The political talk shows are winding down for the summer holidays, but they made a special effort tonight on La7, a private channel owned by Telecom Italia (not one of Berlusconi's!). Hosts: Giuliano Ferrara, an ex-communist- turned-socialist- turned-Berlusconian- turned-neocon, who led the 2003 media blitz in favour of the invasion of Iraq, and Gad Lerner an ex-radical-turned-soft-middle-of-the road-centrist-cum-leftie who also lobbied for the war but has since recycled himself as "one of the few who were opposed to it". Guests: Paolo Miele, the editor of Italy's No. 1 newspaper, Corriere della Sera, a rag that will happily translate and publish anything the Bush war machine sends its way; Maurizio Molinari, a journalist in London (and also a keen propagandist for Iraq invasion); Piero Fassino, the secretary of the main Italian leftwing (ex-communist) party; and an "expert in religious sociology". Lots of journalists in there, but here they are so embedded they are they usually outnumber the "experts" on opinion shows.

To get to the point - is Berlusconi "appeasing terrorism" by announcing a mini-withdrawal? - the show touched on a few interesting themes. Miele, the newspaper editor, challenged the others to come up with a better way to spend all those billions if not on war. The party secretary did - better intelligence, an end to the obsession with military solutions ("a war on Iran would be a bigger catastrophe than the war on Iraq" - and no one objected, interestingly), and policies in Europe for integrating and giving full citizenship to muslim immigrants. Miele objected that European muslims "haven't changed", and that he awaited the day when even one muslim would denounce a terrorist plot (this after untold cases in Italy of false arrests of imaginary terrorists, all of them dutifully reported as fact by newspapers like Corriere della Sera).

The discussion swung to European muslims, with the editor and the neoncon co-host hammering away at the "Islamic threat", although - interestingly - on the TV news tonight the Berlusconi channels (five to choose from) were anxious to show how muslims in Italy had condemned the London attacks. The "muslim fifth column" card seems to be part of the game plan for increasing paranoia and garnering consensus but it's not getting far, so far.

Ferrara, the neocon co-host, tried anyway, asserting at one point (kid you not): "You can't integrate people with head scarves, we have to win a global war against islamic fundamentalism!" Well, it worked in 2003...

Finally, they got to the B. question. Is Silvio "dropping his pants" in the face of the terrorist threat, as the neocon Ferrara suggested (rhetorically, I mean, he is after all the editor of a far-right rag owned by Berlusconi's wife)?

The editor of Corriere della Sera tried to get in a shot at Zapatero for "caving in to terrorism" but, faced with the recycled leftie's objection that "Zapatero just did what he promised the electorate he would do", was reduced to describing the decision to withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq as "inappropriate".

But in the end all agreed that withdrawing 300 of Italy's 3,000 troops starting in September was unlikely to endear him to the al Qaida bombmakers, and Rome - or somewhere in Italy - is a target. With popular opinion in Italy so much against the war - and Bush, who really gives people the creeps - Berlusconi must know he is history if that does eventuate. (A recent survey of rightwing voters here found the majority were against the war.)

So, there you have it - a slice of opinion from Italy.

Daniele Massi, reporting (twice?) from Rome for indymedia...