Kollerstrom should work for the Sri Lankan govt's PR department. He'dd do well

Kollerstrom is an idiot to have views like this; what a waste of an otherwise thoughtful, inquisitive, investigative and insightful mind. However, his recent book on 7/7 is also flawed for, though thoroughly researched, he makes too many broad based sweeping statements which only go to discredit any contrary view to the official narrative. I recommend people read Nafeez Ahmed's well researched and non-hyperbolic book on 7/7 entitled 'The London Bombings', instead. Sticks to the facts simply, without veering off on one. The intelligent rreader can make up their own mind on why Visor Consultants where running a mock-terror drill the same morning at exactly the same 3 stations (KingsX, Adldgate & Edgware Rd).

Also, check out:  http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=17444
Also:  http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/
&: Film: 7/7 Ripple Effect:
 http://www.livevideo.com/video/CTCC/A4C62936F0294BE4BD69B7E235E65B67/7-7-ripple-effect.aspx

See also comment section on following Indymedia post few months ago:  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/03/424410.html
('Another Skeptic' protests too much..)

For a more considered and accurate view of the collusion between the Nazis & financial capitalism, read Anthony Sutton's book "Wall Street & the Rise of Hitler".
Video interview with Sutton on this subject here:  http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6244851259954264539

There is no evidence whatsoever of 7/7 being an inside job. A few coincidences picked out of an enormous event doesn't prove anything.

'Truth seeker not conspiracy theorist ' said "there is no evidence whatsoever that 7-7 was an inside job".

> oh really. Consider the following:

1). How Visor Consultants were running a terror drill at exactly the same 3 stations where the bombs went off at exactly the same time on the morning of 7/7/2005.

2). How the 'Stratfor Intelligence Agency' reported that the Met Police gave Benjamin Netanyahu warning the bombs were going to happen 10 minutes before they happened. The Met police then denied they had informed Mr Netanyahu and that they had prior knowledge of the attack, and 2 weeks after, Mossad Chief Meir Dagan admitted he had informed Mr Netanyahu of the bombs ten minutes before they exploded at 08.40am on 7/7/2005.(This could be explained by factthat Mossad simply have better intelligence - though it doesn't corroborate easily with the explanation of Visor Consultant's chief exec at the time Peter Power, who claimed that a group of rich Jewish businessmen wanted them to carry out the drill).
Ref:  http://www.livevideo.com/video/CTCC/A4C62936F0294BE4BD69B7E235E65B67/7-7-ripple-effect.aspx

3). Reports state that there were no witnesses who verified that they saw any of the alleged bombers or unattended backpacks in the carriages where the bombs went off, and that there were holes in the floor of the train after the explosions and that metal on the track where the bombs exploded was pointing upwards after the blast (witness - Bruce Lait from Cambridge) . The bombs were comprised of military grade explosives, yet the bombs were reported to be homemade explosives, which would not cause the same amount of damage (testimony of French anti-terrorist expert Christophe Chaboud, brought in the advice Scotland Yard).

4).The mysterious lack of cctv footage at any of the tube locations or the no.30 bus and the fact that bus engineeers claim that a security company came to repair the cctv in that same No-30 bus the day before the bombing (06/07), and the fact that the workers doing this took more longer than usual working on the job they were doing.

5). The mysterious re-routing of the No.30 bus, and witness statements that there were 2 separate explosions on the No-30 bus which varies from the official version of what happened, as reported by Miss Marie Oates-Whitehead, employee at the BMA and who was described as a herionne who assisted the injured after the explosion, and who died unexpectedly at her home 11 days later.

6). The mysterious witness statement of a man named Richard Jones who was on the bombed No.30 bus (who managed to give interviews to a range of tv, print and web media after the event shortly after the bus) who said he got off the bus shortly before it exploded and displayed various inconsistencies in his description of what he saw (ie: his description of the clothing and facial characteristics of the person he claimed had the backpack).

...by proliferating unqualified nonsensical waffle (terror drill (fat blokes on PCs) = smokescreen; the absence of something = something; cruise missiles; holograms; MOSSAD; Jews Jews Jews ) from people worse than SciFi convention groupies tell the world that IMC = Loon Farm.

It's effect on activism is purely detrimental... with the emphasis on mental.

What I would like to know is why do virtually all "truthers" link the JEWS!!!!111 to everything? Mossad, Netanyahu, and even "Rich Jewish Businessmen" lol!.

Get a grip you anti-semitical fuckups. Seriously, why does the left allow these idiots to spread their shit in our circles?

Reply to previous comment by 'Saddened':
'Saddened', try reading and taking apart points 1 to 6 in comment above, if you can. If you can't then, you obviously have nothing constructive to say and land yourself with accusions of being a spook (well either that or a misinformed idiot).

Check out this to see previous censuring by someone in the Indymedia collective:

 http://www.911forum.org.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=1413&sid=616405c8a6659f1bb82de2ace705c1dd

Reply to Anti-Fa:
Re: the quote about "rich jewish businessmen", not my words, but the words of Peter Power, head of 'Visor Consultants', who were running the mock terror drill with 1000 staff at the very same 3 stations at exactly the same time that morning.
See:  http://www.livevideo.com/video/CTCC/A4C62936F0294BE4BD69B7E235E65B67/7-7-ripple-effect.aspx

CORRECTION to PREVIOUS COMMENT: (this is where chinese whispers mould letiginate fact into crank conspiracy theory)>

B4 I said: Reply to Anti-Fa:
Re: the quote about "rich jewish businessmen", not my words, but the words of Peter Power, head of 'Visor Consultants', who were running the mock terror drill with 1000 staff at the very same 3 stations at exactly the same time that morning.
See:  http://www.livevideo.com/video/CTCC/A4C62936F0294BE4BD69B7E235E65B67/7-7-ripple-effect.aspx


>>> This is slightly incorrect. Visor Consultants didn't have 1000 staff working if that was implied in how I wrote this. Rather, they were WORKING FOR a company who had 1000 staff.

What I object to is the vicious attack on Nick K and others (I don’t include self-proclaimed fascists, who should be treated as criminals) by people who haven't asked the questions about the Holocaust and remain ignorant about the possible answers. I've noted that people prefer snide comments to addressing the questions I've raised about the Holocaust. Let's go further into one question - Zionist collaboration with Nazisim.

We should note that these issues aren't admitted by those who attack 'Holocaust deniers' which shows that there are interested in other things than the truth.

I would happily support an indymedia rule to ban those who state that the mass gassing of Jews did not happen without being able to provide evidence of their claims. Equally, those are seek to ban so-called deniers should equally be banned themselves if they are unable to provide evidence of mass gassing.

Below is an extract from a book exploring the history of Zionism by a prominent, US based progressive activist who is Jewish. He has an excellent website, Taking Aim, which explores the 911 false flag terrorism.

 http://takingaimradio.com/hhz/ch06.htm
THE HIDDEN HISTORY OF ZIONISM

By Ralph Schoenman



Chapter 6
Zionism and the Jews


Zionism and Fascism

The history of Zionism - largely suppressed - is sordid.

…Mussolini set up squadrons of the Revisionist Zionist youth movement, Betar, in black shirts in emulation of his own Fascist bands.

When Menachem Begin became chief of Betar, he preferred the brown shirts of the Hitler gangs…

Collaborating with the Nazis

This strategy of enlisting Europe’s virulent Jew-haters, and of aligning with the most vicious movements and regimes as financial and military patrons of a Zionist colony in Palestine, did not exclude the Nazis.

The Zionist Federation of Germany sent a memorandum of support to the Nazi Party on June 21, 1933. In it the Federation noted:

... a rebirth of national life such as is occurring in German life ... must also take place in the Jewish national group.

On the foundation of the new [Nazi] state which has established the principle of race, we wish so to fit our community into the total structure so that for us, too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the Fatherland is possible ... [81]

Far from repudiating this policy, the World Zionist Organization Congress in 1933 defeated a resolution calling for action against Hitler by a vote of 240 to 43.

During this very Congress, Hitler announced a trade agreement with the WZO’s Anglo-Palestine Bank, breaking, thereby, the Jewish boycott of the Nazi regime at a time when the German economy was extremely vulnerable. It was the height of the Depression and people were wheeling barrels full of worthless German Marks. The World Zionist Organization broke the Jewish boycott and became the principal distributor of Nazi goods throughout the Middle East and Northern Europe. They established the Ha’avara, which was a bank in Palestine designed to receive monies from the German-Jewish bourgeoisie, with which sums Nazi goods were purchased in very substantial quantity.

Embracing the S.S.

Consequently, the Zionists brought Baron Von Mildenstein of the S.S. Security Service to Palestine for a six-month visit in support of Zionism. This visit led to a twelve-part report by Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s Minister of Propaganda, in Der Angriff (The Assault) in 1934 praising Zionism. Goebbels ordered a medallion struck with the Swastika on one side, and on the other, the Zionist Star of David. In May 1935, Reinhardt Heydrich, the chief of the S.S. Security Service, wrote an article in which he separated Jews into "two categories." The Jews he favored were the Zionists: "Our good wishes together with our official good will go with them."[82] In 1937, the Labor "socialist" Zionist militia, the Haganah (founded by Jabotinsky) sent an agent (Feivel Polkes) to Berlin offering to spy for the S.S. Security Service in exchange for the release of Jewish wealth for Zionist colonization. Adolf Eichmann was invited to Palestine as the guest of the Haganah.

Feivel Polkes informed Eichmann:

Jewish nationalist circles were very pleased with the radical German policy, since the strength of the Jewish population in Palestine would be so far increased thereby that in the foreseeable future the Jews could reckon upon numerical superiority over the Arabs. [83]

The list of acts of Zionist collaboration with the Nazis goes on and on. What can account for this incredible willingness of Zionist leaders to betray the Jews of Europe? The entire rationale for the state of Israel offered by its apologists has been that it was intended to be the refuge of Jews facing persecution.

The Zionists, to the contrary, saw any effort to rescue Europe’s Jews not as the fulfilment of their political purpose but as a threat to their entire movement. If Europe’s Jews were saved, they would wish to go elsewhere and the rescue operation would have nothing to do with the Zionist project of conquering Palestine.

Sacrificing Europe’s Jews

The correlative to the acts of collaboration with the Nazis throughout the 1930’s was that when attempts to change the immigration laws of the United States and Western Europe were contemplated in order to provide token refuge for persecuted Jews of Europe, it was the Zionists who actively organized to stop these efforts.

Ben Gurion informed a meeting of Labor Zionists in Great Britain in 1938: "If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England and only half of them by transporting them to Eretz Israel, then I opt for the second alternative." [84] This obsession with colonizing Palestine and overwhelming the Arabs led the Zionist movement to oppose any rescue of the Jews facing extermination, because the ability to deflect select manpower to Palestine would be impeded. From 1933 to 1935, the WZO turned down two-thirds of all the German Jews who applied for immigration certificates.

Berel Katznelson, editor of the Labor Zionist Davar, described the "cruel criteria of Zionism": German Jews were too old to bear children in Palestine, lacked trades for building a Zionist colony, didn’t speak Hebrew and weren’t Zionists. In place of these Jews facing extermination the WZO brought to Palestine 6,000 trained young Zionists from the United States, Britain and other safe countries. Worse than this, the WZO not merely failed to seek any alternative for the Jews facing the Holocaust, the Zionist leadership opposed belligerently all efforts to find refuge for fleeing Jews…

the highly strung intellectual pip squeeks at imc have butchered your thoughts oh joe public

only they can decide for you what you can see of your own thoughts

this is called progress, you know, you being the media

what a miserable failed project it is

shame

& that's all before any analysis of the content of this thread - a task rendered irrelivent, if not impossible by the censors pen (oh how they hate their actions being decribed thus - tough is what it is)

for GODS sake (and any other morally unassailable positioning) do not let any one question or speak in less than hushed tones about this 60 year old event

you could be corrupted or even worse labled

and when precisely did we decend from the trees? seems like it were only last week

There is nothing wrong with being ignorant. But you have to be arrogant to use that ignorance to attack others who have done some research. Those who attack so-called Holocaust deniers as vile, Nazis are ignorant. It should be no surprise to find that those who do themselves who don't know the basics about the Holocaust.

Below is evidence that you don't need to be a vile, fascist, so-called anti-Semite to question the Holocaust.

 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520557,00.html

Holocaust Denial Widespread Among Israel's Arabs
Monday, May 18, 2009
PrintShareThis
JERUSALEM ? More than 40 percent of Israel's Arab citizens say the Holocaust never happened, and barely one half think Israel has a right to exist, according to a survey published Monday. But the academic who directed it said the results were likely more statements of protest than belief...

...The survey found that 41 percent of respondents say the Holocaust never happened, up from 28 percent who said so in 2006 when the question was first asked.

Holocaust denial is rampant among Palestinians and in Arab countries neighboring Israel. But Arabs in Israel have frequent contact with Jews and learn about the Holocaust in school...



From the pro-Zionist Anti-Defemation League website

 http://www.adl.org/Holocaust/Denial_ME/default.asp

Holocaust Denial in the Middle East:
The Latest anti-Israel, Anti-Semitic Propaganda Theme
A longtime phenomenon in the West, Holocaust denial now regularly occurs throughout the Middle East. in speeches and pronouncements by public figures, in articles and columns by journalists, and in the resolutions of professional organizations. While some voices oppose this deliberate distortion of the historical record, the main tenet of Holocaust denial that Jews invented the Holocaust story in an attempt to advance their own interests appears to be an increasingly accepted belief for large numbers of people in Arab and Muslim states. The growing affinity for the Middle East demonstrated by Western Holocaust deniers hard-pressed by anti-hate legislation in their native countries?underscores the fact that the Middle East is one of the few regions in the world today where governments do not condemn, and sometimes even sponsor, such anti-Semitic propaganda.

The effort to deny the basic facts of the Holocaust has its roots not in the Middle East but in Europe and the United States, and it stretches back, if not to the Nazis themselves, then to the years immediately following World War II. To make their claims credible, Holocaust deniers are forced to reject enormous volumes of historical evidence. Holocaust Denial: From East to West >>

The Arab perception of the Holocaust has never been monolithic, and has often been influenced by the vicissitudes of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Hatred of Israel has led some Arabs to embrace Nazism itself, and to applaud its attempted genocide of the Jews.

But now another approach to the Holocaust has arisen in the Middle East: to deny it ever occurred. In some cases, Holocaust denial is actively sponsored by national governments, such as Iran and Syria. In other Middle Eastern countries, however, denying or minimizing the extent of the killing of Jews during World War II has been adopted by opposition parties and dissident factions that oppose attempts at normalizing relations -- legal, diplomatic, economic -- with Israel or the United States.
Differing Arab views on the Holocaust >>

The first flickerings of Holocaust denial in the Middle East began in the 1970s, when the German born Holocaust Denier, Ernst Zundel, published a four-page pamphlet entitled, "The West, War, and Islam," and sent it to the heads of state of several Middle Eastern countries. In the 1980's, indigenous Middle Eastern sources began to develop. The Palestinian, Mahmoud Abbas suggested that the number of Jewish victims of the Holocaust was far fewer than six million. In July 1990 the PLO-affiliated Palestinian Red Crescent published an article claiming that Jews concocted "the lie concerning the gas chambers."
1970s-1990s: Beginning of Denial in Middle East >>

In the 1990s, Holocaust denial became de rigeur in popular media throughout the Middle East and the Palestinian Authority. This is true even in Egypt and Jordan, the two Arab countries which have taken steps to normalize relations with Israel.
1990s-2001: Normalizing Denial>>

In recent years Western Holocaust deniers have turned to the Arab world for help when facing prosecution in various countries for illegal activities. Wolfgang Fröhlich and Jürgen Graf have sought refuge in Iran, and Roger Garaudy was hailed as a hero throughout the Middle East when he faced persecution by the French government for inciting racial hatred. Other Western Holocaust deniers have also sought entrée to the Middle East, including Mark Weber and Bradley Smith.
Western Deniers in the Middle East >>

One of the most important signs of the growing ties between Western Holocaust deniers and the Arab world came to light in December 2000, when the Institute for Historical Review announced that its fourteenth revisionist conference would take place in Beirut, Lebanon, in early April 2001. Encouragingly, an international controversy ensued and the conference was eventually banned by the Lebanese government.
Banned in Beirut: The 2001 IHR Conference >>

Although Holocaust denial has traditionally been limited to the fringe movements of Western neo-Nazis and white supremacists, it has in recent years found a new home in the Middle East. There the potent anti-Semitic assumptions that Holocaust denial is founded upon?most importantly the myth of the world Jewish conspiracy make it a political weapon of choice for those who would increase their own influence at the expense of Israel and regional stability. Whether wielded by governments, opposition parties, professional organizations or journalists, Holocaust denial in the Middle East is a troubling and still-evolving phenomenon that bears continued watching in the future.

 http://www.adl.org/Holocaust/Denial_ME/in_own_words.asp
Holocaust Denial in the Middle East:
The Latest anti-Israel, Anti-Semitic Propaganda Theme
Middle - Eastern Deniers in Their Own Words
Examples of expressions of Holocaust denial in major Arab media:
Jews haved "profited... from the talk about the Nazi killings"

On August 25, 1997, a Palestinian Authority cultural affairs television program featured an interview with Hassan al-Agha, a Palestinian author and professor at the Islamic University in Gaza City:

Moderator: It is well known that every year the Jews exaggerate what the Nazis did to them. They claim there were six million killed, but precise scientific research demonstrates that there were no more than 400,000. Has the complex which the Jews have as a result of the Nazis' actions created within them psychological burdens which they are now releasing against the Palestinians?

Al-Agha: The truth is I do not think so. Psychological baggage after forty or fifty years?.I am skeptical?.But I do think that we are talking about an investment. They have profited materially, spiritually, politically and economically from the talk about the Nazi killings. This investment is favorable to them and they view it as a profitable activity so they inflate the number of victims all the time. In another ten years, I do not know what number they will reach?As you know, when it comes to economics and investments, the Jews have been very experienced ever since the days of the Merchant of Venice.

David Bar-Ilan, a spokesman for then Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, released the transcript of the program to Western reporters, who covered the incident in English media. Several days later Radwan Abu Ayash, head of the Palestinian Broadcast Corporation, announced that Al-Agha's remarks did not reflect the opinion of the Palestinian Authority, but defended them as "freedom of expression."

"Israel prospers and exists by right of the Holocaust lie"

"Israel prospers and exists by right of the Holocaust lie and the Israeli government's policy of intentional exaggeration?the glue which holds the Jews together is the preservation of the memory of the Holocaust and the thousands of Jews who were destroyed in it?"

Lebanese writer and politician Dr. Issam Naaman,
writing in the London Arab newspaper Al-Quds Al-Arabi.
April 22, 1998
(translated by the Antisemitism Monitoring Forum)

"There is no proof at all..."

"The entire Jewish State is built on the great Holocaust lie. . . What is the proof that Hitler and the Nazis murdered six million Jews in gas chambers? There is no proof at all, except for the conflicting testimonies of a few Jewish 'survivors.' If six million Jews had been burned, mountains of ashes would have been created, but we have never heard of this. There are also no ovens that are capable of burning millions without someone noticing the smell. There is no proof that such a number of Jews lived in Germany in the 1930s. Their number was less than four million and half of them fled to the Soviet Union during the war?.

"Hitler did not kill the Jews because they were Jews, but rather because they betrayed Germany. In any case, he murdered 300,000 Jews and that is the real number that he killed. At this opportunity mention should be made of the fact that the Jewish State murdered a larger number of Palestinians and Arabs over fifty years. The Holocaust is not what happened to the Jews in Germany, but rather the crime of the establishment of the State of Israel on the ruins of the Palestinian people."

Mahmoud Al-Khatib,
writing in the Jordanian newspaper Al-Arab Al-Yom
April 27, 1998
(translated by the Antisemitism Monitoring Forum)

I do not have time to go into a detailed rebuttal of Nick Kollerstrom's paper at present becuase I am at work, but I will add a couple of points here. For one thing I am not quite sure what you are trying to prove with regard to Zionists working with the Nazi's. There were also Black tribal leaders who participated in the slave trade - this does not make the slave trade any less offensive, nor does it prove that it did not happen, so what is your point?

Likewise, the fact that there are many in the Middle East who voice anti-semitic opinions, or believe that the holocaust did no happen proves nothing in particular either. What are you trying to say here, becuase it is popular in the Middle East it therefore has some validity?

With regard to Nick Kollerstrom's paper - you accuse people of ignorance about the Holocaust then cite Kollerstrom's paper as being 'researched' - yet from what I can see there is not an original line in his paper, it is just a cut and paste of other denier's work. Moreover, and more importantly, there is not a single reference to any primary sources in the paper. Not a single German wartime document has been assessed - he takes all of his conclusions second hand (from right wing denier's who have not got the honesty to point out where there is evidence to contradict their claims

Kollerstrom has always maintained he is willing to debate his finding with anyone - yet when mildly questioned on his paper on the 9/11 truth boards by someone called 'Dogsmilk' - he called for the critical comments to be deleted.

Anyone whose 'science' of the holocaust relies on the work of the likes of Leuchter and Germar Rudolf seriously needs to read a bit wider. With regard to the chemistry argument I would suggest Kollerstrom and yourself read some of these. Pressac's work is of particular interest as he himself started out as a denier before realising how misled he had been by the likes of Faurisson:

 http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/holes-report/holes-intro.shtml

 http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/

 http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

 http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/

 http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/blue/

 http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/not-the-science/

For the much maligned testimony of Hoess, see:

 http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/hoess-memoirs/

I notice, Inside Job, on a thread on one of the 9/11 boards, you repeat the old canard about the numbers of dead given at Auschwitz by the Soviet authorities and how the revision downwards somehow affects the overall total of dead.

How you can claim to be 'informed' yet still hold this opinion is beyond me. The total of 5.7-6 million Jewish dead during the Holocaust HAS ALWAYS been calculated using a figure of around 1.1 million dead at Auschwitz (remarkably similar to the figure Hoess himself cites) - the four million figure WAS NEVER accepted by academic historians of the holocaust - if you believe otherwise please furnish me with a bibliography of contemporary works on the holocaust which state that of the 6 million dead 4 million of those died at Auschwitz. If this figure ever was accepted then the total figure would be in the region of 10 million, but it was not, so revising the figure downwards HAS NO EFFECT ON THE OVERALL TOTAL.

I have heard it said that Kollerstrom does not think of himself as an anti-semite, and maybe he is a perfectly nice bloke - but he is no historian if his 'research' is anything to go by - he may not be an anti semite himself - but his entire bibliography is culled from the work of anti-semites, and he is therefore still acting as a purveyor of hate and lies and this is why he is getting grief.

As usual, the wizard turns up, his white lab coat flaping in the wind replete with cerificates aknowledging his pride ...

So 'An historian fed up with these lies' (and aren't we all, historians together, fed up with some lies or other) your claim, capital lettered for assurity, that the confusion in the numbers and ultimate confusion about the contrary histories of this grizzly place, need not concern us and have no effect on the holocaust narrative (one so hallowed as to be more commemorated and remembered than even indiginous war 'stories').

One begns to wonder just what would have an effect on shifting the Kabbalistically redolant number away from the 6 million; International census data from before and after the war commissioned by a variety of source both jewish and non jewish that show - lets say - a statistically unusual pattern of instant regrowth of world and european jewish populations (it shows a marked hole in european christain populations for the same period; publically accessable data from the Red Cross archives that suggested an overall death at the labour camp of 73 000; the soviet era propagander, enscribed on a monument up until 1991 and never to my knowledge dismissed by the orthodox historian as being insignificant nor non contibutary to the overall and oft repeated numbers, detailing the deaths of 4 million, mostly jews there; or the post soviet era, Polish erected monument that perhaps only as many as 1.5 million perished., some of them jews?

Talk about cannards; you cannot cite sources of historians, even, that support your unorthodox claims as they themselves are rendered unorthodox - or in this seedy example, smeared easily as anti-semites themselves.

Semantic terrorism, stalinistic nonsense.