SWP And Their Support For Homophobic Murders
Emma | 19.02.2003 09:09
Check out the final expose of the SWP's Nazi attitude to gays:
http://www.redaction.org/forum/showthread.php?s=a6c51e31fd7b57
8be57743a8d71b237f&threadid=427
http://www.redaction.org/forum/showthread.php?s=a6c51e31fd7b57
8be57743a8d71b237f&threadid=427
Lifted from RA discussion page! (for real!!)
SWP and BAM
"The Socialist Workers Party, which dominates the [Anti-war] alliance, was happy to cohost the march with the reactionary British Association of Muslims. The association had blotted its copybook by circulating a newspaper which explained that apostasy from Islam is 'an offence punishable by death'. But what the hell. In the interests of multi-culturalism, the SWP ignored the protests of squeamish lefties and let that pass. The Trots aren't Islamophobes, after all."
Nick Cohen - 16.2.03 - in the Observer (full article available on Guardian Unlimited website)
Mon 17th Feb 2003
From the British association of Muslims website...................
"We are British - we hold that, as the British are a mixture of races owing allegiance to the Crown, being British is not an ethnic but a cultural orientation and committment with concommittant duties, responsibilities, rights and privileges, and does not in any significant way necessarily conflict with being a Muslim, and further that being British in this way will of its very nature include people of immigrant origin;"
So were a mix of races owing alleigence to the crown?
The web says they will........
"work towards the appointment of a new incumbent to the position of Shaykhu-l Islam of the British Isles (officially established by HM the Queen-Empress Queen Victoria and the Caliph, HIM Sultan Abdul Hamid II [jannat makan]) to work with the Chief Rabbi and the Heads of the various Christian Denominations in the Kingdom. "
This bits on a newsletter on the websire dealng with the subject of homosexuality, the SWP shoulda sone a search on google, surprising what you turn up, here is a small bit of the very lenthy article...............
"We as Muslims need to state unequivocally and unambiguously that homosexuality is a deviant behavior and that there is not even an iota of doubt that Islam condemns the behavior."
OOppss, there go the Gay vote!
And more rhetoric...........
"If the homosexuals can promote their wrong values with vigor and succeed, we have a duty and a responsibility to not only make an effort to arrest this trend, but also to invest our time, energy, and resources to promote the divine values with as much zeal. Our challenge is to explore and find ways to resist and counter this movement amongst our own families, immediate community, the Muslim Ummah, and the whole of humanity. This is our destiny and the challenge of the times we live in. Action more than rhetoric will make us worthy of Allah's (subhanahu wa ta'ala) Help and Mercy and will endear us to Him. The question is what are you, and in turn all of us collectively, going to do to promote our values, and counter this threat? "
Check that article here....................
http://members.tripod.com/~british_muslims_assn/homosexuality.html
Let the SWP explain to all the Gays about their new found freinds.
The BNP would get along with these blokes.
Should make for a good post this one
Tue 18th Feb 2003
Frank
SWP/MAB
No surprises there then!
During the bombing of Serbia the SWP were happy to march arm in arm with neo-Fascist Serb Chetniks who openly called for the death of the Muslim Kosovars..perhaps someone should tell the SWP's new muslim chums about that??
So much for the SWP's secular/antisexist/antihomophobic principles..let alone what muslim countries do to their 'own' working class..especially to socialists!
The SWP...what a joke!
Tue 18th Feb 2003
Thomas Koner
To quote lenin the swp see the bam as "useful idiots".
The swp would ally it self a used condom if it thought it would further "the cause".
Tue 18th Feb 2003
Peer Gynt
"Hypocracy is the vice which pays homage to virtue."
SWP think its OK to murder people, but attrocious for British people to oppose it? (Which is what they seem to funnel most of their pathetic effort into)
SWP and BAM
"The Socialist Workers Party, which dominates the [Anti-war] alliance, was happy to cohost the march with the reactionary British Association of Muslims. The association had blotted its copybook by circulating a newspaper which explained that apostasy from Islam is 'an offence punishable by death'. But what the hell. In the interests of multi-culturalism, the SWP ignored the protests of squeamish lefties and let that pass. The Trots aren't Islamophobes, after all."
Nick Cohen - 16.2.03 - in the Observer (full article available on Guardian Unlimited website)
Mon 17th Feb 2003
From the British association of Muslims website...................
"We are British - we hold that, as the British are a mixture of races owing allegiance to the Crown, being British is not an ethnic but a cultural orientation and committment with concommittant duties, responsibilities, rights and privileges, and does not in any significant way necessarily conflict with being a Muslim, and further that being British in this way will of its very nature include people of immigrant origin;"
So were a mix of races owing alleigence to the crown?
The web says they will........
"work towards the appointment of a new incumbent to the position of Shaykhu-l Islam of the British Isles (officially established by HM the Queen-Empress Queen Victoria and the Caliph, HIM Sultan Abdul Hamid II [jannat makan]) to work with the Chief Rabbi and the Heads of the various Christian Denominations in the Kingdom. "
This bits on a newsletter on the websire dealng with the subject of homosexuality, the SWP shoulda sone a search on google, surprising what you turn up, here is a small bit of the very lenthy article...............
"We as Muslims need to state unequivocally and unambiguously that homosexuality is a deviant behavior and that there is not even an iota of doubt that Islam condemns the behavior."
OOppss, there go the Gay vote!
And more rhetoric...........
"If the homosexuals can promote their wrong values with vigor and succeed, we have a duty and a responsibility to not only make an effort to arrest this trend, but also to invest our time, energy, and resources to promote the divine values with as much zeal. Our challenge is to explore and find ways to resist and counter this movement amongst our own families, immediate community, the Muslim Ummah, and the whole of humanity. This is our destiny and the challenge of the times we live in. Action more than rhetoric will make us worthy of Allah's (subhanahu wa ta'ala) Help and Mercy and will endear us to Him. The question is what are you, and in turn all of us collectively, going to do to promote our values, and counter this threat? "
Check that article here....................
http://members.tripod.com/~british_muslims_assn/homosexuality.html
Let the SWP explain to all the Gays about their new found freinds.
The BNP would get along with these blokes.
Should make for a good post this one
Tue 18th Feb 2003
Frank
SWP/MAB
No surprises there then!
During the bombing of Serbia the SWP were happy to march arm in arm with neo-Fascist Serb Chetniks who openly called for the death of the Muslim Kosovars..perhaps someone should tell the SWP's new muslim chums about that??
So much for the SWP's secular/antisexist/antihomophobic principles..let alone what muslim countries do to their 'own' working class..especially to socialists!
The SWP...what a joke!
Tue 18th Feb 2003
Thomas Koner
To quote lenin the swp see the bam as "useful idiots".
The swp would ally it self a used condom if it thought it would further "the cause".
Tue 18th Feb 2003
Peer Gynt
"Hypocracy is the vice which pays homage to virtue."
SWP think its OK to murder people, but attrocious for British people to oppose it? (Which is what they seem to funnel most of their pathetic effort into)
Emma
Comments
Hide the following 28 comments
I wish MI5/Special Branch would stop .....
19.02.2003 10:00
showing us how desperate they are.
Insult Insult Aggression Suspicion Distrust Anger
this is what they want to propagate
The would love to see Peter Thatchell (is that his name?) announcing 'War on Islam: Lets Free the World of Homophobes'
Or, Germaine Greer saying, Muslims oppress women, let's kill some of em
But I don't think its going to happen.
When you have a war planned, in which the military planners themselves estimate the destruction of a city and the deaths of at the very least tens of thousands and probably hundreds of thousands of people (I count Iraqi soldiers in the category "people"), I think most people have their priorities straight.
To put it another way, we consider that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and Blair/Straw/Hoon are a more significant threat to world peace and justice than a few trots in the SWP
Epimenedes
MAB
19.02.2003 10:42
Singling out the SWP is typical of rift-making MI5 or fash.
The MAB is the biggest Muslim organisation in the UK, are you saying all Muslims are homophobic scum? If so, you probably aren't too bothered if they are bombed to oblivion in Baghdad?
Marxist_Mike
What??
19.02.2003 11:36
Linda Snell
How low can you go
19.02.2003 11:48
Brian
blah blah blah SWP/MAB blah blah
19.02.2003 12:28
blah
Remember the working class anyone?
19.02.2003 14:26
Should socialists march with a bitterly homophobic and sexist organisation like MAB? Yet you wouldnt with the BNP? You would have Labour supporters on the platform?
Who knows? The antiwar campaign may make some headway on the 'civil society in revolt' (for which read middle class lead) ticket but as far as anything else is concerned the engagement with the working class amounts to a few Trade union resolutions here, a paper affiliation there...
By the way getting into an arguement with Red Action is definetly not recommended..seeing them dish it out once was enough for me.
Guy
solution
19.02.2003 14:48
Join the SWP!
Smash all islamophobes!
Shaun
oh what a giveaway!
19.02.2003 15:05
'middle class scumbags'
I'm sure I've heard that sort of language somewhere before..
awake
Who are you to tell me what I shouldn't do
19.02.2003 15:15
If I want to go on a march against it then i'll go on a march against it.
Yes I find the views of the British Association of Muslims on homosexuality objectionable.(If that is truly their view).This doesn't mean i'm prepared to sit around around whilst children in Iraq die needlessly.
Yes i'm in the SWP
No i'm not "a Middle Class Scumbag"
Oh... and by the way I'm a Lesbian
Claire the Librarian
Claire the Librarian
Beware then!
19.02.2003 15:37
Jim Chops
Dear Jim Chops
19.02.2003 16:14
I am awake!
I have read the article-yes it's offensive-what it doesn't do is explicitly call for Gay people to be killed.
Therefore your question "how does it feel?" makes no sense
Claire the Librarian
Claire the Librarian
Why is this a surprise?
19.02.2003 16:40
It is an Iron Age sky god religion, the same as Judaism and Christianity, and like them it is based on an ancient and very out of date book - a guide to life in the Iron Age with added bollocks, if you will.
Pork and shellfish bad? 'Cos there was no refrigeration and food poisoning was a huge danger. Don't like gays? The Koran was written in, like, The Olden Days, when homophobia was pretty much the norm, probably due to fears amongst the primitive tribes that they could die out if too much same-sex fucking went on.
Therefore anyone who subscribes to one of the Big Three religions is bound to subscribe to the unreasonable tenets formed over 1,000 years ago.
All sky god religion is fucking stupid and irrational, so why bother singling out Islam? Pointless or what.
Soz, comrades but we do need to support Muslims as far as it goes to ensure that gullible people do not go along with Christian Mullahs such as Bush and Blair and set out on some half-arsed 21st Century attempt to fight the crusades all over again.
I have many differences with the SWP but at least they understand (in theory sadly, rather than practice) that one has to work with the unprogressive in order to transform them into the progressive.
Mad Monk
you are all traitors!
19.02.2003 17:02
Don't you know that fraternising with SWP (red fascists) and/or Muslims (IslamoNazis) is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN!
They might infect you with funny ideas and strange ways of talking, or even kid you into thinking that they're people with ideas, rather than MINDLESS AUTOMATA created in the SWP's vast secret underground base in Lewisham!
Unity is weakness! Fight everyone! Fight each other!
a nonny mouse
Need to put things in some order
19.02.2003 19:27
That wild Thames House Possee - they get an Oxbridge education but they're still not the brigthest candles on the altar are they?
lrmstrdl
People - is this point scoring or for real?
20.02.2003 02:45
meslf I'm a gay anarchist man of Irish heritage who in me 15 years living in London has had many Moslem male lovers of long standing
how I manage the contradictions ( and there are many under capitalism) is by relating to people directly and by being out (being true) about myself - I understand that because of community pressures not everybody can easily come out - this happens in Muslim, Christian, Hindu & Jewish communities
historically I don't believe the institutional left has really understood queers and our perspectives
I think by not mentioning homophobia STWC are reproducing the Hetrosexist format of yer average leftist organisations- its easy for them
I think for those of us that identify as anti-capitalist queers we cannot depend on the leftists to support us - we need to organise autonomously
Check out
http://www.queeruption.com/queeruptionV/2003.htm
love
g
gayboy
Homepage: http://www.queeruption.com/queeruptionV/2003.htm
Funny How Gay Rights Dont Matter To The Left!
20.02.2003 08:57
Bov Ril
but that's NOT from the MAB!
20.02.2003 10:15
Follow the link in the original article and you'll see it's from a group caling themselves the 'Association of British Muslims'. That's NOT the Muslim Association of Britain!
The MAB are the largest organisation of Muslims in the UK, representing a diverse range of views and mobilising hundreds of thousands alongside us in the movement against war and racism. They don't endorse or excuse homophobia.
The ABM, on the other hand, I've never heard of, come across, or met a member of. Is it even a real group?
This sort of thing is going to happen a lot from now on. The powerful are scared of the global movement against war and racism, and they'll be desparate to split us. Convincing gay people that Muslims are our enemies is just another lie, the old divide-and-rule tactic.
kurious oranj
Dear Bovril
20.02.2003 10:29
A few points:
When in the article have the MAB" promised to murder gays?".
No the SWP doesn't support homophobic organisations.On the other hand what it won't do is refuse to march alongside them to prevent wars.Sometimes the fight for equality important though it is,needs to take a back seat to
more urgent issues(i.e:the war).
I've been forced out of jobs,lost friends and been spat at by passers by-that's Homophobia.How the SWP are behaving around this issue isn't.
"Stay the hell away from us or else"(quote) or else what?.
Shalom
Claire the Librarian
Claire the Librarian
Hypocrite
20.02.2003 10:30
Bov Ril
Thanks!
20.02.2003 11:23
Glad to know that it's the SWP and Muslins who are the real problem, I can go back to buying the Daily Mail now!
Sonic
So Homophobia Is Ok Then Sonic?
20.02.2003 11:37
So you have no problem with the homophobia of the State/BNP/MAB/SWP etc etc..can I ask all you women haters why you protest against one form of violence (war) whilst supporting the violence against women in islamic countries (and presumably the West too)? Claire: you are a disgrace to us women who are actually fighting sexism rather than dong what the Male Left tells us to do.
Emma
Dear Emma
20.02.2003 12:15
Claire: you are a disgrace to us women who are actually fighting sexism rather than dong what the Male Left tells us to do.(quote)
As I said earlier:if I want to go on a march i'll go on a march.
It's not the male left trying to tell me what to do it's you.You've never met me so who are you to tell me that i'm not fighting sexism!.
Claire the Librarian
Claire the Librarian
God I hate identity politics
20.02.2003 12:33
Fuckin' identity politics - people who cling to the only thing that they think makes them 'special' (ie the colour of their skin, their gender, or whoever they like to fuck), and then live bitter little lives HATING everyone else and feeling such a poor ickle victim.
Calm down and get to know some people who are actually DIFFERENT from yourselves, rather than hiving yourselves off into shitty political ghettoes.
Claire - you go girl! March wherever you like and with whoever you like. You speak for far more gay and lezza people than the previous Mr and Ms Angry brigade.
Cheez, I'm surprised that you lot don't all have heart attacks from walking around so fucking uptight all the time.
When Emma capitalises idiotic rad-fem buzzwords like The Male Left, it really gets on my (metaphorical) tits.
Yeah that's right; all of us men hate all of you women (wimmin?), we are biologically evil, just like the Jews, Arabs, WASPs, blacks, Asians etc etc etc, according to some. And we sit around all day discussing how best to oppress you and how to start wars whilst drinking lager and eating too much red meat.
The only war worth fighting is the class war!
Phallus E
SWP=Sh*ts on Working People
20.02.2003 12:35
Bov Ril
er
20.02.2003 13:02
So the Government, the BNP the Muslim association of Britain and the SWP are one organisation.
You really lost it there.
Its a pity some people are more interested in fighting other parts of the left than fighting against the war, it really does make me doubt your motives.
We are trying to build a united anti-war movement, whats your problem with that?
sonic
fair's fair
20.02.2003 13:41
There are groups who defend Mugabe as 'anti-imperialist' (my arse) but the SWP aren't one of them.
-
All Homophobes 2gther huh?
20.02.2003 14:17
The swp have *not* defended their ISO people in Zim! You ask thoseISOers what 'support' they have had...zilch!
Why? cos dem white folk are de devils..you middle class liberals make me sick
Bov Ril
Your just making it up now
20.02.2003 15:26
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=socialist+worker+zimbabwe
Is there any lie you are not willing to use to pollute this debate?
Sonic