I saw a lady being wheeled along on a paramedic stretcher with an oxygen mask on her face- she looked in a really bad way- anybody know what that was about??? or if she's OK?

Sound system or no sound system (and yes, it sounds a pretty inconsiderate thing to do- if I'd been sitting in that pub (as I had been shortly before) and somebody had put a sound system on when I was trying to chat or have a quiet drink I'd be pissed off too- somehow theres always got to be soembody at the bookfair who equates 'anarchy' with 'do what you want without any regard for others' - a bit like the twit in the reception area who kept trying to make holes in the ceiling with a broom handle- then berated the folks on the desk who asked him to desist, accusiing them of being 'control freaks'!), but thats not the point, I watched the whole 'riot' thing unfold whislt standing on the pavement nearby and there was absolutely NO NEED for the level of disruption and escalation that occured. I've seen far worse distrubances in pubs get dealt with in a far more low-key way, I'd be interested to know how many other disturbances in pubs occured accross London last night (some no doubt much more violent) that also warranted the presence of so many cop vans, riot cops with battons and shields and the closing off of a major London thoroughfare. The cops clearly over-reacted, and whilst it made an amusing and exciting spectacle from where I was standing, it suddenly wasn't so funny when I realsised that at least one person had been pretty seriously injured (ie, above posting about the woman with oxygen mask being stretchered away). The cops have alot to answer for, and whilst the folks in the pub who maybe provoked this might have been behaving like dorks, that doesn't excuse or justify the escalation and over-reaction that occured. The cops were itching for a fight and thats all there is to it.

While whoever put on the sound system in the pub is obviously an idiot and was probably causing a lot of trouble for the bar staff (I dont know, I wasnt in the pub), that kind of situation only requires one or two police officers to sort it out. They didnt have to send down as many as they did in riot gear. I wonder how many pedestrians who were just walking past and had nothing to do with the bookfair got caught up in it all.

It wasnt a riot until the police turned up.

hey rikki
thanks for uploading those
you got any more ?
all photos and videos even phone photos and videos wanted one of the people arrested was an imc-uk person who was arrested for taking photos of the arrests (of course they will be used for others defence too) also witness statments needed too.
mail imc uk at imc-uk-evidence(at)indymedia.org (replace the (at) with @
thanks

Those twats who took the soundsystem into pub were unbelievable. They were the ones who caused that shit last night. Serious anarchists should cut all ties with those crusty dickhead lifestylist arseholes and tell them to fuck off.

There's a presumption that there's a connection - it could have just been some random knob who decided that while other people had specifically chosen a quiet pub, he needed it louder and sod them.

Or he could have been acting on behalf of the police.

"It wasnt a riot until the police turned up"...

Thats right! Prior to the police turning up it was a bunch of idiots invading an ordinary working mans pub and, without invitation, attempting to take it over for their own selfish and self-centered purposes.

The only "control freaks" in the area were these same idiots who think that its their god given right to go anywhere, and say or do anything to anyone without a care for the ordinary people who live, work and relax in the area. Did they care that ordinary people just wanted to chill and have a pint?

Oh yes... and whilst I stood watching the stupidity of a few outside the pub, I saw many glasses, bottles and other missiles being thrown at police and by-standers. Mmmmm???... I wonder how that woman was really injured. Did those that threw the missiles really care who they hit?

When I saw the injured woman, she was being cared for by the POLICE, while the idiots in the crowd continued to scream like a bunch of primary school kids at a fun fair. Did these idiots even notice that someone was hurt?

So, to all the idiots out there, (and you know if you were one of them), remember the locals in Holloway Road have human rights too. The world doesnt belong to YOU ! It belongs to all of us. Im prepared to share it with you. Can you grow up and do the same for everyone else?
( I wont hold my breath eh!?)

The woman on the stretcher had her foot injured when a shop shutter came down on it. It was an accident.

The idea that the Coronet is a 'working mans' (sic) pub is laughable - its a chain store matey - they're everywhere and they've resulted in the closing of many a true working class pub.

Its a large space that caters for the masses, and I bet many conferences and events from the London Resource Centre end up in there.

it wasn't a "bunch of idiots" in the pub. everything was fine until the real idiots brought the soundsystem in. the staff at weatherspoons had been ok with everyone all night as far as i could see, despite being rushed off their feet. taking the soundsystem into the pub and refusing to turn it off was pathetic, why wind up people who had been ok with us? but i agree with others posting comments here that act of crass bad manners does not mean that the police were justified. they were totally over the top and dealt with it really badly. i heard as well that the people who gave the police the excuse they were looking for to wade in just fucked off out of trouble leaving loads of other people in the shit although that could be rumour. what a mess. seven people arrested because the police are looking for trouble and some idiots handed it to them on a plate. well done whoever you are. i hope you intend to help out the people who are still in the nick tonight.

I was in the pub when the sound system got set up on the next table. The people responsible for it were some young crusty types with a couple of dogs. I'm sure they had been to the Bookfair.

They must have thought they were being revolutionary in playing something whose words were impossible to make out. It would have been far more subversive if they had gone into a pub with an expensive jukebox and played for free Robbie Williams's greatest hits or whatever else the pub was charging for.

Anyway, after the system had been disconnected and reconnected a few times, the pub seized one of the speakers, the crusties disappeared with the rest of the sound system. My mate and I finished our drinks and left, noticing the half a dozen or so cops hanging around outside. Then, as I was walking to Highbury and Islington, I saw more and more flashing blue lights heading north. Everything was over by the time the cops arrived (or should have been). Hopped on a bus and found a line of riot cops preventing people going in front of the boozer. Crossed the road, walked along a bit, crossed back and got to the bit of pavement the cops were supposedly protecting.

Total farce, but not for the injured woman or those who got nicked.

Well... what can I say ?
...of all the points I made in my previous post, the only argument you can respond with is that the Coronet is not a 'working mans' pub. If it isnt then I stand corrected on that one little point, (whoop dee doo). BUT... I think even your vivid imagination would be hard pressed to call it anything else?

However, that said... I work hard... I enjoy a pint... and if Wetherspoons sells me a pint cheaper, then thats where I will choose to drink. As will a lot of my working class mates, (Oh yes.. and Im not your "matey" either btw). We cant all afford to go to the lastest trendy wine bar you know. Why dont you and your mates find the local hang out for REAL capitalists and go and ruin their day.

Still, its nice to see that at least you are not blaming the police for the injuries suffered by that poor woman. I dont think too many others here would accept that so easily.

Totally co-incidetally, and unbeknown to me at the time, my mother, who was looking after my 7 year old daughter for the day, was on one of the busses that got caught up in the traffic jam caused by the police over-reaction, she saw all the cop vans, cop cars and cops swarming around and imeadiatly thought "Oh my God theres been another bombing..." and was really worried.

Also co-incidentally, I'd been in that very pub about half an hour before it all kicked off discussing the deliberate ramping up of 'anxiety culture' post '7/7'.

Not sure whats thats got to do with anything, but its just an observation and if ramping up anxiety was the desired effect, its working it seems...

"There's a presumption that there's a connection - it could have just been some random knob who decided that while other people had specifically chosen a quiet pub, he needed it louder and sod them. Or he could have been acting on behalf of the police".

Oh Bobby... how sad. So full of conviction and principle one minute... and then when things go bad... lets blame anyone (or everyone) else for what happens next.

If it was just a "random knob" or an undercover cop then why did 7 crusty's get themselves arrested defending him, I mean how stupid could they all possibly be? LMAO (again)

Are you surprised that the landlord wanted to close the bar? The coronet is a music-free pub. A lot of the punters drink in there for this very reason. So a group of quasi-crusty 'anarchists' decide to selfishly impose their soundtrack onto other people. They talk about anarchy and 'freedom'. What about freedom for other people to enjoy a quiet pint?

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but nobody here is defending the idiots with the stereo. They comprised a tiny minority among the hundreds of anarchists who were at the bookfair and they were well out of order.

What actually went on outside was absolutely rediculous, a complete and total overreaction by the police, who, as usual, seemed determined to escalate the whole situation.

I was in the pub too when the 'sound system' - er, let's be honest it was basically a glorified ghetto blaster - was turned on. It wasn't _that_ loud, but in short just sounded like bad white noise. It did piss people off. Both some people who had been at the bookfair, and others who had just been in the pub trying to have a drink while the general bookfair crowd filled out the pub.

Being honest it was always going to cause trouble when the bar staff asked for it to be turned off and the people with the music refused. That said quite a few people who had been in the bookfair also asked them to turn off the music. But as someone else said, the music was on then off, then on, then turned down, then off - end.

With the police arriving with vans and cars and starting to push people around the result could be pretty much guarenteed, with the addition that the police lost it and started battoning people pretty early on and the situation escalated. The whole main incident was over pretty quickly, but then more police kept arriving after the emergency call for assisatnce and kept deploying to keep pushing people further away.

So, yes the whole incident was a bloody joke. A silly pub stunt which was in my opinion just a bit stupid, but which should not have led to the resulting outcome of seven people pretty randomly arrested. Criticise the ghetto blaster players for sure, but don't forget that this should have been a minor pain in the arse and not the more major incident it turned into when the police waded in.

I am not an anarchist and wasn't at this event, but some of these anarchists appear to be just out for a fight with the police. I am not necessarily talking about all the anarchists, just the ones instigating the violence in the first place - and not necessarily the ones who happened to be acting selfishly with a sound system. If the police decided to close a pub down then surely these people could have just walked away from the situation.

While these anarchists are arranging a fight in a pub, the political masters, _not_ the police, are massacring innocent people in Iraq not to mention the introduction of identity cards, attacking freedom to protest, locking Muslims up without trial with plans for deportation, turning a blind eye (helping to cover up for the Police officers) to the shoot-to-kill policy that has ended up killing an innocent Brazilian man. There are also moves towards action against Syria or maybe Iran through the United Nations.

No to Violence - No to War

I was in the pub when that rubbish was going down. Those wankers should be ashamed of themselves. They come into a pub, where most of the people were enjoying a few drinks and catching up after a great day of meetings and socialising, and turned on their excuse for a sound system. It was intrusive to us and the regulars who were also enjoying their saturday afternoon. They were asked on various occasions to turn it off, by staff, anarchists and locals. The worst part of it all is that they seemed to take great delight in refusing to give a fuck as to what others thought. I asked them to turn it off and they laughed. The bar closed and they refused to open it again until it was turned off. They could have done it then. But no, on/off/on/off/on/off, just to piss everyone off. The arrogant fuckers knew what they were doing. Assholes. It took someone to take one of the speakers and smash it to the floor before they finally got the message and pissed off. By then the staff had had enough. Not really surprising when some crusties play load incoherent garbage at full volume, must have thought they were reliving J18. Someone needs to have a word with them and tell 'em to grow the helll up.

As for the stupid argument on here about Weatherspoons being working class or not, well no it is not, but the people that frequent the ones outside zone 1 tend to be and they deserve to be respected if they want to have a drink in relative peace.

As for the wankers with the speakers, let's not for a second blame those bastards for starting the ensuing shit outside, there is only one set of people responsible for that.

So nobody wants to defend the idiots with their music? Ok. So we agree they are idiots.

Seems nobody wants to argue that people outside WERE indiscriminately throwing missiles outside the pub either? Does this also mean we agree this did happen?

Also funny how you dont talk about the massive levels of verbal and physical abuse dealt out to the cops? I was there... you cant pull the wool over my eyes. I SAW IT HAPPEN!

Oh yes... and when I got outside there were only then about 6 to 8 cops there at that point... the road was already blocked by about 400 crusty's all crowded around them baying for their blood. If I was in their shoes I'd have been just a little bit intimidated (wouldnt you?) and Yes I probably would want to defend myself too!

The police provoked everything.
They started the incident by arresting one individual outside the pub who had not broken the law in any way.
This outraged many people who at first demanded they explain themselves.
When the cops ignored these pleas for an explanation, people tried to defend the innocent.
I tried to ask two of the cops a simple peacful question and they yelled at me and threatened me with their batons.
People had every right to be outraged.
The cops behaved like a bunch of thugs who've been fed too much bovine growth hormone.

"Oh yes... and when I got outside there were only then about 6 to 8 cops there at that point... the road was already blocked by about 400 crusty's all crowded around them baying for their blood. If I was in their shoes I'd have been just a little bit intimidated (wouldnt you?) and Yes I probably would want to defend myself too!"

I was there and your account is one big fairy tale.

The 8 cops should not have roughed up the first arrestee - they should have weighed up the situation before employing the heavy handed tactics. It was once they grabbed the guy and attempted to put him into the van that people began reacting to what they had done - and that was the point things got of control.

Attacking someone when you are outnumbered is only going to work if the the crowd agree with what you are doing. The crowd clearly did not.

"Baying for blood" MY ARSE!

Well, Sir CUMspect,

What Police Station are you attached to & what's your badge number ???
You're not part of Indy Media - you appear to be a Troll - spouting the "official" line against these terrible anarchists who don't want to buy into the rubbish the media, police, govt come out with...

Why don't you crawl off back to your police bulletin board & do your work.
Or perhaps this is your work, a spoiler troll for the bludge of the law.

Typical. Someone calls for adult responsibility for actions (the pigs didn't appear for no reason and to specifically hassle some toerags) and they get shouted down with abuse and accusations of being woooooh "a policeman."

The pigs turned up because some people were acting like arseholes. They flew of the handle because some people were acting like arseholes. Don't compound the error by siding with the arsehole minority please.

I wasn't there, though i'm glad to hear about the succes of the bookfair. Interesting to read comments, pro's and contras about the 'loudspeakersmenriot' i wasn't at, to make up my mind about the truth (is therer ever ONE truth (?), to resituate the riot, through the coments avove.

The woman on the stretcher had severely injured her leg, and I think may have been concussed. She was very hysterical. The Police did an okay job of getting her to safety. They wrapped her up in this tin-foil stuff, and then stayed with her until she was stretchered off.

The Punk people who played the music - I was sat on the table next to them with my friends. Their music was NOT loud. I must stress this. It was normal volume. They were rude to the staff who tried to get them to turn it off. They then stopped serving anyone and said that they would resume normal service when the music was off. It was turned off several times by other people. They just turned it staright back on. A bald man ripped out one of their speakers and stamped on it unil it was broken. They got more speakers out and carried on. The police arrived. Naturally, the Punks and Baldy shit themselves and leg it. The pub staff start yelling that they're closed. We go outside, and well, Anarchists and the Met Police in a confined space? Recipe for a riot, if you ever need one. lol.

-Alex

Ok, I was there by chance to withness the riot on Saturday night.
The police didn't beat anyone, there was no violence at all, just a few people arrested because they didn't comply with the safety orders from the Police. I spent more than an hour there with my shopping bags, because I've never withnessed a riot before and I wanted to check myself the behaviour of the policemen. I was standing between policemen and anarchists, there was no assault, no charge, no violence at all. Just some stupid screaming from the chickens, sorry, anarchists.
Why these people can't meet without causing disorders I don't really know. And what about their way of living? Ok, this society is not perfect but you should thank this country (which is not my country, because I'm a foreigner who lives and works in London) that gives you the chance to live your life in any meaningless way you want. We laught at you but we tollerate you.
Have you ever wondered if you were in not-capitalist country but in communist country like China or North Korea, how an anarchist grouping would be dealt with? And what about Islamic countries, Iran, Iraq... any anarchist there... alive? And what alternative society do you propose?
Stop blaming policemen and other people because YOU are losers! Read books, learn something, get a girfriend and a job and start enjoying life and freedom.

I'd be glad to listen to your feedback and suggestions.

Enrico

 en2001_6@hotmail.com

Hey Mr (S)not Impressed (can u see what I did there??),

I don't mind adult responsibility, I use it a lot. I take responsibility for my own actions. I also respect the people around me, whether I happen to agree with them or not. We all have to live on this ball of rock.
I don't feel Sir Cumspect was making useful comments. It's clear that what happened outside this pub was a big over-reaction by the police. We have fights outside pubs in my home town - yeah if they are bad enough we may get a riot van (singular), so the "public order" arguement is not really valid.
I agree that people should be able to have a drink (and choose to go somewhere where music isn't played if that's what they like in a pub) without being hassled, or having their evening ruined by people being anti-social.
Most of the comments on here have critisised the actions of the stereo players. But the police should be critisised also, for their actions.
I have seen before on here where people come onto the site & they act just like the police do in tense situations, they wind it up. 'Riot' is what riot police do, maybe we should start doing "incitment to riot" public arrests on them... I feel what people are saying here is a complete over-reaction for a minor incident. The police do not listen to people in these situations. To just push people out the way, who may or may not have been involved, is an inflammatory act.
I retorted to Sir Cumspect, because the rubbish he was writing seemed just like a 'spoiler' (or troll as they get called on here). I know I'm not being unreasonable to say that the police & other agencies do & will check sites like these to 'gather information' and also to spread disinformation. Sites like these go against all they would like to see (a sheep-like population endlessly consuming, just doing as their told & questioning nothing), this is not a mainstream madia site - they don't like it.
So someone on here spouting the government line should be called a troll - or even a policeman if that's how they come across.
Maybe there should be another thread started to focus on the positivity of the book fair. The peaceful day of association & information sharing.
I don't feel we should ignore incidents like this, but get the positive too (loads of people having a great day). It's media manipulation, a peaceful day is 'ruined' by a handful of anti-social, violent thugs (police), the papers get their pictures of the 'violent anarchists'. The facts that these things get orchestrated ny the police is rarely reported. The police SHOULD be made accountable for their heavyhandedness (bushism any1 ;-) ).
For someone to come on here & stand up for the actions of the police that night, has got to be an ignorant 'Daily (hate) mail' reader (or worse a sun reader *gasp*)
Attacks against photographers & journalists at protests has to stop - if they don't want us photographing them & reporting what's going, this smacks of totalitarianism, if they've done nothing wrong they have nothing to hide.
I'm sick of the attitude of the govts toward their people at the moment. The police just follow the orders of their govt (bludge of the law). recent events include : Czechtek 2005, Utah rave party, this...
we all need to put the humanity back in society - - don't believe we are isolated, we are stronger than they try to make us think, they know this and it scares them.

Aha, it's the age old argument "a big boy did it and ran away!" No, I don't think anyone deserves a beating for playing a ghetto blaster in a pub. On the other hand, I don't think people who lob bottles at pigs are my comrades unless they have a VERY good reason to do so. See the double standards yet?

The fact of the matter is that police turned up because some people were being anti-social. The shit hit the fan because, according some to some versions, people were abusing and pelting the cops. Whose version to believe is hard to tell since we *always without fail* get the "but they just attacked us for nothing!" bleating. Sure probably most people got attacked for no reason, but that doesn't mean the pigs went berserk for no reason.

This has bugger all to do with the wider problems of demonstrations. I used to live just off Holloway Road very close to the tube station. I used to work on Holloway Road. I know the area very well. I have seen the riot vans turn up to cart off drunks causing shit in pubs. I have seen a friend violently arrested in the same scenario and there were no obvious anarchist events in the area. Usually, it's just one TSG van that turns up, but if they get into a situation where people start threatening them or pelting them as sure as shit stinks they'll call in more, and more and more...

What is it that you think is unjust here??? The fact that the staff in the pub on shit wages called the plod, or that the plod went mental when under attack? I personally think it's unjust that most of the people affected by the incident were probably innocent of ANY wrong doing.

And all you can do is say the pigs alone are to blame. Was it the pigs that were dressed up as crusties, was it pigs that were lobbing stuff? That's the next daft line of argument that usually ensues. "It was MI5 dressed up!"

The nub of this problem is age old: arseholes that attach themselves to anarchists. If they attached themselves to the Hari Krishnas they'd be next in line for indiscriminate beatings and arrests...

I'm not saying it is right & fair. It's just how things on average tend to work whether we like it or not. The police do have a tendency to attract arseholes into the ranks who'll overreact. But that is totally familiar to all of us. It's like complaining the dog bit you when yer mate stuck a fag on it's arse.

Do you really think that everyone here must be some sort of troll just because they disagree with you? I'm resigning my Anarchist Club membership now if I have to agree with such arguments as yours.

Sorry, if I'm a bit direct, it's a theme that has irked me for a long time.

Awww, whats up Dave cant you handle the truth then eh?

>>"What Police Station are you attached to"
Im attached to the real world mate... not the planet you're on!

>>"spouting the "official" line against these terrible anarchists"
I didnt see a line? was there a line? where was this line?
All I have spoken about in any of my posts was the facts of what happened at the Coronet.
Again... cant you handle the truth?

>>"Or perhaps this is your work, a spoiler troll for the bludge of the law"
If only! To get paid for winding up idiots like you, now that would be good.

But in truth thats all you have inst it? If anyone says you were wrong in any of your actions then they must be part of the BIG BAD establishment.
In truth I'm just Joe Public. But that is too bad for you to contemplate isnt it? That an ordinary Joe like me can tell the truth about your actions and let everyone know what REALLY happened. Because in your "control freak" little mind you dont want anyone to find out the truth. Now thats censorship.

Sir Cumspect knows the truth, after all, he was there.

So, here it is, the TRUTH of what happened according to Joe 'Public'

" Prior to the police turning up it was a bunch of idiots invading an ordinary working mans pub and, without invitation, attempting to take it over for their own selfish and self-centered purposes."

So Wetherspoons is now a working mans pub.

Aint that the truth?

" why did 7 crusty's get themselves arrested defending him, I mean how stupid could they all possibly be?"

So, the 7 arrestees were all CRUSTIES arrested for DEFENDING one of the sound system crew?

Aint that the truth?

" and when I got outside there were only then about 6 to 8 cops there at that point... the road was already blocked by about 400 crusty's all crowded around them baying for their blood."

Thats a lot of CRUSTIES BAYING FOR BLOOD, is it not? And now it turns out that Sir Cumspect arrived on the scene after the incident had already started, yet he claims to know why the all the arrests happened.

Aint that the truth?

Actually, as it happens, its not the truth at all. Its a bunch of prejudiced one sided "control freakery" bollocks.

Aint that the truth?

Well,

To Not Impressed,

Hey what do you know - we agree on something !
I also feel that violent people who attach themselves to peaceful protests/anarchists (which basically is a system of taking personal responsibility for our own actions, more public involvement in policy/decision making... leading to a dismantling of state power) /football fans/whatever group are arseholes.. they ruin it for everyone else, in terms of football fans - it means hassle if they go to follow their team abroad, in terms of peaceful protests, it ruins the message. I don't condone violence of ANY sort... (just call me Ghandi ;-) )

I was on the J18 march with my gf at the time, her friend & her daughter & my son. We marched with people, danced in the streets - and it WAS refreshing to see the streets full of PEOPLE, instead of lines of traffic - the kids had their faces painted, we cheered when a guy managed to shin up a cctv pole to put a sticker over the lens.. we left about 4 to catch our bus home - we also saw the riot police gearing up (we'd sneaked into a small park to feed the children) casually chucking their rubbish into the park. It was only later the violence errupted.
At no time did we feel ourselves , or more importantly our children to be under threat of violence - it was like a street carnival.
I was commenting more on the attitudes of govts & how those orders then get prosecuted by the police.
So, we have some on here saying glasses & bottles were thrown at the policce, others have made no mention of this, unlike the omniscient Sir CUMspect I wasn't there - I was adding my opinion - and as you say, there are always two sides to a story.
No, you don't have to side with these people - we all have to make our own minds up about these things..
BUT you start reading about attitudes of those in power (Noam Chomsky et al) & you realise how LITTLE they really care about the people they govern.. take GM food causing tumours in rats tested with it (mores specifically maize MON683), take the way corporations can get away with polluting, take the case of how many of the crap they put into food is carcinogenic or toxic (aspartame any1?). It angers me that we mean so little to them, they will poison our food, air & water for the sake of profit AND then give these organisations welfare - in terms of tax relief etc.
Most of us, want to live our lives, do work that is rewarding & get paid a reasonable wage for our efforts, enjoy time with our friends & generally live peaceably. We all want to be happy & loved - even policemen... ;-)
BUT - (and it's probably different for everyone) some things happen that cause you to want to try to make things better.
I agree, that often the innocent do get 'caught up' in violence when they've done nothing wrong (& i sincerely hope your mate was o.k. afterwards). I don't live in cloud cuckoo land - but I feel it's good to try to make things better.
Coming back to this incident - let's face it - if you ask 10 people what happened at an event, you'll get 10 different answers, some aspects of it will corroborate, some wont. I feel the crux of all this is the way that the days events were peaceful, informative etc & then the violence errupts later. Yes I know the police have a job to do (a friend of ours IS in the force) that is unpleasent etc (I wouldn't want to have to tell someone that their son/daughter has been killed or other such events), but it is the way sometimes this is carried out that matters.
In a civilian example - a good bouncer is not the one who's best at sorting out fights, a good bouncer will deal with a situation BEFORE it gets tothat 'flash' point.
It's the same with a 'good' policeman - unfortunatley, in unreasonable situations, people act unreasonably.. We have no definite reports of who, how many etc were throwing objects at the police, what motivated them to do this (& yes throwing object for NO good reason is not productive), was the police use of force measured & matched to what was happening ?
(& yes Sir CUmspect, how do you know what happened, when you turned up later ?? what 'real world' do YOU live in?? I don't find anything you say educational, &/or informative)
I visit this site in the course of reading news - I also look at the BBC sites, Guardian, Independant - so it's all about getting a balance. We should all recognise what slant a particular news organisation is coming from & adjust what's said accordingly.
The fact remains, there are a lot of people in this world who Don't agree with what their respective govts are up to And want to do someting about it - we really are Fighting for our rights to live with diginity, not just be a 'unit' of production (wages have actually gone down in 'real terms' & were working longer hors).
Post sept 11th, govts around the world have used these events to crack down, not on terrorists, but rather to curtail the hard won rights of freedom of ORDINARY people. (their ideal state is an ongoing war against a nebulous force - there are only around 160 true al-quaida operatives worldwide - so as to be able to rule by fear & take away more rights).
THis is not a fantasy, this is the way it's going.. so do you just bend over and take it, or say to our public SERVANTS (mps), we don't want or need this, actually we want this, or need that... And often these things that are petitioned for are not major things, simple things like being able to live a peacable life with diginity & actually feel we are being treated with respect, not mugged off by an increasingly totalist govt (which is really what an organisation like a corporation is - no pubilc involvement, no accountability).
so, how much of what I've written do YOU agree with?
DTH

"So Wetherspoons is now a working mans pub"

No, you're right. Wetherspoons is an upper class place. (NOT) Thats why they sell the cheapest beer around and. As I already explained... thats why I like to relax there.

"So, the 7 arrestees were all CRUSTIES arrested for DEFENDING one of the sound system crew?"

In actual fact I dont know any of the people arrested... and I dont know why they were arrested... I was merely making comment on the lead article which claimed that attempts were made to de-arrest someone. FACT... if you get in the way of a cop doing (what he thinks is) his duty then you will probably get arrested. FACT... if you throw missiles at people, and a cop sees you doing it, you will probably get arrested. If you know any different then say?

"And now it turns out that Sir Cumspect arrived on the scene after the incident had already started, yet he claims to know why the all the arrests happened."

My God... you really are dumb (lol). Try reading my posts again. I was drinking in the pub. Now, I know that Im probably closer to God than you but even he doesnt allow me to be in two places at once. I had to leave the pub to go outside, (sheesh, how stupid are you?)

"so, how much of what I've written do YOU agree with?"

Pretty much everything!

"I was commenting more on the attitudes of govts & how those orders then get prosecuted by the police."

Okay, I could do a Newsnight and say "Well you should have made yourself clearer"... but equally, I'm guilty of jumping to kneejerk conclusions.

I think that one of the major problems with the police is that lack of democratic accountability. They are more often no longer part of the communities they police, the laws the enforce are becoming increasing distant from any democratic representation. And, I've been surprised by policemen agreeing with that.

I just sensed there was a danger that the dialogue here was erring down the old "Bloody facists picking on us because we're a threat to the state and we had nothing wrong..." Where the reality is it was a situation that needlessly got out of hand. I think the idiot that advised closed the pub down has a lot to answer for as do the twats with the ghetto blaster.

I feel that too many people ride off the backs of anarchists, antiglobalists etc and use them as an outlet for their own destructive nature and that too many become their apologists. Oh, I'm equally outraged by police lies:

 http://www0.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/10/326478.html

And have personal knowledge of how (most likely on the behest of political need "to be seen to be in charge") the police will let's say occassionally *embellish* their evidence.

What annoys me most, beside the thought of innocent people in custody while the arseholes probably legged it, is that people are defending troublemakers and all I can see is the average person picking up the Islington Gazette and reading about anarchist mobs and thinking "Arseholes deserve a good kicking!". It's very rare to see any news about anarchists that doesn't follow that paradigm. The Haringey Support people seem to be the exceptions.

Be a force for good and be seen to be a force for good! Participating in the role of negative stereotypes attracts arseholes looking for a badge and an enemy to attack.

Just like the plod.

Here's yer hat back. Sorry, I knocked it off!

M

They were not "CRUSTIES"

They were not arrested for defending anything

The arrests were arbitary and for the individual cases groundless

Some at least will sue the police

If you're a witness get in touch with any of the addresses that have been publicised or LDMG:
ldmg.org.uk

I'm seeing alot of rage directed against the alleged 'crusties'- now just for a bit of perspective, yup, I think we're all agreed that they was acting like arseholes, but come on, as 'Splitter' points out, how many of us can honestly say that we havn't acted like twats/showed off when pissed/etc, etc at some point in our younger days? I know I have and been kicked out of pubs and totally seen the funny side from the lying in the gutter face down perspective(but never been violent, just annoying like our crusty friends- and I'm going back some 20 years...). i've also been on the other side, ie, wanting to enjoy a quiet drink and chat with friends, with obnoxious noisy types making a noise in the vicinity (more usually 'working class' 'football rowdies' actually...), but at the end of the day, lets get some perspective... the crusties were being drunken twats. if you'd been drinking in the pub where they were, and it HADN'T kicked off, they'd have pissed you off for a bit at the time, but by now they would have totally receeded from your conscioussness. At best it would be "remember that bunch of noisy twats last year?" "Yeah weren't they noisy twats... Hope they've grown up a bit now"

Long and short, (if we believed in the myths...) cops should be trained to PREVENT these sort of disturbances, to keep things low key... like Dave the hat said somewhere in all this, the best bouncers are those who prevent disturbances occuring in the first place. But no, the cops chose to escalate a situation which could jhave been dealt with relatively calmly. maybe they had an agenda? No no, thats paranioa, the banning of the Bookfair, where all sorts of non-compliant, non-New Labour opinions and information are exchanged is surely just a happy side-effect...

Long and short (yeah I'm a bit pissed as I type, but at least its not CORPORATE BREW!!!), the behaviour of the crusties might have been a catalyst to what kicked off, but the cops were to blame for the escalation, and its sad to see so much critisism and blame directed inwards rather than outwards where it perhaps belongs.

"Read books, learn something"

In my experience most of the anarchist I know have degrees.

You must stop reading The Mail.

I'm an anarchist. Anarchists are my comrades. I don't like the fact that police exist, I don't like most police, etc. And it's obvious that the police over-react. That's like, their job. "OH SHIT, SON! ANARCHIST? PROBLEMS? SEND THE RIOT POLICE". Who can blame them with all the crazy shit we do? :) This particular thing, it looks like, some dopes did some stupid thing, and when bacon showed up some anarchists were doing the Christ-complex thing, "oh no, repression!" so they lobbed some things at cops (not necessarily to provoke, but just to show them how much they don't like them!) and the cops were like, "Holy shit that's illegal, bro'." So they come over and yell some stuff and the anarchists are like, man, I don't want to get arrested, so they bail. Cowardice? No, just silliness and indecisiveness.

The whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. My spideysense tells me no repression - and a whole lot of hype - happened here. From the police POV, of course they're going to send lots of well-defended cops to an incident where there was or had been an anarchist gathering. Jeez.
They only over-reacted if you think anarchists have never done anything to provoke a police defensiveness. Durrr.

Riot? No. Scuffle? Yes. Big Fucking Deal? No. :)

Oh dear, you guys really make me cringe. Activists. Do you really think that you're gonna make a difference to the way the world works by winging and nattering on at it? What you have to understand is that the vast proportion of the population of this joke of a country ( and most if not all so called developed contries ) couldn't give a rats ass what the government does unless it directly affects the level of comfort or indeed luxury that they enjoy. So, either you have to get radical (and get crushed by the oh so well established figuative man), or just give up on the whole shtik.
Hopless.

why are none of the police in the photo looking even remotely angry!

i think some of the cops have the same brains as some of the anarchists. both hate each other and both want to prove it by rucking for their own bit of personal gain and ego booost. i find crusties and anarchists are usually ruder and more up for a ruck than cops if you aren't already in their 'club' (hair, clothes etc). cops uphold some sick laws and 'only do their job', but 90% of the time they treat you with respect and manners, if you do the same. OK they are locking you up at the time, but on a personal level i'd rather be in a room with them than some of these strict stroppy uber-anarchists, who do nothing but alienate 90% of people and put the cause 2 steps backwards.