hear

“They cling to the sad delusion that Labour is somehow redeemable”

Yeah loads of people obviously still do. That’s because there are tens of millions of people in this country who share the traditional values of the Labour Party (but not NuLabour!).

Abandoning all hope for the Labour Party won’t get rid of the Tories, will it?

Unless those who share the traditional values of the Labour Party join and support the Respect Party en mass, or we have a revolution, the neoliberals win.

If Labour is not redeemable then what are the general public more likely to support, Revolution or Respect?

If John McDonnell had any sincerity he should join Respect and encourage others to do the same.

I remember the days where the true meaning of the Labour party was a socialist, fairer, and anti imperialist Britain. Thats why Britain never participated in wars, never engaged in covert operations to destabilise the middle east, never took advantage of other nations wealth. Those were the days of the Old Labour governments. The days when rainbows appeared on sunny days, and people could rely on santa paying them a visit every xmas morning with the exact gifts they had asked him to bring.

Lets get one thing straight. All british political parties are imperialist. Always have been, always will. The day a British party tries to blend capitalism with anti-imperialism is the day the British Economy will collapse. Britain (like all big capitalist powers) was built on the backs of other nations. Its the way capitalism works.

Stuff them (A)ll

surely only the anarchists have any belief in revolution

the state controlled freaks are such a laugh

when you scum feeel the wrath of the tories youll wish mcdonnell was ain power


but either youre too thick to realsie it or state agents.

either way the tories will rip you to shreds you fucking thick freaks

best wishes

... that "McDonnell has just said... live on Channel 4... that if elected PM he will call for all British troops to be called home immediately, will apologise to the world, and join with the US Democrats to bring the UN in to work with the Iraqi people."

OY-
!! ... breathless suspense ... !!

A quick analysis of his words reveals that only somebody with the political maturity of a 13-year-old could truely be so naive as to pin their hopes on this tired stalinist dinosaur attempting high-wire political acrobatics.

( if anybody wants evidence of this jaded fraudster in action, have a sick-bag handy to watch this recent video of McDull churning through his leftish phrasebook regarding Venezuela - h ttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8407461264243185912 )

McDull's Carisma = 0%
McDull's Sincerity = 0%
McDull's habit for pushing 'radical' buttons = 100%

So, if elected TopCunt on Brit Shitheap, McDull reckons regarding Iraq he will

1. "call for all Brit Gameboyz immediate repatriation" ?
- you can tell this is a goddamned lie, if he wanted to do this, he would not need to wait for his election, which he knows will never happen. Also, he would then be calling upon himself to do it, eh? Sure, but after veeeery careful consideration - ignore his own internal call. Sorted!

2. "apologise to the world" ?
- right, well that's a fucking large help innit ? Who does this cockgargler think he is, the Roamin' Pope or Mel Gibson ?

3. "join with bastard warcriminal US Demoncrats to bring the UN in to work with the Iraqi people" ?
- if this racist imperialist bastard was honest, he'd say 'work on' not 'work with' Iraqis, but it's easy to see what he means anyhow - they are not to be consulted, but continue in their role as subjects of his FUCKING IMPERIALIST FIG-LEAF CHARITY CLUB, the UN !!

For promoting the UN as a fallback means to rescue the USUKreal PNAC project, Judas McDull reveals himself completely - and in my estimation, earns his 10-tonne Nobel Prize, the type which gets trucked straight into the office, a la 'Sergio DeMello'.

And to all you irremediably stupid or consciously gutless and cynical political opportunists who rode this TRAINWRECK with all the depressing 'enthusiasm' you could muster, shilling like dervishes for this disgusting filth - a big Fuck You, Kiddos !

I completely agree with the article. The Trots have been trying to get us to vote Labour for years in some kind of diluded entryism. The silly fuckers still believe in it even after they have sold everything off, took us to war and introduced policies that would make the Tories blush. This just shows how aimless the authoritarian revolutionary left are at the moment. They have no self-analysis and their out-moded doctrine is not robust enough for criticism. They 'Carry on Recruiting' in some vain hope the masses will be led (by them) to revolution.

Having said all of that, I have just read through the comments. Some of these are equally as fucking mad/stupid as the Trots. We are fucked!!!

scepticism is with cause, but to stop the actual criminal idiocy, then alter the structures so that they have sense DOES take working with others, with, perhaps a comprehension of a bit of the situation - ADDITIONS of scepticism too -
- but the sort of scepticism that leads to mutual action.
The short texts thats come out of the "remember each eleventh" campaign types recently is worth a look - the pro-mcconnel comment is less "nieve" when seen with the others - its always worth asking the questions louder to show the way the odd repression-spin works .

Although I agree with alot of what Guido has written in the past on this site, he is way off line on this post.

Whether or not you are in the Labour party, McDonnell's defeat at the first post is a defeat for anyone who is against war, privatisation, shitty housing, neo liberialism etc etc.

If McDonnell had the required nominations he would have had an instant platform (via BBC, newspaper etc) to denounce the blairites and could have put socialism and the idea of standing up to corporations and the fat cats back in the public domain. Just by talking about taxing the rich, standing up for trade unions , asylum seekers, investment in social housing would have gone down very well with the british public at large.

McDonnell would have the media around him like a rash for 4 weeks, speaking left wing politics, how often does this occur?

, It is very rare these days for any discussion about socialism, we are lucky if we hear Tony Benn or Galloway on Question Time but most of the time due to the nature of the media these ideas are completely ignored.

One can image that Gordon Brown would be happy that he did not have his blair mark 2 project be challenged by the left, this in itself is one reason why Guido is wrong on this but there are many others.

If like me you support RESPECT or even STWC then his non advancement is arguably a set back for people like me. If McDonnell had the limelight and gained the support from everyday people from media exposure, he would have no doubt encourage more people into these movements. For instance, McDonnell now speaks at STWC public rallies, he also has shared platforms with RESPECT such as "Fighting Trade Union Meetings".

Last point, if left wing views are not given a voice it does not necessary mean people will look to revolutionaries/ RESPECT for answers, the truth is organisations such as RESPECT or SWP are far too small at the moment, the winners are more likely to be the Nazi's BNP.

Wtf are you going on about. How can anyone who is against war, privatisation etc etc ever EVER allow his moral conscience to keep him in the labour party. From 1997 till today labour has fully supported 3 wars and is already stirring up things in Iran. Its not even worth posting on the matter. All you labour backing so called left wing parties are one of the reasons revolutionary education has failed all over the western world. Pathetic.

Are the AWL, supporters of the John McDonnell campaign and appologists for the Imperial Genocide in the Middle East:  https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/05/370988.html?c=on#c174156

Reply to key points by Redletter:

"Whether or not you are in the Labour party, McDonnell's defeat at the first post is a defeat for anyone who is against war, privatisation, shitty housing, neo liberialism etc etc."

No, its hopefully a wake up call for anyone who thinks that the Labour Party is an outfit that contains any democracy or is worth giving the time of day to

"If McDonnell had the required nominations he would have had an instant platform (via BBC, newspaper etc) to denounce the blairites..... McDonnell would have the media around him like a rash for 4 weeks, speaking left wing politics, how often does this occur?"

All this would have achieved is McDonnell being soundly defeated by the NeoLabour spin machine and giving a false impression to Labour lefties that something in the party was worth fighting for. Now they have an opportunity to reconsider their wasted time and energy.

"It is very rare these days for any discussion about socialism, we are lucky if we hear Tony Benn or Galloway on Question Time but most of the time due to the nature of the media these ideas are completely ignored."

Correct, its hardly in the interests of the Rupert Murdochs of this world to give a platform to those who would take away their billions. A massive defeat for McDonnell would have just given the bosses an excuse to blow their 'no alternative to the free market' trumpet.

"One can image that Gordon Brown would be happy that he did not have his blair mark 2 project be challenged by the left"

Actually I think a huge defeat for McDonnell would have just made his position stronger. People are far more likely to be suspicious of him now that his leadership is a done deal.

"If McDonnell had the limelight and gained the support from everyday people from media exposure, he would have no doubt encourage more people into these movements."

Or just kept them in the capitalist Labour Party, thus neutralising any real threat they might pose to the bosses. See my point above.

"the truth is organisations such as RESPECT or SWP are far too small at the moment, the winners are more likely to be the Nazi's BNP."

Nowhere in my original post did I say that RESPECT or SWP were the answer. The fact that RESPECT have fucked up New Labour's plans to privatise the council housing in Tower Hamlets is a small victory but my emphasis was on direct action and community resistance. The BNP would be squashed like a bug if they ever posed a real threat to Tory votes which is their natural constituency. Right now they are just a convenient stick to beat Labour with and keep activists occupied who might be busy elsewhere.....

The Labour Party has been flying to the right for decades. It is now little more than a nauseating tool of control to keep deluded individuals from doing anything real. The sooner its members and others realise that the better.

Guido in response to what I said

If McDonnell had the required nominations he would have had an instant platform (via BBC, newspaper etc) to denounce the blairites..... McDonnell would have the media around him like a rash for 4 weeks, speaking left wing politics, how often does this occur?

you said

"All this would have achieved is McDonnell being soundly defeated by the NeoLabour spin machine and giving a false impression to Labour lefties that something in the party was worth fighting for. Now they have an opportunity to reconsider their wasted time and energy... Actually I think a huge defeat for McDonnell would have just made his position stronger. People are far more likely to be suspicious of him now that his leadership is a done deal."



These are false assumptions, firstly you imply that McDonnel would be "soundly defeated" but although it is true that he does not have the support from the vast majority of Labour MPs it is highly likely that he would gain significant support from trade union members (those political afflicated) and everyday Labour members which combined make up two third of the overall vote. I would not speculate that he would win the constest but his vote would be very respectable indeed.

Secondly, you underestimate the general feeling against " the free market' trumpet", what is remarkable is despite the fact that there is hardly a word uttered via the mainstream press against the free market there continues to be a huge dislike of " market forces", McDonnell's success would have articulative the groundswell support against such forces and hopely would have given people the confidence to fight back free market policies.

You also said-


" The BNP would be squashed like a bug if they ever posed a real threat to Tory votes which is their natural constituency. Right now they are just a convenient stick to beat Labour with and keep activists occupied who might be busy elsewhere....."

I sorry but you are wrong on this one too, the BNP are not a threat to Tory voters, if you have a look where the BNP are strong, e.g Dagneham, Bradford, ect they were once typically strong labour areas as appose to Tory. Also please tell me what instrument would a labour/Tory government use to "squash the BNP like a bug", the police? army? I don't think so.

The way to beat the BNP is to provide a real alternative, I'm sorry that you do not see RESPECT as an alternative but given it is the only force at the moment with limited profile what else do you propose?

John McDonnell tried to do what some on the left say George Galloway should have done, i.e. stay in the party, and try and change its direction from within.

McDonnell’s failure to get enough support clearly illustrates that Galloway did the right thing by breaking with the Labour party and helping to build Respect as an alternative.

Personally, I was unsure until now whether it would be better to try and rescue Labour or help build an alternative (because building an alternative could take far longer to achieve), but I have to confess that I’m no longer unsure and realise that building an alternative is imperative if we are to even challenge neoliberalism, let alone defeat it.

The Labour Party is dead, long live Respect.

John McDonnell had the opportunity to publicly condemn Blair. But he didn’t. He bit his lip (and he still is toeing the line...).

George Galloway chose not to bite his lip. He rightly and properly publicly condemned Blair for being the war criminal he is.