Aufhebengate -Fuck off Libcom
Nihilist communist | 19.01.2013 14:43 | Repression | Workers' Movements
I want to draw everyone's attention to this article by Sam FantoSamotnaf.
http://dialectical-delinquents.com/?page_id=9
"From Millbank to Quebec, via Athens, Tunis, Suez, Oakland, Barcelona and countless other places, the crowd has confronted the forces of the state with varying degrees of success and failure, of non-violent and violent tactics, over the last couple of years. Ostensibly these outbreaks of class war have been supported and encouraged by the “libertarian communist” section of the supposed movement against capitalism, including those publishing extreme anti-state and anti-commodity theory. So when, in January 2011, the TPTG, a small Greek group, discovered that John Drury, a significant “theoretician” and long-standing member of the self-styled anti-state communist group Aufheben, had been helping the cops with a divide and rule strategy for the very same crowds that this group ostensibly wanted to contribute to radicalising, they were shocked and sent out, to their English speaking friends in London and elsewhere, requests for some strategy of how to deal with this information. After several months of a combination of mainly indifference and ideological obstacles from some and out and out resistance on the part of people closest to Aufheben as well as the rest of the members of Aufheben, the TPTG and myself publicised (on Libcom Blog and elsewhere) this information on the internet in October 2011 (see The strange case of Dr.Johnny and Mr.Drury on this site). As a result we encountered a deluge of denial, contorted evasions and the most stupid defences of a clear-cut case of collaboration. The resulting scandal became known as Aufhebengate."
http://dialectical-delinquents.com/?page_id=9 "From Millbank to Quebec, via Athens, Tunis, Suez, Oakland, Barcelona and countless other places, the crowd has confronted the forces of the state with varying degrees of success and failure, of non-violent and violent tactics, over the last couple of years. Ostensibly these outbreaks of class war have been supported and encouraged by the “libertarian communist” section of the supposed movement against capitalism, including those publishing extreme anti-state and anti-commodity theory. So when, in January 2011, the TPTG, a small Greek group, discovered that John Drury, a significant “theoretician” and long-standing member of the self-styled anti-state communist group Aufheben, had been helping the cops with a divide and rule strategy for the very same crowds that this group ostensibly wanted to contribute to radicalising, they were shocked and sent out, to their English speaking friends in London and elsewhere, requests for some strategy of how to deal with this information. After several months of a combination of mainly indifference and ideological obstacles from some and out and out resistance on the part of people closest to Aufheben as well as the rest of the members of Aufheben, the TPTG and myself publicised (on Libcom Blog and elsewhere) this information on the internet in October 2011 (see The strange case of Dr.Johnny and Mr.Drury on this site). As a result we encountered a deluge of denial, contorted evasions and the most stupid defences of a clear-cut case of collaboration. The resulting scandal became known as Aufhebengate."
I am blocked from libcom, they ban all critics. I want to say it is very simple:
1. Cops cannot be trusted.
2. Clifford Stott co-operates with the cops. Therefore cannot be trusted.
3. John Drury works with Clifford Stott, therefore cannot be trusted.
4. Aufheben includes John Drury, therefore cannot be trusted.
5. libcom claim Aufheben have 'evidence' of their story, therefore cannot be trusted.
6. SolFed support with libcom, and full of journalists and academics, therefore cannot be trusted.
7. Therefore it is only the comrades in Greece, France, New Zealand etc who are clean and we can trust to expose UK 'libertarian communism' as pro-cop, pro-prison, pro-Paul Mason, middle class, academic fraud.
Every revolution is made by the working class and betrayed by 'revolutionaries' (Bolsheviks, CNT, Daniel Cohn-Bendit). Revolutionary ideology (middle class) is the enemy of revolutionary practice (working class). Therefore to be pro-revolutionary, we must expose and attack all middle class 'revolutionaries'. This is most important task during capitalist crisis, or these scum will again side with the state against proletariat insurrection (like in August riots).
Posted on anarchistnews.org by Herngaard
http://anarchistnews.org/content/cop-out-%E2%80%93-significance-aufhebengate
http://anarchistnews.org/node/15485
+ Previously on IMC UK
Sussex Police have hired top riot specialist and crowd psychologist Dr. Clifford Stott to train local coppers on new mind control tactics to undermine social movements.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/06/496890.html
1. Cops cannot be trusted.
2. Clifford Stott co-operates with the cops. Therefore cannot be trusted.
3. John Drury works with Clifford Stott, therefore cannot be trusted.
4. Aufheben includes John Drury, therefore cannot be trusted.
5. libcom claim Aufheben have 'evidence' of their story, therefore cannot be trusted.
6. SolFed support with libcom, and full of journalists and academics, therefore cannot be trusted.
7. Therefore it is only the comrades in Greece, France, New Zealand etc who are clean and we can trust to expose UK 'libertarian communism' as pro-cop, pro-prison, pro-Paul Mason, middle class, academic fraud.
Every revolution is made by the working class and betrayed by 'revolutionaries' (Bolsheviks, CNT, Daniel Cohn-Bendit). Revolutionary ideology (middle class) is the enemy of revolutionary practice (working class). Therefore to be pro-revolutionary, we must expose and attack all middle class 'revolutionaries'. This is most important task during capitalist crisis, or these scum will again side with the state against proletariat insurrection (like in August riots).
Posted on anarchistnews.org by Herngaard
http://anarchistnews.org/content/cop-out-%E2%80%93-significance-aufhebengate http://anarchistnews.org/node/15485 + Previously on IMC UK
Sussex Police have hired top riot specialist and crowd psychologist Dr. Clifford Stott to train local coppers on new mind control tactics to undermine social movements.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/06/496890.html
Nihilist communist
Comments
Hide the following 60 comments
At some point you'll realise
19.01.2013 15:11
What's all this hatred of the "middle class" anyway?
I think thats wrong. I consider myself middle class but I'm not a bad person.
There are plenty of 'working class' people who are bad/untrustworthy too.
To have a hatred just based on a label is prejudice.
And how do you tell which someone is, if they fall right in the middle of working/middle classes?
middle class
Thanks for the info
19.01.2013 15:33
r00ts
Libcom deffo state
19.01.2013 16:13
Libcom admin family business - pr company to the political elite:
John Bowden's revenge
cop-out – the significance of Aufhebengate
19.01.2013 16:46
lynx
Homepage:
http://anarchistnews.org/content/cop-out-%E2%80%93-significance-aufhebengate
"Nihilist anarchist" - posturing liar more like
19.01.2013 22:15
Bit rich for you to talk about trust after spouting all that bollocks you fucking lunatic. Hardly any SF members even post on libcom let alone have an opinion on this stuff, and as for your bullshit about "full of" you want to try a bit harder son? Our biggest group is claimants!
Maybe YOU'RE state - wouldn't be the first time some copper starting slinging this sort of shit around hoping to cause trouble.
Just anarchist
The problem of libcom IS a problem for solfed
20.01.2013 09:00
Solfed have their own forum on the site which acts as a very public talking shop for solfed members.There are three admins who admit to being solfed members - all having positions of power and responsibility within solfed, and 4 prominent bloggers who are active solfed members.
Choccy - school teacher
phil - tax inspector
rob ray - professional journalist
gonzokid - fuck knows
(and these are just the ones who admit they are in solfed).
Again it's the educated garduates who represent the "voice" of solfed.
Of course those who remember DAM remember a genuinely militant workplace initiative made up of working class people. The problem of libcom, whether solfed want to admit it or not, is a problem of solfed.
Dense Type
Couple minor clarifications
20.01.2013 15:03
There's three SF members who are libcom admins out of nine overall and none of them were in SF when they set it up, so calling it "a formal solfed initiative" is inaccurate.
And if people see it as the unofficial voice of SF they clearly don't know much about the organisation, which probably means we should encourage more colective output from Locals and the national, but we're definitely not going to start policing people's personal blogs. I don't know why you think an anarchist organisation would do that.
One thing I think should be borne in mind is that SF is a very specific organisation. We operate as a radical, federated anarchist union intiative (we're not big enough to be called a full-on union) with a consitution that people sign up to. It's not a cult, and it's not a lifestyle thing, so as long as they're not breaking the rules by claiming they're speaking on behalf of SF or whatever what people do with their lives and what their personal views might be on things like JD is none of SF's business.
Incidentally, of your list phil is not an SF member, so you've managed to identify a grand total of six people there so by your own caculations less than 5% of our (very small) membership actually write for libcom, which is hardly a representative number.
Finally, given that you don't appear to be a member (in indeed know anything at all about how SF works, it's membership makeup or how it relates to other groups), your suggestion that DAM was "more working class" is questionable, to say the least.
Rob Ray
Hmmm
20.01.2013 16:50
Tony Blair's dad's friend's postman's goldfish
Not really helping yourself there rob
20.01.2013 19:02
I would personally love to hear what those other 150 members of solfed have to say for themselves especially over working class prisoner solidarity, especially over a solfed member and his racist misogynist "black vagina" rant, especially over the close links between libcom, solfed members and a cop consultant.
I would love to hear those other voices, because as i say the perception is libcom is the unofficial voice of solfed and represents its current constituency and political outlook.
Denzil Typeface
I am confused
20.01.2013 19:27
"I would personally love to hear what those other 150 members of solfed have to say for themselves especially over working class prisoner solidarity,"
...........Do you not have a more specific question?
"Especially over a solfed member and his racist misogynist "black vagina" rant"...
............I haven't got a clue what you are talking about, could you elaborate?
"I would love to hear those other voices, because as i say the perception is libcom is the unofficial voice of solfed and represents its current constituency and political outlook"....
..............Perception of who??
M
MB
Lol aw bless
20.01.2013 19:56
I'm sure your brand of throwing totally random mud until something sticks works wonders with whatever (apparently VERY bitter) quarters you hang around in, have fun with that ;).
In the interests of science though I'm going to ask a question. Are you genuinely angry at a few people on the internet who, if you actually had a plan worth listening to, could be bypassed with little to no difficulty? I mean if you really feel libcom is a waste of time, full of wastes of space, why are you spending time on "debunking" it? Why not just form your own, better group?
I'm going to take a stab in the dark here. Is the real cause of your indignation your own failures? Failure to build the movement you want, failure to persuade anyone of the importance of your ideas, failure to make any real impact. Is that not the actual cause of your righteous fury?
If I'm right, may I make a suggestion? Stop whining about other people and get on with actually building a working class anarchist movement. I'm not going to stop you, and if history teaches us anything, it's that left-wing parasites will always exist, so if I am one it's no good just blathering about how I shouldn't be here. Go out and build the alternative.
If it turns out you can't, then the problem is not me, it's not libcom and it's not SolFed. It's you.
Rob Ray
What he's talking about
20.01.2013 20:10
Rob Ray
@MB
20.01.2013 22:00
Joseph K - libcom admin and member of solfed started a thread called fucking PC gone mad (a rant thread) with the opening words:
"Right, so a job i've been after for several years opened its recruitment window this week (a fortnight every year at best), and the blurb contains this gem: My prospective employers wrote:
We would particularly welcome applications from communities that are currently under-represented, such as people from a minority ethnic background and women.
I am neither of the above, and this has precisely zero impact on my ability to do the job. You can see how the BNP spin this as anti-white male prejudice. Cos it is, regardless of the intentions. Fucksake.
This thread particularly welcomes contributions from platformist fuckwits and male feminists defending this PC shite".
The post was defended by other site admins (and solfed members as well as the ubiquitous rob ray) for eight pages.
The thread was eventually erased from the libcom archives so you can't read it, but another thread was started questioning the revisionist process. It throws up some interesting comments about the original black vagina thread:
2. Libcom admin and solfed member along with other admins and solfed members made disgusting comments about prison resister John Bowden in a long drawn out thread. Given solfed's commitment to prisoner solidarity it seemed odd indeed especially not one solfed contributor on libcom pulled them up about it. Of course if you are a young anarchist reading libcom you would get the impression solfed members spend their time taking the piss out of prisoners (especially politicised working class prisoners).
a question for you MB as a solfed member: do you think it is acceptable for solfed members to actively defend and in some cases support people whose job it is to provide the police with information and strategies about crowd control of political demonstrations? Is it acceptable for those solfed to lie about their relationship to john drury and to dismiss criticisms of his role in aiding the police 'manage' demonstrations more effectively?
Denzil Typeface
Ooh what a whopper
20.01.2013 23:20
That's a straight up lie. I certainly didn't defend it, neither did the other libcom admins (and again, "SolFed" had no opinion on the matter at all). Tbh it's kind of frustrating it was deleted, because of course now you can make up whatever you like and there's no way to check. Mind you, the link you posted consists almost entirely of people saying "yeah that thread was full of bullshit," so kudos for proving yourself wrong, I guess.
Ah yes, John Bowden. The thread you're looking for is here, complete with the reason he was actually banged up in the first place:
Now sure, you can have a debate over support for the guy, but don't make out like it's a simple case. He wasn't put in for political reasons originally and he wasn't put back in in 2008 for political reasons either:
Afaik Bowden's also been a good prison militant and has had a lot of grief for that, so I can see why people look on him as a political prisoner, but it's also a damn sight more complicated that you're making out and I'm not surprised people have a visceral reaction either - it says nothing about the site's attitude towards prisoners in general.
Rob Ray
What public school did rob ray go to?
20.01.2013 23:41
The john bowden thread, if it is inded the same one one, has been heavily edited with all jack upton's (libcom admin and solfed member) contributions missing. Again revisionism at its best - something libcom is well versed in.
So the question remains: it is clear libcom/solfed members have told obvious lies and attempted to cover up their their relationship to john drury, and tried to further disguise the fact by attempting to discredit both TPTG and others, what are the options left open for the other 146 members of solfed?
Hate to think they get accused of being friends with cop consultants.
Denzil Typeface
Need to look into things more
21.01.2013 00:01
Re John Bowden.... I have kept up to date with, and I am generally supportive of his case, and have recently read the pamphlet he wrote with Leeds ABC, 'Tear down the walls'... but... rightly or wrongly, the reasons for his initial incarceration do not always sit comfortably with me.
Re the question you ask me as a SolFed member... Well, my answer to that would be probably no... However, I must have existed in a bubble for the last couple of years as I not too familiar with what you have said or the info in the initial article. Therefore before forming an opinion I need to read into things a lot more than I have before giving that opinion.
MB
Links
21.01.2013 00:04
MB
Alas, Eton calls (no not really you fantasist)
21.01.2013 00:26
Rob Ray
More revelations
21.01.2013 08:13
They also went to private school, work for the Labour Party, and wouldn't know the working class if they punched them in the face outside a Wetherspoons. Which they did. Free John Bowden! Smash libcom!
madlib
Don't forget the Anarchist Federation
21.01.2013 08:21
AFed
Proposal
21.01.2013 08:35
Herdgaard
COINTELPRO
21.01.2013 08:52
It doesn't even make sense. You're quoting the fucking Telegraph pinning the M26 riot on some guy, and using this as proof that he's in league with the cops to undermine riots using "mind control". What the fuck? Such a load of shit, stinks of state assets shit-stirring at a time when anarchists have finally been getting their act together and connecting with the wider working class (workfare actions, IWW cleaners etc).
I've got one for you: six degrees of separation, six degrees of Kevin Bacon, bacon comes from pigs, therefore Nihilist Communist cannot be trusted. We all know cops and fash trolls post on this board. Time to read up on COINTELPRO and not trust any fucker making wild accusations.
Cop-buster
Homepage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
"political prisoner"
21.01.2013 12:50
Yes, "[h]e wasn't put in for political reasons originally" but to claim that "he wasn't put back in 2008 for political reasons either" is a rather superficial rending of the circumstances surrounding the stitch-up carried out at the time of his last parole (2007), and his subsequent absconding from open prison following a conveniently 'failed' drug test.
And all these political machinations continue to dog John's latest parole application cf. the unprecedented secret security report which John will not be able to challenge at his next parole hearing because they can find no other 'legal' reason to keep him banged up.
jb
Homepage:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/01/505362.html
Actually...
21.01.2013 13:00
You're a bunch of self-important cultish leftists, and now there is evidence of your bullshit for all to see.
Libcom - Fuck off!
NC
What is it with the anarchist scene sometimes?
21.01.2013 14:47
I also think there has been much dodgy goings-on around his circle of friends and comrades recently, and also over the many years when mutterings of this stuff was coming out.
The thing is I think that the people shouting the loudest about this come across as completely mental TBH, and muddy the waters with internet accusations, rabid political point scoring, old grudges, and completely juvenile attutides that do nothing but provoke people who are undecided or uninformed into defensive postions or a kind of 'fuck you all' position.
Calling Libcom Libcops might sounds very insurrectionary and uber-militant, but it's not true is it? They're not cops in any way imaginable. All it seems to do is reinforce the belief you have in yourselves that YOU'RE the only TRUE militants and everybody is some kind of leftist sell-out in league with the middle class/cops/leftists. Againb, something that is not true.
You paint everything as simple in or out of our scene actions, or some kind of worst case conspiracy, rather than a fuck up or bad misjudgement on the behalf of flawed, muddling through politicals.
I'm not disputing that JD and others have behaved really badly and need to be either called to account, asked to either publically explain, apologise, or fuck off from the scene/movement, but to then extrapolate that to casting the whole anarchist scene as some sort of refuge for cop apologists and careerists for the Labour Party or whatever other complete shit you seem to be coming out with weakens the case for dealing with this and similar things.
It's no wonder that most people have nothing to do with the anarchist/anti-state communist milieu here, we come across as a bunch of fucked up, bitter, juvenile idiots, and the way this issue has been dealt with BY ALMOST EVERYBODY just proves the case.
I really despair if we ever actually have to deal with things that are more important and difficult without the State...
Please, can you just all fucking grow up and be a bit more sensible and less ideological and mad?
Despairing Anarchist
Mediations
21.01.2013 14:49
Politically important in a rush to destroy our critical praxis Prevention hint that we have. Politically important tool to divert our attention away from the development of our lives, as anarchists and political purposes
sXe
Grow Up!
21.01.2013 16:42
Time to take a long hard look in the mirror. Do you realise how childish, pathetic and quite frankly a touch deranged you sound?
The original issue, which I believe does deserve some attention, has been obscured by all the petty bitchiness and snide comments.
Jason
ridiculous lies
21.01.2013 23:23
Ha ha. Well, you start off with a lie, then carry on with loads more:
"I am blocked from libcom, they ban all critics."
If libcom banned all critics, then why is the person who wrote the article you linked to (Samotnaf) currently begging libcom to ban him? (Which they haven't done)
worker
indeed
22.01.2013 09:21
anarchists
@Jason
22.01.2013 09:25
Reaper
How does that work?
22.01.2013 16:40
So the main barrier to 'real working class anarchism' rising is a handful of administrators on a website??
How does that work?
MB
@MB
22.01.2013 21:10
Denzil Typeface
Lies about libcom
22.01.2013 23:14
Some people need to get lives I think…
ACAB
With friends like these
22.01.2013 23:26
Suspicious Minds
Aufhebengate
23.01.2013 00:18
Prole With Too Much Time To Waste Seemingly
@ACAB - truth about libcom
23.01.2013 00:20
[the black vagina thread].. "was a from a site admin, and was defended for 8 pages, and got much worse as it was defended..."
- "but when it's a site admin defending the position for 8 pages, backed up by another admin in places, it reflects so much worse on the site".
- "I'm not actually aware of him [Joespeh k] taking on board ANY of the criticism or making an apology"
- "the sustained defence of them by two admins for 8 pages that got much worse and most worryingly have been buried".
And so it goes on. We know libcom is famous for it revisionism but really the evidence it still available (for now) for everyone to examine:
Denzil Typeface
Samotnaf's a sex offender?
23.01.2013 08:45
So Samotnaf's a sex offender?
The Mob
O RLY?
23.01.2013 09:05
ACAB
rob ray - a star is born
23.01.2013 10:10
Is it fair to accuse him of being the kim philby of his generation? Who knows, only time will tell. Does this make libcom a honeytrap? Who knows, gain only time will tell.
ISP58912
Homepage:
www.toffsareu.co.uk
bash libcom, bash the rich
23.01.2013 10:18
Exposer
Hey exposer
23.01.2013 10:26
Sex Offenders Register
wow.....
23.01.2013 11:46
I read Libcom, and occaisionly post on there. I'm not really too sure about all this "Aufhebengate" stuff, but it definitly does seem to evoke strong emotions.
Although I am not totally anti-academic, I do have an issues with the prevalence of academic types in social justice movements and activism. To be honest I am a little fed up with people making their academic name from what for many of us, is actual real-life struggle. It must be nice to be able to view it with a certain intellectual detachment while the rest of us are fighting for our lives/ livilihoods/ future. However the flip side for me is the fact, that we do need these people to help us ensure that we learn from past mistakes, and that our struggles are documented for future generations and of course academics have their own struggles too, particularly with the current situation in higher education.
There is of course class issues here. Academics are more likely to come from a privileged background and the prevalence of academics in our movements, also reflects the prevalence of middle-class people in our movement. On a day-to-day practical level, this can result in working-class people feeling intimidated and alienated, by and in certain spaces, groups, campaigns etc. This needs addressing.
In terms of aufheben and the academic using his experiences to help police come up with better ways of crowd control in protest situations, instinctivally I think that we cannot tolerate or trust these people.
In terms of Solfed and its class composition, there are of course academics and people of a middle-class background (and they would freely admit it) but the majority of people in Solfed are working class people, all committed to working towards and for an anarchosyndicalist future for us all. Some are students, some are teachers, some are unemployed, some work in bars, some work in the public sector, the nhs, etc etc and the majority of them do not post on Libcom, nor really care what the hell goes on there. I don't think its fair to link the position of certain Libcom posters or admin members, or the position of some solfed members, to the whole group. Just because some libcom posters or solfed members support the aufheben position or are middle class or academics, doesn't mean we all do/are and that inference actually does a lot more damage to the movement than this Drury guy ever could.
In terms of sexual assualt and harrassment in the "movement", again its a very big issue, that needs to be addressed now, and all the macho posturing and threatening behaviour and taking delight in women suffering painful health conditions, doesnt help either. Sort yourselves out before all the women leave.
working class solfed member
Tragedy
23.01.2013 12:00
It's just tragic. The person who stands up, makes a well-reasoned argument denouncing someone, then looks around the room expecting ... what? A lynching? We really need to develop the capacity to repress those who collaborate with repression. Anarchists in Spain had armed patrols. In Greece they have motorbike patrols. We have no qualms using force against our external enemies (e.g. fighting the cops). Maybe we need some kind of armed force to repress internal enemies, like an anti-fa for middle-class cop collaborators.
Step Up
libcom
23.01.2013 14:30
batswill
who is Sam Fanto?
23.01.2013 15:05
curious
Step off.
23.01.2013 17:17
Except that in Spain, when they *had* (note the past tense) armed patrols, they were in a civil war. Similarly, in Greece, they're in a state of more-or-less open conflict with Golden Dawn, and that's what makes the motorbike patrols appropriate. In case you haven't noticed, that's not the situation here. In terms of the militancy of the anarchist movement, it's pretty much a big deal if someone breaks a window on a demo. In this context, to ignore the reality of the situation you're in and daydream about Greece and Spain '36 is completely useless. The idea of British anarchists forming some kind of militia to deal with anyone who they've heard a dodgy rumour about is a long way off, thankfully.
A
To working-class Solfed member
23.01.2013 18:59
Drury's work is to do with crowd safety in mass emergencies like Hillsborough, trying to make sure things like that don't happen. It's nothing to do with protests - that is work done by Clifford Stott, whose work Drury rejects (although he acknowledged allowing his name to be put on an article Clifford Stott wrote as a "favour", and he acknowledges this was a big mistake).
Seriously folks
to seriously folks
23.01.2013 21:14
Just quickly in response to what you've written:
It was not one article. There are more than half a dozen collaborations listed on Johnny's sussex uni webpage alone.
He does not just study crowd safety in mass emergencies. Again on his sussex uni page, there are articles about crowds in the poll tax riot, anti-capitalist movement, anti-road campaigns, G8 direct actions.
This is just the few bits of work he's advertising - it is the tip of the iceberg.
anon
@ Seriously folks
23.01.2013 21:59
I don't think I'm parroting anything, but I do think youre being a little rude and patronising.
But hey, thats anarchists for you, I don't know why I bother.
working class solfed member
Is the crime now writing about protests?
23.01.2013 21:59
The charge is that he's a "crowd controlling cop collaborator". The only contact he's had with the cops, according to Aufheben, has to do with mass emergencies work, which is apparently a critique of the public order/crowd control approach that caused the Hillsborough disaster. As far as I can tell, he more or less advocates the Occupy Sandy approach - self-organised mutual aid - as opposed to the standard repressive state approach seen after Katrina. Is Occupy Sandy a sinister new strategy of state repression?
That does mean he has some contact with cops (as well as the other 'blue light services' - fire & rescue, paramedics etc, and also events managment types, like festival organisers). I can see why that makes people uncomfortable, cos our only contact with cops is on the wrong end of a baton. But this contact has nothing to do with helping the cops suppress struggles, it has nothing to do with struggles at all, and in fact critiques the default police approach of 'crowd control'.
It seems a bit dishonest, to say the least, to take work which is a critique of the very concept of crowd control, and to then claim he's helping the cops do crowd control.
right
@ working class solfed member
24.01.2013 14:28
Samotnaf and friends have built this whole house of cards on the 'fact' that Johnny works with/for the police to further 'crowd control'. This doesn't appear to be true. But they don't seem to care - they just add on guilt by association, general denunciation of academics, and a whole series of other allegations. Anyone who publicly speaks out against this crusade gets added to the list of 'collaborators', culminating in the ridiculous original post here that links hundreds of people, from bookfair attendees to SolFed. This is why I'm being quite cowardly and posting anonymously, because I can't deal with the stress of crossing Samotnaf at this time in my life (as someone who remembers when he used to conduct his witch-hunts by snail mail).
I've spoken to others who have a similar view. Not all agree with Johnny's work, but neither do many agree with this scandalising, attention-seeking public polemic and denunciation, or the 'cop collaborator' charges at the heart of it. I feel a bit guilty for letting libcom take all the heat on this, but then, I don't want these obsessional cranks, who know my name and personal info, coming after me too. Funny really, how someone ostensibly so concerned with policing in the movement has created such a climate of fear and harassment that people won't speak up. Which seems more authoritarian than anything Johnny's done.
Old Timer
From Contra-Info
25.01.2013 12:11
Dear liberal worms who riddle the UK movement, still nothing has been changed by what you have written. The text by Sam still stands firm, whilst Libcom, Aufheben, et al, are in the toilet, no, the sewer, with the rats. Enjoy the company of your cosy friends, mentalist enemies and other past-it one hit wonders.
Fuck off!
NC
Homepage:
http://en.contrainfo.espiv.net/2013/01/24/london-reportback-from-antifa-demo-at-holland-park/
PURGE, PURIFY
25.01.2013 12:34
Calvin
Communiqué
25.01.2013 12:49
Ultimately, however, the limitations of the exposé are reflected in the limitations of scope within many aspects of anarchist practice in the UK. It’s time to move beyond this type of exposé. We are in dire need of an honest appraisal of our tradition that draws in not just the historical but theoretical lineage of our tradition. Anarchists forsake their theory at their peril. We believe it is time to start forming that methodology and applying it in practice. This is above all what anarchists need – a methodology for the 21st century that allows us to locate a meaningful political programme within our constructive work within the class. Only then will social anarchism appear once more as a natural complement to the struggles of the exploited and a beacon of hope in the face of the neoliberal onslaught.
Collective Action
Homepage:
www.anarchistcommunist.org
Jokers shut up
25.01.2013 16:49
πυρ
Response from Samotnaf
26.01.2013 03:16
There are several comments to my text here, both pro and con, with which I do not agree, including the simplistic nature of the original post by Nihilist Communist, though I thank him for posting up the link to my article. Unfortunately I have neither the time time nor the inclination to go into these differences here and now. This is not being snotty. I have lots of other problems and stuff to deal with. I shall eventually put up my thoughts about this thread, and on the threads on Libcom and on Anarchist news - probably within a month. But I shall do so on my site: dialectical-delinquents.com. In fact, it seems more useful to critique (intelligently, not like RobRay etc.) and elaborate on the innumerable different points on my site rather than here.
Thanks to those who have responded to this text positively, even if I sometimes disagree with some of what you say. For those who haven't read it, I should emphasise that the text is not simply about Aufheben or JD at all, but covers such things as a history of the police, soft cop tactics, a critique of the use of academic research by our enemies, a brief analysis of the middle class, the contradictions of revolutionary organisations and cliques and the contradictions of friendship, plus other stuff of more general use.
all the best -
Sam
SamFantoSamotnaf
e-mail:
endangeredphoenix@aliceadsl.fr
Homepage:
dialectical-delinquents.com
@ πυρ
26.01.2013 11:00
I was thinking of writing a few lines to support a few of the people you said shut up to; now that makes me guilty of everything that's been written on here about everyone I think ;-)
By your logic that John Dury works for the police, you work for the state. You either: pay taxes, claim benefits, use state services, or similar; this will involve some talking to them, therefore blah blah blah.
observer
so when is collaboration not collaboration?
04.02.2013 13:34
His great deeds include:
- co-presenting a workshop, as an expert in road protests, at an international cop conference "Investigative Psychology"
- co-authoring an article arguing for the use of his crowd psychology model in controlling protest Jane's Police Review (the principle cop magazine)
- 'expert' contributor to the Greater Manchester Police review: "Policing Major Events"
- acknowledged editor of "Crowd psychology, public order police training and the policing of football crowds" in "Policing: An International Journal of Police Strategies & Management"
- wrote and delivered a training block on a police public order training course "Science, Strategy and Tactics"
- offers consultancy to police forces on, among other things - Psychology of crowd behaviour and public disorder - the blurb includes:
"Crowd behaviour is meaningful, limited
• Different crowds have different identities (i.e. norms, values and aims)
• Knowledge based policing means understanding the identity of each
crowd
• Certain police practices can contribute to disorder through:
• Empowering a crowd (turning an aggregate into a unity)
• Legitimizing anti-police elements
• Successful policing of potentially disorderly crowds involves
• Communication of police aims
• Facilitating the crowd’s legitimate aims in order to empower self-
policing in the majority
• A graded response to potential disorder"
(Its worth explaining that outline essentially covers his model - intelligent policing avoids turning the crowd against the police and the increasing use of force and repression (graded responses) is then targeted at specific individuals or groups.
- co-authored "Knowledge-Based Public Order Policing: Principles and Practice"
This is just a selection. Collaborator?
nuff said
Link to knowledge-based policing
08.02.2013 07:28
Try this one:
SamFantoSamotnaf
Homepage:
dialectical-delinquents.com
What is collaborating
12.02.2013 12:04
His other work is to do with police involvement in disasters, to try to stop things like Hillsborough happening again.
Now maybe you think that doing any work of any sort with the police is totally unacceptable, in which case fair enough, that's your view. But plenty of people work with police in ways which I think is justifiable for radicals, for example emergency workers like paramedics, nurses and doctors, victims of sexual violence, etc.
Either way, LibCom are not implicated in any of this in any way. Yes they host Aufheben articles, but they also host articles by Samotnaf, who wrote this one. So by this logic Samotnaf also works with the police.
Yes but