If you're so angry by taxpayers' money being used to help the banks (and, incidentally, if they hadn't been bailed out, EVERYONE would have lost their savings, houses etc - would that have been better?), why does it not bother you that taxpayers now have to pay to clean up all the crap you've written everywhere?

I suppose most of you aren't taxpayers, are you...

The government then should have given the money to the people let the banks go bust that is what is supposed to happen with capitalism!

It isn’t the protesters’ fault that the authorities are going to waste taxpayers money cleaning off interesting chalking and if it’s on bank property then it should be you lot cleaning it up. You created the anger you clean up the mess.

>>> The government then should have given the money to the people let the banks go bust that is what is supposed to happen with capitalism!

It doesn't quite work like that. If the banks all go bust our economy stalls and then the pound will nosedive. We'll be dieing of starvation within a month because we can't afford to import food. It'll be a bit like a 3rd world country, we'll all be living off handouts from oxfam.

And this nonsense of giving the money to the people. An equal share each i presume? One man will invest it in a business, the other will spend it at the pub... just doesn't work.
This is exactly whats caused the mess. A certain type of person has borrowed loads of money and can't pay it back to the back - creating the toxic debt. Ultimately, its the banks loaning money to irresponsible borrowers thats caused this mess.

Who do you think has to pay for the mess you've made?

05.04.2009 18:49

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I guess paying billions to the banksters in bailouts so they can give themselves large bonuses doesn't bother you (as a tax payer) at all?

But few thousands to clean the mess does.

Just think for a while before you post!

“if they hadn't been bailed out, EVERYONE would have lost their savings, houses etc”

Houses aren't lost, they're taken by thugs, called bailiffs, empowered by the courts to protect capital. The repossessions will cease to function, when, either people organise to reclaim their homes, or the amount of bank owned houses cannot be re-sold because of the lack of buyers.

“why does it not bother you that taxpayers now have to pay to clean up all the crap you've written everywhere? “

If you and your masters were not distorting the truth so much, it would not need to be written on the walls. Do you really prefer the bombardment of images and text from the advertising industry exploiting violent sexual fantasy to sell the product?

“ I suppose most of you aren't taxpayers, are you...”

Actually, people on low incomes contribute a bigger proportion in tax (VAT 15%) than the wealthy, and where are the tax havens for the poor?


“The government then should have given the money to the people let the banks go bust that is what is supposed to happen with capitalism!”

It is the value of money that is now disappearing. The Japanese have tried this. It will not work. The more money they print, the less it is worth.

“ We'll be dieing of starvation within a month because we can't afford to import food. It'll be a bit like a 3rd world country, we'll all be living off handouts from Oxfam.”

During WW2, UK was blockaded by German U-boats, just like Cuba is today by US warships. We did'nt starve, we dug for victory. The Cubans didn't starve, they decentralised food production by planting every bit of available land with food. Now is the time to put seeds in the ground! Oxfam's wealth is part of the surplus extracted by capitalism and is disappearing just as fast

.” Ultimately, its the banks loaning money to irresponsible borrowers thats caused this mess.”

You don't do denial, do you Ted? 120% mortgages at the height of the housing market. As house prices plummet, the most we can get is 80%. Just like a police kettle; at first , permeable cordon, you can enter you can leave. Add heat, the contents of the kettle expand. Seal the kettle, nothing in, nothing out. But who left the heat on? The pressure rises, the kettle bursts. Are the H2O atoms responsible?

IAN TOMLINSON DIED IN POLICE CUSTODY ON FINANCIAL FOOLS DAY AT THE BANK OF ENGLAND. WE WILL REMEMBER HIM BY MARCHING AGAIN AND AGAIN TO THE PLACE OF HIS DEATH UNTIL POWER IS DISSOLVED. ALL POWER TO THE WINDOW MAKERS!

Non-banker, by the same token, it is not the bankers' fault that the authorities are deciding to "waste taxpayers' money" on bailing out the banks. The people created the crisis by irresponsible borrowing, so if we follow your logic, there shouldn't be anything wrong with using their money to "clean up the mess".



George B, I suggest you think before you post. Your ignorance of how the financial system works reflects that of most of the population, which is why we've had a mob baying for bankers' blood without having the faintest idea what it's talking about. It's not simply a case of "taxpayers' money in, bonuses for useless bankers out", as you seem to think. The bonuses are pre-existing contractual obligations payable to talented people who made money for the bank. Although the bank OVERALL made a loss, it is inequitable to deny a bonus to someone whose department DID make a profit. Obviously, the bankers who made losses did not receive a bonus, and rightly not. That's why "no rewards for failure" are just empty words; there was never any intention not to pay a bonus to people who had done their jobs well and made money.



I don't think there's much point in responding to Post-capitalist's bizarre comment, other than to say that this:

"Actually, people on low incomes contribute a bigger proportion in tax (VAT 15%) than the wealthy, and where are the tax havens for the poor?" is entirely incorrect.

It assumes that VAT is the only tax (which is isn't), and that it is payable on everything (which it isn't). VAT is a tax on luxury/non-essential goods anyway; if those on low incomes don't want to pay it, they only need to cease buying luxury goods. But at any rate, income tax at 40% (which the "wealthy", as you call them, pay) is, in my book, a higher proportion than income tax at 20% (which the low and median earners pay). Tax havens are only worthwhile for the seriously rich; I pay £40,000 in tax every year and they're not available to me.


Oh, and I should probably point out that H2O atoms are inanimate; protesters aren't.

"This is exactly whats caused the mess. A certain type of person has borrowed loads of money and can't pay it back to the back - creating the toxic debt. Ultimately, its the banks loaning money to irresponsible borrowers thats caused this mess".

This is VERY funny! A "certain" type of person! I presume you are referring to those too poor to pay back what they needed to borrow to put a decent roof over their heads in this insane system, rather than those so greedy they have bought several large houses, cars, boats and god knows what else?

The whole mess was created by the poor eh? haha.

"This is exactly whats caused the mess. A certain type of person has borrowed loads of money and can't pay it back to the back - creating the toxic debt. Ultimately, its the banks loaning money to irresponsible borrowers thats caused this mess."

Ted, this really is a backward and devisive way to go.

A certain type of person has created this mess...the bankers and associated trades. They created this mess by encouraging people to borrow knowing that the debts were bad from the off. If you lend money knowing the person you lend to doesn't have the money to pay you back then you can't complain about a default, can you?

You also ignore the bonus culture that exists within the banking system. Those who have been working for the banks have been paid to make the loans. Financial incentive has caused this mess.

To say that the people are responsible for all this is silly. They don't want the loans ordinarily. They just want to live with some degree of stabiity. It is the bankers and their sponsors, the gobalists, that have spent milions making these financial instruments attractive. Milions in advertising and promotion. Millions in bonus payments and incentives to staff to sell this credit.

Now its al gone wrong and what a surprise, its everybody elses fault!

The globalists control the banking system and the banking system executes the agenda of the globalists. Within this is a business ideology that is extreme and subversive. Don't worry about the ethics of it, just sell sell sell the product. Don't worry if people can't pay it back. There's as much money in debt as solvency. Thats the ideology and its backed up by business practice that encourages staff to do the unthinkable.

As far as the world is concerned and the ordinary people who live within it, a lot don't have any debt at all. I turned my back on this system 6-7 years ago. I'm debt-free. A lot of people grow their own, a lot of people only buy goods that they genuinely NEED. They will be fine.

It is the banking industry that has most to lose here. The sharp-suited, hair gelled, machiavellians that haven't thought ethically and haven't made provision for the future that will bear the brunt of this.

You will become the first 21st century Lotus-Eaters, wheels an all!

Non-banker, "The people created the crisis by irresponsible borrowing".

No you and other bankers created this mess by allowing people to borrow money they couldn't pay back. Stop passing the buck. Banks and bankers are ultimately responsible for the money their bank lends. And capitalist culture is responsible for making people feel they need the money to borrow in the first place.

Do you know WTF your talking about?
"It's not simply a case of "taxpayers' money in, bonuses for useless bankers out", as you seem to think. The bonuses are pre-existing contractual obligations payable to talented people who made money for the bank. Although the bank OVERALL made a loss, it is inequitable to deny a bonus to someone whose department DID make a profit. "Obviously, the bankers who made losses did not receive a bonus, and rightly not"

Did RBS make a profit NO. Did "the talented” Fred Goodwin get a bonus YES in the shape of a generous pension. His pension was discretionary, the pension package was approved by ministers in October before he left the bank. Why was he even allowed to retire he should have been sacked which would have saved a bit of money.

Post-capitalist your spot on about "Now is the time to put seeds in the ground!" This current system of a continual growth economy is and always was unsustainable. We are running out of the resources that are necessary to sustain the current economic model so we will all have to become more self-sufficient in the future because when the resouses do run out the current 'crisis' will look like a walk in the park.

......George B, I suggest you think before you post. Your ignorance of how the financial system works reflects that of most of the population, which is why we've had a mob baying for bankers' blood without having the faintest idea what it's talking about......
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You can say whatever you want, i would let the banks collapse and sort their own mess!!!

But what do you call the bank charges then?

I call it robbing people!

If the bank paid £30 for you direct debit (even if you haven't asked them to) and you haven't had enough money in your account and they blow it (in weekly charges) in couple of months to £500!!!

How would you call that???

And then they send you nice letter that if you need help with your dept (???My debt???)
you can call free number!!!

Why should I pay the debt they created out of the thin air???

Especialy when bank charges (according to OFT) are unlawful???

I don't want to have a bank account, but can you live without one today???

Everything is connected to the BANKSTERS, they have made sure that they are in control of "YOUR" money not you!!!

I don't need to think about what is right and what is wrong BANKSTER, robbing people is WRONG even if you do it with a smile on your @~£%*& face and stupid ad like "We are here for you"!!!

Fundamentally worthless fiat currency the banksters call 'money' is only part of the problem. Yes, they can increase supply and/or interest rates to boost the value of this currency, or they can decrease the supply and/or lower interest rates to devalue the currency to benefit the banks and their shareholders.

One of the main problems behind this social disaster we are facing is the theft and destruction of common land in Britain and around the world. Did you know that the Queen owns nearly 7 billion acres of land, that is worth at least fifty trillion poound [£50,000,000,000.00? Does she pay tax on that I wonder?

Seems to be one law for the rich and another for the poor!

The people of Britain need to reclaim the common land that has been stolen by the robber baron over hundreds of years and start using gold, silver and other methods of exchange. This might be a slow process, but it is the only way to go. What the government doesn't want people to know is that they are quite capable of organising, managing and regulating their own lives without the help of thieves, hypocrites and liars.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

"A certain type of person has borrowed loads of money and can't pay it back to the back - creating the toxic debt. Ultimately, its the banks loaning money to irresponsible borrowers thats caused this mess."


That's a massive oversimplification. If it was just a matter of irresponsible borrowers, then the banks would have automatically compensated with stricter loan conditions as they noticed their profits dropping. They know there'll be a certain percentage of bad debts and that's part of their business model.

The problem came because the banks resold the loans as being safer investments than they really were.