From 9/11 to WW3
John J. Albanese | 17.07.2006 13:11 | Anti-militarism | Globalisation | Sheffield
Let there be no doubt that the current military crisis in the Middle East could potentially take this world to the very brink of a global crisis.
But, as 9/11 activists, we must ask ourselves whether there is any relevance to this conflict, which to many Americans seems so very far away, and our own history of violence here at home on 9/11.
The answer is clear. 9/11 was an act of evil perpetrated by evil people whom threaten the stability of the entire world. 9/11 was a modern day Pearl Harbor that ushered the western world into a new age of global conflict that just now is playing out in a regional war that portends an ever-widening global conflict and dangerous clash of civilizations.
The stakes could not possibly be higher.
9/11 remains iconic in this sense. The world trade center still towers over all of us at the cross-roads of history.
It is easy to see how we have gotten here – from there. The trauma of 9/11 was so skillfully converted into a system of fear and oppression, where facts became secondary to human emotions - hate and fear - and American foreign policy descended into hubris. The “Axis of Evil” was declared. Anthrax attacks bludgeoning our legislature into submission, and yielding the Patriot Act. Myriad police-state tactics initiated here and abroad. Human rights and human dignity traded in for renditions and torture. The media capitulating and complicit in a war of aggression against Iraq, with fictions layered upon fictions that they tacitly or overtly supported and spread. Nuclear ambitions and missile tests in the Sea of Japan. The radicalization of Iran. The end to diplomacy. The war on academia, the United Nations and the judiciary branch of government. Xenophobia at home. Civil liberties evaporating. Dry wood thrown on the flames of paranoia.
And now this. Israel at war.
The current conflict in the Middle East has everything to do with 9/11. It is the product of fear and paranoia that is, to a certain extent, the self fulfilling prophesy of those members of the Project for the New American Century who conceived of a “new Pearl Harbor,” laying bare their naked ambitions and preconceived notions that there could be a ‘benefit’ from an inconceivable act of violence on American soil. To these people human lives mean nothing. Their ambitions are as transparent as their policies.
As 9/11 activists these truths are self-evident.
In this atmosphere of uncertainty 9/11 activism becomes more relevant than ever before. The stakes could not possibly be higher. It is now not just simply a matter of revealing the truth behind 9/11, we are now confronted with our own mortality and the lives of millions of world citizens at the mercy of a policy gone tragically wrong. As 9/11 activists we are essentially the antidote for violence. We denounce those responsible for 9/11 as vigorously as we oppose those who would seek to push millions of lives over the edge, into the chasm of all-out-war in the Middle East.
Where will it end? What would victory look like? Can anyone truly win a global world war in this day and age? Could the euphemism of WMDs, so oft used and misused as a justification for war, suddenly become a painful reality – another self fulfilling prophesy? Could we be confronted with the prospects of a tragedy of global proportions? Could we see a cathartic release of energy, in the form of violence, that will engulf ALL TRUTHS and conventional wisdom in the cauldron of all-out-war?
9/11 activism has been, and will always remain, a non-violent movement for peace. 9/11 Truth has always been a call for level-headed self examination and accountability. We cannot add to the flames of anger. We will only serve to feed the beast.
But, all could be lost if we do not act soon.
I call upon all of you to unite, and put down your theories and debates – and organize.
ORGANIZE!
We need action. And fast. We need one millions citizens in the streets of Washington DC, banging on pots and pans, and refusing to leave.
We need to chain ourselves to the gates of power.
We need to force alternate viewpoints on the media, peacefully by FORCE.
We need to reclaim our place as citizens, at the seats of power, and refuse to budge.
We need civil disobedience and loud angry voices that will be as dedicated to this cause as the patriots who landed on the beaches of Normandy – taking our own beachhead in the streets of Washington.
We need to shut down the media – peacefully but forcefully - starting in Rockefeller Center at NBC headquarters – and the New York Times building – by laying down in front of their trucks and occupying their plazas and lobbies - declaring our intentions to reject this trail of tears and lies - that started on 9/11 - and leads us all to the battlegrounds of World War 3.
If not now – when?
---------
John J. Albanese is the producer of the film “Everybody’s Gotta Learn Sometime”
http://www.crisisinamerica.org/ which was screened on the first day of Sheffield Indymedia's ongoing "Summer of Truth" film festival:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2006/05/341703.html
The answer is clear. 9/11 was an act of evil perpetrated by evil people whom threaten the stability of the entire world. 9/11 was a modern day Pearl Harbor that ushered the western world into a new age of global conflict that just now is playing out in a regional war that portends an ever-widening global conflict and dangerous clash of civilizations.
The stakes could not possibly be higher.
9/11 remains iconic in this sense. The world trade center still towers over all of us at the cross-roads of history.
It is easy to see how we have gotten here – from there. The trauma of 9/11 was so skillfully converted into a system of fear and oppression, where facts became secondary to human emotions - hate and fear - and American foreign policy descended into hubris. The “Axis of Evil” was declared. Anthrax attacks bludgeoning our legislature into submission, and yielding the Patriot Act. Myriad police-state tactics initiated here and abroad. Human rights and human dignity traded in for renditions and torture. The media capitulating and complicit in a war of aggression against Iraq, with fictions layered upon fictions that they tacitly or overtly supported and spread. Nuclear ambitions and missile tests in the Sea of Japan. The radicalization of Iran. The end to diplomacy. The war on academia, the United Nations and the judiciary branch of government. Xenophobia at home. Civil liberties evaporating. Dry wood thrown on the flames of paranoia.
And now this. Israel at war.
The current conflict in the Middle East has everything to do with 9/11. It is the product of fear and paranoia that is, to a certain extent, the self fulfilling prophesy of those members of the Project for the New American Century who conceived of a “new Pearl Harbor,” laying bare their naked ambitions and preconceived notions that there could be a ‘benefit’ from an inconceivable act of violence on American soil. To these people human lives mean nothing. Their ambitions are as transparent as their policies.
As 9/11 activists these truths are self-evident.
In this atmosphere of uncertainty 9/11 activism becomes more relevant than ever before. The stakes could not possibly be higher. It is now not just simply a matter of revealing the truth behind 9/11, we are now confronted with our own mortality and the lives of millions of world citizens at the mercy of a policy gone tragically wrong. As 9/11 activists we are essentially the antidote for violence. We denounce those responsible for 9/11 as vigorously as we oppose those who would seek to push millions of lives over the edge, into the chasm of all-out-war in the Middle East.
Where will it end? What would victory look like? Can anyone truly win a global world war in this day and age? Could the euphemism of WMDs, so oft used and misused as a justification for war, suddenly become a painful reality – another self fulfilling prophesy? Could we be confronted with the prospects of a tragedy of global proportions? Could we see a cathartic release of energy, in the form of violence, that will engulf ALL TRUTHS and conventional wisdom in the cauldron of all-out-war?
9/11 activism has been, and will always remain, a non-violent movement for peace. 9/11 Truth has always been a call for level-headed self examination and accountability. We cannot add to the flames of anger. We will only serve to feed the beast.
But, all could be lost if we do not act soon.
I call upon all of you to unite, and put down your theories and debates – and organize.
ORGANIZE!
We need action. And fast. We need one millions citizens in the streets of Washington DC, banging on pots and pans, and refusing to leave.
We need to chain ourselves to the gates of power.
We need to force alternate viewpoints on the media, peacefully by FORCE.
We need to reclaim our place as citizens, at the seats of power, and refuse to budge.
We need civil disobedience and loud angry voices that will be as dedicated to this cause as the patriots who landed on the beaches of Normandy – taking our own beachhead in the streets of Washington.
We need to shut down the media – peacefully but forcefully - starting in Rockefeller Center at NBC headquarters – and the New York Times building – by laying down in front of their trucks and occupying their plazas and lobbies - declaring our intentions to reject this trail of tears and lies - that started on 9/11 - and leads us all to the battlegrounds of World War 3.
If not now – when?
---------
John J. Albanese is the producer of the film “Everybody’s Gotta Learn Sometime”
http://www.crisisinamerica.org/ which was screened on the first day of Sheffield Indymedia's ongoing "Summer of Truth" film festival: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/sheffield/2006/05/341703.html
John J. Albanese
Homepage:
http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?p=64587
Additions
Israeli Bombings could lead to Escalation of Middle East War
17.07.2006 14:16
July 15, 2006
Following the bombings of Beirut by Israel, there is a danger that the US sponsored Middle East war, which is at present characterized by three distinct war theaters (Afghanistan, Palestine and Iraq) will escalate and extend to the entire Middle East - Central Asian region.
The bombings of Lebanon are part of a carefully planned military agenda. They are not spontaneous acts of reprisal by Israel. They are acts of provocation.
The attacks could indeed be used as a pretext to trigger a much broader military operation, which is already in the active planning stage. In all likelihood, the bombings were conducted with Washington's approval.
The timing of these bombings coincides with the showdown with Iran regarding its alleged nuclear weapons' program. They should be viewed and analyzed in relation to US-Israeli geopolitical and strategic interests in the broader region.
The Beirut bombings should also be understood in relation to the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon, which has opened up a new space, for the deployment of Israeli forces.
Since 2004, the US, Israel and Turkey have formulated concrete war plans involving air raids on Iran's nuclear sites. Israel is slated to play a direct role in the US sponsored military operation against Iran, which is also the object of consultations at the G8 meeting in St. Petersburg on July 15-17.
Since late 2004, Israel has been stockpiling US made weapons systems in anticipation of an attack on Iran. This stockpiling, which is financed by US military aid was largely completed in June 2005. Israel has taken delivery from the US of several thousand "smart air launched weapons" including some 500 'bunker-buster' bombs, which can also be used to deliver tactical nuclear bombs. US tactical nuclear weapons have been deployed by the US and several of its allies and could be used against Iran. Israel's thermonnuclear missiles are pointed at Tehran.
The participation of Turkey in the US-Israeli military operation is also a factor, following a 2004 agreement reached between Ankara and Tel Aviv.
Extension of the War
Tehran has confirmed that it will retaliate if attacked, in the form of ballistic missile strikes directed against Israel . These attacks, could also target US military facilities in Iraq and the Persian Gulf, which would immediately lead us into a scenario of military escalation and all out war.
G8
On the agenda of the G8 is a draft UN Security Council resolution pertaining to Iran's alleged (nonexistent) nuclear weapons program, which, according to news reports, has been tacitly approved by Russia and China This resolution, if adopted, could open the way for punitive bombings on Iran, with the full support of America's European allies.
Israel is now part of the Anglo-American military coalition If these bombing raids were to be carried out, with the active participation of Israel, both Lebanon and Syria would become part of an extensive war zone.
The entire region would flare up
It is therefore essential that citizens' movements around the world act consistently to confront their respective governments and reverse and dismantle this military agenda which threatens the future of humanity.
-------------------------------------------
Iranian president says Israeli attack on Syria to meet "strong response"
Text of report by Iranian radio on 14 July
In a telephone conversation last night, the Iranian and Syrian presidents condemned the Zionist regime's attacks on Lebanon and Gaza. They called on the Islamic nations to show their support for the Palestinian and Lebanese people.
Mr [Mahmud] Ahmadinezhad expressed grave concerns over the Zionist military's attacks on Palestinian and Lebanese civilians. He described the aggressions as the sign of weakness on the part the illegitimate regime. He said despite what the Zionist officials may think, such actions cannot save the regime.
Commenting on the recent Israeli threats against Syria, the president said that the regime's ever increasing aggressive measures would be interpreted as an attack on the whole of the Islamic world, adding that it would meet with a strong response.
For his turn, the Syrian President Bashar al-Asad, said that by attacking Gaza, the Zionist regime had broken the one-year long ceasefire, and had created a new crisis. He added that the courageous, timely and decisive response by the Hezbollah had surprised and angered the leaders of the regime. Pointing out that many popular groups from various Islamic countries had expressed their willingness to fight the occupiers in the troubled areas, Mr Asad said that Israel would face a fierce response should it decide to commit another mistake and attack Syria. He added that Syria was not afraid of any threats.
Source: Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Tehran, in Persian 0430 gmt 14 Jul 06
-------------------------------------------
Following the bombings of Beirut by Israel, there is a danger that the US sponsored Middle East war, which is at present characterized by three distinct war theaters (Afghanistan, Palestine and Iraq) will escalate and extend to the entire Middle East - Central Asian region.
The bombings of Lebanon are part of a carefully planned military agenda. They are not spontaneous acts of reprisal by Israel. They are acts of provocation.
The attacks could indeed be used as a pretext to trigger a much broader military operation, which is already in the active planning stage. In all likelihood, the bombings were conducted with Washington's approval.
The timing of these bombings coincides with the showdown with Iran regarding its alleged nuclear weapons' program. They should be viewed and analyzed in relation to US-Israeli geopolitical and strategic interests in the broader region.
The Beirut bombings should also be understood in relation to the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon, which has opened up a new space, for the deployment of Israeli forces.
Since 2004, the US, Israel and Turkey have formulated concrete war plans involving air raids on Iran's nuclear sites. Israel is slated to play a direct role in the US sponsored military operation against Iran, which is also the object of consultations at the G8 meeting in St. Petersburg on July 15-17.
Since late 2004, Israel has been stockpiling US made weapons systems in anticipation of an attack on Iran. This stockpiling, which is financed by US military aid was largely completed in June 2005. Israel has taken delivery from the US of several thousand "smart air launched weapons" including some 500 'bunker-buster' bombs, which can also be used to deliver tactical nuclear bombs. US tactical nuclear weapons have been deployed by the US and several of its allies and could be used against Iran. Israel's thermonnuclear missiles are pointed at Tehran.
The participation of Turkey in the US-Israeli military operation is also a factor, following a 2004 agreement reached between Ankara and Tel Aviv.
Extension of the War
Tehran has confirmed that it will retaliate if attacked, in the form of ballistic missile strikes directed against Israel . These attacks, could also target US military facilities in Iraq and the Persian Gulf, which would immediately lead us into a scenario of military escalation and all out war.
G8
On the agenda of the G8 is a draft UN Security Council resolution pertaining to Iran's alleged (nonexistent) nuclear weapons program, which, according to news reports, has been tacitly approved by Russia and China This resolution, if adopted, could open the way for punitive bombings on Iran, with the full support of America's European allies.
Israel is now part of the Anglo-American military coalition If these bombing raids were to be carried out, with the active participation of Israel, both Lebanon and Syria would become part of an extensive war zone.
The entire region would flare up
It is therefore essential that citizens' movements around the world act consistently to confront their respective governments and reverse and dismantle this military agenda which threatens the future of humanity.
-------------------------------------------
Iranian president says Israeli attack on Syria to meet "strong response"
Text of report by Iranian radio on 14 July
In a telephone conversation last night, the Iranian and Syrian presidents condemned the Zionist regime's attacks on Lebanon and Gaza. They called on the Islamic nations to show their support for the Palestinian and Lebanese people.
Mr [Mahmud] Ahmadinezhad expressed grave concerns over the Zionist military's attacks on Palestinian and Lebanese civilians. He described the aggressions as the sign of weakness on the part the illegitimate regime. He said despite what the Zionist officials may think, such actions cannot save the regime.
Commenting on the recent Israeli threats against Syria, the president said that the regime's ever increasing aggressive measures would be interpreted as an attack on the whole of the Islamic world, adding that it would meet with a strong response.
For his turn, the Syrian President Bashar al-Asad, said that by attacking Gaza, the Zionist regime had broken the one-year long ceasefire, and had created a new crisis. He added that the courageous, timely and decisive response by the Hezbollah had surprised and angered the leaders of the regime. Pointing out that many popular groups from various Islamic countries had expressed their willingness to fight the occupiers in the troubled areas, Mr Asad said that Israel would face a fierce response should it decide to commit another mistake and attack Syria. He added that Syria was not afraid of any threats.
Source: Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Tehran, in Persian 0430 gmt 14 Jul 06
-------------------------------------------
Michel Chossudovsky
Homepage:
http://globalresearch.ca/
Comments
Hide the following 17 comments
Lock-on request or what
17.07.2006 14:10
>If not now – when?
Unfortunately none of the 911 'activists' know how to do a lock-on because you have dismissed real activism as unimportant. So you bleat impotently instead and fill up newswires with posts like this. And what news has this poster thought worth spreading across the atlantic ? "Israel at war." No shit sherlock, with insights like that you'll soon bring Bush down.
ActivistsMyarse
What activism
17.07.2006 16:59
S Hinds
kisses
17.07.2006 18:48
I have no problem with you investigating 911. I just oppose you over-writing activist news here with silly suppositions and opinion. Its not even journalism let alone activism. Why not post on a 911 site if that's what floats your boat ?
>ActivistmyArse is doing what exactly about Bush-Blair crimes? If you can tell us, perhaps we can join in.
You are not invited to join me I'm afraid, I work better with non-idiots. If you want a clue as to how I personally oppose our leaders crimes, have a look around at the non-911-posts on Indymedia. It's called activism. It means doing stufff instead of talking about how other people should be doing stuff.
ActivistMyArse
just stay at home please mate
18.07.2006 08:34
are you an idiot?
or just insanely self centered?
either way, the divid and conquer mentality exposed, when aligned with such arrogance will produce apathy in those around you - they just do not want to be around you being 'active'
i wonder what exactly you are 'active about' - i've certainly never seen your moniker attatched to any call to demos, analysis of tactics or reports of completed 'activity'
perhaps you are just a twat
thinkermybrain
the admission inside the accusation
18.07.2006 19:18
perhaps you are just a twat"
Someone challenges the 911 'activists' to link to a single event or action that they've done, and they can't. You've maybe not seen their name attached to any actions but you should have seen mine, being such great 'investigators' and all. You claim ActivistMyArse is perhaps a twat for failing to link to any action ? Perhaps. You certainly are an inactive twat though, since you couldn't provide a single link the way anyone else here could . You are accusing ActivistMyArse of a crime you admit to, the crime of being a non-activist, the crime of being a hypocrite, the crime of being an interloper who talks the talk but never walks the walk. Perhaps that is true of ActivistMyArse, but it is certainly true of you.
So how come you post on an activist website if you aren't an activist ? How come you block the newswire with your Ickesian Revelations ? It certainly disrupts this place, I guess that is reason enough for you.
Danny
danny
19.07.2006 11:37
... so what is with the "Ickesian Revelations" ... straw man?
Would you not agree that in order to be active SUCCESSFULLY, some degree of planning - hence THINKING is necessary?
'activistmyarse' is typical of the type of comment appearing hear all to often ... nothing but sour grapes and insults to those trying.
[he] could of course offer analysis, help, insight, links to actions ... but no.
instead [he] offers apathy and incredable arrogance
if this is the limits to [his] acivist imagination ... well ... a better person might have encouraged, directed, but no ...
still want to know from what lofty position [he] judges ... or does [he] imagine [he] can make a better world on his own
sounds to me just like another apathy attack, you know 'stay at home, do not look out of the window, believe your newspapers, let us take careof the problems'
if, as the poster claims, the original piece lacked maturity, is the way to teach children to humiliate them?
or is this a tactic to close somebody down emotionally?
... is activistmyarse you danny?
perhaps then it is the macho in politics ... 'I'm more active than you, therefore I have more kudos' ... 'yes? what were you active about?' ... 'how dare you question me lesser activist' ...
... we don't need anymore macho jocks in politics, they are part of the problem don't you know?
"So how come you post on an activist website if you aren't an activist ? How come you block the newswire with your Ickesian Revelations ? It certainly disrupts this place, I guess that is reason enough for you."
wildly speculating beyond the data - a crime decried by those you defend .. who is the hypocrite now?
I certainly am and hold my hand up - it is a human trait after all - like being wrong.
Will you punish me?
an unashamed thinker
False prophets
19.07.2006 14:44
Straw men are those who serve the state with their intelligence, not their consience so that seems to be projection on your part.
"Ickesian Revelations" refers to the tendency of 911ers to make false prophecies and expect to be taken seriously afterwards.
For example the Acheson Intelligence Group repost above "UK PREPARES TO ATTACK SYRIA & IRAN" is already prven to be nonsense. This in turn discredits the newswire and if the UK was about to launch an attack and a credible group posted that here, they may be ignored because of association with 'conspracy-nuts' like Acheson.
"Would you not agree that in order to be active SUCCESSFULLY, some degree of planning - hence THINKING is necessary? "
All the actions on this website are thought through and informed but irrelevant chatter is simple prevarication.
"a better person might have encouraged, directed, but no ... "
It doesn't seem wise to encourage or direct people in their folly, especially on an anarchist website and especially since I think your issue is fundamentally irrelevant. However since you ask here is the criticism reworded as encouragement and direction. First rule of activism, organise. It's the same wee bunch of people here posting often contradictory speculation on 911 and you never add to an existing 911 thread, you always post seperate articles. How about exchanging emails and discussing things amongst yourselves, meeting face to face and releasing joint updates ? While we are on the subject of the newswire, don't have more than two stories on the same subject (ie 911) on the visible IM newswire at any given point in time or it just drowns out other issues and leads to everybody hating you, that only happens for important updates from actions. Some of you actively show disdain for the very concept of activism here which is awfully disrespectful and wins you no friends. Some of you link to any site that backs up your argument without checking out the rest of the site, including neo-nazi sites like Rense. Don't think to Nazi sites and be aware that cults use 911 to recruit so be aware. Try not to post any articles that aren't about actions or events, post your opinions and speculation on forums such as U75 to get them out of your system. Try and write in more objective language - read up on EPrime (
Secondly, act. Do something physical. You don't stop thinking when you act, but thought without action is the equivalent of brain-stem injury. If what you tried fails then think it over in and try again. Whether you are assasinating Blair, breaking into the airlines PCs or simply counter-surveilling you local CIA agent then remember to post proof here once you have. It seems silly to call for others to act over 911 when you yourselves don't.
Yet my mind was not at rest, because nothing was acted, and my thoughts ran in me that words and writing were all nothing and must die, for action is the life of all and if thou dost not act, thou dost nothing.
Gerrard Winstanley, A Watchword to the City of London, 1649
The mass of men serve the state thus, not as men mainly, but as machines, with their bodies. They are the standing army, and the militia, jailers, constables, posse comitatus, etc. In most cases there is no free exercise whatever of the judgment or of the moral sense; but they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones; and wooden men can perhaps be manufactured that will serve the purpose as well. Such command no more respect than men of straw or a lump of dirt. They have the same sort of worth only as horses and dogs. Yet such as these even are commonly esteemed good citizens. Others, as most legislators, politicians, lawyers, ministers, and office-holders, serve the state chiefly with their heads; and, as they rarely make any moral distinctions, they are as likely to serve the devil, without intending it, as God. A very few, as heroes, patriots, martyrs, reformers in the great sense, and men, serve the state with their consciences also, and so necessarily resist it for the most part; and they are commonly treated as enemies by it. A wise man will only be useful as a man, and will not submit to be "clay," and "stop a hole to keep the wind away," but leave that office to his dust at least:—
"I am too high-born to be propertied,
To be a secondary at control,
Or useful serving-man and instrument
To any sovereign state throughout the world."
Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience, 1849
Danny
Counterposing action to discussion
20.07.2006 08:19
"the Acheson Intelligence Group repost above "UK PREPARES TO ATTACK SYRIA & IRAN" is already prven to be nonsense"
What has it to do with the article above? It took me a while to find that it's another post on the UK newswire here:
If you think that this article shouldn't be on the site then why don't you write to the site admins on the imc-uk-features list and ask for it to be removed? Or if that is too much to ask please at least post your comments about it after it raher than to a unrelated article like this one.
As for the "First rule of activism, organise." stuff, well thinking has to come first and it is not the case that people interested in 9/11 are not activists, I have not met many "9/11 truth activists", perhaps only two or three but they all seem to do stuff. One who lives in Sheffield has been active in the anti-war movement for years. At the last Menwith Hill protest dh was there with a display and DVDs and engaging lots of people in discussion:
But did you even notice that this post is on the Sheffield site -- it's been written by the producers of on of the films that Sheffield Indymedia screened the other week, it's a repost, it wasn't written specifically for UK Indymedia readers but it raises some interesting points and suggestions (better suggestions for actions than you raise).
The 9/11 stuff is being discussed in Sheffield at the moment due in part to the films that Sheffield Indymedia is screening, this perhaps will lead to some kind of protest -- the screenings are being attended by activists from across the left spectrum.
Counterposing action to discussion make no sense, both are clearly needed.
Chris
IM as a talk-shop
20.07.2006 11:53
I'll keep this simple so even simple minds can understand. That obviously false prediction Acheson prediction is simply typical of the declining level of IM posts nowadays and was simply the first 'Ickesian Revelation' I could find, although they are ubiquitous nowadays. Endless false predictions and dodgy speculation leads to the whole of IM being written off by rational activists as a conspiracy-loon site that doesn't even attempt to maintain any level of journalistic standards. Articles like this - and the association of Sheffield IM - simply encourage it and so are related. This isn't a discussion board, it's meant to be a newswire. Point to one fact or piece of news in the original article ? Oh yeah, Israel is at war. Please.
>As for the "First rule of activism, organise." stuff, well thinking has to come first and it is not the case that people interested in 9/11 are not activists, I have not met many "9/11 truth activists", perhaps only two or three but they all seem to do stuff. One who lives in Sheffield has been active in the anti-war movement for years.
Apart from DH posting about the meeting here can you point to one other 911 post that points to any activism at all ?
>At the last Menwith Hill protest dh was there with a display and DVDs and engaging lots of people in discussion:
No it's not ! Blocking a gate at Menwith Hill is activity, handing out leaflets is simply publicity though I do differentiate between those who at least attempt basic stuff like that rather than those who simply repost from conspiracyloon sites.
>But did you even notice that this post is on the Sheffield site -- it's been written by the producers of on of the films that Sheffield Indymedia screened the other week, it's a repost, it wasn't written specifically for UK Indymedia readers but it raises some interesting points and suggestions (better suggestions for actions than you raise).
For a start those weren't my suggested actions for the 911ers, they were simply examples meant to be illustrative of the various 911ers posts. But does the origibal post really contain better suggestions ? Can you please quote one to prove your point ? How about "We need to chain ourselves to the gates of power. " Oh goody. Where exactly are 'The Gates of Power' ? Next to the the Castle of Doom ? Arsehole.
>The 9/11 stuff is being discussed in Sheffield at the moment due in part to the films that Sheffield Indymedia is screening, this perhaps will lead to some kind of protest -- the screenings are being attended by activists from across the left spectrum.
"perhaps will lead to some kind of protest " - hahahaha. What a wanker. Your taxes are killing thousands every week in Iraq and you think it is acceptable to sit around discussig some possible future action over some possible and unproven previous crime? Pathetic.
"Counterposing action to discussion make no sense, both are clearly needed."
No, you are prevaricating. The time for talking is over, you have a clear duty to act against your governement, the oil companies and the weapons manufacturers now and youir attempts to turn this into a talking shop of possible actions over possible crimes in the distant past mean you are just faking it. This is either an activist newswire, in which case you shouldn't be here, or it is just another conspiracy discussion site, in which case I'll get my coat.
Danny
Chris
20.07.2006 12:08
I've watched Loose Change 2 and it's total fiction based on conspiracy nonsense culled from dodgy Internet sites. The inconsistent Fetzer makes the bag of badgers look like the yardstick for academic quality and Steve Jones is the best laugh since Comical Ali- I mean to say, the Towers were brought down using an amateur incediary compound that'd be easier to detect than a big sign saying "This is an inside job!!!"; that X amount of personnel got tonnes of the stuff into the towers with no-one spotting anything suspicious; that they somehow managed to get it to work synchronously. They did their deed and no-one at the crime scene smelt a rat despite being professional investigators... do the stakes of keeping a lid on such a scenario have a figure we can express in non-floating point maths?
All total and utter logistical fantasy and relies on narrow slection of "evidence" and "testimony"... quoting people out of context or where no clear line of questioning is indicated is not evidence. Looking at jpgs with little detail and no timestamp is not evidence. Motive and opportunity are not evidence. Twisting lexis and semantics to suit the theory. Joining the dots with bullshit suppostion is not evidence.
Evidence is the positive identification of deeds and culprits through forensic techniques, corroborated witness statements/confessions; documenray audit trails; expert witness testimony.
For example:
Agent X was spotted doing Y at location Z. Expert witness A confirms that coumpoun B found on Agent X is the same as found at location Z and consistent with action Y.
9/11 and 7/7 Truth has none of that, all it has is a load of flimsy supposition- see "Blahblah THINKS based on some jpegs and AVIs that a faceless cabal commited supposed deed"- that falls apart easier than a cheap spanner from B&Q.
That isn't a case. What would you say if you were banged up on the basis of that kind of tosh? Or merely even defamed by it?
This stuff is amateur. It is obviously a cynical cottage industry for radio show presenters, insignification college bods and unemployable ex-spooks to fleece the gullible.
Please stop ruining this site by encouraging it.
P.S. I'm not a spook or facist, I don't like Bush or Blair... in fact, being an anarchist I believe government is something to be generally avoided and discouraged.
P.P.S No doubt this comment will be deemed subversive... sorry "disruptive" and hidden.
Inactivist
Do what though wilt. Shall be the whole of the Law
21.07.2006 21:18
"This stuff is pure garbage."
If you mean that posting or pasting other peoples world views because they happen to be in line with your own then yes you have a point. It's better to read the articles and then give an analysis with URL's for reference, rather than posting full original articles - especially any that contain speculation. that's not news.
" Anyone who thinks that PNAC/CIA/MOSSAD carried ...."
As much (if not more of) "a badger in a bag" is he who thinks 19 people with box cutters led by someone on dialysis in a mountain cave in Afghanistan managed to fool:-
FBI,CIA,DOD,MOSSAD,NSA,USSS,DIA,FAA,NORAD,ISI,MI6,USAAF etc. etc.
If you criticise the CT story you have to spend as much energy (more IMO) attacking the US Government's version of events which is after all a conspiracy theory.
" needed thousands of participants in an act of mass murder ....."
Well what have these folks done before?
How about the Holocaust.
That involved millions (just ordinary humans )following orders.
Seems to me you have no idea about hierarchical power structures or human psychology as in the "Ours is not to question why..." and "We were only following orders." and "It's all very hush hush" and "Sir! YES SIR!" and "We're all very frightened please protect us" and not forgetting the "jobs worth" mentalities spun by these power loons.
" A couple were driving through Europe using their GPS system to navigate. They came to a river , the GPS told them to keep driving, so they did. The GPS didn't tell them that there was a ferry and they had to wait for it".
" An experiment in the 1960's had a man in a white coat ordering a subject to inflict greater and greater levels of punishment (through electric shock) to a victim if they made an error in a test they were performing. Most of the participants continued to apply more and more punishment despite the screams of protest of the hapless victim, because the "white coat" of authority told them to do it"
How would you prevent the whistle-blowers blowing?
Fist and easiest you buy their silence with cash and blackmail and entrapment,
second you threaten their career - credit rating -insurance rating ,
third fear of character assassination , fourth actual character assassination, fifth fear of assassination, sixth actual assassination
seventh, you put all the operatives on the planes and in the buildings that are going to be hit and tell em they're going to Paradise , sorry Vegas, as a reward for all their hard work, or they're ordered to a meeting in one of the towers for an evaluation of the top secret operation to expose failures in security at the WTC in the face of the terrorist threat.... and then the plane hits.
etc. etc.
I'm not saying that this is what happened as there is as you say "No evidence" at least not much. The point is, it is eminently possible for a relatively small hierarchical group to plan and carry out such false flag operations. And cover their tracks.
The only problem they have in this case is that they can't cover up a Law of Physics.
The most rational 911Truthers merely call for a proper investigation. Others call for a 2nd Armed American Revolution.
"I've watched Loose Change 2.."
Well this has already been discussed at great length here.
and here
Been on Holiday?
So what's Indymedia for? seems to be a question that people are asking.
Here's my view for what it's worth.
There is a category "Analysis" .. on here
So what's happened here is that I have and others have analysed the 911Truth movement and it looks as if you are analysing 911Truth as-well.
I agree about, Fetzer he's running the Scholars for Truth site and it's a mess. and he's fallen out with Hoffman, but did a good job on Fox News.
Steven Jones is funny especially seeing him cringing when he rubs up with the likes of Alex Jones' individualist libertarian nazi bohemian grove outrage bull horn terrorstorm outbursts.
Steven Jones' contribution is that he and Hoffman highlighted the Laws of Physics that make the use of explosives the only way to get enough energy into those systems to make them fail, and for me is the most important work.
Michel Chossudovsky (by his own admission) is not part of the 911Truth Movement he did some analysis on the mobile phone calls from flight 93. He is an economist from Canada and an analyser of Globalisation.
And then there's the thinly veiled anti-semitism of Huffschmidt. and the whacked out "illuminazi" theorists.
Then there is the MSM attitude that tries to mock all 911Truthers as Loons much in the same way that you do.
So is the 911Truth Movement news?
It was certainly news to me - that millions of people don't believe their Government and are living with the fear that a Fascist state is being engineered and built in their country. All the pieces are in place. It just needs another false flag and their off.
Is 911Truth an "activist" movement?
Mostly, if you count 'media activism' or 'information activism' there are actions planned mainly of the holding a placard variety. They actively organise and disseminate information. They actively disagree. They actively speculate and try to fit the pieces together.
There are those who tell you not to give up your arms and sell you water filters and anti bio air scrubbers and videos telling you how to survive the coming nuclear Armageddon (for just $29.95).
The point of the 'Summer of Truth' film screenings is for discussion about possible action.
So 911Truth has a disparate range of political world views including anarchists, liberals libertarians Christians Jews Muslims scientists and no doubt nutters. and is not some monolithic loon machine that you describe. You allude to David Ike and I guess what happened to the Greens after his loon outbursts. You can't really compare the two.
If Locking On is what you consider to be the only way to be active the gates of power don't change Menwith Hill, The BIS building in Basle, The G30 , The CATO Institute, the Rand Corporation whatever you like.
Do your thing.
The thing about 911 truth is that it highlights the Globalists strategy and reveals their MO. I in no way feel a part of a "911Truth" Movement, I'm merely analysing it and reporting it .
And that for me is part of the role of Indymedia.
Comments like yours are disruptive, divisive, reactionary and not well researched. Very similar in fact to the responses of Fox News and the MSM in general.
Animal Rights Activism is reported here does that mean I'm an ancestor exhumation loon because I support Animal Rights Activism?
twopercenthuman
Chomsky is a Badger too ! Ha!
21.07.2006 23:46
Chomsky describing 11/9/01
"In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope to use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the likely US actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this one, or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than they appeared to be before the latest atrocities."
If you change.. In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right
to ......... In short, the crime is a plan of the hard jingoist right
The only difference is the difference between shit happenes
and people make shit happen
or shit people make shit things happen
If your an activist then surely you hold that people can indeed make shit happen, otherwise why bother?
Chomsky;s "gift" is exactly what PNAC wished for in their own publications in 2000. So the "hard jingoist right" wish for "A New Pearl Harbour" and presto,lucky for them, it happens just a year later. Wow just what they hoped for happens, how marvelous for them.
Here Chomsk is discussing American International Terrorism.
"CHOMSKY: Well, for example, the United States happens to be the only state in the world that has been condemned by the World Court for international terrorism"
He's aware that the USA is capable of performing acts of international terrorism,(presumably conspiring in order to plan and carry out their plans undetected) but apparently these good Americans would stop short of carrying an attack on their own soil?
More on terrorism
"A second candidate for most extreme act of Mideast international terrorism in the peak year of 1985 is a car-bombing in Beirut on March 8 that killed 80 people and wounded 256. The bomb was placed outside a Mosque, timed to explode when worshippers left. "About 250 girls and women in flowing black chadors, pouring out of Friday prayers at the Imam Rida Mosque, took the brunt of the blast," Nora Boustany reported. The bomb also "burned babies in their beds," killed children "as they walked home from the mosque," and "devastated the main street of the densely populated" West Beirut suburb. The target was a Shi'ite leader accused of complicity in terrorism, but he escaped. The crime was organized by the CIA and its Saudi clients with the assistance of British intelligence. NOTE{Boustany, _Washington Post Weekly_, March 14, 1988; Bob Woodward, _Veil_ (Simon & Schuster, 1987, 396f.).}"
So Chomsk is clearly identifying a terrorist operation my goodness this man's a complete Conspiraloon CIA/Saudi Clients with British Assistance Is he mad? as a Badger in a bag?
More from the same article
"In brief, there was nothing odd about the proclamations of the leading co-conspirators in Mideast international terrorism, which therefore passed without comment at the peak moment of horror at the "return to barbarism.""
So "co-conspiritors" mmm this guy looks more and more like a Badger.
He just fails to connect American International Terrorism with State Sponsored Terrorism. i.e. the State sponsoring the state sponsored terrorists is his own State, the USA. Its not a great leap, but Chomsk refuses to even think it may be a possibility.
"Washington waged its "war on terrorism" by creating an international terror network of unprecedented scale, and employing it worldwide"
So Washington created an "international terror network" this bloke is a stark raving loony according to your analysis i.e. applying your criterion for uncovering Badgers in Bags.
Chomsk the Badger. he's so cute.
twopercenthuman
2%
24.07.2006 10:46
Inactivist
Why?
24.07.2006 15:14
I'm just pointing out Chomsky is just a gnats hair away from what CTers say
you use Chomsky to mock CTers
Chomsky's thinking is close to CT thought , that makes him (according to your analysis) as "mad as A Badger in a Bag"
Chomsky says
USA=International State Terrorists
USA=Perpertrators of Terrorist Actions
USA=Instigators of worldwide terrorist network
Join the dot's............
USA are capable of carrying out actions like 11/9/01
All bow to the God Chomsky only his thoughts are valid. He's never wrong. I guess that makes him perfect.
Havn't you got a sense of humor?
twopercenthuman
Why?
24.07.2006 16:17
Inactivist
In What sense Deluded?
24.07.2006 20:08
To Me!
twopercenthuman
LOGIC
24.07.2006 22:08
If you need to get gen'd up on it so we can argue the toss about whether this is
a. Logic
b. The statements above are quoted out of contex
c. The staements above are untrue i.e. change the TRUE to FALSE in any of the staements above i.e.
Chomsky believes the statement is in fact false
here's the join the dot's bit ....
it involves probability
if any statement is false then the probability of the
conclusion
"USA are capable of carrying out actions like 11/9/01"
is reduced
If more than one statement is false then I'm wrong AND deluded AND very very deeply ashamed.
If more than one statement is true I'm right
I'm not really that competitive
I believe The conclusion
"USA are capable of carrying out actions like 11/9/01"
to be TRUE
the key word is "capable"
I was not mocking Chomsky
I find his work invaluable. Trouble is I don't know enogh of it-all this argument and stuff.
2% Human 98% Chimp
And I'd like to appologise to the Chimpanzies
98% CHIMP