Does anybody have a list of which MPs voted in favour of top-up fees? I was trying to find out from the Internet without success. At my uni there'll be campaigning against the 3 local Labour MPs if they voted in favour.

pir

We paid for your war with our education!
Bradley and Brown are New Labours Trojan horse's sent in to foster a channel for rebellion, only to betray them not only at the last minuet, but in a multiple strategy, first Bradley with his compromises, leading to agreement with the government, and then Browns devastating change of direction at the last minuet, all planned from the beginning, just look at the connections, pps to agriculture, voting record, Bradley's dissent in parliamentary history is minuscule.
Enough said, they are both a pair of scoundrels, who sold down the original ideas that are the inspiration for what we now call the Labour Movement, down the river!

My fury at the complete incompetence and cowardice of the Labour MPs (hardly news, to be fair) is not going to drive me to vote for RESPECT, which has been (thus far at least) run in a totally undemocratic and amateur way. At least the SWP are normally vaguely efficient...they don't seem to have even managed that with Respect, as yet.

I will be voting Green, because they have detailed policy which is debated and decided on by grassroots members, not a couple of people meeting in a small room. BUt I won't just be voting, because we all know that political parties can't give us what we really want; control over our own lives. I'll be working in my community to build a proper alternative based on democracy..._thats_ what this pathetic sham of a Parliament should really teach us.

Matt

The BBC has a list of all the Labour rebels up on its site. Presumably any Labour MP who isn't on the list voted for the bill.
news.bbc.co.uk

Give them hell - it's only what they deserve...

oh...there there, dont worry your pretty little head about it, or maybe you should? 9 000 is one less holiday or it means waiting a few years to get a new car. The trots will be happy that they now have a few more recruits, (untill they quit straight after uni). Is it the end of the world as we know it? - no. I find it ironic that when the students put something that is absolutly useless up it is kept in, but when i put something up that could save your little world from enviroment disastor it is removed. Household windturbines are by far the largest step forward for the saving of the planet from lack of energy resources that there has been in recent years.

Matt suggests that Respect makes decisions by gathering a handful of members in a small room. Actually, the crucial decisions last Sunday were made by votes of conference reflecting the wishes of almost 1,500 delegates.

I don't know that the internal democracy of the Green Party is as splendid as you make out.

On the other hand, why wouldn't the Greens assent to joining a broad left coalition, why did they immediately dismiss it out of hand? Just because, as they claimed, many of the policies looked Green.

At any rate, a split vote on the Left would be disastrous. Respect wants to avoid that. It's time for ALL parties on the Left to unite in a common electoral force.

who was it that said...

the futures dream is a shopping spree...?

was it Jonny Rotton...?

whatever happened to him?
I wonder!!!

it's all a sign of the times...

by my count
'the Russell group' were mentioned three times
in the debate...
hefty lobbyists by all accounts...
and Gillian Shepherd mentioned some think tank
and JP morgan [nazis] for some reason!!!
it was a bizzare day for sure...

the whole picture is slowly being brought together
bit by bit...

US style IVY league colleges...were mentioned...
what the f**k is Oxford or cambridge?
if they aren't elitist institutions...

the rhodes scholorship?

training future leaders in smiley faced Kissinger-esque genocide...

one day the only way to
heal ourselves, fix our stuff and teach our children
will be to do it ourselves...
is this what we should really be aspiring to ?

I mean, ...who really needs academia...?
do you really need to be in debt?
for those silly letters after your name?
and are they going to be worth anything...
if these fools are willing to gamble your future
and laugh it up, all the way...
as they mortgage your future as a bank account with interest...

mort=death
gage=measure

is our life forever in debt to those we thought we voted for...

The Russell Group of universities is an informal self-selected representative body from research-led institutions, so-called because meetings take place in the Russell Hotel.

University of Birmingham
University of Bristol
University of Cambridge
Cardiff University
University of Edinburgh
University of Glasgow
University of Leeds
University of Liverpool
University of Manchester
University of Newcastle upon Tyne
University of Nottingham
University of Oxford
University of Sheffield
University of Southampton
University of Warwick
Imperial College of Science, Technology & Medicine
King's College London
London School of Economics & Political Science
University College London

 http://www.hero.ac.uk/reference_resources/russell_group3706.cfm

The Russell Group of Universities is a self-selected group of large research-led British universities, with 18 of the 19 members being in the top 20 in terms of size of research funding. The group is often presented in the media as a kind of Ivy League, representing the interests of Britain's prestigious universities. However, unlike the Ivy League, all of the Russell Group universities are state-funded. The confusion of 'large' with 'prestigious' has also sometimes led to assumptions that some smaller universities, such as York, Durham and St Andrews are members, when they are not.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Group_of_Universities

Rather an odd argument that....the only way to avoid a split vote is to join RESPECT.
No consideration of the possibility that it might be the other way around, and that
RESPECT should look at joining the Greens, what with the 53 councillors, 2 MEPs, 3 GLA
members and a Deputy Mayor that they have....

Oh, sorry, RESPECT do have a dodgy Stalinist MP and 1 councillor in Preston, my mistake.

Sarcasm aside, it's precisely because the Greens do have a functioning and healthy
internal democracy that it is nearly impossible for them to stand aside in this short
amount of time. Candidates have already been selected, funds have been raised, party
political broadcasts are being arranged....to ask people to throw away all that hard
work (some Green parties have been working in their areas for decades to get where they
are now) so that George Galloway can become an MEP seems a little rich, to be honest.

I hope I am proved wrong about RESPECT...but with the record of the Socialist Alliance
to point to, I'll need a lot of convincing.

Matt

The Green Party has a distinguished history, and I am not dissing them.

But you must realize that there are 2 million Muslim voters in Britain, concentrated in urban constituencies where they seldom turn out in force to vote, and where with the rest of the Left, they can put progressive candidates over the top. Turn out in the European elections is always low, so that an organized highly-motivated voting bloc can punch above its weight. Muslim voters will not turn out for the Green Party. There is a chance that a sufficient number of them will vote with Respect.

I agree here with Lenin: Respect is the way for the antiwar and anti-New Labour community to vote. Sadly, Green Party people, if not Respect, then the tactical vote will usually be Lib Dem.

I'm not convinced that because there are a few (I stress, a few) Muslim leaders on
the Steering Committee of Respect, that this will translate to a Muslim vote of any
substantial nature. Leaders with rhetoric does not a voting bloc make. And the point still remains that Respect will be standing against
established MEPs with absolutely rock-solid peace credentials...if thats not a spoiling tactic what is? WHat gives George Galloway the right, for example, to move down from Scotland and stand against Jean Lambert MEP in London? Even more shocking is that Respect will probably stand against Caroline Lucas MEP...I can't think of a politician in Europe with better and more longstanding peace credentials than her. To challenge sitting anti-war MEPS is insanity, and will split the vote. A lot of people will remain loyal to Caroline, some will vote for Respect...and the UK Independence Party will get in. Great.

Matt

P.S. I apologise for randomly starting this debate on the newswire, when I normally have a go at people doing so...I just didn't want to let the 'vote for Respect' message go unchallenged. But I think I've made my point, so I'll leave it. :)

The Labour rebels on tuition fees

Here is a list of the 72 Labour MPs who voted against government plans for tuition fees:

Diane Abbott (Hackney North & Stoke Newington)
John Austin (Erith & Thamesmead)
Harry Barnes (Derbyshire North East)
Andrew Bennett (Denton & Reddish)
Roger Berry (Kingswood)
Harold Best (Leeds North West)
Colin Burgon (Elmet)
Martin Caton (Gower)
Michael Clapham (Barnsley West & Penistone)
Helen Clark (Peterborough)
Harry Cohen (Leyton & Wanstead)
Tony Colman (Putney)
Michael Connarty (Falkirk East)
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North)
Jim Cousins (Newcastle upon Tyne Central)
David Crausby (Bolton North East)
Jon Cruddas (Dagenham)
John Cryer (Hornchurch)
Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow)
Ian Davidson (Glasgow Pollok)
Denzil Davies (Llanelli)
Jim Dobbin (Heywood & Middleton)
Frank Dobson (Holborn & St Pancras)
Gwyneth Dunwoody (Crewe & Nantwich)
Bill Etherington (Sunderland North)
Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme)
Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent Central)
Paul Flynn (Newport West)
Neil Gerrard (Walthamstow)
Ian Gibson (Norwich North)
Roger Godsiff (Birmingham Sparkbrook & Small Heath)
John Grogan (Selby)
Dai Havard (Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney)
Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne North)
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North)
Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley)
Joan Humble (Blackpool North & Fleetwood)
Eric Illsley (Barnsley Central)
Glenda Jackson (Hampstead & Highgate)
Jon Owen Jones (Cardiff Central)
Lynne Jones (Birmingham Selly Oak)
Peter Kilfoyle (Liverpool Walton)
Terry Lewis (Worsley)
Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central)
Ian Lucas (Wrexham)
Iain Luke (Dundee East)
Mrs Christine McCafferty (Calder Valley)
John McDonnell (Hayes & Harlington)
Kevin McNamara (Hull North)
Alice Mahon (Halifax)
Robert Marris (Wolverhampton South West)
Jim Marshall (Leicester South)
Robert Marshall-Andrews (Medway)
Michael Meacher (Oldham West & Royton)
Julie Morgan (Cardiff North)
George Mudie (Leeds East)
Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
Gordon Prentice (Pendle)
Brian Sedgemore (Hackney South & Shoreditch)
Clare Short (Birmingham Ladywood)
Alan Simpson (Nottingham South)
Dennis Skinner (Bolsover)
Geraldine Smith (Morecambe & Lunesdale)
Llew Smith (Blaenau Gwent)
Gerry Steinberg (City of Durham)
Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East & Musselburgh)
Jon Trickett (Hemsworth)
Desmond Turner (Brighton Kemptown)
Rudi Vis (Finchley & Golders Green)
Robert Wareing (Liverpool West Derby)
Mike Wood (Batley & Spen)
The 19 Labour abstentions
Anne Campbell (Cambridge)
Robin Cook (Livingston),
Tom Cox (Tooting)
Ann Cryer (Keighley)
Valerie Davey (Bristol West)
Terry Davis (Birmingham Hodge Hill)
David Drew (Stroud)
Jeff Ennis (Barnsley East & Mexborough)
David Hinchliffe (Wakefield)
Dr Brian Iddon (Bolton South East)
Brian Jenkins (Tamworth)
Helen Jones (Warrington North)
David Lepper (Brighton Pavilion)
Alan Meale (Mansfield)
Malcolm Savidge (Aberdeen North)
George Stevenson (Stoke-on-Trent South)
Paul Truswell (Pudsey)
Alan Williams (Swansea West)
Jimmy Wray (Glasgow Baillieston).

Conservatives
One Conservative, Wantage MP Robert Jackson, voted with the government. Peter Duncan, the Galloway and Upper Nithsdale MP, abstained as a Scottish MP and Esher and Walton MP Ian Taylor also abstained.

Liberal Democrats
All the Lib Dem MPs voted against the government.

In fact the following Labour MPs abstained
The 19 Labour abstentions

Anne Campbell (Cambridge)

Robin Cook (Livingston),

Tom Cox (Tooting)

Ann Cryer (Keighley)

Valerie Davey (Bristol West)

Terry Davis (Birmingham Hodge Hill)

David Drew (Stroud)

Jeff Ennis (Barnsley East & Mexborough)

David Hinchliffe (Wakefield)

Dr Brian Iddon (Bolton South East)

Brian Jenkins (Tamworth)

Helen Jones (Warrington North)

David Lepper (Brighton Pavilion)

Alan Meale (Mansfield)

Malcolm Savidge (Aberdeen North)

George Stevenson (Stoke-on-Trent South)

Paul Truswell (Pudsey)

Alan Williams (Swansea West)

Jimmy Wray (Glasgow Baillieston).

Conservatives

One Conservative, Wantage MP Robert Jackson, voted with the government. Peter Duncan, the Galloway and Upper Nithsdale MP, abstained as a Scottish MP and Esher and Walton MP Ian Taylor also abstained.

Liberal Democrats

All the Lib Dem MPs voted against the government

FromBBC news page

i agree partly with matt. all credit to those involved for attempting to unite the left, but after hearing Galloway speak it appears that he is intent on uniting them on his terms. galloway is a good public speaker and after hearing him speak it is easy to become excited about the new utopia he is leading this country into. when the euphoria wears off however, you may come to realise that what he's saying is not all that different to what the left has been saying for years.
unforunately he is arrogant enough to assume that the green party must join him if they are truly a party of the left. for him to expect this is to completely misunderstand the green philosophy. has he read their manifesto? perhaps there is away forward. would galloway be humble enough to call it the GREEN RESPECT party? this would not only gain the majority of the green vote but it would retain most of those who would not otherwise vote green. unfortunately i fear that his ego will take over and he would rather sling mud than truly unite the left. i know there are many other people running this party but in honesty, who do you think is really calling the shots? galloway has gained more public exposure in the last year than pretty much the rest of the party combined and this gives him a lot of clout.
despite what i've said, i wish RESPECT the best of luck and hope that they can give this government the shock they deserve.

I don't think it's productive to pursue a Green Party vs RESPECT argument.

There may be a dilemma which way to vote for many in the Stop the War movement, but bear in mind there are millions more who might consider voting Green but are unlikely to be attracted to RESPECT, and vice versa.

And in any case, competing parties with similar agendas aren't necessarily competing over the same fixed amount of votes, they can win more voters to a worldview. How many anti-Europe parties have been able to effectively operate over the past few years without squeezing each other out?

What I'm saying is we don't need to row, Green Party + RESPECT can each continue meeting + organising, continue to work together in Stop the War, resist side-swiping, and both benefit electorally as a result.

 http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/ - keep and eye on which MP's vote what way here.

Just thought I'd better say.

"was it Jonny Rotton...?

whatever happened to him?"

Unfortunately I believe that he is currently taking part in "I'm a celebrity - get me out of here!"

VOTE BNP...

For free education and a BRIGHTER, WHITER, BRITAIN.

Charles, you sound like a brand of toothpaste,but then the BNP are just as toxic
as the corporate brands anyway. ( All that flouride and anti bacterial gunge)

I've heard that Caroline Lucas (Green MEP) is talking to RESPECT in relation to her
Euroseat. Presumably they may work together.
She only got in by the narrowest of margins last time round.

However,do we really want to keep going down the same old 'statist' road ?
Patriarchal/Capitalist parties all vying with each other to tell us what to think/do/say
and/or they know what's best for us (including the 57 varieties of 'leftist' parties).?
And just remember how the Greens behave in Germany whilst allied with Schroeder.

'bout time we tried anarchism and local self-management.

Students; organise self-education workshops on campus- get a campaign of non payment
of current debt going and/or send current 'bills' to T.Bliar etc for full cancellation.

Why should the tax payer that is you and me pay for other people to go to university so that they can then leave and get higher paid jobs that the rest of us? And by the way most students are right wing not left wing fanatics as they are some times made out to be by the media. Most students when they graduate and get jobs become Tory voters! So why not fuck em! Students are class traitors out to better themselves at the expense of everyone else. !

Oh and I suppose when you have a heart attack from too much empty workerist rhetoric you'll refuse to be treated by that student tosser doctor and will demand that a plumber comes and gives you a heart transplant instead.

Nobhead.

I wait to see what will become of Respect...can they really expect to make a go of it with a candidate in whom there is no trust?

If they do get a seat, though, I wonder whether they will stay true to the soundbites. Or will we see them in cosy SWP overcoats in the height of summer, pushing crap papers outside the Anarchist Bookfair?

'But you must realize that there are 2 million Muslim voters in Britain, concentrated in urban constituencies where they seldom turn out in force to vote... Muslim voters will not turn out for the Green Party'

since when did we judge people solely on their religion? i find the above comments offensive, Muslims are no more single-issue voters en masse than any religious/ethnic/linguistic group but rather individuals like everyone else who make their decisions on how to vote due to a number of factors. the votes of the 2 million Muslim voters can neither be guaranteed for 'respect' nor can they all be assumed out of the reach of the Green party.