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We are rapidly winning the argument against the war!

Duppy Conqueror | 20.02.2003 10:52

Harlequin- the dim would-be mole - has a post below about "losing the arguement": nothing could be further from the truth.

Harlequin- the dim would-be mole - has a post below about "losing the arguement": nothing could be further from the truth.

The BBC poll at the end of last week showed that close to 50% of the population opposed a war EVEN WITH a UN SEcurity Council resolution. 80%

As it happens, the UN route looks increaingly difficult, with France, Russia, China holding firm with their vetos, and with even the elected members showing surprising resiliance in the face of American bullying.

Blair's popularity has fallen through the floor, and New Labour is for the first time beginning to look shaky.

The "humanitarian" argument for war is so weak, that even Downing Street backtracked on it by Monday, with Blair only making a background appeal to it at the Tuesday press conference, mostly staking his luck on the original UN 1441 resolution.

Right now, you can bet that schemes are afoot to plant WMD evidence in Iraq for the weapons inspectors to find, but without Blix coming out with a denunciation of Hussein ((please stop calling him Saddam, thats his first name)) they wont be able to swing the UN, and that leaves Blair in shit.

Bush has a narrow poll majority in favour of attack without UN sanction, Blair has to face a growing revolt among Labour supporters. They may well grit their teeth and go ahead, but it won't be because they've won any arguments.

Duppy Conqueror

Comments

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That "revolt" we are waiting for...

20.02.2003 11:42

>>>>>

Where is the evidence of this?

There is more support for war in the Labour Party than there is within the Tories.

So far, there is only some noise of dissent.

Talk about moral cowardice!!!

Dump the poodle


we are winning, but there's more to do

20.02.2003 14:20

for a year or so now the establishment has been appealing to people's worst traits to justify their war. Fear, ignorance, bigotry, racism etc.
i.e saddam=terrorist=bin laden=dirty arab=kill, kill, kill!!

but that didn't work, since the massive anti-war demos they've shifted strategy. now every paper has got someone making a 'moral case', trying to appeal to people's consciences
i.e 'let's liberate the iraqis, peace protestors are all stalinists, what would they do to get rid of saddam? what would they do? what would they do? no, we won't publish an article by an anti war journo answering that question, we're just gonna keep repeating it.'

hk


Duppy hits nail on head

20.02.2003 19:00

I heard more sophisticated understanding of the reasons not to subject Iraq to aerial blitzkrieg/invasion/occupation from schoolchildren on the march than Harlequin offers. They are clear enough.

If there are difficult questions to be faced, it is by the warmongering clique in Downing Street and Washington. Will US/UK ministers and business people who assisted Saddam at the height of his atrocities be charged and tried by the International Criminal Court with abetting his undoubted crimes? If not, why? Why don't UN resolutions and international law apply to Israel? Why are we supporting Pakistan, a nuclear armed military dictatorship which seized power from an elected government and has strong links with al Quaida/Taliban? etc, etc, etc.

Past experience suggests we can rely on the corporate media not to ask these questions or address the glaring hypocricies our "leaders" display. The degenerate behaviour of our allies will also be overlooked - so no reference to the atrocities inflicted on the Kurds by Turkey, or the sham trials and public beheadings in Saudi Arabia, or the British citizens detained and tortured in Egypt.

As for opposition to war within Labour, I think it's very strong, both among MPs and party members. Whether it will be sufficient to change the policy of Blair is, sadly, another matter.

Auntie Beeb


No we are not winning!

20.02.2003 19:15

I base my conclusion not on opinion polls but on personal conversations with people both in the real world and on the internet and I have come across a majority in favour of the war not against although those in favour say they are against war but can see no other way of dealing with Saddam.

The website forum link below is an example of what I mean. And we need good solid arguments on things like how to deal with Saddam's regime not lame excuses which is all the arguments against war seem to be made up of. We need to be able to counter all pro war arguments with our own well thought out alternatives to war. Peter Tachell is the only one in the anti-war movement so far to have attempted this and come up with a credible argument against war with an alternative to the problem of what to do with Saddam!

Harlequin
- Homepage: http://www.thesite.org.uk/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=87


Just say NOoooooooo...........

20.02.2003 19:25

Who gave BLAIR the god-given right to plunge this country and our son's into another foreign war of aggression, because he thinks it's the "humane" thing to do? This efete Fabian mass-murderer doesn't rule over me, or you - he's a nothing, a nobody, fuck his phoney party politics.

Pansy Potter


Incapable

20.02.2003 20:21

Harlequin is unable to make any decision - his head is a mess. Stop wasting our time arsehole!

andyC


Incapable

20.02.2003 20:27

Harlequin is unable to make any decision - his head is a mess. Stop wasting our time arsehole!

andyC


Teenage site

20.02.2003 20:44

Harlequin, that site you referred to is mainly for kids and teenagers, and exists primarily to address issues that concern them. When I visted that site in November 2001, about 90% of them supported war against Afghanistan even though that country had nothing to do with the attacks on America, they just couldn't get it through their heads, they simply don't understand.

Stuey
mail e-mail: stuey@surfanytime.co.uk
- Homepage: users.surfanytime.co.uk/stuey


Get with the story...

21.02.2003 03:07

This story is getting a bit tired. Why worry about the Iraq Crisis when there is the Tony Blair Crisis to resolve? Why march and protest about something that should not happen? Why avoid talking about what is important any longer? With 9/11 big government lied - the Arabs had nothing to do with it. It was 'only an arms trade protest' and everything to do with the DSEi arms-trade fair that opened at exactly the same time in London docklands. The media reported the big lie as verbatim truth and most of the populace were hoodwinked. Openly talking about this issue outside of 'govt./media' is the way forward - nobody can lock you up for talking the truth.
The Afghan issue is quite a problem for the 'coalition' that prosecuted T.W.A.T. on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. Most criminals get dealt with according to crimes already made not for new ones that may or may not happen. The same applies to the Tony and George show. They are the criminals and the crime that they dragged us through was one of GENOCIDE - a crime against all humanity. GENOCIDE is easy to look up for a dictionary definition and easily understandable. In the Afghan campaign the minority Arab population were exterminated - not really a 'just' war no matter how indoctrinated one is regarding the 'Taliban being evil'. The real evil is at home, with Tony and George, and their criminal clique knew in advance about September 11. They deliberately lied about it in order to get their war - costing you the taxpayer something like $40 billion - and all profits to them.
There is no point worrying about the Iraq crisis - the issue is the 'Tony and George Crisis'. Sodom is only a distraction so don't fall for it - openly talk about 9/11 and the arms trade fair that went on at the same time. This is the issue to put first.

Beast 1441


ah well

21.02.2003 11:41

Has it occurred to anyone else that Harlequin is most likely a confused 13-year-old kid, new to all these ideas and arguments and switching radically between positions from day to day, just like most of us did when we were 13?

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