the are still problems uploading this is a 1.5mb MP4 file

Hamish,

I was at the meeting. It had nothing to do with democracy or alleged infringement of consenus democracy.

It all had to do with you playing around with your video camera as a little child with new toy. And you have had that video for a very long time.

When the majority in the room said that they did not want the meeting to be recorded by you, you still went ahead and tried to video. Even your friends disowned your antics and find you embrassing. And I am one of them. I have on so many occasions defended you. No more.

And you claimed that you would be recording the truth. We are not all naive as to think that your editing wouldn't play any part in how you want your video to play on the net.

So stop it otherwise mummy and Daddy will have to take your toy away.

Honest Hoz

as they call people children much like the little children at school calling each other names... the is a problem with videoing in the alternative as there is always a small number of "conspiracy" minded people who feel that "they are out to get them" and in the majority of alt-meeting there are no clear guide lines to allow a consensus on the subject of openness/closeness, thus videoing is often banned. At the ESF there are clear principals that every one involved agrees with thus a real consensus is possible if people are interested in achieving one. At the beginning of the meeting I put to the chairs a good workable proposal about filming the meetings that would have clearly respected peoples need not to be filmed for whatever reason real or imagined.

The resulting bad tempered outcome later was a direct result of not dealing with the issue on the agenda as agreed with the chairs at the previous meeting and the beginning of this one.

The ESF is an open process - this is agreed by everyone involved thus filming, sound recording and photography, allowing for individuals preferences, is clearly allowed.

There is a problem that a minority of people do not want to be filmed and unless they are taking part in some key function in the process such as chairing or facilitating this preferences should of course be respected.

The very sensible solution is to have part of the room that is never filmed… then we have openness and respect for diversity of opinion. The minority who do not want to be filmed then clearly make themselves known and their views are respected.

The idea of closing the meeting to video, photo and audio recording is simply incompatible with the principals of the ESF. No argument on this one.

Hamish,

It is not about videoing or recording the ESF process. The majority, yes the majority, and yes the majority again, do not want you, yes you, to use your toy on them.

There is no discussion. What the majority, in fact nearly everyone, in Birmingham, said they did not want you to film. Your antics have permanently violated their trust in you.

Hamish, you are a nice individual. Fun and childish games are alright in the playground and in the common. But not in the ESF process. In fact you antics are stopping other media (not mainstream) but Indymedia from playing a role. There were people there from Brazil who wanted to record the event. But your behaviour mean't that they did not want to be associated with the event.

Repeat we, and repeat again I am your friend, I find what you are doing an embrassment.

So please put your toy away and play a constructive role in the ESF process, if you want to. And if you want to, it means giving up your toy and letting us, those who want to record the event do so. You are stopping the majority.

If you want to win your trust again with us, it means changing your behaviour. Once you do that then, may be, people might want to discuss the ESF process with you. And it is going to take a lot of trust building.

Who is this anonymous poster, with no email address, claiming to speak for "The majority, yes the majority, and yes the majority again"?

Is it some random heckler, or is it just one more example of SWP/GLA/union secrecy and lack of transparency in action?

Individuals like me interested in participating in the ESF can mail Hamish to discuss this, but I can't mail "Honest Hoz".

Leftist bureaucrats have been stopping the majority from participating from day one in the London ESF and earlier. If they want to win our trust again, it means changing their behaviour. Once they do that then, maybe, people might want to take notice of the ESF process. And it is going to take a lot of trust building.

Until then, it will remain a pointless talking shop for an irrelevant minority.

Honest Hoz or wotever is correct though. That Hamish makes demands at meetings like this, and then when people have stated clearly that no videoing should take place then goes ahead and tries to do it anyway in a covert way is just not on!

Hummm... dummm... dumer...

What is consensus, what are the principals of the WSF...

Best to think about these things (:

you currently don’t seam to have an option to tern off security for comments so this video may not upload - last time I try (: