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This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

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Protests for Gaza in Berlin and Tel Aviv (censored on German IMC)

Wladek Flakin | 04.03.2008 13:24 | Indymedia | Palestine

The following article was deleted from Indymedia Germany ( http://de.indymedia.org/2008/03/209474.shtml). As the translation below shows, it is just a short report of rallies in Berlin and Tel Aviv against the Israeli offensive in Gaza.

Berlin
Berlin

Tel Aviv
Tel Aviv

Tel Aviv
Tel Aviv


A number of former radical leftists in Germany have, in the last few years, transformed themselves into defenders of the Zionist state. Their political arithmetic is essentially: "we are against Nazis, and some German Nazis say they support Palestine, therefore we must ... support the state of Israel!" There is of course a more complicated theoretical background to this tendency ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Germans_%28communist_current%29), but their absurdity is best summed up in their famous slogan: "For communism! Long live Israel!"

These so-called "Anti-Germans" terrorize youth centers and other left-wing projects (like Indymedia) with accusations of anti-semitism, as soon as any criticism of Israel is expressed. They have even gone so far as to attack Israeli Jews at antifascist demonstrations in Berlin!

For this reason, the Indymedia Germany collective has a (semi-official) policy of not publishing any articles about Israel or Palestine. We have a certain sympathy for the moderators of Indymedia Germany, who don't want to spend their time editing flame wars on their site (they could also get in trouble for insults and threats). However, we can't agree with a policy of caving in to Zionist attacks and slanders.

At the moment, there is not one article about the massacre in Gaza on the Indymedia Germany web site! Not one!

We don't think this is acceptable. For this reason, we publish the censored article here, in English and in German. We are confident that no Indymedia site anywhere outside Germany will be afraid to publish reports about the Israeli massacre in Gaza and the international protests against it.

by Wladek Flakin, Berlin, from the international youth organization REVOLUTION ( http://www.onesolutionrevolution.org)



Protests for Gaza in Berlin and Tel Aviv

On Sunday, March 2, about 100 people gathered at the Hermannplatz in Berlin to protest against the ongoing Israeli offensive in the Gaza strip. Since last Wednesday, more than 100 Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli army, including several children. We are dealing with the biggest Israeli operation in Gaza since the year 2000.

The participants in the rally stood in a circle with Palestine flags. They listed to several speeches, some of which were completely spontaneous, and chanted "Hoch die internationale Solidarität!" There were speeches in German and Arabic, including a speech by an Israeli activist.

An activist from Jerusalem said in the name of the Israelis present: "We don't want this massacre. We want something different: a country in which we can all live together in peace". Referring to the upcoming 60th anniversary of the founding of the state of Israeli he said: "We want a different kind of independence, independence from militarism and imperialism!"

During the rally, participants laid down flowers in remembrance of the dead in Gaza. A young Palestinian was briefly detained by the police because he supposedly had a knife with him.

On the same day, 300 people took part in a rally in front of the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv. With posters and red flags they demanded an end to the offensive in the Gaza Strip. The demonstrators were attacked by police, and at least three of them were arrested.

Here's the original in German...



Kundgebungen für Gaza in Berlin und Tel Aviv

Am Sonntag, den 2. März, versammelten sich rund 100 Menschen am Hermannplatz in Berlin, um gegen die laufende israelische Offensive im Gazastreifen zu protestieren. Allein seit Mittwoch sind rund 100 PalästinenserInnen von der israelischen Armee getötet worden, darunter mehrere Kinder (1). Damit haben wir es mit dem größten israelischen Angriff seit dem Jahr 2000 zu tun.

Mit Palästina-Fahnen standen die KundgebungsteilnehmerInnen im Kreis auf dem Platz. Sie hörten sich mehrere, teils spontane Redebeiträge an und riefen "Hoch die internationale Solidarität!" Es gab Redebeiträge auf Deutsch und Arabisch, auch eine Rede von einem israelischen Aktivisten.

Der Aktivist aus Jerusalem sagte im Namen der anwesenden Israelis: "Wir wollen dieses Massaker nicht. Wir wollen etwas anderes: ein Land, wo alle in Frieden miteinander leben können". In Bezug auf den bevorstehenden 60. Jahrestag der Unabhängigkeit des Staates Israel meinte er weiter: "Wir wollen eine andere Unabhängigkeit, Unabhängigkeit vom Militarismus und Imperialismus."

Während der Kundgebung legten die TeilnehmerInnen Blumen im Gedenken an die Toten von Gaza nieder. Ein junger Palästinenser wurde vorübergehende festgenommen, weil er angeblich ein Messer bei sich hatte.

Am gleichen Tag nahmen rund 300 Menschen an einer Kundgebung vor dem Verteidigungsministerium in Tel Aviv teil. Mit Plakaten und roten Fahnen forderten sie ein Ende der Offensive im Gazastreifen. Während der Kundgebung wurden DemonstrantInnen von der Polizei angegriffen, mindestens drei von ihnen wurden verhaftet.

Wladek Flakin
- Homepage: http://www.onesolutionrevolution.org

Additions

Response from Indymedia Germany: Article Re-instated

05.03.2008 08:34

Hi,


[en] [Übersetzung unten]

it's true that de.indymedia.org has a policy [1] to hide postings that
are covering the middle east conflict in a very one-sided and
inflammatory way. Reason for that is the so called "anti-german -
anti-imp" conflict within the german left that caused lots of flame wars
on the website - especially since 2002.

But since  http://de.indymedia.org/2008/03/209474.shtml is reporting
about the demonstration quite objectively the decision to hide it has
been a mistake and the article was put back online this night.

[1]  http://de.indymedia.org/static/statement200206.shtml (in german
language only)



[de]

es stimmt, dass de.indymedia.org eine Richtlinie [1] hat Postings zu
verstecken, die den Nahhost-Konflikt in einer sehr einseitigen und
aufhetzerischen Weise behandeln. Der Grund dafür ist der sogenannte
"anti-deutsche - anti-imp"-Konflikt innerhalb der deutschen Linken, der
viele flame-wars auf der Webseite hervorgerufen hatte - besonders seit 2002.

Aber da  http://de.indymedia.org/2008/03/209474.shtml ziemlich sachlich
über die Demonstration berichtet ist die Entscheidung es zu verstecken
ein Fehler gewesen und der Artikel wurde diese Nacht wieder online gestellt.

[1]  http://de.indymedia.org/static/statement200206.shtml


briks

 http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-germany/2008-March/0305-w4.html

Palestine will always be free!


Comments

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Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Welcome in the UK

04.03.2008 13:29

"the Indymedia Germany collective has a (semi-official) policy of not publishing any articles about Israel or Palestine"

Well they will have no problem getting published here. The UK collective publishes little other than articles about the area. Remove the Israeli/ Palestinian/Jews running the world stuff from the UK site and there is little left

K


bullshit

04.03.2008 14:03

this post is absolute bullshit. IMC Germany has a publicly stated policy to not allow anti-German posts on its site. It has explicitly taken side against Israel in the conflict. There are numerous articles covering human rights abuses of Palestinians.

If the above article was really deleted it was probably because neo-Nazis attended the pro-Palestinian rally. As the right and left move closer together on this issue, Nazis have of course adopted the cause of the Palestinians (it's a good way of fostering support for anti-Semitism, and a way of pretending there are such things as 'peoples', 'nations' etc.


fight anti-semitism, no war but class war!!!

anti-berliner


see what i mean?

04.03.2008 14:15

the comment from "anti-berliner" shows exactly how this censorship operates: "there was a rally in Berlin for Gaza? well it must have been Nazis!"

Wladek Flakin


Transparency?!

04.03.2008 14:16

Where are the list archives for moderation decisions for imc germany?

Where can we read about why this post was hidden in the first place?

And is there a statement saying imc germany won't cover a story if the far-right turn up?

investigator


anti-germans and nazis

04.03.2008 14:20

In mainland Europe there is huge neo-nazi, nazi, autonomous nazi/black block nazi and anti-zionist support for Palestine in it's opposition to israel. This support is purely anti-semitic.

On the otherside the anti-deutsch (anti-german) pledge there support for the Jewish people which is transended into support for Israel. Although anti-deutsch politics are mostly absurd and rediculous the underlying thoughts are an approach to try and abolish anti-semitism and all the factors in society that create and/or regenerate this. The anti-deutsch still believe that germany is the most likely country from the world powers that could have another "nazi-era". Although I myself am not anti-deutsch and I am a long way away from it politically I do understand that it is a very touchy subject in germany. Especially with far-right politics even gainig accolades for there stance of support for Palestine.

I do not say that it is right in anyway to censor the murders of the Palestinian people but it is something that should not be whined about alone on other indymedias, without even giving a perspective of the anti-deutsch. The author himself of this article is not a native to germany so maybe he hasn't had time to try to understand the anti-deutsch before he slanderously puts them all down without portraying WHY.

On the other-hand I have now just red the linked web-site and he fits the bill of a stereotypical socialist............burn!

Unparteiische person


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

IMC moderation issues

04.03.2008 15:29

in the past, such posts as the above were deleted or hidden on the grounds that indymedia should not provide a platform for criticisms of other IMC's. Is this different now that the issue is about ISRAEL?

If so, it might be allowed pointing out that 3 moderators have already left over too virulent anti-Semitism on IMC UK, and that the indymedia project is close to collapse.

yyy


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

german identity and zionism

04.03.2008 16:01

would it also be a coincidence that 2 of those volunteers who left imc uk were native germans?

imc-uk is far from 'collapsing' if anything the regional imc's are getting more participative and autonomous :P

?!?!?!?!?!?!


the nazi threat...

04.03.2008 16:05

no one in his right mind will think that this was a nazi demo.

it was taking place in Hermanplatz between Kreuzberg and Neukoelln, an area mainly populated with migrants, many of them from palestine. The Report was also citing an Israeli activist: nazis might support palestine (in their twisted way), but they will not let a jew speak in their demo. It is also well known that palestinians and the palestinian solidarity groups in Germany don't work with nazis and always refused to work with them.


ggggggg
- Homepage: http://awalls.org


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

@ ?!?!?!?!?!?!

04.03.2008 16:44

I like the way you give a new (old) meaning to anti-German here :) But careful not to resort to nationalist rethoric a la "they left IMC because they are German"!!!

you're right too that the regional IMC are getting stronger - a good thing! Maybe that's the way out of the crisis for indymedia. The national project however is as controversial as never before, and should seriously think about how to rectify its problems...

foreigner


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Typical PC nonsense

04.03.2008 18:20

Now why would the Germans have a problem with anti-semitism? It's political correctness gone mad!

PC PC


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

@ yyy

04.03.2008 18:25

Yes, you're right this does include a criticism of Indymedia Germany's moderation of an article, but it also includes a first hand report of a demonstration in solidarity with people in Gaza who are being threatened with a 'holocaust' by none other than the Israeli deputy Defense Minister.

Why don't you try and avoid projecting your 'german political identity' onto us, it's fascinating stuff but frankly it's disturbing.

And spreading rumours that imc-uk is 'collapsing' hardly helps, do you want it to collapse or something, is this something *you* predicted?

conflicting interests?


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

@ conflicting interest

04.03.2008 18:33

You continue to judge my political convictions according to my nationality.

I see that one interest has taken precedence over the other. IMC UK has promoted the criticism of IMC Germany!

You win.

anti-nationalist


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

response

04.03.2008 19:06

Well, what can i say?

Now it's a game, or a competition, that someone has to win or lose?!

In terms of accusations of nationalism, you seem to be a product of your own fucked up national identity. It's something you clearly can't escape.

take a good look at your own political identity


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

everywhere, censorship supports the criminals, that is all

04.03.2008 19:33

. . . . in fact, suppression seems a sort of "opinioninfluencer" SCAM. Try putting "DI INQUESTFARCE " into this IMCs searchengine, or "ciafraud researchreport in todays paper" . . . . weird why those have got blocked too . . . . methinks certain IMCs have gotten infestations of cash-for-censorship little toadies or something. excuse my inglish, but you should wake the F*** up to THAT too!

ja, censorship stinks


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

agreeing with a few doubts about why bits get censorship on UK IMC too . . . .

04.03.2008 19:44

where DO discussions about "THIS SORT OF THING" go ????
who watches the watchers, to where could we get oversight for the overseers . . . . or is this oversight one of those "DONT QUESTION ME" retorts . . . . aaaargh, i sense a "hidden article" moment . . . . aaaa . . . . oh. phew, for a minute there I thought I was going to get a sudden interup

. . . . wonder where that went. a technical glitch again, per . . . . oops. shhh


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Pathetic IMC

04.03.2008 20:15

It is pathetic that Indymedia UK has put this article against another Indymedia in another country on a square, I do not think it is the job of IMC UK to tell others IMC how to operate.

juny


Crying out loud!

05.03.2008 01:57

Doesn't anyone else think the Germans in particular are on very thin ice mouthing off about this issue?

Amazed


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