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Why we don't need the police (pigs)

Pigsty | 04.01.2003 01:18

A small article on why we don't need pigs to "police" our society, the only one that needs a force to "enforce" order is an authoritarian one.

People seem to take it as fact that we need a special force to ensure that we don't slip into some kind of nightmare where the vulnerable are completely unprotected from the ravages of "bad people" and "scum". This logic is of course the mainstream, spread by all the press and system governments. It ignores the fact that crime is caused by poverty and that capitalism causes this!

If we lived in an equal society, there would be very little in the way of crime, if we lived in a truly anarchic society with control devolved to a the lowest level, with equal wealth sharing, and values that were about people instead of about fucking people over to "get to the top of the heap", we wouldn't need an oppressive force of fascist pigs. Capitalism is what causes crime with its obsession with individual wealth, and individual gratification at any cost, even that is human lives.

Think about it though, even if you can't see what's wrong with the system, there is definitely something wrong with the whole idea of the police. Firstly, they enforce laws that aren't just about protecting people, but about keeping the status quo, they are anti-revolutionary and against working class people improving their status or striving for an equal world. They are in the pay of the establishment "pillars of society" and middle class poodles, a paid force to protect their property and wealth and keep it from others, and hunt down anyone who dares challenge them.

Police are utterly mercenary, they are working class traitors and middle class pretenders, selling themselves to the state to act as guard dogs. They'd arrest their own friends for robbing a fat rich banker, because thats what they're paid to do.

They are 85% male, and 98% white, when the rest of society is 50:50 male:female and in places like London, ethnic minorities account for 40% of the population, yet the police who "enforce the law" in these communities are still all white.

If anyone thinks they police by consent they need to wake-up to the facts, they are an armed (with sticks, batons, teargas, pepper spray, baton guns and some carry machine guns) force on the streets determined to enforce the will of the state. So much for consent!!

Does anyone tink if the people in Haringey decided they didnt want armed heavies mobs on the streets, that the police would remove them?!

They talk about getting more women and black people in, but most of them leave when they realise that despite all the propaganda the police really are a vicious gang of white male macho racists who beat-up black people, asian people, muslims, socialists, protestors, homeless people, anti-racists and women. Ethnic minority recruits get a barrage of racist jokes and insults, some have even been assaulted. Female recruits are sexually harassed and assaulted. This is excused as "just a bit of fun". This sort of thing is fun for racist/sexist pigs that have killed so many black people by shooting them or beating them to death or suffocating them in custody --- and they are supposed to protect people??

Cops are just weirdos who like guns, weapons, and tesosterone trips. We're better off without them!

Pigsty

Comments

Hide the following 22 comments

absolute rubbish

04.01.2003 01:56

What junk is this?

It's hilarious if it's a joke!

Do you honestly think that it'd be all rosey and nice if the police were removed? It'd be a cesspool of crime because people aren't all "born good", what about crimes like rape, is capitalism responsible for those too? What about paedophilia? People are fundamentally self-interested, and crime will always be here. What do you suggest people do to stop this or punish it?

As for your spurious statistics and allegations, can you provide a source? Didn't think so.

Why don't you try offering alternatives instead of inane left-wing rants.

Blitzpatrol


response (yes it's generic but hey)

04.01.2003 02:52

yes the idea of anarchic society is a utopian one (and lets not get into a discusion on the nature of utopianism, i refer here to the idea of a place both perfect and non-existant, a reference to Moore's original definition not any subsequent revisionist interpretations) but i think that the point being raised here is one that the above respondant has missed. yes, it would be nice if people could defy their human istincts, but, the reverse of this is the idea that it is the inane greed of unmodulated capitalism that creates the desire for power among the un-empowered that leads to rape in the first place; the 'top of the heap' mentality refered to. lets not forget that serial killers (to name but one example) have tended to come from modern, capitalist societies (please correct me if i'm wrong here) and that rape is an act of oppresion (by which i mean a seizure of power over someone forced into a submissive position) not a sexual one. whether this classifies rape as capitalist (a seizure of the 'sexual capital?) is another debatable point.
let us not forget that capital has never only meant money, as anarchy does not mean a state without police or government.

treat marlowe


You'd be enslaved within a month, you moron.

04.01.2003 04:51

I understand how valuable and sweet are the innocence and idealism of youth.

But this particular person needs to start the growing up process if he is going to promulgate his views to others.

In any natural, animal community which we can possibly compare to ours, peace and harmony is only achieved by the establishment (after initial testing conflict, often of a semi-ritual nature) of a pretty rigid PECKING ORDER.

The law is simple. Anyone lower in the pecking order must submit to the will of anyone higher.

Peace and harmony. But at what a price.

Abandon the police and law. The testing conflicts would last five or ten years, with very large loss of life, before the local war-lords established themselves and some sort of equilibrium developed.

You and I would have been virtually enslaved in the first week. And God help you if you have a pretty wife or daughter (even down to the age of eight if you're unlucky).

Why oh why do these babies pretend things are already as they dream they might be, instead of seeing things as they are, and trying to set up the rules to enhance the fairness, justice and freedom which we need.

You're very sweet, my little one, but I think its time to realise just who the tooth fairy really is.

Ain't he sweet ?


Comprimiseses

04.01.2003 13:40

I think we could all agree to abolish 'The Bill', this is a tired televisual format that must be put to rest, Holby City is much better.

Dave


Thanks

04.01.2003 14:11

Thank you 'Dave' for your comment - at last a voice of reason in the wilderness...

Paul Edwards


Let's all bare back.

04.01.2003 14:57

Paul,
Only to pleased to be of help,
Can anyone tell me,
Where is Sting at the moment?
Has eloped to the rain forest for oddles of tantrics?

Dave


Peace at Last

04.01.2003 15:24

Pigsty is absolutely right. Capitalism foments crime and criminalizes the poor to fill the prisons. The Bastions of society ARE the criminals! In an Anarchic system no-one could break the law, because there would be none, just caring and sharing, hence no need for pigs on a power trip.

Destiny


If only this was a perfect society

04.01.2003 16:28

If everything was perfect, there would be no crime and therefore no need for people to uphold the law. However this is far from a perfect society, and without certain rules in a society, anarchist or otherwise, there will be the potential for people to go and do whatever they want, without any regard for the greater community.

I know that there is something very wrong in the way the current system is run, and the police usually always act to perserve that systems, by whatever means necessary.

However it would be impossible to have a decent society without laws or rules, or people willing to uphold them (and I do not mean vigilanties), because there will always be a few selfish individuals who will exploit the lack of rules and committ acts against the community for their own personal gain.

Thomas J


Back in the real world . . .

04.01.2003 17:44

We shouldn't let the fundamentally utopian ideas behind this article get in the way of one essential truth - THE MAJORITY OF CRIMES IN THE WORLD ARE COMMITTED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS AGAINST THEIR OWN CITIZENS.

Let us look at some examples. In Bosnia there was a three-way civil war that was encouraged and armed by the local bigwigs under the guise of nationalist rhetoric. Total casualties - 250,000. In neighbouring Albania, they had an anti-capitalist revolution to get rid of all the bosses. All the police ran away and the guns fell into the hands of ordinary Albanians. Some people decided to get in some target practise, but by the time Italian troops had been sent in to "restore order" there were only 300 dead (about half of these were killed by accident).

It is true that criminal gangs took advantage of the situation in Albania to rob banks and kill some of their "business rivals". We would not want this happening in a future anti-capitalist society. However the death toll pales into insignificance when compared to the daily toll brought about by global capitalism.

Not all police forces are the same. No one in their right mind would compare the cops in Denmark (for example) with those of Colombia. But underneath the surface, capitalism will ALWAYS kill to ensure its survival. So the question is not whether to enforce the law (or even whether to have laws) but HOW we do it. Remember that in Christiania (a famous anarchist squat in Copenhagen) they have laws - for example, no guns or hard drugs. Let's learn by practical example rather than by ideology.

Anarchist Rioter


Christiana and guns

04.01.2003 19:30

AR

Please explain how the inhabitants of Christiana would respond to three guys who turn up with guns and start ordering them around. And don't please insult our intelligence by saying it couldn't happen.

Surely all it would need would be for them to rape two of the women, and the attitudes of Christiana would be entirely transformed.

The only reason I don't have a gun is because I can call on the police. And because they'll clobber me if they catch me with it. Both reasons equally.

Please educate me if I have this wrong.

Christiana ? Guns ? Rape ?

Ain't he sweet ?


police song

04.01.2003 21:17

all together now:

Higgledy Piggledy,
Higgledy piggledy,
Higgledy piggledy,
Piggledy pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

Higgledy Piggledy,
Higgledy piggledy,
Higgledy piggledy,
Piggledy pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

good jack cade


Police

05.01.2003 00:28

If you dont like the fact that the police service is made up of 85% of men and 95% white, then why dont YOU join and make a difference. In a world where people like YOU slag others off for being bigots, for stereotyping and for not being at one with the community, your comments and attitudes are themselves stereotypical and bigotted. This makes YOU the hypocrite. Do you actually know any police officers? Do you think that because they dress a certain way that they are not human, not equal, not entitled to the same rights? YOU ARE THE FASCIST BIGOT. Deny that.....!!!!!

Mark


What a load of rubbish!

05.01.2003 01:57

Once again the British left has proven it´s ignorance and IMC has proven how full of right wing wankers it is. Go back to your student bars and comb your dreads and back to your Skrewdriver records. Fuck you all.

Bomb Saddam. Bomb IMC UK. Die Fascist Scum.

julie


response to mark

05.01.2003 02:03

"Why don't YOU join the police and make a difference?"

Join the BNP and "make a difference..."
Join Mossad and make a difference
Join the Mafia
join the bastard Nazi Party and make a difference
join Stalin and make a difference

twat.











Higgledy Piggledy,
Higgledy-piggledy,
Higgledy-piggledy,
Piggledy-pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

Higgledy Piggledy,Higgledy Piggledy,
Higgledy piggledy,
Higgledy piggledy,
Piggledy pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

Higgledy-Piggledy,
Higgledy-piggledy,
Higgledy-piggledy,
Piggledy-pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.
Higgledy piggledy,
Higgledy piggledy,
Piggledy pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

Ig, pig-pig-pig
Pig,
Piggedy-pig.

jack cade cunt


Julie, I love how confused you are!

05.01.2003 04:25

The British left is fascist! Who's the cutest girl on uk imc, Julie? Who's the cutest?

F@C@


Intelligent remarks...

05.01.2003 16:46

There seems to be an attitude among many respondents that the police are somehow a social neccesity or a natural extension of human interaction. Thomas J for instance claims that "it would be impossible to have a decent society without laws or rules, or people willing to uphold them." This seems common sense to most of us brought up in a capitalist society such as our own, however it is not as it initially seems.

The police force is a relatively recent institution and specific to societies basing themselves on western ideas. None of the 'primitive' societies we know of had such institutions and few of them had systems we would recognise as 'law'. Most do have conflict resolution systems, but these vary widely, varying according to the needs of the society.

It would be entirely possible for a society to exist without police or 'law' and indeed may do and have. It does not follow from this, however, that we would neccesarily be constantly at each others' throats. Clearly what anarchism must present is an alternative way in which conflicts could be resolved. The failure to conceive of and present such a system is one of the great faults in anarchism (otherwise the most promising of the various ideologies I am aware of).

Disillusioned kid


Well F@C@ can´t even take part in a debate...

05.01.2003 20:01

Did I call the british left fascist? No (though they do have tendancies)I called them ignorant of left-wing ideology and concepts. I then pointed out that UK IMC and its visitors are too tolerant to fascist opinions posted on this site (whether BNP/skinhed scene, the liberal do-gooders or the conspiracy theory Jew haters). This criticism of almost all IMC´S is widespread and the problem is getting worse. At least Disillusioned Kid is here to save the day!

What do you define as "cute" then F@C@, you f@ckwit? Would you say that to a guy? or it just my gender which earns me my "barbie doll" status? Very revolutionary...

So F@C@ are you a baccy rolling or a Skrewdriver listening MEMBER?

Join the SWP Student Society.... and make a difference.

julie
mail e-mail: F@C@@wankstain.com


Anti police lunacy will end in your demise

06.01.2003 01:25

All those anti police lunatics on here... heres some advise... you best be able to defend yourself, food and shelter and defenceless kids/old people if society did collapse, because without the police, you'd be prey to the gangs of savages that would see you as easy pickings... kill you for your food, rape any women or child that didnt consent, and piss on all that is decent.
The only way you could prevent this would be to create your own militias that would guard the farming/trade communities.... so essentially police then eh????

you clearly havent thought about the consequences of anarchistic society.

marksman501


No one likes the police

06.01.2003 14:08


In a capitalist society, when most people think of crime, they do not think of the acts themselves so much as they do an imaginary 'criminal class' that commits them.

It's always these few 'scumbags' that commit violent crimes and that have to be brought under control, so the story goes. The criminal in capitalism is defined not so much by their specific unlawful acts, but the lifestyle s/he leads : gangsta, junky, dealer, thug, whore, burgler.

The criminal exists before the crime is even commited; a criminal's prison record is merely a badge that recognizes him/her for doing what is expected. This is one reason why white rich people rarely go to jail: The rich and the White are not defined as 'criminals' in this society, when they break the law they get a lesser punishment, or none at all.

Prison isn't a place to keep the 'bad apples' from spoiling the rest of us. It is for the social control of the entire population- good and bad apples alike. Capitalism requires a politically obedient population that can be put to work making profits for the weathly. Prisons ensure this politically docile and economically useful population.

Prisons are useful for the powers that be; they are only a problem for those locked inside them, their loved ones, and those who want a free society.

Prisons are not just the storehouse of this criminal class- they produce criminality by concentrating otherwise decent people into a cramped, crowded and oppressive environment.
In prison, an individual is subject to isolation, confinement in control unit, violence, torture, gang activity, guard brutality, forced labour and a life of boredom. When and if they get released, s/he is often condemned to a life of poverty and run-ins with the law. Prisoners have difficult time getting a job, obtaining credit, getting college funds. By sticking people in prison, the system condemns them to a life of poverty and stigmatises them as lifetime members of the criminal class.

The notion that crime, the 'criminal personality,' and imprisonment naturally go together is a capitalist myth.
We need to seperate the issue of imprisonment from the issue of crime; they are not about the same things, and one does not cure the other.

Prisons serve no function except to preserve the ruling classes. We believe that free society must find alternative effective ways of dealing with anti-social crime. But a decrease is only likely to happen (and therefore prison abolition can only be a realistic option) when accompanied by a dramatic change in our economic, social and political systems.

The conditions of capitalist society lie at the root of both anti-social crime and the reasons for a prison system. Our primary goal is to make these fundamental changes.

Oh, and marksman, this isn't Mad Max. dickhead#


everybody

 http://www.anarchistblackcross.org/

everybody


naive fools

06.01.2003 19:03

So you honestly believe that if capatalism was replaced with a society based on anarchism, that you wouldnt still get theft, murder, rape? many people wouldnt respect food that another person had gathered or grown and would seize it using force rather then make effort to get their own. Those that commit rapes and murders out of choice would do so again and again without check. The only way to stop them would be to kill them, or imprison them..

Your dream world is flawed

Marksman501's comment is true in that you'd need some sort of defence force to protect communities from those that would rather take by force then trade for or obtain through friendly interaction.

the voice


I'm a naive fool!

06.01.2003 21:47

I don't believe an anarchistic society needs police. Why would anyone need to steal, rape or murder?

All crime is down to the current system which is one of privelige and injustice, where everyone tries to live my screwing each other over. There is no need for police in truly collective, classless societies, previous, present or future.

Smash the state


its true

20.01.2005 14:31

MOST OF THIS ARTICLE IS TRUE
HOWEVER I DON NOT THINK THAT WITHOUT THE POLICE THE WORLD WOULD BE A BETTER PLACE OR EVEN THE U.K, THIS IS NOT TRUE APART FROM THE GOOD GUYS WHO GET CONSTANT HARRASMENT FROM THE POLICE THERE ARE ALSO SCUM WHICH NEED TO BE LOCKED AWAY, WE JUST NEED OUR POLICE FORCES MANAGED ALOT MORE EFFICENTLY, AND TRY TO ACTRACT MORE MIX RACED OFFICERS.

SHABBA