These type of anarchists are idiots, should Stop the War just have open mic and let any idiot who decides to speak storm the stage.

I wish the stewards had kicked the shit out of them!

I would hope freedom of speech would include any idiot . and not just the bum licking lefties types the problem
with the ESF is that it is organized way the commies organize everything with vote rigging and all the other dodgy political gerrymandering, basically corrupt and already being run by powerfull "Interests" just like all the other political organisations Church and i wouldn't be surprised if freemasonary didn't lend a hand somewhere along the line . check the back stage crockery set it's probably HMP .

Who are these "organizers"?? We can organize on our own!!! We don't need anyone to organize for the working class, FUCK OFF!!! This is just one point where you can see that these "organizers" work together with the police and the state. They are trying to destroy the whole movement by dealing with the state and the police and other anti-emanzipatoric groups...

Anarchists and others, including people arriving from Europe, were legitimately complaining about the treatment they have received at the hands of the the power freaks who hijacked the ESF and the far from gentle hands of the police. For this reason the London version of the ESF will quite rightly be regarded as a complete travesty of its ethos compared to previous versions abroad.

Bloody swappies. Your days are numbered. You are now known across Europe for being the most useless crap Trots on this continent.

The refusal of the official ESF/ Stop the War coalition leaders to allow an annoucement to be made about the arrests at the anti occupation demo in London is very similar to the attitude of the Edinburgh Stop the War coalition leaders at anti war demos last year.

At one of the anti war demos in Edinburgh in March last year several people were arrested in Charlotte Square, after police attacked and arrested a man carrying a FUCK BUSH flag. When we realised what had happened and tried to encourage the crowd to help, the STW organisers tried to get people to go back to the stage and listen to the speakers. When we went to the stage to ask to announce the arrests and state the need for immediate solidarity, the STW leaders (mainly members of the Socialist Workers Party plus some non SWP members of the Scottish Socialist Party) reacted in an extremely hostile manner, refusing to allow us to speak and making statements such as "this is our demo, we are in control".

Eventually, after considerable pressure from many people, they announced the arrests and the proposal for a sitdown protest in Princes Street, the main street. Later, due to the determination of grass-roots demonstrators, this developed into an inspiring march on, and picket of the St Leonards police station where the prisoners were being held. This excellent action, which developed out of the control of the official organisers, was however later defused when the main (SWP) leader called on everyone to disperse from the police station, absurdly claiming that anyone who wanted to stay to support the prisoners was in fact wanting to fight the police.

At another demo an SSP member was arrested, and the only people calling for and taking solidarity action at the police station were participants in
the independent direct action tendency ACTION AGAINST THE WAR, the same SWP leader refusing to do or encourage any solidarity action.

To me this illustrates that the problem is not one of individuals, but a political one, the leaders of hierarchical parties like the SWP want to control and limit peoples actions of rebellion. After the initial inspiring anti war direct actions in Edinburgh, particularly the school students strikes and direct action demos in the streets, the STW organisers refused to call any more midweek demos, attempting to
defusethings into authorised weekend strolls.

Thus, whileremembering that the vast majority of members of these left parties are totally sincere people who genuinely want radical change, and we need to communicate with them, it is vitally important we develop autonomous struggle and organisation. Examples of how this was done in Edinburgh during last years anti war movement, through a series of anti war direct actions including the storming of Edinburgh Castle, can be found at  http://www.autonomous.org.uk and look for ACTION AGAINST THE WAR . There is too I think material on the back pages of indymedia Scotland

First they bash and rob the deputy chair of Unite, then they try and do the same at Trafalgar Square.

These are just a bunch of anarchist freaks who represent nothing and prove every time they are a minority with no support.

oooh fun quiz time

Question 1

The ESF is a bit shit, so do you

a) engage with it froma critical distance
b) not turn up and surrender political hegemony
c) set up a really wanky ''alternative'' and ''autonomous'' forum that noone gives a shit about and looks ridculously sectarian, and end up surrendering political hegemony also

Question 2

The STWC demo is a bit shit, with only about three good speakers and despite the fact that the STWC had a lot of early organising success, for which they should be commended, they have failed to take advantage of the mass support the anti-war movement ganied through tactical errors and reliance on that reactionary anti-abortion, money grabbing, power mad, pro-death penalty and universally hated piece of shit george fucking galloway.

so do you

a)engage with it, pointing out the limitations of the current tactics and argue for better organisation.
b) not turn up, surrender political hegemony and make it look like the STWC hierarchy is the only organisation committed to anti-war politics
c) get really hysterically activisty wave poorly made hippy banners around and try and storm the stage shrieking, ''oooh they're all so authoritaarriannnnn'', while everyone else thinks you're a bunch of nutters.

and to the person on this thread who started babbling incoherently about freemasons and similar barmy conspiracy theories, please i invite you to do the movement a favour and just DIE!

Rant over

You only have to read these silly pages to see that anarchism is a middle-class cult, predicated on individualism: just like capitalism!

Mike (Edinburgh) complains the Edinburgh STW 'organisers refused to call any more midweek demos, attempting to defuse things into authorised weekend strolls.'

I thought the idea behind Indymedia was to provide information not misinformation to the movement. Mike for some reason omits to mention the large mid-week demo in Edinburgh in June 2004'.

It's unfortunate that in future if I want reporting with pictures of what's going on in Edinburgh I will need to depend on the Edinburgh Evening News.

Finally what's to stop Mike organising a mid-week demo or does he prefer to misrepresent those who are.

The only thing you can work out from continued dialogue is that the ESF was hijacked - and that those who hijacked it fucked it up good and proper. And that the only real debate that was to be had was at the autonomous spaces, and during the storming of the palace.

But seriously, the ESF's credibility has been almost destroyed. I predict the Greek one will be far more inclusive and horizontally organised, simply because the fuckers here almost wrecked it. Go out and vote for Tony Blair instead.

Edinburgh Activist makes two points

1. He/she says the edinburgh stw coalition did organise a midweek demo in june 2004

My point was that they did NOT organise a midweek demo in edinburgh in the vital second and third weeks after the war started, in March and early april 2003.

The 17, 19 and 20 march all saw vibrant direct action demos in edinburgh involving striking school students and others. There was then a massive demo on sat 22 march. But instead of trying to maintain and increase the momentum of direct action through mid week day time demos that could act as a focus for school students strikes and disruption of business as usual, for the next 2 weeks the stw leaders called authorised saturday demos.

2. Edin activist says - why didnt you organise your own demos?

The fact is - we did. Independent anti authoritarian activists organised direct action demos on 17 March (the storming of edinburgh castle), 27 March (taking over princes st and beseiging army recruitment office) and 3 april (shutting down petrol station at canonmills), plus at least one other after the official war had ended. Full details at  http://www.autonomous.org.uk and click on ACTION AGAINST WAR in left hand column, bottom.

see also:  http://uk.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/299362.html

Anarchists please grow up!! There are more important things to moan at than the SWP and the STWC. The war for instance. Anarchists, do you seriously believe you are a threat to the state?? You are not, you are a joke. if you are such a threat to the state, then why do you not do something really threatening like assasinating a top politician, like the anarchists of the 1890s did? Do you not realise that after 9/11 the black block and the wombles look hopelessly out of date, and awfully tame. A few drunk crusties on white cider is not a serious threat to anything...Do you really think the ESF autonomous spaces really offered an alternative? They were fun, just as reclaim the streets is fun, but that is all. You guys are just playing rebel, you have no serious political plan or even desire to change anything. I am not dismissing all anarchism, i think very highly of the classical anarchist thinkers, but the things you guys are saying and the way you behave is truly infantile. So, please grow up!!

To clear up the issue: it is unfortunate that someone thought they had lost their phone and their wallet. I understand this occurred when the table on which they were placed was knocked over in the confusion, and the items fell into the front of the (Official ESF) crowd at the front of the stage.

The crowd that had entered the meeting helped look for the missing items. The items were momentarily lost and I have been told by people from the official ESF side that they were in fact found and returned to their owner.

We are all dealing with rumours and misinformation: can ALL WITNESSES speak the truth and account for - what seem to me - these gross misrepresentations. If the person involved did indeed get his property back, then this is one entire so-called problem resolved.

Anyone who thinks anarchists, anti-authoritarians and anti-fascist campaigners would rob someone inside a gathering of the the global resistance movement is a greater fool than I dared imagine. The people who took the stage at Ally Pally were from different types of anarchist, no borders and similar groups from all across europe and our world, and are the very same people who took part in the No Borders action at Waterloo and Calais, who confronted the BNP in Dagenham last week (with the result of arrested comrades), the same people who have consistently refused to collaborate with the pigs or the state in ANY way.

Now what does Lee Jasper do for a living, apart from collaborate with the racist british police?

Anarchist friends have often impressed on me the importance of distinguishing between anarchy and chaos but for at least two reasons the so self-styled anarchists responsible for the absurdly-called 'storming of the palace' have given anarchism a bad name with many people working for a better world.

Firstly, it is appalling that a group of 200 or so chose to disrupt the only plenary session at ESF on stopping fascism and the far right in Europe. Across Europe fascist and far right parties have been polling the highest votes for decades and people who should be organising to oppose fascism chose to disrupt an open forum on how we should do just that. Before their 'intervention' the attendance was at full capacity reflecting the concern ordinary people have at the resurgence of fascism and their desire to discuss how to combat it. They drove many away and the debate was impoverished by that.

Secondly, it is outrageous for people to justify physical asssault on Weyman Bennett and the theft of his mobile and wallet. Weyman is one of the joint secretaries of Unite Against Fascism and a Black activist of many years standing who has worked tirelessly to build a movement to challenge the BNP.

Whatever the intentions of the 'invaders' it is difficult to distinguish this sort of disgraceful behaviour from the disruption of political meetings by the National Front in the 1970s and 1980s, Hitler's cohorts smashing up labour movement meetings in the 1920s and 1930s, or those who put in the windows of those involved in refugee relief in the late 1930s. It is completely contrary to the principles of human solidarity and the ESF.

Paul Mackney
General Secretary
NATFHE
27 Britannia Street
London WC1X 9JP

Tonga, the SWP had fair warning they were unnecessarily excluding Autonomous groups of Anti Capitalists from the ESF process in the UK. This hasn’t happened at any previous ESF.

Why does this split manifest itself in Britain and not other parts of Europe?

Tonga, unfortunately STWC (SWP) stewards couldn’t kick the shit out of Anarchists. SWP (STWC) couldn’t fight their way out of a paper bag apparently. (see Storming of the Palace comments)

Calling the Police TWICE to deal with the result of this exclusion proves this theory no?

I'd just like to point out, without getting into the merits of labels or name-calling, that the people that were arrested and their companions that later went to the ESF stage are not anarchists.

Secondly, the 3 people that were arrested at Kings Cross (two Italians and one Greek) were arrested for the contestation of the social forum planery the night before. During that conference, they were prevented from speaking, and, being activists dicided to do so anyway. In any case, it was the ESF that requested their arrests and that later prevented their companions from speaking from the stage about it.

The situation has little to do with "anarchist" or comunists or whatever, and much more to do with the hijacking of the social forum by powerful political interests.

- from an italian companion

firstly someone was allowed onto the stage to make the arrests and that know, they came on just as DAN the palestinian rap band were starting.

secondly in all the other social forums, anarchists and autonomists have organised seperately so cut the lies.

"The people who took the stage at Ally Pally
were from different types of anarchist,
no borders and similar groups
from all across europe and our world."

I wonder where the majority of people in the room who wanted to see the meeting were from?

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