Justice For Jean Charles Menezes

IMCista | 29.07.2005 12:20 | Terror War | London

At around 10am (Friday 22/7), police shot dead an unarmed man on a train in south London. They had trailed him from a block of flats which they had under surveillance, allowing him to board a bus and then enter Stockwell underground Station, despite apparently believing that he was a suicide bomber.
first reports | more on shooting | train driver threatened

News of the 'shoot to kill' policy raised urgent concerns from Muslims and non-Muslims alike, especially since the man (now named as Jean Charles de Menezes) turned out to be completely unconnected with the bombers. After police admitted the man was innocent on Saturday a hastily organised vigil was held at Stockwell Station on Sunday 24 morning. [reports and photos - 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | audio | video ] A second much larger vigil took place on Monday 25 evening. [Pics and report | Spontaneous march | Photos of vigil and demo] On the following Wednesday 27 another protest took place outside the Metropolitan police headquarters at Scotland Yard. [Photos and Reports 1 | 2] [Audio interviews]

The Jean Charles de Menezes Family Campaign has called for another vigil and a memorial service on Friday 29 at 5.30pm, Parliament Sq. [Flyer (pdf)]

Remembering Jean Charles

IMCista

Comments

Hide the following 24 comments

I give a toss Max!

30.07.2005 01:28

What an outrageous, uncaring and sickening comment. Whether Jean Charles was illegal or not, and he wasn't, is irrelevant. Max, ask yourself why his flat was under surveillance all night but nothing done about it if he was suspected of having explosives there. We all know how the coppers love to put on a public show of raiding such places. Ask yourself why he was followed for about twenty minutes without being apprehended if he was suspected of having explosives on him. Ask yourself why he was chased onto a train, precisely where he could have caused untold harm and damage, if he was suspected of having explosives on him. This was nothing more than a deliberate South American death squad-style public execution.

dave hewitt

I give a toss Max!

30.07.2005 23:53

I give a toss Max!This lad was someone's son, that is somthing people need to rembember, when did it become illegal in this country to wear a padded coat in summer and look forgein. When do innocent people derserve to be executed in this country!! I thought we had defeated Hitler when did we become a Facist regime. Why were the real criminals not treated with the same disdain for life. We are acting no better than the criminals responable for these atrocities. My heart goes out to this lads family, may god bless them.

Elaine
mail e-mail: elaineteresagrant@yahoo.co.uk

Jean Charles RIP

16.08.2005 21:53

Jean Charles RIP,
I never met him but his murder, cos' that is what is was, must now be focal point to turn the tide and stop these evil arrogant bullies, who think they can pull on a uniform and get a 'right' to kill , mutilate and destroy lives. The good ole Britis copper is gone, replaced thugs & scum

steve
mail e-mail: sbenn_43@yahoo.com

Bring the murderer to justice

17.08.2005 13:23

The information which is now available indicates that the police officer who shot Jean acted in haste and without regard for the fact that the man had already been arrested by a plain clothes officer, which indicates that he is guilty of murder and should be tried for that offence!

Don Tomo

ASHAMED OF BRITAIN

17.08.2005 13:25

I am ashamed to be British that an ordinary, decent man could have been shot like this. The response by the police was way over the top. There must be no cover up or whitewash. The true facts must be uncovered and published. Those responsible must be prosecuted. Ian Blair should resign now. Good luck with the campaign.

P Thomas

Police Were Right To Shoot

17.08.2005 15:28

I think that the police were right to shoot Jean Charles de Menezes, whether he was here illegally or not if a police officer of any country tells you to stop, you stop no questions asked. Given previous events in London, for him to run is just plain crazy. While the hell would someone where a thick jacket like he was wearing on a boiling hot day unless they had something to hide.

The justice for jean campaign is a waste of time, and the police shoot to kill ot protect policy should remain to stop terrorists and mindless and stupid idiots like this Jean Charles de Menezes or what ever the stupid idiots name is.

British Guy

In perspective

17.08.2005 16:26

Ashamed of Britain?

30-number of hours it took for Brazilian govt. to declare itself 'shocked' by killing at Stockwell
30-number of innocent Brazilians shot dead in one night by police in Rio de Janeiro

Still ashamed?

Frank Walker

I Believe Murder is in Place

17.08.2005 23:59

One mistake should not justify another. Regardless of the fact there were 30 ppl killed in Rio by police officers, it does not justify the killing of an innocent man in England (especially because the socio-political reality of these two countries are completely different). Harsh times might require harsh methods; however, we should also remember we are supposedly rational beings and should make use of it. Otherwise, we are no better than the people we are criticizing. A terrible mistake, the loss of an innocent life that should be taken as a reevaluation of the tactics used at this moment and maybe as a cue that whatever is that we are doing is not working.

Ana
mail e-mail: coresquinha@hotmail.com

I give a toss too

18.08.2005 05:58

We are told that this is a war against terror. The first casualty of war is truth. Governments dispense misinformation and it is no surprise to find that everything we were told about this appalling unspeakable incident was rubbish. Thank God for the internet and the chance to preserve some freedom of speech. Yes, I'm ashamed to be British.

Pam Traynor
mail e-mail: pamela_traynor@hotmail.com

I dont give a toss

18.08.2005 15:41

isnt it brilliant when the police show there human after all.
ive read as much as i can about the shooting and i have to say i think they made a mistake but have to admire them for thinking right he might be a bomber so lets blow his head off in case.
he shouldnt have been here anyway and im happy to say i think he should have been shot for that alone and oh and his so called close family that he couldnt be bothered with that he had to sneak over here and get away from them are just seeing pound signs now and im very interested in the fact that there solicitor is fighting for money and turned down three offers so far and thats a fact from a student im putting up in my house at this very moment that lives in the same village as the parents.
if somebody hurts my family i go after them and the police are human and sometimes lose there tempers and im so glad there kicking ass

james rees
mail e-mail: omen_55@msn.com

Double-speak immigration policy

19.08.2005 00:28

Discussion of the reported immigration status of the tragically killed young man from Brazil is a reminder of the double-speak immigration policy of the UK.

Successive governments have recognized that Britain needs migrants to come to work in Britain.That is the practical and real policy. But partly because of politicians' anxious looking over their shoulder at populist tabloid viewpoints and partly because of their need to appear to be conforming to EU rules, successive governments have not felt free to say so.

The big US corporations want cheap labour: hence the recent mass sackings at Gate Gourmet, Heathrow; hence the mere lip service paid by US Republicans to checking the entry of illegal Mexican migrants.

If the 'laws' of Milton Friedman say labour should be cheaper, and employers act according to those norms, and governments tacitly back up the employers, then that is the real policy of the UK, however much the words 'illegal immgrant' are wheeled out near election time to keep the Sun's readers primed.

It is no use for the Home Office now, knowing perfectly well what their own real, tacit 'policy'is, to turn round and talk when it suited them about the young Brazilian man's immigration status, while having acquiesced in the migration of thousands of young men like him, again when it suited them.

Canada has a more honest migration policy: about half a million visas are issued to migrants and the Canadian government openly admits that the country needs new migrants.

Mark Fenn

I still give a toss

19.08.2005 07:19

I wonder who else James would like to see shot? People who fiddle their tax returns perhaps. Those who don't pay parking fines? What about legitimate asylum seekers fleeing torture? I'm sure he'd want them dispatched. And what about the elderly and the sick and the prison population? And then there's people who don't return their library books. If one student whose visa has elapsed deserves to die, why stop there? Perhaps he'd find the ruling ethos of somewhere like Burma more to his taste.

Pam Traynor
mail e-mail: pamela_traynor@hotmail.com

Immigration into the UK

19.08.2005 13:27

Mark Fenn writes
'Discussion of the reported immigration status of the tragically killed young man from Brazil is a reminder of the double-speak immigration policy of the UK'

Discussion of all immigration matters show a degree of confusion greater than any other topic.

It has always struck me as an irony that traditionally the right are oppossed to immigration, whilst the left are pro-immigration, when if either group stopped and thought about immigration and what it means in a macro-economic sense, the positions would be reversed.

Capital needs immigration - big business needs immigration - partially to ensure that business is not subject to labour shortages which may give the working man or woman an opportunity to achieve a more equitable return from their labours, and partly to ensure the continued growth of the British economy, and the continued increase in wealth for the bourgeoisie.

Radical lefties who wish to see the capitalist state dismantled, need a continuing source of cheap labour like a fish needs a bicycle.

It does not follow that a reduction in immigration alone would lead to the collapse of the capitalist state, but it is true that conflict inherent in the system would be more readily exposed if there were a labour crisis.

Frank

Disgusted

19.08.2005 18:11

Where was Rehman and Yasmin Khan when the victims were murdered by terrorist bombers in london 7/7.I feel sorry that this young man has died and i feel disgusted that his death is being used in this way by people with another agenda.
I have seen you Rehman and Khan, anrone can see you are loving it.You should be ashamed,but you won't.

ray harper

Not in my name

19.08.2005 19:13

Jean rest in peace, I pray for you and your family. To the police may god forgive you for your sins (murder, lies and fear).

patrick

Lets have some balance....

19.08.2005 20:19

Reading these comments and watching the very poor - yes, poor ITV news coverage of the tragic death of Jean which is exclusive driven rather than factually driven has led me to seriously believe that everyone involved - the police, the media and most of the comments posted here have seriously lost the plot in understanding what happened and who is responsible. Most of the comment on all sides lacks perspective, grossly over generalises and reflects all the hidden agendas of people involved. It is quite clear to me that it would do more justice for Jean if people - whether working for ITV news, commenting here, the lawyers involved and Jean's supporters were more aware of their prejudices, more aware of different perspectives and their (hidden) agenda(s) and learnt about the dangers of the generalisation of events, their consequences and impact and issues of race. For example, if Ian Blair did cover up the events in some way - and it is still an if because he may only have known what he was told - that needs to be weighed up against the excellent handling of all that has gone on in london these recent months - to put it another way do we need to witch hunt someone for one wrong-doing if they do their job most of the time very well?; being ashamed of ones nationality because of one event or even the Iraq war does not reflect the other good aspects of the UK. It is like the individual saying to themselves that they are completely stupid when clearly that is never the case. They will have other attributes which are not. Lets get some serious debate here and honour the memory of Jean.

Dr Glenn Smith

Fleeting identification

19.08.2005 23:51

Jean Charles summary execution highlights the dangers of relying on fleeting distracted identification.
Jean Charles paid with his life.
Others have paid with their freedom on the basis of such unreliable identification, one example is the hapless Barry George, convicted on the fleeting identification of one Susan Mayes.
Hopefully there will be some kind of justice for the family of Jean Charles.

Of course the real culprits are those behind 7/7, and poor Jean Charles is another victim of that inhuman act.

Mike. JfB.

Mike Bourke
mail e-mail: mikebourke2@hotmail.com
Homepage: http://www.barrygeorge.com

Balanced debate

21.08.2005 06:39

I should like to address the comments made by Dr Glen Smith. I take the point that it is a rather foolish generalisation to say that I am ashamed to be British, and that it would be simplistic to make such a remark based on a single event. I said it in anger and as a counterbalance to all those people who claim to be proud to be British without reflecting on our very dubious history of charging round the world killing people who had stuff we wanted and nicking it off them. As to the people who post on this site having agendas that are both hidden and obvious (slightly baffled by that one), we are not professional journalists and have no obligation to be objective and dispassionate. Quite the reverse. We are private individuals who have been sufficiently moved by a particular issue to want to express our strongly held subjective views in public. Of course society needs objective reporting and we must do everything we can to ensure that this is preserved. But without debate between individuals with passionate agendas we would never have evolved our justice system and democracy of which we can, at times, be proud.

Pam Traynor
mail e-mail: pamela_traynor@hotmail.com

Please leave the grieving family alone

22.08.2005 17:47

I would make a plea for political activists to leave the family alone to grieve in peace. Please air your anti-establishment grievances (to which you are, of course, entitled) elsewhere, rather than hijackng a very tragic situation for self-serving political ends.

Regards,

Rich.

Rich

WHAT IF HE WAS YOUR SON?

22.08.2005 22:20

CAN I FIRST SEND THE FAMILY OF JEAN MY DEEPEST SYMPATHYS BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO NEED IT NOW,WHEN I FIRST HEARD THAT A ( TERRORIST ), HAD BEEN KILLED IN CONNECTION WITH THE RECENT TRAGIC BOMBINGS IN LONDON ,I'M SORRY TO ADMIT IT BUT I WAS GLAD,MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS TO THE VICTIMS OF THE FIRST BOMBS AND IT JUST FEALT LIKE SOME SORT OF PAYBACK. BUT HOW SORRY DO I FEEL NOW, I LIKE OTHERS WERE LED TO BELIEVE THAT THIS POOR YOUNG MAN WAS A MURDERING TERRORIST WHO WAS ABOUT TO COMMIT UTTER CARNAGE. WHEN REALLY HE WAS JUST GOING ABOUT HIS EVERY DAY BUSINESS,I KNOW ITS HARD BUT THIS IS A TRUTH WE ALL NEED TO HERE BECAUSE IT IS IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST,WE NEED TO KNOW WHY THIS STORY WAS RELEASED WHEN CLEARLY IT IS AN ABSOLUTE FABRICATION OF THE TRUTH..I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY LIED TO SUCH AN EXTENT,WITH THE CURRENT SECURITY SITUATION IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN EASIER TO UNDERSTAND .IF THE POLICE HAD ADMITTED THEY HAD MADE A TRAGIC MISTAKE, PERHAPS PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE UNDERSTOOD A BIT MORE ,ALTHOUGH QUESTIONS WOULD STILL NEED ANSWERING. BUT TO EXAGERATE THE TRUTH TO SUCH AN EXTENT, AND HIDE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS WHEN EXPOSED HAS UTTERLY SHOCKED ME.WE NEED TO KNOW WHY YOU LIED,...........PLEASE SUPPORT THE INQUIRY INTO JEAN'S DEATH,BECAUSE IN A WAY THIS AFFECTS US ALL..WHAT IF IT WAS YOUR SON.....R.I.P.

RICHARD GRANT
mail e-mail: rickygeorgegrant@msn.com

Russ

23.08.2005 22:16

I think there are a few things (Facts) that need stating here.

The police do not shoot people for the hell of it. At the time, there was a 'justifiable reason' for shooting this man (whether right or wrong) and therefore the officers involved are, and should always be, immune from prosecution and remain anonymous.

This man was, at the time, illegally resident in the UK.

He was in the company of people involved in terrorism upon this country.

He was, technically, innocent and detached from involvement with the London bombings.

Anti-terror procedures do infringe on civil liberties.

People of non-white 'looks' are more likely to be involved in terrorism.

I know this may offend many....I will not condone this shooting....I am not racist...I want to live in a safe country, and I am prepared to give up many personal liberties for this.

Russ

Neil Russell

Support for family

27.08.2005 04:57

In response to those people who have requested that the family be left to grieve in peace, I should just like to say that I am not in the habit of posting political comments but I feel strongly that the family's campaign for justice deserves support. It is precisely because I believe in their cause that I feel compelled to contribute in whatever small way I can to their aim of keeping this terrible event in the public eye until they feel that justice has been served on their behalf.

Pam Traynor
mail e-mail: pamela_traynor@hotmail.com

Everyone had a hand in lying!!

30.08.2005 11:34

I watched the news very closley that day and being one not to quickly believe what I hear especially when within seconds of the story of Jean Charles de Menezes shotting there where different stories. And now look and see, the same thing I thought at the time has come to light, Sky,BBC & ITV reporters all had something different to say on the shotting condeming him within seconds of his death, as well as witness statements from people who wanted in my eyes their 15mins of fame at the expense of an innocent person.

Then I hear statements made from families of the victims saying that we shouldn't blame the police they were just doing their job and that those who died were MORE important! Jean Charles de Menezes was a innocent victim just like those of the 7th and should not gain any LESS recognition because he was gunned down by police in the line of duty instead of by bombers . And no amount of excuses given can replace the life of an innocent man!!

Adele Samuels
mail e-mail: A.Samuels@wlv.ac.uk

reply to JAMES REES!!!!!!!!

28.09.2005 13:41

I find your comment highly offensive, This man had every right to be in this country, he was not here illegally!! I think you should show some more compassion you nit wit!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Amy