If, as the article says - "the Cuban government bans all religion" - how come there's an Archbishop of Havana? And Bishops, priests, churches, Christian weddings, and funerals.

Fidel Castro seems pretty good at providing free healthcare and education, but absolutely useless at enforcing bans.

Religion is banned in Cuba but it's a ban which is ignored by the Cuban people. Priests are routingly arrested and harrased by the security forces and the secret police and there have been cases of churches being burned by the army.

The Cardinal has suffered years of harrasment

What absolute nonsense. Jaime Ortega may or may not become Pope, on this matter I have no opinion. But the rest of your comments are complete untruths. To say that Fidel Castro's government 'bans religion' is a lie that's been banded about by enemies of Cuba's socialist revoltion for decades. I know Cuba well and have seen frequent open displays of religion there. The country is full of churches, the largest of which have recently been restored in Havana. If religion is banned then why did the late Pope make an official visit to Cuba where he shook hands with Castro and shared a platform with him? Why did the government openly promote this visit and why are there still posters displayed in houses (quite openly) aroudn the country (that I have seen with my own eyes) and why did national state-owned television only yesterday allow Jaime Ortega to make an address to the nation on the news of the Pope's death. Of course Cuba doesn't encourage religious fervour and prosletyse the nation but that is because it is a tolerant, secualar state, trying to avoid the rot spread by churches like the Roman Catholic one. I would suggest that France, by banning religious dress in public institution is verging on repression, not Cuba. As for forced labour camps - total nonsense. These are called prisons in the rest of the world.

I coudn't give toss about the new Pope but I do care when idiots write about Cuba. Prisons and Cuban Forced Labour Camps are very different things, do some research before you write like this again. Read about the case of Hector Valdez, currently working on a sugar plantation in slave conditions for calling for free trade unions. Or perhaps you might look into the case of Mrs Ramirez, a schoolteacher who showed her children one of the palaces used by Casto's family and received six months hard labour at a fish factory

There are already free trade unions in cuba so when you say he was campaigning for them I think you acutually mean he was campaiging against the system of organising society that Cuba has chosem. In other words he wanted to overthrow the system and deprive 11 million Cubans of their access to some of the best social networks and services in the world. I would have thought a few months cutting sugar was a bit of a leniant punishment for that. You must realise that Cuba is up against huge obstacles and is surrounded by enenmies everywhere so what may seem as a bit of 'free speech' to us here could actually be something much more serious in Cuba. I find the story of Mrs. Ramirez and her fish factory hard to believe without there being slightly more to it but if it is true then at least she was doing something productive with her time rather than sitting in a cell all day.

I might also draw your attention that the Cuban governement have opened up its prisons numerous times to inspectors (both to the media and to the UN) and those hwo have visited them could see "nothing much wrong". I suggest its own own govenrnment we have to worry about (see recent report into conditions in Holloway prison for women).

So will a speculative Cuban pope finally finish of the job that Pope J-P 2 began in Poland and finally finish off the last 'socialist' state in Cuba?

I don't think it will be that simple.

Cuba sure ain't Poland in the 1980's....

While I am not a loyal fan of Castro, and I don't think Cuba is a socialist country, a workers and peasants paradise in the sun, or anything like that...

... But at least it is an independent country, not totally ruled over by America - and most Cuban's wanted to keep it that way!

Just like most Poles didn't want imperialist ruled by Moscow, most Cubans don't want the same from Washingston.

And they can see that their brothers and sisters in the rest of the Caribbean who live under Free Market Capitalism are worse off. Cuba has some advantages.

Your last comment about inspections of Cuban prisons tell me one of three things,

i.. You're just a bullshitter who is trying to wind people up

ii... You're one of those 80's dinosaurs who couldn't see any problems with Soviet Russia and now can't see a probelm with the repressive Castro regime that allows the President and his family to live in luxury while the majority of the population lives with daily shortages.

iii . . You are being paid to lie about Cuba for a living.

Socialism has failed Cuba like it has failed every other country it has been tried in because the majority of the people don't want it and it must be imposed by force and maintained by tyranny.

Forced labour camps are a reality in Cuba and the only prisons that ever been open for visits are two near Havana which do not represent the others.

Feel free to post more crap about Cuba, I won't be reading it and others won't be believing it.

Declaración a la prensa nacional y extranjera del Ministro de Relaciones Exteriores, Felipe Pérez
La Habana, 2 de abril de 2005. 16:00 horas

El gobierno y el pueblo cubanos hemos seguido de cerca y con sumo interés, como otros pueblos del mundo, la evolución del estado de salud de Su Santidad, el Papa Juan Pablo II.

Ahora acabamos de recibir con profundo pesar la noticia de su fallecimiento. Siempre vimos al Papa Juan Pablo II, y lo seguiremos viendo, como un amigo. Alguien que se preocupó por los pobres, que combatió el neoliberalismo y que luchó por la paz.

Siempre recordaremos con gratitud su visita a nuestro país en el año 1998, sus palabras amistosas. Siempre recordaremos también su pronunciamiento contra el bloqueo que sufre nuestro pueblo, al que calificó como "medidas económicas restrictivas impuestas desde fuera del país, injustas y éticamente inaceptables".

Nuestro pueblo lo recibió con respeto y simpatía. Nuestro pueblo y nuestro gobierno no olvidarán la visita del Papa a nuestro país, su cordial recibimiento al Presidente Fidel Castro en ocasión de su visita al Vaticano, y no olvidaremos nunca las huellas que su visita dejó en nosotros.

Expresamos en este momento nuestro mensaje de condolencias, de respeto y solidaridad a todos los creyentes católicos, en Cuba y en el resto del mundo.

Informamos también que todas las actividades relacionadas con los funerales tendrán amplia cobertura en nuestro país.

Procederemos a enviar un mensaje oficial de condolencias del Presidente Fidel Castro a su Eminencia Reverendísima, el Cardenal Eduardo Martínez Somalo, Camarlengo de la Santa Iglesia Romana.

This debate is interesting but at the end of the day i think it illustrates the problem so many of us often face in 'political' discussions if we are coming from different 'ideological' backgrounds. For myself and those Cubans (of whom I KNOW there are plenty, including some good friends of mine) who support the Cuban revolution then labour camps or prisons become a way of defending the general population from anti-social and counter-revolutionary threats. As someone who I can't recall once said, "when you've built a revolution you don't just sit in your rocking chair". Why shouldn't those who try to undermine a just system (and this is where personal ideology, does, I admit, come in) be forcefully made to give something back? Of course in an ideal world there would be no need to over take a man's liberty away from him and it is not something to do lightly, but as you will know, Cuba is surrounded by a sea of aggression and an ocean of lies from which it must defend itself. Those people who are defended by so-called 'human rights' groups as 'politcal prisoners' are often in the pay of pretty nasty terrorist organisations (usually based in Miami) who have time and again taken the lives of innocent Cubans and on occasion, tourists. Blowing airliners out of the sky (1976), spreading virulent diseases and putting bombs in hotels.

As for your comments about poverty. Of course Cuba isn't prefect and yes, Cuban socitey and the economy has MANY problems. It is a developing country in the 'third world' and like the rest of Latin America has suffered its own share of colonial rape in the not so distant past. But if you can look beyond the lack of dishwashers and satellite televisions there is one of the best social infrastructures in the world in terms of health and education. Material shortages are hardly suprising given one of the most brutal and savage blockades in history.

Fidel does not live in a palace, by the way. He sleeps in a room next to his office in the rather ugly concrete building behind the Plaza de la Revolucion which is a government building full of other offices and state rooms. The salaries of all ministers are at the bottom of the pay scales in the country and even critics of Cuba are forced to admit the well-known fact that corruption amongst SENIOR members of the Cuban government are historically very low. Fidel does have a house where he goes to take breaks on La Isla de Juvetud but someone I know who was there when he came for a brief visit told me it is little more than a rickety wooden ranch. He works so hard he has little time to enjoy 'palaces'.

Anyway, I have enjoyed the discussion so thank you and I do respect your opinions and I AM not paid to write what I do.

Thanks for the posting Carlos...I want to practice my translating skills...

Declaration to the National and Foreign Press from the Ministry of Exterior Relations, Felipe Perez, Havana, 2nd of April 2005. 16:00

The Government and Cuban people have followed closely and with the utmost interest, like other peoples of the world, the evolution of the state of health of His Holiness, the Pope John Paul II.

Now we have just received with profound weight the news of his demise. We always saw the Pope John Paul II, and we will continue to see him, as a friend. Someone who concerned himself with the poor, who combated Neoliberalism and who fought for peace.

We always remember with thanks his visit to our country in 1998, and his amicable words. We will always remember aswell his pronouncement against the blockade that makes our people suffer, that he called "Restrictive Economic Measures like taxes originating from outside of the country, unjust and ethically unacceptable."

Our people received him with respect and sympathy. Our people and our government will not forget the visit of the Pope to our country, his cordial reception of the President Fidel Castro on the occasion of his visit to the Vatican, and we will never forget the impression that his visit left on us.

We express in this moment our message of condolence, of respect and solidarity with all believing Catholics, in Cuba and in the rest of the world.

We imform again that with all the activities related with the funeral we will have ample coverage in our country.

We will proceed by sending an official massage of condolence from the President Fidel Castro and his Reverent Eminence, the Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo, Camarlengo of the Holy Roman Church.


OK, I don't know how to translate Camarlengo. But wow, this message really sounds like it comes from someone who persecutes the Catholic church, and has 'banned all religion'. But then, don't you know that Castro tortures bishops for fun in his basement.
There is a lot of misinformation about Cuba. You may be the husband of a Cuban exile, but that doesn't make you an expert. Her opinion is going to have very strong bias. I know a great deal of Cubans who respect the government a great deal. There is only one country who for sure has a prison in Cuba where they hold people without trial and engage in torture. That country is the United States, and the prison is Guantanamo Bay.

Just to clear the disinformation, this is what a website about Ortega has to say for itself.

Cuban Cardinal Gets Rare TV Time to Speak of Pope
Apr 03, 2005
Communist Cuba's state-run television gave the country's top Roman Catholic prelate rare air time on Friday to inform Cubans that Pope John Paul II was on hisdeathbed.

HAVANA (Reuters, April 2, 2005) - "A great man is dying," Cardinal Jaime Ortega, Archbishop of Havana, said in a six-minute statement on the nightly television newscast.

It was only the second time the cardinal had addressed Cubans on television. The first was on the eve of the pontiff's historic visit to Cuba in January 1998.

For most Cubans the cardinal's appearance was the firstnews they had that the Pope was near death, since the island's state-controlled media had not mentioned his failing health.

In its latest bulletin on Friday evening, the Vatican said John Paul II's heart and kidneys were failing, his breathing was shallow and his blood pressure had dropped to dangerously low levels.

"This is a man who has carried the moral weight of theworld for 26 years ... turning himself into the only moralreference for humanity in recent years of wars anddifficulties," Ortega said.

The cardinal said the Pope never forgot his five-day visit to Cuba, which brought greater religious freedom for Cubans,though not the opening up of the Western Hemisphere's lastMarxist state that many had expected.

Priests were expelled and Catholics persecuted after President Fidel Castro's 1959 revolution turned Cuba into an atheist state. Atheism was officially dropped in 1992 as Cuba sank into crisis and isolation after the collapse of the Soviet Union. One month before the first papal visit to Cuba, Cuba reinstated Christmas as a holiday in 1997.

In an open-air mass in Havana's Revolution Square, the Pope urged Cuba to open up to the world and called on the world to reach out to Cuba. He also condemned U.S. sanctions against Cuba on his last day.

"Saying good-bye at the airport, President Fidel Castro thanked him for his words, including those he did not agree with," Ortega said.

In 2003 the Pope said he was "pained" by the execution of three Cubans who hijacked a ferry in a bid to leave the country. In a letter to Castro he also asked for clemency for jailed dissidents, but his request was never answered.

... for those who don't read Spanish the above official Cuban communique relating to JP2's demise is an exercise in ass-kissing.

It is very tragic to see the Cuban Revolution reduced to this kind of grovelling towards a most reactionary figure and the criminal institution he represented.

The history of Cuba and the heroic bravery of its people and leaders have been a little light in a very dark world for a long time now - they have demonstated how politics, power, national sovreignity, revolution, international solidarity and self-defence works in practise - all in the face of the most implaccable, powerful and cruel foe history has ever seen.

They have helped to educate people worldwide by this tenacious struggle against all odds and their continuous exposure of the true predatory nature of US imperalist power. And this bravery and truthfulness has cost a ferocious price - which is being exacted by the self-anointed Master of the Universe in order to destroy the 'threat of a good example' for the poor.

The tactic, adopted at the low point of inflection in Cuba's struggle to survive, to seek an alliance/accomodation with the Vatican, while perhaps appearing as the least evil option at the time, is bad news in the long term.

The problem is that US/EU/NATO imperialist power has never had a better proponent/ally than JP2, an extremely far-sighted and skilled political operative and master power-broker with plenty of room for manoever. His intention was always most assuredly to help imperialism crush the Cuban Revolution, by means other than war, which had proven itself an infeasible option in the early 60's already when Cuba was still militarily an untrained infant (US Army studies estimated 18,000 dead Marines in the first *10 days* of a ground invasion - this certainly helped cool Kennedy's ardour!)

In short, JP2 (catholicism etc) was/is a more powerful and dangerous enemy than the US military ever can be, but they work in sync for the same ends - power accumulation through domination and enslavement, backed up by divine mandate.

Therefore, good riddance to bad rubbish, JP2, and all the deceit, lies and fear he represented.

I can only reccomend a visit to Cuba, for a fair first-hand study of its history and current situation. 95% of people who do this are inspired to join the fight to protect Cuba and defend/extend the gains of Revolutionary Struggle.

When this happens Cuba won't need the tender mercy of no weepy-eyed snake-in-the-grass Roman Dictator. Hasta la Victoria Siempre!!

By the way, I'm sorry for the typo. I doubt Castro is sending anyone a MASSAGE of condolence. Though I'm sure he's a very capable masseur.

It is so simple to defend the Cuban government, especially if a person hasn't lived through the atrocities of Fidel Castro. Apparently Castro hasn't jailed your mother, father or brother for just speaking out against his government- not to mention the thousands he has killed. I am a Cuban-American, and my brother was murdered by Fidel, just for speaking his peace. So, before you even imply to justify that dirty regime, look at the facts.

Castro warmly received the Pope because it was convenient for him. Catholics in Cuba are still being persecuted, and they can't get good jobs. Thw world would be a much better place if people like the ones who posted above, defending that monster should move to Cuba and after a year, come back to this board, and write your comments. In the meantime,please shut up!!