the world are women.’)

CW: the date put forward was the 6/7th march, and we can use it to plan for women’s day too.

Meeting finished.