EDL Planning Deadly Race Riots

The media and the riot police in Bolton portrayed the so-called "English Defence League" as friendly, happy-go-lucky "treehuggers", but the ugly truth shone through later Saturday evening when a gang of chanting EDL thugs gathered in a pub on Oldham Road, Middleton intent on violence.

Annoying other customers, the fascist drunkards soon turned abusive. When told to leave by the bar manager, they turned violent, jumping on one of the pub regulars from behind, viciously assaulting him. When another man intervened to help his friend, the EDL cowards stabbed the second man with a cut-throat blade.

Behind the spindoctoring of the EDL, they remain as dangerous as ever. This is no proper political outfit. The vast majority of EDL members are hardened football hooligans who thanks to a steadfast anti-fascist presence were unable to engage their boots, fists and knife blades against their opponents.

EDL streetfighters do not warm to standing around like headless chickens listening to half-baked speeches about politics. If they are not able to beat up people, they quicly succomb to boredom, which is one of the reasons they get blasted in garish chain pubs before, during and after their protests. A "sanitised" police-friendly EDL does not offer the buzz of raw violence that sustains the ego of the average football hooligan, thus if EDL thugs are to be regularly restrained during their rallies by their own leadership, more and more will we see extreme violence erupt afterwards.

Rumours of the EDL "top knobs" grassing up their hooligan supporters in a police station interrogation room in Sheffield, adds an extra dimension to the perceived swing in policing and media bias. Whatever the truth behind these rumours, (the expression "no smoke without fire" comes to mind) if the next few EDL rallies are stage-managed in a similar way to the London and Bolton invasions, the organisation will lose its fanbase, leaving desperate measures to keep their "muscle" onside.

Unlike Geert Wilders's extreme rightwing political party which has political ambitions, run by the puppetmasters of the BNP, Chris Renton's EDL will never run for parliament. All they are concerned with is spreading hatred, fear and violence throughout the land they falsely claim to defend. Trevor Kelway's illusion of peaceful law-abiding nationalist campaigners was shattered early on Saturday night when the pent-up hate of drunken EDLers led to this stabbing frenzy, but far, far worse is yet to come.

To satisy the wet dreams of disillusioned football hooligans and hardcore white supremacists, the leadership of the EDL will very shortly double-cross the cops and unleash the world's bloodiest race riot with numerous fatalities, BNP/BPP/BFF and Combat18 neo-Nazi fanatics combining to engineer Britain's most horrific far right terrorist outrage since David Copeland went on his deadly murder spree.

Steel City Guy

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Comments

Hide the following 42 comments

Kate McDermody

24.03.2010 00:45

I wander what the police now know since the now infamous Sheffield interrogation.

Sure does remind me of the way Special Branch got the BPP's Kate to "help the police with their enquiries". I see an obvious similarity...

EDL = CREDIBILITY ZERO

The British far right lack backbone, turning into grasses at every given opportunity!

DR KNOW

indeed

24.03.2010 01:22

"EDL streetfighters do not warm to standing around like headless chickens listening to half-baked speeches about politics. If they are not able to beat up people, they quickly succomb to boredom, which is one of the reasons they get blasted in garish chain pubs before, during and after their protests".

Indeed!

uio

Newspaper link

24.03.2010 01:31

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/38658/stabbing-outside-middleton-pub

Why can their demos be banned when every event they have leads to violence?

anon

Not Rocket Science

24.03.2010 01:33

It does worry me what the EDL leadership will do when they realise their casuals are leaking away following the plod informer talk. Only today, Casuals United deleted lots of comments on the topic as if they have something to hide.

I agree that the only way the EDL could keep their hooligans onside would be to conduct a bloody and vicious race riot.

Nobody takes notice of Titus's silly speeches. I mean, why would a pro hoolie from Stoke come up all the way to Bolton, wasting his train fare on a meaningless ramble about Islamification, when all he wants is to beat up Asian people and leftwingers. It seems like the sanitised EDl (if it really exists) won't offer much excitement to the EDL's hardened fash thugs.

If there isn't a massive race riot pretty soon, these tough guys won't hang around long meaning only the political heads will be left.

It's not bloody rocket science.

Not Rocket Scientist

Nothing to see

24.03.2010 02:57

The EDL have something to hide. Think about the perfect opportunity in the up coming election. Its not just antifascists that they attack. When it comes to the elections people might suddenly realise what they are hiding. Its not rocket science.

Pete Todd

to 'steel city guy'

24.03.2010 04:00

there was another post or long comment recently of a similar vein to yours, not that you're repetetive or wrong but I can't help but feel that this is slightly scare mongering, I'm not saying that this isn't what these people aspire to but you seem to have resigned your self to this doomed out come. Personally I think it is well with in the capability of the anti fash movement to prevent such a catastrophe and is by no means a forgone conclusion I don't think we should kid ourselves of what the fash may intend or desire or merely fantasise about but I also think we should focus on defending our communities as we are very capable of doing as we are many and they are few

does it matter?

Sheffield Police Station Goings-On

24.03.2010 07:05

Why do you whisper, green grass
Why tell the tress what ain't so
Whispering grass
The trees don't have to know, no-no

Why tell them all your secrets
Who kissed there long ago
Whispering grass
The trees don't need to know

Don't you tell it to the breeze
For she will tell the birds and bees
And everyone will know
Because you told the blabbering trees
Yes, you told them once before
It's no secret anymore-ore

Why tell them all the old things
They're buried under the snow
Whispering grass, don't tell the trees
'Cause the trees don't need to know-ow

Now, don't you tell it to the breeze
'Cause she'll run 'n' tell it to the birds and bees
And everyone will know
Because you done told the blabberin' trees
Yes you did, ya told 'em once before
So that's why it ain't no secret anymore, mm-mm-mm

Why tell them all the old things
They're buried under the snow
Whispering grass, don't tell the trees
'Cause the trees - don't need - to... know-ow...

Pedro

selling out their footsoldiers

24.03.2010 07:17

I wouldn't like to be an EDL leader when the minions learn what their leaders have done to them. You don't change a copper's mind without "assisting them with their enquiries", especially only weeks after trampling over officers and wrecking police vans in Stoke, something the UAF have never done.

It's not just the 5-0 who deliver sweeteners to appease the fascist crowd. The media too, which suggests that the tabloids and broadsheets are all at the beck and call of the powers that be. Before the Bolton rally had even started, the EDL had gone in a matter of days, from "far right" to rightwing".

If the coppers are advising the media how to portray the EDL, we do indeed live in an Orwellian State.

Just hope the football lads know the score, how they are being used and abused (sold-out) by their own comrades.

Tommy Robinson's Blabbering Mouth

There's so much censorship going on

24.03.2010 07:29

..... on Casuals United, deleting member's awkward comments about Robinson.

Its only natural wander why?

xman

Hiding

24.03.2010 07:38

Tommy Robinson's just a pseudonym.

Anyone know who TR he really is?

EDL - Just Violent Thugs?

24.03.2010 09:58

Reading the report of the EDL demo on Indymedia, and having taken a look at the Rochdale News's report of the fight in the pub, one can only conclude that there is some serious class snobbery going on here.
Many of the EDL supporters are not 'Right Wing' any more than the average working class family living in the more socially deprived areas of the UK are 'Right Wing'. Sure there are a fair amount of Right-wing nutters and many of the so-called leadership are 'Right-wing', but many of the supporters are just angry at the state, at having few choices in life. The supporters of the EDL know they've been lied to by the Labour Party top people and Conservatives when they are in power. They are anti-establishment, but they blame foreigners and Islam for their own ills. Is it not an education issue?
The criticism of the pubs some of the EDL supporters frequent is just so-much patronising middle-class crap. Many EDL supporters live in working class districts of towns where the choice is limited. Many anti-fascists from these districts drink in the same places, support the same football teams, and work in the same places.
We are on to a nothing but rejection if we equate EDL supporters as totally 'right-wing' or fascist.

Jon

Not sure I agree...

24.03.2010 10:16

... I don't think the EDL will organise a "race riot", but I imagine the forthcoming World Cup will offer them opportunities to exploit. Hot summer days, Stella, large crowds in boisterous mood, just add some EDL dickheads, some jingoism ("Rule Britannia" and all that) and maybe a quarter final match against Turkey or wherever and I can see a large scale kick-off occurring.

Rudeboy

@Jon

24.03.2010 10:45

Fair comment Jon, and this is a major problem. Looking at the MEN produced Bolton News live feed, the distinction between the two groups was clear. The UAF will be pleased to see that the footage shows the antifascist crowd made up of colourfully dressed people of all ages, with a preponderence of the older and younger cohorts, black white and asian, whilst when the bulk of the EDL arrived they were clearly a football crowd, teenagers through the majority 25-40, with a few older men, almost solidly male, all in blue black or white, with peaked caps and hoodies.Going through online comments, especially on Facebook, you can see the mindset of the EDL leadership, or at least the admins of the EDL sites. They do have genuine fears and concerns, but everything is hyped into a fantasy based on casual and not so casual racism about Muslims in general. If anyone has a doubt about the racist background to the EDL and the people attending these demonstrations, a little imagination can find troll sites where people are spending their entire day infiltrating these sites and collecting screenshots of the disgusting racist abuse and threats to commit violence on "muzzies", making a mockery of the argument that EDL are only against Islamic extremism. Given that this is the mindset of a lot of people who live and (don't) work in the working class estates of our cities and towns, and that these views are being promoted by a) the meida demonisation of Islam as equivalent to terrorism, and b) the subjective perception that equality and anti-discrimination laws are providing unfair benefits or protection to ethnic minorities, we need to be much clearer at putting across key messages.

Apart from fantasists like Islam4UK, noone is trying to impose Sharia law in the UK

The vast majority of Muslims are against extremism and terrorism, just as the majority of society are.

There are white and far right terrorists in equal or greater numbers (as as a proportion of the population) both here and e.g. in the US. Terrorists who because of the prioorities of the anti-terrorism programmes have actually committed more outrages.

The crowds who turn up to oppose them are NOT just UAF. And are not just middle class, or socialists/communists and students.

That antifascists are (or should be) opposed to the Taliban and other fascist groups, and the imposition of restrictive cultural practices on people who oppose them, but for the freedom of people to pursue their own religion and culture.

That muslim and antifascist anger at EDL and other nationalist groups is not simplistic anti-British, anti-soldier or anti-American or Israeli feeling, but is based on the geo-political reality of white western intervention and military conquest of muslim countries and peoples. The comments on FB etc make it clear that the more rabid elements of EDL and co see every muslim person as "the enemy" in a war that "we" are waging against muslims. We need to be clearer that we are pro-soldier but anti-Imperialism,

anon

You have crossed the line my dear!

24.03.2010 10:51

You know what,

I think the EDL are just extremely stupid, poorly educated morons who engage in the behaviour they do because they are bored and looking for something to break. You EDL can't actually achieve anything because you have no politics, no ideology, no reason. You are functionally stupid. You will never achieve anything let alone defend anything. I'm English and I don't need defending. If I did, you would be the LAST people I would approach because defending yourself means defending yourself, not buckling under and crying or running away at the first sign of trouble.

And you Anarchists. Whats all this regressive, elitist claptrap about representing the working class? Are you even vaguely aware of the world you live in? I've read your comments here on IM for a number of years and I think you really are a miserable waste of space. Class war, what an elitist crock of shit that is. You talk about representing the working class, who do the working class work for? Corporations, the military, government, globalists! You fucking idiots. You don't represent anyone, you are enforcers of the class system, defenders of the state's dominance over ordinary people.

So I think that you should all really just fuck off and bore yourselves to death on your own forums. IM has serious work to do and you are very definately not helping, unless of course that's what your secretly up to...disruption!

A man was knifed in a pub and you are ALL now responsible for that.

Who is this man?
What was he doing?
How many of you have apologised to him and his family?
What will you all be doing to prevent this happening again?
What compensation will you be paying him?
Does he have a job?
Can he work?
Where is he now?
What is he doing at this exact moment?

What did he say before he was attacked?

Ask yourself some questions morons. Ask them now, you are all now being watched. Fight each other by all means, but when innocent bystanders get hurt then you make enemies...enemies who are FAR more talented than you.

The Morrow

@The Morrow

24.03.2010 11:05

Weird post, I'm trying to work out where you are coming from politically.

Can you enlighten us? TIA.

anon

Where from?

24.03.2010 11:16

"Weird post, I'm trying to work out where you are coming from politically.

Can you enlighten us? TIA. "

Sure, I come from a number of political directions none of which I am going to talk about at IM as it will just confuse people...and be used to confuse people. Just very disappointed that somebody has been hurt.

Not going to happen again I think!

For you anarchists and EDL, think about what you have to lose...and concentrate very hard on that.

The Morrow.

Class War Trolls

24.03.2010 12:54

Picking up on what The Morrow says above, there have been loads of comments on Indymedia posted by transparent trolls from extreme workerist groups like Class War and AFA veterans from Red Action and the IWCA. You've got to admire people who've got the bottle to physically take-on Fascists, but, in terms of political judgement, the Tories won in the 1980s because they judged the mood of the same workers these hacks claim to represent far better than the hard left did themselves. That's not to say that class issues aren't relevant to tackling the BNP, but facts of history speak for themselves. The only thing Class War achieved in the long-term was to take the popular and inclusive anarchist movement of the 1980s and shrink it back down to yet another tiny left-wing cult, with a couple of hundred fanatical, holier-than-thou, violent and sometimes inarticulate and stupid supporters, and since then IWCA lost all its councillors, has a tiny membership, and (for all its thoughtful and well-informed analyses) poses zero threat to the BNP.

In establishing the BNP as a "radical" (sic) "alternative" (sic) in at least some white working-class communities, the BNP have achieved inroads in exactly the territory that hard-left and anarchist class warriors like to think is their own, and my God some class warriors are fucking jealous! They're also bitter that resurgent Anti-Fascism fails to pay due deference to their past achievements, slagging-off people who have the common-sense to use media tools the EDL and BNP have turned to their advantage as "student wankers" and "keyboard warriors", in preference to realising that new generations of young media-savvy activists may well be Anti-Fascism's greatest asset

For those who think they and their friends are the "genuine" Anti-Fascists, Anti-Fascism is the property of NO-ONE. If you're a class warrior who wants to use resurgent Anti-Fascism to re-establish your own failed CULT preferably please don't, or at least have the honesty to openly declare which group or ideology you're trying to promote, and please don't let your bitterness and anger wreck Anti-Fascism like you wrecked your own movements. As for the article itself - it's a little over dramatic but as a worst case scenario it's plausible - I don't think it'll be the EDL that goes on a "murder spree" but they are contributing to an atmosphere which makes another David Copeland inevitable, and it'll probably be that that finally wrecks the BNP rather than any amount of hard left analysis

Whether you like it or not, this is positive criticism, so read it carefully

What the difference between Antifa and the BNP?

24.03.2010 13:19

The BNP pretend they're concerned with Nationalism when in reality their ideology centres on RACE

Antifa pretend they're concerned with anti-fascism when in reality their ideology centres on CLASS

BOTH groups think if one section of society miraculously disappeared then all or most of our problems could be magic-ed away, both groups are utopian in the worst sense of the word, not because they want to make society better, but because they never will

As for the EDL, if your group was co-founded by a guy whose autobiography says he stabbed football fans and smeared pub toilets with human shit for "fun" then sorry Observer but I think it's appeal is probably limited ;)

Limited to people like YOU

Swarm

@swarm

24.03.2010 13:33

I agree with the Antifa - Bnp comment.As for the appeal comment I can only go be what I see and dont listen to rubbish some post on here.Perhaps its to do with the recessin,this sort of stuff always surfaces when jobs and money are tight

Observer

a load of silliness

24.03.2010 14:01

''To satisy the wet dreams of disillusioned football hooligans and hardcore white supremacists, the leadership of the EDL will very shortly double-cross the cops and unleash the world's bloodiest race riot with numerous fatalities, BNP/BPP/BFF and Combat18 neo-Nazi fanatics combining to engineer Britain's most horrific far right terrorist outrage since David Copeland went on his deadly murder spree. '' Come on mate,are you sure its not your own anxieties and dreams your unleashing on us....Before Troll hunter appears and denounces me I'm anti edl and bnp like your self ,problem is your article is hysterical to the point of very silly , where exactly will the worlds most bloody race riot occur ? Bradford ? yes we don't want another repeat of 2001 thank you but its hardly going to be the worlds bloodiest race riot is it ,come on and get a grip mate there's numerous places in the world where such stuff is sadly happening ,some very bad riots have occured all over the place but get a grip on reality as your scare mongering is just that ! Are you hoping to hype this up so that the police will unleash hell on the EDL ? remember who it is the police and establishment in this country really hate... If we're going to combat the edl we must try and at least understand them before we take them on instead of fraking out about multiple fatalities .Regards c.o.g

Concerned of gipton [ the real one]

Grassing Up Their Own Kind

24.03.2010 14:28

Nothin can explain why the EDL have been far more agressive towards the police (real aggro, real crimes not trumped-up charges), and had been public enemy number one for the cops which resulted in the Sheffield arrests.

A short time later, hey presto, and it's as if Stoke hadn't happened. The cops're laughin along with the EDL like the best of buddies.

Casuals United would fuckin deny this, but how other than grassin would the cops start suckin EDL cock for no good reason?

The police also infiltrated Third Way, the National Front, and the BPP using similar tactics.

It is not surprising the EDL go to the extrordinary lengths of posting on here, when there is so much at stake. There's a bad smell of treason in the EDL microclimate, and even though I don't like racist soccer thugs, I do know they will one day discover the truth about their "friends" in the EDL's leadership, and how they sold them out to save their own skins from serious charges.

NOBODY LIKES A GRASS!

ESPECIALLY NOT HOOLIGANS ARRESTED ON EVIDENCE SNEAKED TO THEM FROM EDL LEADERS.

Chesterfield

Posting Regards Class War, IWCA Etc

24.03.2010 15:38

Interesting observations made by one individual on here.

In fairness the Left / Anarcho brigades have lost touch with the working class and that's why the BNP and EDL are so attractive to the working class.

Everyone needs to stop with the digs like calling and the exposing of criminal records etc. Every time their criminal records are exposed for example they come back exposing criminal records that certain members of the Left / Anarcho brigades have.

REAL alternatives need to be offered or everyone is simply pissing in the wind.

Realist

A message from 1819

24.03.2010 16:54

Song to the Men of England

Men of England, wherefore plough
For the lords who lay ye low?
Wherefore weave with toil and care
The rich robes your tyrants wear?

Wherefore feed, and clothe, and save,
From the cradle to the grave,
Those ungrateful drones who would
Drain your sweat -- nay, drink your blood?

Wherefore, Bees of England, forge
Many a weapon, chain, and scourge
That these stingless drones may spoil
The forced produce of your toil?

Have ye leisure, comfort, calm,
Shelter, food, love's gentle balm?
Or what is it ye buy so dear
With your pain and with your fear?

The seed ye sow, another reaps;
The wealth ye find, another keeps;
The robes ye weave, another wears;
The arms ye forge, another bears.

Sow seed, -- but let no tyrant reap;
Find wealth, -- let no impostor heap;
Weave robes, -- let not the idle wear;
Forge arms, -- in your defence to bear.

Shrink to your cellars, holes, and cells;
In halls ye deck another dwells.
Why shake the chains ye wrought? Ye see
The steel ye tempered glance on ye.

With plough and spade, and hoe and loom,
Trace your grave, and build your tomb,
And weave your winding-sheet, till fair
England be your sepulchre.

Percy Bysshe Shelley

Percy Bysshe Shelley

@Swarm: anti-fascism vs CLASS

24.03.2010 19:41

(I posted this once already but it appears to have vanished into the ether, so apologies it this is a duplicate)

Swarm: "Antifa pretend they're concerned with anti-fascism when in reality their ideology centres on CLASS"

Um, surely the whole basis of fascism is to divide society into rigid classes where the ruling class controls the lower classes in an authoritarian way?

It comes from the ancient Roman Empire where you would have a ruling class, a slave class, and other classes in them middle. In a sense fascism is nothing more than an extreme authoritarian form of classism. So it's hardly surprising that anti-fascists feature class very prominently in their ideology.

Maybe you are confusing fascism with racism? The two often go together, although that isn't strictly necessary - you could have either one without the other.

anon

EDL police deal

24.03.2010 20:21

Wonder if, with the upcoming world cup, the EDL haven't sold info to plod on the casuals in their ranks to help plod stop violence kicking off - whose planning to attend, when, what they're going to do etc, in return plod has dropped charges against the EDL leaders and promised to have a go at the UAF.

One more thing, plod went after the EDL guns drawn seizing computers and whatnot. Then dropped the charges as if nowt had happened.

If that was me I'd be suing the bastards for all I could get - false arrest, damage to property, the lot.
So why have the EDL's Tommy Robinson and co given a meek "cheers officer" and gone on their merry way?

IHTF

Absolutely fucking right about CLASS.

25.03.2010 00:01

I am sick to fuck of middle class cunts from the left on demos shouting "Class Traitor" at EDL etc. What the fuck? Most EDL are working or underclass and yes this IS why the EDL is so attractive to people...[and I think that the EDL are going for the wrong enemy in a way].

I am also sick to fuck of middle calss lefties and anarchists looking at me like I'm a piece of shit or exchanging looks when "lower class" people crack a joke [that mc's don't usually get or find funny], on protests that they want to rule over.

Groups like No Borders in the UK are mostly middle class European students and the people they say that they are helping won't come near them on protests. The SWP are abucnh of middle class cunts who the working class and underclass of all colours can't abide.

People living on estates are not that likely to come on anti racism protests which are led by middle class SWP / UAF people who look down on estate bred youth, whether white, asian, black or mixed race. GANGS are the major concern for people on estates more than racism. Yes, racism is a problem and it goes in many different directions..something that the UAF chooses to ignore. Black and Asian people are racist towards one another, whites against blacks, asians etc. Brits of many colours against immigrants etc...racism is everywhere and isn't just confined to the BNP. [On the EDL demo Black youths were calling the UAF "Pakis"]. Black African people call Afro Carribean people "slave babies" in racist taunts. Much of this resentment is frustration.
Many people [working class/underclass and the others] are bothered about the effects of immigrants from the EU. This is not about colour..it's about housing, jobs, benefits, the NHS etc and so on.
The UAF/SWP are a waste of time and money and achieve nothing other than to hijack and disrupt genuine campaigns and protests. They are dangerous thugs behind the scenes too...violent, dangerous and devious. I reckon that what the SWP/UAF secretly and really fear about the EDL is that the working class and underclass are on the march without them and don't like them.

I know that the working classes / underclasses don't like the SWP / UAF much and that this is throughout the "different races".

anon

more on class

25.03.2010 00:25

Sure the EDL are working class lads - but they are not a progressive force, within our class. Instead they do the bosses work, by fuelling fear and division, and blaming ALL Muslims for the actions of a tiny few. If they protested outside Anjem Choudary's house no-one would give a shit... but instead they target the average Asian in the street (they don't even know what religion people are when they label them "paki" or "muzzers" etc).

I'd also say that not everyone oppposing the EDL are middle class. That wasn't the case in Bolton.

This group (see link) have done some good working class community stuff, and we should take such examples back to our own streets, and workplaces.

http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wordpress.com/2010/03/02/the-caliphate-of-whitechapel/

mark

How Do You Define Class Now?!!

25.03.2010 04:52

How does one define class now when many working class people through promotion at work or have taken up opportunities with education to better themselves and are in jobs that were once considered middle class?

I'm thinking of thing like middle management, teaching, social services et.

Underclass who excatly are they? Around the South East it just seems to be people who cannot even be bothered to look for work and are far too happier just to smoke weed and drink beer all day. Is that a fault of the system or the fault of people living that lifestyle?

Realist

Everyone agrees

25.03.2010 09:11

The EDL are not "Right Wing" but a Criminal Organisation. They are bent on causing serious social disorder. Their "opposition" to extremism is flimsy. They have never once demonstrated against the BNP support for extremist religious bigots.

But the EDL are not political. They are criminal. They call themselves "lads" because they are too immature to accept that they are grown up enough to go to prison for their crimes.

The EDL are not political. They are criminal. Not just criminal but criminal with a bunch of grasses in their midst. Next time anti-fascists march against them they would do better to chant about their grasses not their politics.

Russell Felton

re: The UAF/SWP ... hijack and disrupt genuine campaigns and protests.

25.03.2010 13:55

anon: "The UAF/SWP are a waste of time and money and achieve nothing other than to hijack and disrupt genuine campaigns and protests."

You ranted a lot slagging off "middle class lefties and anarchists" and various other groups, so I'm curious as to what you think are "genuine campaigns and protests"?

Are you genuine or just a troll trying to stir up infighting?

@non

'a bribed tool of reactionary intrigue.'

26.03.2010 11:14

UAF is funded by the unions - workers organisations. The EDL is funded by rich business people. Enough said really.

Alfie North

We need an INCLUSIVE Anti-Fascist movement, otherwise we'll FAIL

26.03.2010 11:57

"Surely the whole basis of Fascism is to divide society into rigid classes where the ruling class controls the lower classes in an authoritarian way?" If that assumption was true, then obviously Class War / AFA / IWCA / Antifa type ideas about how to combat the EDL and BNP would be totally justified. While there is SOME truth in their philosophies, Fascism is about POWER, not just class. Fascists come from all kinds of socio-economic backgrounds and they want to dominate EVERYONE, not just the workers. Some Fascist leaders have been aristos, so have some of their assassins, some Fascist leaders have been middle-class, so have some of their assassins, some Fascist leaders have been workers, so have some of their assassins.

Mussolini was an ex-Communist journo whose brand of Fascism was strongly pro-working class (in the short-term sense at least). Franco was an ultra-conservative Catholic but much of the legislation implemented under his regime was strongly pro-Trades Union, to the extent that the regime enforced "Jobs for Life" laws that protected at least some aspects of working people's lives for decades. Much of the ideology of original German National Socialism was exactly that - SOCIALIST, aimed at employing, empowering and mobilising unemployed ex-soldiers and rescuing an economy the Nazis portrayed as having been wrecked by capitalism. Peron-ism was aristocratic in origin but relied heavily on working-class support. There's an excellent doc on You Tube called "Fighting Talk" made by AFA, but the most interesting thing about that programme is that the best evidence of Fascist collusion with bosses that AFA could show was from Glasgow in the General Strike in 1926 !!!!!!! and (with a few minor exceptions) the British ruling class dropped Fascism like a ton of hot bricks after WW2.

The class analysis of Fascism is dangerously naive, it's formulaic, simplistic, out-of-date and (worst of all) deeply divisive - if we rely on out-dated ideas to combat Fascism then the Fascists WILL win

We need an INCLUSIVE Anti-Fascist movement, otherwise we'll FAIL

Hello Sailor

Class Bore

26.03.2010 12:47

Most working people have never even heard of Class War and the IWCA.... these groups failed because of (not despite) the nature of their views....

Scaramanga

Class War

26.03.2010 13:12

Do you guys remember rumours in the 1980s about Class War being an MI5 front? Whether they were or not, sure as hell CW destroyed popular support for British anarchism, now surprise surprise their people are trying to influence campaigns against the BNP................

EDL types may think "loyalty" is more important than political common-sense, but they've got enough street-smarts to know half the "up-the-workers" brigade are privileged anyway - that's a battle the left lost decades ago so don't even bother mate.

At least the BNP have got enough tactical intelligence not to deliberately alienate middle-class supporters

Bobsleigh

yet again distraction ..

26.03.2010 18:58

.. the EDL are not planning 'dead;y race riots' and yet again some who oppose them ( and there are very good reasons to oppose them) think that lieing is the way to defeat them. Before anything they do we hear lies - "a 100 EDL/BNP to march in london" ( it was about 200 EDL and very few and undercover BNP) "knife attack on mosque in Bolton" ( not true- a man was trying to theive a car!) etc etc etc

IF 'you' ( whoever you are) believe in what you do AND that what you believe is better than the EDL why lie all the time??

there are something that have becone clear; that the EDL is not overtly fascist, that there are as many who hate fascists in the EDL as are fascists, that it is a single issue campaign, that while many are anti Islamist many are simply anti Islam, but above all it is clear the EDL is filling a vacuum ( like the BNP is too) where the left and the anarchists have abandonned working class communities in favour of, in the case of the Left, a narrow section of orgainised workers and feeble attempts to recuit british Muslims, and for the the Anarchists a collapse into liefstylism and the margins.

fascism IS about class. fascism is a tool of the ruling class to divide the working class so it can not fight back. the EDL while not yet conciously fascist are starting to fulfill that role. but to treat them ( and particulalry the ordinary w/c class blokes who go on the demos) as fascists will only drive them toward fascism. indeed the tactics of 'anti-fascism' have traditionally failed to comprehend how so much 'anti-fascism' simply appears as anti working class propaganda by the status qou to the people it is aimed at.

the EDL are a blessing in disguise; their ( like the BNP) existance makes it now absolutely impertaive that the Left and the @s return to the roots of radical politics, return to the streets and estates, abandon the lifestylist, marginal nonsense that alienates so many ordianry people, and start rebuilding our communities form the base.

and if we carry on as we are? god forbid

D02

learning from the past

27.03.2010 00:00

Another important lesson to learn from the past is that it is generally only with the benefit of hindsight, looking in the rear view mirror, that a society is able to look back and say 'oh yes our or they're government was deplorable, a diabolical fascist regime'.

There are many reasons for that, the main being that at the time the fascists are in power, they're is little forum, or opportunity to reach critical mass where it is possible to say so or oppose the regime, without endangering yourself or others. Suppression of free-speech, movement, media all serve to place limits on awareness and thus opposition and the promotion of alternative ideas.

A fascist regime in its infancy, stretching perhaps to it's youth would generally be very difficult to determine as fascistic, as the positive benefits - national unity & pride, increased prosperity and productivity, improved health care, social welfare - would be so overwhelmingly the flavour of the moment, the accepted climate and fashion. A state and a people in a popular fascist euphoria easily overlooks the losses of another, when they see the gains they have made. Peace and prosperity (for most) are promised and provided. Wealth is re-distributed, but in any redistribution of wealth, there are always winners and losers, whether it is the rich being fleeced to benefit the poor; the poor being fleeced to benefit the rich; a minority racial grouping being fleeced to benefit a majority other; a class or opposition political grouping; or neighbouring countries being plundered of resources, intellect and scientific research to benefit 'the homeland'.

During re-distribution of wealth and power, open societies tend to close down. How long they dwell in the dark twilight of the fascist dawn all depends on a range of factors.

Indeed it is a sobering thought to reflect on the fact that determination of full-blown or fascistic tendencies within a state is not objectively determinate, but subjectively relativistic.

I suppose the major lesson to be learned, is that the best way for a society to avoid fascism is to endeavour to aim at all times to provide for everyone, fairly for everyone, without oppressing or discriminating against anyone, however well intentioned or noble the motives might seem.

Ob1

definition of fascism

27.03.2010 00:24

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

The main things that define fascism seems to be: nationalism, authoritarianism, pro-war mentality, opposition to individualism.

Also: "They believe that economic classes are not capable of properly running a nation, and that a merit-based aristocracy of experienced military persons must rule through regimenting a nation's forces of production and securing the nation's independence"

"...fascists reject ideas of class conflict and internationalism, [...] in favour of class collaboration and statist nationalism"

Concepts like "class" and "fascism" are a bit wishy washy and difficult to define exactly. But it seems to be clear that in a fascist society everyone "knows their place" and unites for the good of the nation, instead of having arguments between different groups in society e.g. economic classes.

I can understand why people call the EDL "class traitors" - it is because they are putting things like nationality ahead of class. They feel they have more in common with an white Anglo-Saxon aristocrat Christian than they do with a working class non-white Muslim.

@non

Last comment is wrong

27.03.2010 02:08

There are working class Asians in EDL.

anon

@ anon

27.03.2010 14:02

There were also a few Jews in the BUF, it didn't make them any less anti-semitic as an organisation. Here's a quote from an EDL supporter/member replying to a comment on You Tube. Note he is someone who claims that the EDL are not racist. Then after a few sentences he forgets his opposition to ONLY Islamic extremism, and talks about "Pakis" as a "weak race".... the EDL are class traitors because nationalism and racism divide workers. I have more in common with my Black / Asian / Polish / Muslim work mates, than I do with my boss who is white and from Yorkshire. The EDL however have declared war on ALL Muslims. Just look at their comments on Facebook / You Tube etc... It's a slippery slope toi exterminationism, they use exactly the same language that the anti -semites used in Europe in the early twentieth century.

Anyway, here's the quote... from the horses mouth......

................."We were protected by the cops? Don't make me fucking laugh. How old are you son? I don't know what world you're living in, but lets just get real for a moment, that's if you can. Let's brake your crowd down that day. I would say about 40% of you were female, 20% pensioner's, 20% student's, who if it came to a one on one fight with any of us, would probably make them physicaly sick. So what does that leave, oh yes, 10% big mouth, skinny little paki's who are a cowardly race unless they've got something in their hands, and we finaly come to the 10% that's left. Now i don't want to give you anti-everything bastards nothing, but i'm going to be sensible about this, so, there's got to be some amongst you that can have a decent go, but what i've seen with antifa over the years, and wether you are hard core antifa, well, i'll just have to take your word for it, is all you're good for is rioting, chucking bricks and smashing things, but as i say, i'll give you 10% that might actualy be able to fight. Now let's brake down the EDL, shall we.
3 or 4% female, 10% muppet chav kids who think they are tough, come to cause trouble, but would run if it started to come on top, 3% pensioners, 20% of some of the most violent youth firms in the country, and about 5% stormfront pricks that we are doing everything we can to get rid of, including using violence against them because we hate what they stand for and they go against what we stand for, believe it or not, i couldn't give two fucks.
Now what does that leave, 57/58%, a mixture of seasoned football lads, and lads that would never back away from fighting anyone, and that's not me trying to win this debate, it's just a fact. I am 44yrs of age, the age (round about) of most of the EDL lads, who i know from football going back to the early 80's.
Now lets be real (if you've got the ball's), no one with any sense would put money on you turning us over, and if you were truthful, you would admit it.
What i can't work out, is what the fuck are you counter protesting us for. Admittedly, we have got some out and out racist's in the EDL, but we are dealing with them and letting them know we hate them as much as you do, i find their views abhorent. I think they've got the right to their opinion, an if they believe they are part of an Aryan master race, well that's their choice, personaly, i think they are as brainwashed and derranged as the Muslim's and they are not welcome in the EDL.
I've traveled to every demo since, and including, Leeds, and not once have i heard any racist comment's, apart from the "Aryan mater race", and they are immediatly dealt with, or do you class the word "paki" racist?
Well let's disscuss the word paki, shall we.
Do we get offended when someone calls us "Brit's"? Do Australian's get offended when anyone calls them Ausies? What about "Yank's2, what about "Jock's", what about "Paddy's", what about "scousers, "scouser's", "geordies", "cockney's"? It's fucking pathetic and used by "paki's" to play the racism card whenever they want, but you only need to go on youtube and see all the "pakis" calling themselves paki warrior, or paki breed. They use the word all the time but it's only you stupid bastards that think it's racist. How many people say "i'm just going to the paki's"? It's only you left wing morons that's made it un pc to say the word, paki's don't give a fuck. They must think you're fucking "White idiot's" for standing side by side with them, protesting against us. If there were no "antifacist's" standing against us at Bolton, how many paki's do you think would of been there? 30/40/50? Most of them don't give a fuck, it's just you thick cunts. Answer me this one question which every time i've asked one of you left wing, anti-everything arseholes have never answered, if you're antifacist, why havn't you ever counter protested against the Muslim extremist when they have been holding demos? Islam is the most extreme facist ideoligy since the nazi party, so why, when the like's of Islam4uk, or it's real name " al-muhajiroun", are holding demos, or road show's, have you not counter protested against them. Unless you answer me that one question, don't bother replying because unless you're willing to face this question and give me an honest answer, this debate has finished. ".......................

dave

racist edl

28.03.2010 15:31

anyone who doubts that the edl are racist should take a quick look at how they are using facebook to encourage racism in Dudley.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs450.ash1/24800_108435325852059_100000567765205_161171_6022981_n.jpg

dudley dave

re: why don't we protest against facsist Islam?

28.03.2010 18:58

from a previous comment: "Answer me this one question [...], if you're antifacist, why havn't you ever counter protested against the Muslim extremist when they have been holding demos? Islam is the most extreme facist ideoligy since the nazi party, so why, when the like's of Islam4uk, or it's real name " al-muhajiroun", are holding demos, or road show's, have you not counter protested against them?"

That's a good question. I think the reason is that fundamentalist Islam (correctly) isn't seen as a real threat in this country, just as a fringe joke. Quasi-fascist groups like the EDL, on the other hand, are potentially dangerous given their pro-government views which mean they get direct and indirect support from powerful people and organizations.

Paradoxically, the EDL are also likely to encourage moderate Muslims into more extreme views, because they are seen to be attacking all Muslims, not just the fundamentalists. That is possibly an intentional side-effect.

anon