Deal inked for 2nd season of "Democracy in ... Iraq"
pkj | 28.01.2005 01:06 | Anti-militarism | London | World
Both the Network and producers have inked the deal to renew the hit reality series "Democracy in... Iraq". The George will be back with his trademark bufoonery. Maybe this season he will walk on water!
Deal inked for 2nd Season of “Democracy in… Iraq.”
By PAUL KINCAID JAMIESON
(January 27 2005 pkj.ca)
Washington and Baghdad were all atwitter when the screening of the season two premiere of “Democracy in…. Iraq” played to a packed house at the Pentagon Cinema. There was hardly a dry eye in the house, either from laughter, or from joy. This looks like the break out season starter that the Network and the producers had been looking for.
Getting this show on the road has taken some doing, and not since Apocalypse Now has there been such buzz about a show that has gone over budget, over schedule, and over the heads of most of the audience.
But it’s all looking good now. Thanks to the skilful wonks inside the White House. There looks to be a resurrection of The George in this new season. In fact, if video tape is anything to go by, it looks like his re-inauguration last week was a big hit, and grabbed it’s market share by the halo and is prepared to hang on for the ride.
The cast of “Democracy in…” has been shaken up going into this second season. We see some old faces leaving, and some other old faces, who were in supporting roles last season, being bumped up into more demanding roles.
This could be a challenge both for the writers and the performers themselves. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the claws and saucers of milk were out the other day when Condi Rice was pitched to fill the slot of evacuating Sec State Colin “look-at-my-anthrax-vial” Powell.
There have been those who’ve lambasted the Riced-One for her lacklustre performance during the first season of “Democracy in…”, but in all fairness her scenes were badly written, and now she’ll be helming the State Department Condi can rest assured that she will be getting all the ace material she can handle.
Critics and audiences have been agog at the way The George has parlayed his talent into this behemoth of boffo box office. Going up to 300 bill and beyond, the “Democracy in …” franchise is all set to explode in this second season.
Insiders say that the producers are thinking about a whole direction for the hot commodity and are wanting to take “Democracy in …” into brand new markets.
This is a bold strategy. It worked for “Survivor” but not for “Big Brother.” One only hopes that they haven’t bitten off more than they can chew!
And speaking of taking a bite out of the reality show glut, one thing is for sure, there is never a want for people willing to get some screen time; just look at the success of “American Idol.”
Only yesterday 31 Marines and a sailor took a dive into the western desert of Iraq, and you can be sure that although Simon Calloway might have something snarky to say about their performance, you can bet your bottom dinar that for the folks helming “Democracy in …” there’ll be some good “grieving family members” pop-ups and studio tear-fests to pluck from this latest coup.
“Onwards and downwards into the spiralling maw of total chaos and misery,” could be the unofficial slogan at the “Democracy in …Iraq” HQ. But, after all, that’s what keeps the ratings so high and tent-poled the Network through the last November Sweeps. The “other” Network had been trying to dust off it’s old “Exit Strategy” concept, but in the end it got only lukewarm praise from the viewers, and when the Neilson beancounters were through, it was the gang at “Democracy in…” who got the nod. “Four more years, four more years…”
Looking inside the success of the show a lot of the heavy lifting falls to The George. His trademark blank stare and gappy pauses have delighted and intrigued audiences around the world, but in this second season he has gotten off to a brilliant start with a whole new direction.
Everyone praised his “Bring ‘em on” line, and it could be heard from food courts to prison yards across the nation. A whole “bring ‘em on” merchandise deal was rumoured to be in the works when legal complications and the rising death toll made it seem passé, and a new catch phrase was needed. “Freedom is the Almighty’s gift to humanity” is popular enough right now, but still too long to fit comfortably on a T-shirt or a foam beer jacket. Understandably, pressure is on the writers to come up with a snappy line to rival last seasons’ famous, “significant quantities of uranium from Africa”, or the explosive hit, “We don’t want the smoking gun to come in the form of a mushroom cloud.”
Viewers who may have missed the initial episodes from the first season need to do some catching up, so here’s a quick refresher.
In the two hour pilot, which aired in November of 2000 and ran in repeats for several weeks, The George was seen battling to get his series on the air. The ratings were never that conclusive, but then in a strange twist of never seen before reality, the FCC stepped in and in a tribute to knowing quality when they saw it, kept The George on the air.
The first season started out as a bit of a black-hole ratings wise, and many viewers started to drop out. Something big, muscular, and audacious had to be done to get The George back on top. The usual dog and pony show of a celebrity wedding, or perhaps even a coma were bandied about, but nothing was really going to work unless it had the element of true drama, and in reality TV nothing says “truth” like a massively staged and carefully orchestrated set-piece to occur in prime time.
This was a bold move. Everyone old enough to have a hip replacement remembers the days of live TV in the fifties. Anything could happen, and often did! Well, setting their druthers aside the producers opted for a script that they had been shopping around for some years. Over at the Project for a New American Century the writing crew of Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and the rest, had been trying for ages to get somebody interested in their property. It looked like this was one doggie that was going to stay in the window. Until that is, The George finally got the green light. The old Project for a New American Century storyline was, dusted off, spray tanned, and given a botox smile. There was excitement in high places, cos this was the ratings rocket the producers had been angling for since January 2001.
This extra-special live episode of The George required a lot of extras casting, and the roles finally went, after some initial debate, to a group of he-hunks from Saudi Arabia. These guys were all unknowns in their homelands, but most of them had been making names for themselves in Germany with the local talent scouts, and even FBI star watchers had been on the trail of these Arab bad boys while they made their new homes in the US. The producers were concerned that the cat might get out of the bag, and nothing blows a ratings coup like pre-air leaks. Even when Condi made her appearance with a memo in August saying that the top villain was going to make a cameo soon, the news was kept under wraps by the PR paladins over at the Network. Nothing was going to blow this moment.
And out of a clear September sky who could have believed the ratings bonanza that followed.
It was at that point that everyone in the country, and indeed the planet wide viewing audience, came to know and love The George and the new direction the show was taking. Suddenly, with this new story idea and the retitling of the show to “The Global War on Terror” there was something that everyone could sink their teeth into.
The packaging of the show took many forms over that first run. First there was “Democracy in… Afghanistan.” This plot line wrapped itself up way too soon, and the producers were left scratching their heads over what to do with the contract for the big baddie. He’d been locked into a secure deal that guaranteed him points off the back end, and a one percent share in the gross. There was no way the Network was going to let this golden goose get out of the frying pan. The producers finally figured out a way to keep his character alive, and now he has topped the charts with a series of internet releases that have found their way onto the i-Pods of anyone even a little jihad-savvy. Watch for him to make a splash sometime in the second season. Regular viewers of “Democracy in…” know that when the ratings start to sag the big baddie always releases a new single that shoots immediately to number one.
After the full market press and total ratings sweep of “Democracy in… Afghanistan” the Network read the tea leaves and saw that the audience was there for something really big. So the decision came to expand the franchise, and half way through the first season came “Democracy in… Iraq.” Right from the get go this was going to be da cluster bomb that would take The George to new heights of popularity and even global acclaim.
Fans and critics alike poured onto the streets of all the world’s cities to let The George know how deeply ran their love for the “Democracy in…” series. In the history of television there has never been such spontaneous fan support for a show. Not even the campaign to save “Cagney and Lacey” matched the steady swelling solidarity of viewers around the world.
Well, it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to figure out when you’re riding a winner use the whip.
In the Emmy sweeping episode “Shock and Awe,” the special effects crews were kept up for days as they sprinkled Baghdad with showers of twinkling glitter and billowing gouts of flame. Not since the implosion of the Stardust has so much energy been unleashed to raze the dead dreams of a mobster’s paradise. Hundreds of extras were on set during the shooting of that episode, and some accidents occurred. But not even the deaths of a few hundred walk-ons could dampen the wild-fire ratings that followed. When the numbers came in it was confirmed, “Democracy in … Iraq” was a boiler plate hit!
Keeping the show fresh has always presented obstacles to the writers, but again, thanks to the naïve need to appear on TV there has never been a lack of star-struck wannabes eager to try their chops in prime time. Professional companies of performers were the first to be used for the “Democracy in…” franchise, but the Industry, being the impatient mistress that it is, always requires new faces, and so amateur and part-time actors were called upon in vast numbers to fill the chorus roles. Once cast in demanding parts some of these weekend-thespians complained that they had no idea how hard it would be. They weren’t ready to work the long hours, their trailers weren’t heated, and the extras cast as Iraqis hated them. Well, we say, “Suck it up Jennifer, there’s plenty more out here willing to take your place if your head gets blown off, or you start having nightmares…” To be on “Democracy in….”? I know it’s my dream come true. Sign me up!
Since the beginning of “Democracy in … Iraq” we have gotten to see a lot of new faces. Some of them have gone on to star in short lived spin-offs like the hilarious “Double Amputee” , or the side splitting “Hanged in Parent’s Basement.” But rest assured, there will be more. Lots more.
Nowadays our TV’s are splattered day and night with the faces of these new kids on the chopping block. And what makes the “Democracy in…” series so spectacular are the heights of realism it soars to. The producers really must have deep pockets when it comes to adding those details that just shriek believability.
Legless, armless, and hideously burned bodies. Screaming women, children drenched in blood, massive explosions, and gunfire, gunfire, gunfire!
Rumours had it that Keifer Sutherland turned down a recurring role in “Democracy in… Iraq” because of a scheduling conflict with his hyper hit 24. But, no worries there, for there are always a new group of eager fresh-faced kids wanting to get some major chronic camera time with their guts hanging out, or crying over the body of a dead buddy.
Getting a face-to-face with the production team of “Democracy in…” is a hard task. In fact, just last week a group of parents whose kids had been used as body-bag-fillers in “Democracy in … Iraq” tried to get a sit down with casting director Donald Rumsfeld, but they were told that he was busy trying to get the leads together for this new season’s storyline.
If that’s true, we all have something wonderful to look forward to.
Spin-off series “Israel” has been doing difficult box-office as some viewers are tiring of the endless “Three’s Company” mistaken identity plots and the never ending sort of violence that never has an upside to it.
In fact, word has it that a lot of viewers, especially those in Europe, or with a pulse, are beginning to root for the perennial underdogs, the Palestinians. That has been perplexing the writers of “Israel” for the past few seasons, and though they have tried to introduce some new plot twists like the Separation Barrier, or the massive home demolition programme, nothing seems to be really firing. But, rest assured, for you few die-hard viewers of “Israel” the Network is locked in to a multi-year deal, and even The George considers himself the shows number one fan. He used to root for the Roadrunner too! Meep! Meep!
Looking forward into this second season of “Democracy in…” we also see that The George is getting a makeover. Though less Queer Eye than maybe Caligula, the King of Crawford is now set to throne himself as Emperor of the World. Whether or not he will want the planet’s six billion to bow down and worship him as a God is another thing, but rest assured, he doesn’t really care! That’s what makes him the toast of the water cooler, and the loveable scamp the world has come to fear.
At his recent re-crowning in Washington The George gave his best performance yet, thanks to the show’s talented writing staff and the special guest director. The old plot line of “The War on Terror” has been replaced with “The War on Tyranny” and though The George isn’t going to upset any borscht carts by going after Russia, or any rice bowls by going after China, or any oil barrels by going after Saudi Arabia, he does have his eyes firmly locked on…. Can you guess? Insiders whisper to me that it looks like that sullen temptress of the Gulf, our old friend Iran.
For regular viewers of “Democracy in…” this second season is sure to supply even more twists and surprises than the first season. There is already in the works plans to take the US into some sort of strange New Dark Age, where only Christian Evangelicals get to do what they want, and they will then attempt to impose their bizarre interpretation of the Bible not only on America, but on the entire world.
As a kick off to the second season, the producers and the Network have come together to wrap up the “Democracy in …. Iraq” angle. This might come as a shock to some die-hards, but don’t worry, cos this second season is set to see “Democracy in…” spread to every one of the 146 countries in the world!
For the finale of “Democracy in…. Iraq” the producers have come up with an absolute show stopper! An election, to be held this Sunday. Now, insider buzz is that perennial scene stealer Abu Musab al Zarqawi and his crew might stage an appearance during the election episode. So, set your VCRs and TIVO to “stunning.” Anything can happen! One thing is for sure though, love it or hate it, “Democracy in….” is here to stay!
All that’s left for you to do is microwave some Orvilles, and save me a seat! Nail biting tension, side splitting laughs, and the possible end of life as we know it. God, some call it reality TV. I call it heaven!
By PAUL KINCAID JAMIESON
(January 27 2005 pkj.ca)
Washington and Baghdad were all atwitter when the screening of the season two premiere of “Democracy in…. Iraq” played to a packed house at the Pentagon Cinema. There was hardly a dry eye in the house, either from laughter, or from joy. This looks like the break out season starter that the Network and the producers had been looking for.
Getting this show on the road has taken some doing, and not since Apocalypse Now has there been such buzz about a show that has gone over budget, over schedule, and over the heads of most of the audience.
But it’s all looking good now. Thanks to the skilful wonks inside the White House. There looks to be a resurrection of The George in this new season. In fact, if video tape is anything to go by, it looks like his re-inauguration last week was a big hit, and grabbed it’s market share by the halo and is prepared to hang on for the ride.
The cast of “Democracy in…” has been shaken up going into this second season. We see some old faces leaving, and some other old faces, who were in supporting roles last season, being bumped up into more demanding roles.
This could be a challenge both for the writers and the performers themselves. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the claws and saucers of milk were out the other day when Condi Rice was pitched to fill the slot of evacuating Sec State Colin “look-at-my-anthrax-vial” Powell.
There have been those who’ve lambasted the Riced-One for her lacklustre performance during the first season of “Democracy in…”, but in all fairness her scenes were badly written, and now she’ll be helming the State Department Condi can rest assured that she will be getting all the ace material she can handle.
Critics and audiences have been agog at the way The George has parlayed his talent into this behemoth of boffo box office. Going up to 300 bill and beyond, the “Democracy in …” franchise is all set to explode in this second season.
Insiders say that the producers are thinking about a whole direction for the hot commodity and are wanting to take “Democracy in …” into brand new markets.
This is a bold strategy. It worked for “Survivor” but not for “Big Brother.” One only hopes that they haven’t bitten off more than they can chew!
And speaking of taking a bite out of the reality show glut, one thing is for sure, there is never a want for people willing to get some screen time; just look at the success of “American Idol.”
Only yesterday 31 Marines and a sailor took a dive into the western desert of Iraq, and you can be sure that although Simon Calloway might have something snarky to say about their performance, you can bet your bottom dinar that for the folks helming “Democracy in …” there’ll be some good “grieving family members” pop-ups and studio tear-fests to pluck from this latest coup.
“Onwards and downwards into the spiralling maw of total chaos and misery,” could be the unofficial slogan at the “Democracy in …Iraq” HQ. But, after all, that’s what keeps the ratings so high and tent-poled the Network through the last November Sweeps. The “other” Network had been trying to dust off it’s old “Exit Strategy” concept, but in the end it got only lukewarm praise from the viewers, and when the Neilson beancounters were through, it was the gang at “Democracy in…” who got the nod. “Four more years, four more years…”
Looking inside the success of the show a lot of the heavy lifting falls to The George. His trademark blank stare and gappy pauses have delighted and intrigued audiences around the world, but in this second season he has gotten off to a brilliant start with a whole new direction.
Everyone praised his “Bring ‘em on” line, and it could be heard from food courts to prison yards across the nation. A whole “bring ‘em on” merchandise deal was rumoured to be in the works when legal complications and the rising death toll made it seem passé, and a new catch phrase was needed. “Freedom is the Almighty’s gift to humanity” is popular enough right now, but still too long to fit comfortably on a T-shirt or a foam beer jacket. Understandably, pressure is on the writers to come up with a snappy line to rival last seasons’ famous, “significant quantities of uranium from Africa”, or the explosive hit, “We don’t want the smoking gun to come in the form of a mushroom cloud.”
Viewers who may have missed the initial episodes from the first season need to do some catching up, so here’s a quick refresher.
In the two hour pilot, which aired in November of 2000 and ran in repeats for several weeks, The George was seen battling to get his series on the air. The ratings were never that conclusive, but then in a strange twist of never seen before reality, the FCC stepped in and in a tribute to knowing quality when they saw it, kept The George on the air.
The first season started out as a bit of a black-hole ratings wise, and many viewers started to drop out. Something big, muscular, and audacious had to be done to get The George back on top. The usual dog and pony show of a celebrity wedding, or perhaps even a coma were bandied about, but nothing was really going to work unless it had the element of true drama, and in reality TV nothing says “truth” like a massively staged and carefully orchestrated set-piece to occur in prime time.
This was a bold move. Everyone old enough to have a hip replacement remembers the days of live TV in the fifties. Anything could happen, and often did! Well, setting their druthers aside the producers opted for a script that they had been shopping around for some years. Over at the Project for a New American Century the writing crew of Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and the rest, had been trying for ages to get somebody interested in their property. It looked like this was one doggie that was going to stay in the window. Until that is, The George finally got the green light. The old Project for a New American Century storyline was, dusted off, spray tanned, and given a botox smile. There was excitement in high places, cos this was the ratings rocket the producers had been angling for since January 2001.
This extra-special live episode of The George required a lot of extras casting, and the roles finally went, after some initial debate, to a group of he-hunks from Saudi Arabia. These guys were all unknowns in their homelands, but most of them had been making names for themselves in Germany with the local talent scouts, and even FBI star watchers had been on the trail of these Arab bad boys while they made their new homes in the US. The producers were concerned that the cat might get out of the bag, and nothing blows a ratings coup like pre-air leaks. Even when Condi made her appearance with a memo in August saying that the top villain was going to make a cameo soon, the news was kept under wraps by the PR paladins over at the Network. Nothing was going to blow this moment.
And out of a clear September sky who could have believed the ratings bonanza that followed.
It was at that point that everyone in the country, and indeed the planet wide viewing audience, came to know and love The George and the new direction the show was taking. Suddenly, with this new story idea and the retitling of the show to “The Global War on Terror” there was something that everyone could sink their teeth into.
The packaging of the show took many forms over that first run. First there was “Democracy in… Afghanistan.” This plot line wrapped itself up way too soon, and the producers were left scratching their heads over what to do with the contract for the big baddie. He’d been locked into a secure deal that guaranteed him points off the back end, and a one percent share in the gross. There was no way the Network was going to let this golden goose get out of the frying pan. The producers finally figured out a way to keep his character alive, and now he has topped the charts with a series of internet releases that have found their way onto the i-Pods of anyone even a little jihad-savvy. Watch for him to make a splash sometime in the second season. Regular viewers of “Democracy in…” know that when the ratings start to sag the big baddie always releases a new single that shoots immediately to number one.
After the full market press and total ratings sweep of “Democracy in… Afghanistan” the Network read the tea leaves and saw that the audience was there for something really big. So the decision came to expand the franchise, and half way through the first season came “Democracy in… Iraq.” Right from the get go this was going to be da cluster bomb that would take The George to new heights of popularity and even global acclaim.
Fans and critics alike poured onto the streets of all the world’s cities to let The George know how deeply ran their love for the “Democracy in…” series. In the history of television there has never been such spontaneous fan support for a show. Not even the campaign to save “Cagney and Lacey” matched the steady swelling solidarity of viewers around the world.
Well, it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to figure out when you’re riding a winner use the whip.
In the Emmy sweeping episode “Shock and Awe,” the special effects crews were kept up for days as they sprinkled Baghdad with showers of twinkling glitter and billowing gouts of flame. Not since the implosion of the Stardust has so much energy been unleashed to raze the dead dreams of a mobster’s paradise. Hundreds of extras were on set during the shooting of that episode, and some accidents occurred. But not even the deaths of a few hundred walk-ons could dampen the wild-fire ratings that followed. When the numbers came in it was confirmed, “Democracy in … Iraq” was a boiler plate hit!
Keeping the show fresh has always presented obstacles to the writers, but again, thanks to the naïve need to appear on TV there has never been a lack of star-struck wannabes eager to try their chops in prime time. Professional companies of performers were the first to be used for the “Democracy in…” franchise, but the Industry, being the impatient mistress that it is, always requires new faces, and so amateur and part-time actors were called upon in vast numbers to fill the chorus roles. Once cast in demanding parts some of these weekend-thespians complained that they had no idea how hard it would be. They weren’t ready to work the long hours, their trailers weren’t heated, and the extras cast as Iraqis hated them. Well, we say, “Suck it up Jennifer, there’s plenty more out here willing to take your place if your head gets blown off, or you start having nightmares…” To be on “Democracy in….”? I know it’s my dream come true. Sign me up!
Since the beginning of “Democracy in … Iraq” we have gotten to see a lot of new faces. Some of them have gone on to star in short lived spin-offs like the hilarious “Double Amputee” , or the side splitting “Hanged in Parent’s Basement.” But rest assured, there will be more. Lots more.
Nowadays our TV’s are splattered day and night with the faces of these new kids on the chopping block. And what makes the “Democracy in…” series so spectacular are the heights of realism it soars to. The producers really must have deep pockets when it comes to adding those details that just shriek believability.
Legless, armless, and hideously burned bodies. Screaming women, children drenched in blood, massive explosions, and gunfire, gunfire, gunfire!
Rumours had it that Keifer Sutherland turned down a recurring role in “Democracy in… Iraq” because of a scheduling conflict with his hyper hit 24. But, no worries there, for there are always a new group of eager fresh-faced kids wanting to get some major chronic camera time with their guts hanging out, or crying over the body of a dead buddy.
Getting a face-to-face with the production team of “Democracy in…” is a hard task. In fact, just last week a group of parents whose kids had been used as body-bag-fillers in “Democracy in … Iraq” tried to get a sit down with casting director Donald Rumsfeld, but they were told that he was busy trying to get the leads together for this new season’s storyline.
If that’s true, we all have something wonderful to look forward to.
Spin-off series “Israel” has been doing difficult box-office as some viewers are tiring of the endless “Three’s Company” mistaken identity plots and the never ending sort of violence that never has an upside to it.
In fact, word has it that a lot of viewers, especially those in Europe, or with a pulse, are beginning to root for the perennial underdogs, the Palestinians. That has been perplexing the writers of “Israel” for the past few seasons, and though they have tried to introduce some new plot twists like the Separation Barrier, or the massive home demolition programme, nothing seems to be really firing. But, rest assured, for you few die-hard viewers of “Israel” the Network is locked in to a multi-year deal, and even The George considers himself the shows number one fan. He used to root for the Roadrunner too! Meep! Meep!
Looking forward into this second season of “Democracy in…” we also see that The George is getting a makeover. Though less Queer Eye than maybe Caligula, the King of Crawford is now set to throne himself as Emperor of the World. Whether or not he will want the planet’s six billion to bow down and worship him as a God is another thing, but rest assured, he doesn’t really care! That’s what makes him the toast of the water cooler, and the loveable scamp the world has come to fear.
At his recent re-crowning in Washington The George gave his best performance yet, thanks to the show’s talented writing staff and the special guest director. The old plot line of “The War on Terror” has been replaced with “The War on Tyranny” and though The George isn’t going to upset any borscht carts by going after Russia, or any rice bowls by going after China, or any oil barrels by going after Saudi Arabia, he does have his eyes firmly locked on…. Can you guess? Insiders whisper to me that it looks like that sullen temptress of the Gulf, our old friend Iran.
For regular viewers of “Democracy in…” this second season is sure to supply even more twists and surprises than the first season. There is already in the works plans to take the US into some sort of strange New Dark Age, where only Christian Evangelicals get to do what they want, and they will then attempt to impose their bizarre interpretation of the Bible not only on America, but on the entire world.
As a kick off to the second season, the producers and the Network have come together to wrap up the “Democracy in …. Iraq” angle. This might come as a shock to some die-hards, but don’t worry, cos this second season is set to see “Democracy in…” spread to every one of the 146 countries in the world!
For the finale of “Democracy in…. Iraq” the producers have come up with an absolute show stopper! An election, to be held this Sunday. Now, insider buzz is that perennial scene stealer Abu Musab al Zarqawi and his crew might stage an appearance during the election episode. So, set your VCRs and TIVO to “stunning.” Anything can happen! One thing is for sure though, love it or hate it, “Democracy in….” is here to stay!
All that’s left for you to do is microwave some Orvilles, and save me a seat! Nail biting tension, side splitting laughs, and the possible end of life as we know it. God, some call it reality TV. I call it heaven!
pkj
Comments
Hide the following 9 comments
Why the Left in Europe is a joke
28.01.2005 11:21
Amazingly they dignify the regressive mullahs and their followers with the description 'resistance', despite the fact that they openly call for sharia law, stoning of adulterers and homosexuals, and support wife-beating. Ironically socialism is a cardinal sin for these 'resistance' terrorists, and something as basic as women's education is under threat if they take control. Unions are still under threat in Iraq- from wahabis and 'resistance' fighters.
This dangerous group of terrorist gangs has so far managed to kill more Iraqi civilians than it has killed occupation troops. At this rate, the entire population of Iraq will be outnumbered by the expatriates (refugees from the baath, incidentally) living in Europe and North America.
A true resistance movement has objectives which express the hopes of - and promotes the well-being of the population. I think we can agree on that. The terrorist gangs in operation in Iraq have aims which range from setting up a reincarnation of the aborted Taleban state in Iraq to reinstating the Baath and its armies of torturers.
Not one of them has publicly declared its intention to hold elections. Not one of them even alleges to accept racial/sexual/religious diversity. The same goes for the basic freedoms we take for granted in Europe.
How can I make it clear...?
They don't want faggots, they don't want women at work, they don't want kikes, they don't want earrings, tattoos, foreigners,,,,,,, sound familiar?
That's the gang you support. Ask any of the bearded thugs in the MAB if they accept anyone like YOU.
Abu Burkan
Change the record, mate!
28.01.2005 16:43
'Moral bankruptcy' my arse. And if you're gonna get antsy that I'm not debating the "issues" with you; that's just too bad.
Abu Schmabu
See what I mean?
28.01.2005 20:25
When we let scum like you represent us .... and all you can come up with is this.
This is why nobody can even think of a leftist - the most famous one of us is 'Allegedly Red' Ken.
We have ended up in bed with wife-beating bearded islamo-fascists because you cannot even be bothered to defend your own side.
We have ended up demonstrating for the release of convicted terrorists because you refuse to explain your position.
We have ended up cheering the wahabys as they butcher Iraqis, because you call them freedom fighters.
We have ended up living on council estates, surrounded by chavs, our unions crippled, our media enslaved to celebrity, our gains reduced to toeknism, Labour corrupted right through...... and all you can respond with is comparing me to David Aaronovich.
No wonder scum like Aaronovich have a decent lifestyle and a real job- because cowards like you discredit us so much. I have met so many scum who know a bunch of witty demo chants, and f**k-all about what surplus capital means. Spotty teenage boys crosseyed through self-abuse wearing Che t-shirts having never read a single thing.
Abu Burkan
Left Out
28.01.2005 21:05
The vast majority of those who consider themselves to be on the left do not even recognise the Soviet experiment as a great though ultimately tragic manifestation of progress. The POMOs have erased concepts of class, class struggle, socialism and even progress from the popular psyche. The success of "anti-capitalism" on the left is nothing more than a manifestation of the extent to which Thatcherism succeeded in Britain. You are by and large, chldren of Margaret Thatcher, and even your arguments "There is no working class anymore, its not the 30s........" are products not only of Thatcher's mindset, but more importantly the empirical evidence they stand upon is a product of Thatcher's policies, and the huge defeats the tories inflicted under her tenure.
But a slave who is aware and fighting is already half free...
The knee jerk reaction of the left -the same politically bereft and bewildered, disoriented left- to the "resistance" is a symptom of this. Unable to analyse the realities on the ground the knee jerk brigade rallies to Galloway and the Muslim Association of Britain. The "resistance" you are defending is raping young women as "payment" for providing their "service". They are agents of Syrian fascism and the toppled Iraqi fascism. They have a deliberate and stated objective of attacking "soft" Iraqi civilian targets ahead of any American military targets. They have done everything in their power to incite a civil war in Iraq.
These are realities that the Western left does not want to deal with. Much easier to say "we support the right of nations to self-determination" learned by rote from their Communist Party days, before they formed their soft face of the left, before they discovered the joys of marijuana and wife beating.
"lets bless wife beating and turn our feet towards Mecca" they said, borrowing strength where none existed. Little did they realise that they had sold not their own souls, but the the women of Iraq into the hands of murderers and rapists, chanting the vile litanies of that accursed religion while the SWP blissfully provided left cover.
Things in the real world are a little more complicated than things in your battered text book.
Allah al Gawad
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29.01.2005 16:47
And remember, it's not just this one time we've interfered in Iraq. There was a time when the forces of Socialism could have taken a hold in Iraq. But at this time, the CIA were propping up Saddam, during the period of his worst atrocities, and provided him with lists of people who he 'dissapeared'.
Islamic Fundamentalism was 'in bed' with US imperialism long before it was 'in bed' with the left. The CIA trained and supported Bin Laden to fight against Socialism. In Israel, Hamas was permitted to form as a counter to the secular PLO. It existed in Israel long before it existed in the Gaza strip. And as Israel slowly destroyed the credibility of the secular leadership of the PA, through constantly reneging on its promises, while the international community wined and dined Arafat, the people lost faith in secular leadership, and turned to religious fundamentalism to provide a stronger way. The same in Iran. There was a democratically elected, left-wing prime minister. The CIA removed him and replaced him with the tyrannical Shah. In response, the revolution brought in Islamic Fundamentalism.
But Islamic Fundamentalism is not the natural state of the Islamic World. Decades of US interference destroying the Arab countries' right to self determination has CREATED Islamic Fundamentalism, because only this single-minded dedicated force seems strong enough to defeat US might. The result of this disastrous war in Iraq will be increased Islamic Fundamentalism, and it hardly existed in Iraq before.
I want the Islamic resistance to win, because I believe that once the pressure of the US is released of that region, the force that drives this fundamentalism will be gone. When the people have the right to self-determination, control over their own country and resources, they can develop. When they are constantly invaded, having all their resources privatised, being subjected to CIA backed coups...no wonder the people are pissed off.
And just one extra point. Which country imposes the harshest Sharia law? And who is the main sponsor of that country? The answers are respectively Saudi Arabia, and the United States funds it.
Supporting the resistance does not mean supporting the values they stand for. It recognises that they are people who's dignity has been taken away from them, who have every right to be angry and to fight, and who have adopted a desperate psychology to have the strength to fight. Remove US imperialism from the region, and you remove the root causes of religious fundamentalism.
You know it's true. Every single pillar that Al Qaeda is based on is built upon what the US does. Bin Laden attracts supporters because the US support Israel's oppression of the Palestinian people, and supports the oppressive and hypocritical Saudi Regime.
Compare to 30 years ago, when 'terrorism' was committed by the secular PLO, and the forces of socialism looked poised to take a hold in the psyche of the Arab world.
Hermes
At last- some coherent opposition!!!
30.01.2005 18:04
Are you stupid? Do you really think that a bunch of semiliterate wife-beaters can defeat the US army? This is typical of the naive position of the most inflexible armchair leftists. Do you really think the US will be persuaded tpo leave the region?
"When the people have the right to self-determination, control over their own country and resources, they can develop."
Which MAB wife-beater told you that islam actually allows self-determination? People struggling under the curse of any religion, especially islam, have no right to control over their own body. Why do you think things will change under islam? According to islam, a man has the duty of beating his wife if she insists on such transgressions as talking to a man, or wearing perfume, or wearing hard-heeled shoes that make a noise. You think they can develop under these conditions? Develop what? Develop doormat-style servility? Develop the best way for women to serve their de facto owner? Develop the best way to wear barely-too-short trousers for men?
"When they are constantly invaded, having all their resources privatised, being subjected to CIA backed coups...no wonder the people are pissed off."
I wonder if being stoned to death for having normal sexual relations, or having a hand sliced off for stealing might piss you off. No? How about not being allowed to speak in public because you're a woman? No? How about not being allowed to show your face in public? That's the rubbish you're defending, dreaming they can defeat the US army. How about cutting off Margaret Hassan's head? Did that piss you off or is that a legitimate expression of the desire for self-determination? How about promising to blow up thousands of people who want to vote? Is that another way to express the desire for people to control their own country?
"And just one extra point. Which country imposes the harshest Sharia law? And who is the main sponsor of that country? The answers are respectively Saudi Arabia, and the United States funds it."
So what if the USA fund the corrupt KSA? What's your point exactly?
"Supporting the resistance does not mean supporting the values they stand for."
No? Well in the real world, it does. What does it mean to you exactly? What does it support?
"It recognises that they are people who's dignity has been taken away from them, who have every right to be angry and to fight, and who have adopted a desperate psychology to have the strength to fight."
These people are fighting to reinstate the Baath and to regain their old positions within that vile system. They made a living destroying the people's dignity and free will.
"Remove US imperialism from the region, and you remove the root causes of religious fundamentalism."
So, US imperialism was the reason why Wahabism was founded way back then? Was it around when the prophet of islam commanded his followers to make sure their cleanliness wasn't ruined by touching women before prayer?
Abu Burkan
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30.01.2005 20:15
Islamic Fundamentalism as a global force is new, and in many ways a creation of the West. One, in the sense that it is a reaction to US Imperialism in the region, adopting religious leadership where the secular leadership has failed them, in the case of the Palestinian conflict.
And in many ways, it actually is literally the creation of the West, who provided it with money and support, for example Bin Laden fighting the Soviets, and Israel funding Hamas in it's early days, as a counter to the secular PLO.
To believe that left to their own devices, the Muslim World would choose to live as fundamentalists is kind of racist, which I find strange for someone with a Muslim name. You are not an Islamic fundamentalist. For centuries, the Islamic world was actually far more progressive than the Christian world. It was Europeans who lived in superstition and squalor during the middle-ages, burning women who showed some sort of independence as witches, the Spanish inquisition...yet we grew out of it.
Like I said before, the Muslim world was accepting gradually more progressive ideas, for example Iran. But the US killed that movement. We destroyed the leftist government, and installed the Shah. In Iraq, we installed Saddam, and gave him lists of socialists to kill. In Palestine, the PA has constantly been undermined and gradually destroyed.
When we destroy these secular nationalistic leaders, and install secular puppet regimes, the backlash is invariably a religious one, as it seems to be the only ideology that gives the people the inspiration and strength to fight.
So now, we have Hamas in Palestine, the Ayatollah in Iran, Al Qaeda all around the world. You can trace the growth of these modern movements to Western Imperialism.
Hezbollah was grown out the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, another good example.
In times of oppression and hardship, people turn to religion to give them hope and strength. We have seen, and would see again, the same phemomenon in the West. In fact, Fundamentalist Christianity is a growing problem.
So I support any group that will remove that oppressive force. The motivation is primarily the desire for self-determination, it is not religious, but religion is the method they have adopted to give them the strength to fight. We have killed far more many people in far more horrible ways in the name of secularism. To cut off someones head on the internet is horrible. To drop cluster bombs on children is far more barbaric. To drop an atomic bomb on a Japanese city...that is what secularism can do. So don't just point your fingers at the 'barbarions'.
Hermes
More Hermes
31.01.2005 08:54
The stoning, hand-cutting, polygamy, and all that stuff is an integral part of Islam. This was going on at the same time as all those advances were made, and innovative medical and mathematical ideas were developed.
Even muslims in the UK, Canada, and other places want to set up islamic law IN THOSE COUNTRIES. But you didn't mention any of that stuff in your response- instead you imply a racist bias on my part.
Abu Burkan
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31.01.2005 20:18
But lets deal with them point by point, if that's what you want.
'Are you stupid? Do you really think that a bunch of semiliterate wife-beaters can defeat the US army?'
Well, one, you make a sweeping generalisation about the composition of the resistance, who are not all foreign islamists and ex-Baathists, something now acknowledged by the US militiary. It seems a rather racist statement towards Arabs. But in any case, they beat the British army when they occupied the country. A bunch of semi-literate peasants beat the US army in Vietnam. Bin Laden beat the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan.
Actually, it all depends on the popular support the enjoy or not. I think the resistance will succeed in the Sunni areas. The Shias and Kurds have their own games they are playing.
I think the cleverest player in all of this game has been Ayatollah Sistani. I think now the elections have happened, we are going to see slight moves by the Shia against the US occupation.
'People struggling under the curse of any religion, especially islam, have no right to control over their own body '
OK, agreed, although not completely. I am not a Muslim, although I don't believe it to be worse than other religions, and I am not an atheist. In fact, I'm a great admirer of the philosopher Ibn al'Arabi, who demonstrates very nicely the unity of all religion in reality. Fundamentalist religion is terrible. It is not a uniqualy Islamic thing. Indeed, Shariah Law is positively mild compared to what Christians have done over the centuries.
But as I've already said, the Muslims desire for self-determination is not a religious one. There has been a constant resistance to US imperialism for 50 years or so. It was secular. It was left-leaning. The US did all it could to destroy and undermine it. So now it has a religious flavour.
But I believe that without US imperialism in the region, the Muslim world is intelligent and wise enough not to live under theocracy.
'So what if the USA fund the corrupt KSA? What's your point exactly?'
Well, that is my point exactly. The people are just itching to get rid of the House of Saud, a corrupt regime that imposes the harshest religious law on its people, while the ruling class fly around the world cavorting with prostitutes. All backed and funded by the US. Without US backing, they would be gone. Possibly there would be a progressive, left-leaning regime. We'll never know. Instead, the resistance to the Saudis is taking on a religious theme as well.
'No? Well in the real world, it does. What does it mean to you exactly? What does it support? '
It means supporting the right of people to resist foreign imperialism and go through the process of development naturally, without foreign interference.
For example, look at the history of Europe and the US. For centuries, we had a theocracy far worse than what we see in the Islamic world. We burnt heretics at the stake. We had the Spanish Inquisition. We treated women worse than Muslims did. In Europe women were reviled. The equal rights of women only came about in the past 100 years.
And it didn't take an invasion by a 'benevolent' 'democratic' 'enlightened' empire to get us to develop.
For example, I might not agree with the fury of members of the VietCong. They could be ruthless to their enemies. They had their own suicide bombers. But now Vietnam has independence from US imperialism, and you don't see that same ruthlessness. ( incidentally, the US was far more ruthless and bloody ).
If some members of the resistance choose Islamic Fundamentalism as a way of drawing strength to fight, I may not agree, I may not make the same choice, but it is understandable. People fall to religion when times are hard. But that fundamentalism softens over time, if people are left to their own devices. The Islamic World has been constantly interfered with for over a century.
'The stoning, hand-cutting, polygamy, and all that stuff is an integral part of Islam. This was going on at the same time as all those advances were made, and innovative medical and mathematical ideas were developed.'
And at the same time as the Renaissance in Europe, we were burning scientists at the stake for saying the earth went around the sun. Your point that it is an 'integral part of Islam' doesn't hold, because like I keep stating, numerous times, resistance to the US is based on a desire for national self-determination, and originally was a secular movement. Islamic Fundamentalism as a potent force in the Muslim world is a relatively modern phenomenon. But you keep ignoring that point, and imply that it is inherent in the Muslim psyche.
All religious expression is inherent in our psyche. Under great hardship it manifests itself in dramatic ways. Joan of Arc was a Christian Fundamentalist who defeated the English army by her single minded fanaticism and inspiration to her troops. If the Western World was ever under any real hardship, you would see similar manifestations. In fact, Nazism in Europe was very much an explosion of unconscious, semi-religious imagery. Zionism is a similar phenomenon, born out of extreme hardship. Islamic fundamentalism is ugly, of course, and it will only grow and become more potent if we KEEP INTERFERING, WAGING WAR AND EXPLOITING THAT REGION.
OK, I've dealt with all the points. Actually, my tone is combatitive, because I believe you have a wrong perception of the roots of Islamic Fundamentalism, and you make broad, contemptuous generalisations about Muslims as 'wife-beaters' etc. But you are using a Muslim name. So I assume you are someone rightfully angry at the role of traditional religion in suppressing and controlling the people in the land you come from, in the same way I have contempt for the part traditional religion has played in Europe.
Are you Shia or Kurdish perhaps? I am interested to know. Because you should really look at the history of that region and see how the imperial powers have betrayed those groups time and time again. Actually, I'm sure both groups know this, and I think they are both acting under the assumption that the US will betray them. I think Sistani has played the situation very intelligently, with the threat of Al-Sadr's militia always in the background. I will of course be very happy if the Shia and the Kurds can use the situation to gain their autonomy, and then tell the US to fuck off.
The Sunni resistance are actually playing their part in bringing that about, because the Shia and Kurds hold all the cards. The last thing the US want is for them to start fighting as well. There is no way they could win. So as long as there is a Sunni insurgency, these two groups will be able to bargain more effectively for what they want.
It's also the reason neither group has taken any retaliation against the Sunni. A civil war would go contrary to those plans.
OK, that's all. And by the way, can we carry on the debate more civily?
Hermes