Stop the War Coalition ... Time to go?

predictable nonsense that STWC is backed by MI5 police etc, could say the same about you. but this mutual name calling gets us nowhere. While STWC did not stop the war, it is unclear exactly what you guys can do outside it. 'direct action' also does not really do very much.

you are probally not aware that the Manchester refugee and asylum groups are forming up in the Peace Gardens before the start of the demo, but I supposed that doesn't matter to you macho types when you barge in on their assembley point. You are an arrogant twat.

i should point out i'm not affiliated with the organisers of the anarchist bloc i mentioned, was just trying to give it a plug

so i dont speak for them in any way, although i cant see why two groups cant share the same assembly point

usual authoritarian bullshit from the STWC

There is a big anti war and anti Blair demonstration coming up and I have been waiting for some prat to come on line and start denouncing the Stop The War Coalition,the SWP and George Galloway for some real or imagined failing. god ,what a bore.If you don't want to be there why not go and stay in your daddy's holiday cottage or take your washing home to mum.
albert

"you are probally not aware that the Manchester refugee and asylum groups are forming up in the Peace Gardens before the start of the demo, but I supposed that doesn't matter to you macho types when you barge in on their assembley point. You are an arrogant twat."

actually the people meeting at the assembly point with red and black flags are people who are there because they actively support the Manchester refugee and asylum groups. noone is barging in on anything or is arrogant or unaware of the real issues people with different immigration status face in Manchester. ffs. its serious enough. do we need this turning into a cheap row about anarchist versus swp? I don't know who the person is who has posted this. he/she has said him/herself they are nothing to do with the people meeting at the peace gardens. so leave it at that.

see you all at the peace gardens. in solidarity with people facing deportation.

Sorry stop the war coalition failed, there can be no other conclusion.

Why did it fail?

Who is responsible?

How do you stop it happening again?

Funny how the trots hate answering the basic questions and the anarchos still couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

""If you don't want to be there why not go and stay in your daddy's holiday cottage or take your washing home to mum. ""

You mean like all the "revolutionaries" of the SWP?

The anarchists may be a crowd of freaks, but the SWP are worse!

Slime your way around the Blairite scum, you won't make any fucking difference.

None of you have got the bollocks to put a bomb in there.

this is really a sad posting
freda

Whats the betting that that searle character from the swp tries desperately to get to the front of the demo & assembly armed with his trusted megaphone?

The demo will not achieve much, remember a huge demo in london that also achieved little?

By playing the current democratic game you are just perpetuating the same old shite - for many years the working classes fought for rights - recognition and representation - hence the labour party was formed upon the backs of the workers and what have they done? BETRAYED THEM.

The democratic system is so corrupt it does not work, people know this and have turned off politics as they see it. Tossers like the swp make this even worse by bandwaggoning any struggle. it is very much a well oiled process, turn up at meetings suggest we have leaders chairmen, secretary etc as they often speak fluently and authortively lo and behold they get to be officers, but they are not the answer, indeed democracy is not the answer - how could it be when the BNP can secure council seats.

If we believe in no war, no discrimination, in the right to education (not exam passing courses) in a world that is tolerant and sustainable then there has to be a different way a way that does not involve ownership and profit and one person being subservient to another

So yes go to the demo, I have no power or wish to stop anyone, but define your own parameters your own route, think what you are there for - to stop war - to stop the labour party - to stop blair - or merely replace him with someone else?

No one on here, has mentioned how the SWP/Respect and their obsession with 'the
war', imperialsm and racism is dominating the lefts/activist response to the
labour party conference. No events or even mentions of housing, inequality/poverty
in the uk, the NHS, etc, they havent even mentioned the important anti Welfare
Reform Bill protest on the Monday in their literature (though nor has Indymedia)
I wonder why?

Then again no one else in Manchester has organised anything on the above issues:
The left in all its forms had better wake up, for milions of people , the issues
of the day are housing, poverty, crime, the NHS, welfare cuts, not 'the war ' and
imperialism. The BNP have realised this, they even apparently have a landlords
charter on their website, when is the last time the left campaigned on rights for
tenants in the private rented sector, wake up everyone, stop fetishing the
war! there are very important domestic issues as well to fight on,
if you don't there are others who will etc.

... exactly.

Working men & women FOUGHT for their rights, many were killed, jailed, deported or ruined in other more subtle ways, but FIGHT they did.

Now, many decades later we will have to FIGHT again, because NO ONE hands you your rights on a plate.

'Marchin up and down the square not good enough for you, rather be at the pictures would you? Right off you go then ... "

Nice days out, only spoiled by the unwillingness of HUGE groups of people to tear the gates of privalige and power down and demand answers and justice ...

... but is that what the organisers want?

Do as they ask then, if what you want is them in positions of power ... or rather allow those already in power to drain and divert our energy.

I do not want to compete with the main political parties - I want to end them. I cannot do this by joining an 'alternative' political parrty. but I think one or two democratic's have revealed their hand - I want to remove these parties and multi nationals from power and replace them with........NOTHING. They want to replace them with themselves, with their parties, not realising that even if they were successful they would just become the new dictator as the labor party did when they replaced the conservatives.

I do oppose war in all its forms whether it is for oil, land or empire or just cos some people get pissed off with eachother.

When Iraq was invaded I was in Manc' when a group of young people all got together to oppose the war. there were no leaders, no strategy, no committee.... and the police had no idea how to control them. It was fresh and vibrant and for a short time it had a chance.

What the STW/SWP/Respect etc do is control, and try to destroy anything that they cannot control, they stifle anything that does not fit within their very defined parameters. And I consider these organisation to be as much as an extension to the governing bodies as I do the police.

Yes oppose the war maybe go to the demo, but do it to your own plan - or try going along with no plan at all!!

You do not have to support STWC to oppose the war

I think there are faults in the STWC, but I don't think it is because they are in this or that sectarian group. I don't think it is because they are "SWP stalinists and bitter old trotskyites" - not that I have enough polical knowledge to understand what that means. I am also not an anarchist, but read Indymedia because it is good at reporting on demonstrations and other political actions, and more skeptical of those in positions of power than the sycophantic media.

I would agree with this to some extent - "We call on all anti-war activists to reclaim the movement from these goons before it's too late." I agree from the point of view that those in the anti-war should be prepared to speak out if they disagree with the positions of the national centre (the stop the war officers). For example if they are embarassed by Galloway with his glorification of Hezbollah or his antics on Big Brother or his performance as an MP (voting record or any other issues). The answer is obviously to reform the anti-war movement into something better, not demolish it.

The problem with the anti-war movement to me is their biggest failure so far which was their neutral position at election time. I was in my local group at that time (and am still a member) and could not believe that I was standing at the street stall unable to express my anti-war view that I was against the pro-war parties and demonstrate for the people not to vote for them. The members of the local group decided they could only take the same position as the national group. That was fair enough but if the leadership from national level was different then that would have made a difference. If that neutral position had not been taken then we might have been in a completely different position now. There may have been no need for thousands of people to waste their time swarming over to Manchester for the 'Time to Go' demonstration next weekend. Not that their slogans will tell Labour (or even Blair) to go. The 'Time to Go' slogan refers to the troops in Iraq, so no change there from the usual slogans on the various marches.

On a STW march earlier in the year Stop the War officers, in their speeches, were saying say could 'feel' that Blair's time was up which I thought was rather sinister considering that there was no evidence at the time that he was about to go. Let's hope that it is not just Tony Blair that goes, and not the likes of Claire Short who were more skeptical of the war that goes, but ALL of the Labour MPs and other MPs who voted in favour of the war. THAT would be a REAL anti-war demonstration if it were to happen.

Having said the above I wish anyone going good luck and hope that it has some effect.

The anti-war movement in this country from a promising start in which nationwide people responded to the attacks on Afghanistan with outbursts of spontaneous protest has slowly atrophied under the self-proclaimed leadership of the STWC. With the threat of attack hanging over Iran, particularly in light of the massive bombing campaign this will involve, and in full knowledge that it is only our continued opposition that will be able to halt this, we must look at our failings and understand how our aims have been undermined by the limitations of theory and practice that predominate within the movement.

The very fact that this march is organised to coincide with the Labour Party conference points to the limited understanding of what the problem is and how we can face it. Undoubtedly the conference, as itself a spectacular media event, makes it a good opportunity to show our continuing disgust with this war, but the level of critique that is predominant in our movement and continually fails to go beyond attacking Bush and Blair is worse than a hindrance. At all the demonstrations the popular chants have all been about Bush and Blair. The banners, too, mostly directed their anger at the top personalities, calling for them to go. But this only leaves the question of who you expect to replace them, and what would they do differently? This is not Bush’s war, or (slightly better) the neocon’s war, or (worse) the US’s war. This is, like all modern wars, a war about the exigencies of capitalist accumulation, and, as such, must be understood in terms of class, not personalities or policies.

Class enables us to understand this war as theirs not ours, and, at the same time, as an ongoing war against us. It enables us to link the invasion of Iraq, as a necessary step in the self-expansion of US and UK capital (which the supposed separation of politics and economics helps to hide and legitimise), with their need to discipline the working class—internally by rushing through repressive legislation, and in the Middle East with guns, bombs and tanks.

The lack of a consistently presented class analysis of the war goes hand in hand with the inadequate practice of the Stop the War Coalition. The self-styled leaders of the anti-war movement, a collaboration between left wing labourites like Benn and the Unions, who, themselves, are wedded to the formally democratic political system and hence see the problem in terms of who controls this system; the SWP, who shy away from class and toe a populist anti-Bush/Blair line, as a part of an opportunist strategy of vote grabbing for their Galloway led Respect agenda; and the pacifist CND, who put their faith in international law and diplomacy, channel our dissent along politically acceptable and, hence, conformist lines. March routes are organised and agreed in accordance with the authorities and then policed from both sides (putting in mind the final scene of animal farm where one looks from the farmers to the pigs and can’t tell which is which), winding their way around to avoid any possible targets of our enmity, towards a rally with a line-up of speakers so boring that we all drift away in ones and twos, as divided and ineffectual as we were before we came.

We need more than this. Just look at the recent struggles in France. The French students in occupying their universities and defending themselves against the police realised that they needed to go beyond the choking limits of official, sanctified protest, or the patient ‘building of the movement’, just as American youth did when they could no longer stomach the war in Vietnam and took its opposition into their own hands forcing the state to withdraw, unable to pursue its aims on both fronts at once.

We must therefore disrupt capital: unofficial protests, strikes, roadblocks, occupations, direct action. We must escalate our own ability to attack capital at every opportunity. Not just because it is the only way in which we can prevent further bloodshed in the Middle East but because it is the only way to pursue our own freedom at home.

Still, no one has really asserted an alternative. i mean, what does direct action achieve? also not too much. blocking a road for half an hour etc neither does voting, demonstrations, or anything else. what if this is simply the case at the moment, nothing does much but we still need to carry on!

"i mean, what does direct action achieve?"
-Did the Poll tax actions pass you by?
-know much about Ghandi?

Imagine if everyone on the STWC marches was even just a little more militant, like refusing to pay council tax, picketing Army recruitment shops, could even organise strikes with those numbers. I think the impact would be a lot greater, and it would grow.

On the basis of this comment, Thank fuck that the anarchist do not have any influence inside the anti-war movement,if they did the ruling elite would be so relieved to see the forces against them so incoherent and shambolic. If the anacharist had it there way we would be in a state of perminent war rather than the ruling class being on the defensive.

It is lies to say that the STWC has restrained action, in fact the opposite is true, it provides confidence for people to stage direct action and for military families to be more vocal and orangised against the British army.

Tell me the last anti-war movement that managed to stop the war, the Vietnem war lasted 9 years before the troops were pulled.

The demonstration planned for Manchester is in my view is tactatically correct. There has been a long process of wearing the war mongers down, if anything the movement is gaining ground, more MPs have come out against the war in particular the invasion of Lebanon.

Last thing

"Meanwhile an anarchist bloc will be present on the Manchester March. Meet at 12.30 in the Peace Gardens, just round the corner from Albert Square on the day of the march. They'll be the lot with the red and black flags".

That will be all 15 of you then? Sad bastard

red letter wrote:

"It is lies to say that the STWC has restrained action, in fact the opposite is true, it provides confidence for people to stage direct action"

care to back that up by actually pointing us to some STWC inspired DA?

oh hang on a minute:

red letter also wrote:

"That will be all 15 of you then?"

You clearly missed a lot of demos lately. If thats evidence of your political acumen then who cares wtf you think?

What about the Raytheon occupation, or the military families group that are making a stand against manchester council over their plan peace camp.

check out the bbc report regarding military families and the report below

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/5341924.stm



[4.40pm Thu 10 Aug]
Derry anti-war protesters arrested after Raytheon occupation

by Simon Basketter

Nine anti-war protesters, including socialist and civil rights campaigner Eamonn McCann, are in jail in Northern Ireland for occupying an arms manufacturer

The demonstrators stormed the Derry base of US arms manufacturer Raytheon on Wednesday 9 August, barricading themselves into the building.

Raytheon produce software for Guided Missile Units (GBU) currently being used by Israel’s army in its assault on Lebanon.

Raytheon’s computer system was "completely disabled", according to the protesters, and thousands of documents were thrown from windows. A banner was unfurled from inside the building, reading “Raytheon has been decommissioned”.

Speaking from inside as dozens of uniformed police gathered, Eamonn McCann said, “The people of Derry cannot go on feeling shock and horror as they watch TV screens and do nothing.

“People felt they had no option but to take this form of direct action.”

A statement from the Derry Anti-War Coalition reads, “The protest was prompted by the current barbaric Israeli assault on Lebanon and Gaza, which has claimed over thousand lives in just a few weeks. Many of the innocent lives lost have resulted from the use of GBUs produced by Raytheon.

“It is tragic that the Raytheon factory was held up at the time of its opening as an example of the ‘peace dividend’ for the North, when its function is exporting death and destruction to innocent people in Lebanon.

“The Irish people have a witnessed first hand the brutality and conflict brought by colonialism and empire. We should be playing no part in inflicting that suffering on others.

“Given the carnage we are now witnessing in Lebanon and Gaza there is simply no excuse for such weapons of death being produced.”

After eight hours the occupation was ended by over 100 riot police storming the building.

Speaking from the back of a police Land Rover at Strand Road police barracks after being arrested, a handcuffed Eamonn McCann said, “They came in riot gear and surrounded us in the room. We were playing cards at the time. We were arrested for burglary and criminal damage.”

On Thursday 10 August morning a crowd of several dozen people gathered at the court in Derry, chanting anti-war slogans as they awaited the arrival of the police convoy carrying the protesters.

The nine anti-war activists were charged overnight with aggravated burglary with intent to cause unlawful damage. They were also charged with unlawful assembly.

These charges are "scheduled" offences under “anti-terrorist” legislation, meaning that the cases can be heard by juryless Diplock Court.

All nine were remanded in custody until 7 September when they will appear before the same court via videolink.

after all this time, you can offer us one action in an occupied country, and actions based on the fact that people have lost family members in wars.

Cindy Sheehan was probably more of an inspiration for that than the STWC.

Your case is not proven.

how sad is this posting. we hate them, they hate us, and we are all supposed to be on the same side. God, it is no wonder we couldn;t stop the war.

its not about being hateful but being critical of our own and others actions. its about challenging the hegemony of STWC because we think it is wrong, rather than blindly following anybody because they lead and we don't want to split/weaken--a logic whose similarities with what we should be opposing are pretty obvious on reflection. the anti-war movement has become a popular front, in which all sorts of unsavoury elements are free to flourish. "We are all Hizbullah", i don't think so, but the leftists positively promote this kind of chanting rather than see it as a problem. the SWP are in Respect; it is a parliamentary party; it needs votes, this is its logic; it will deceive, obfuscate and be opportunistic to get them, just like all the other parties; this is not good for the anti-war movement and so must be said. Its not simply about hating anyone but about aspiring for some sort of truth, which unforunately appears to have been one the first casualties of anti-war.

I think Renshaw is talking sectarian nonsense.There is a world of difference between those mainstream newspapers which have basically supported the war with occasional lapses and a paper like Social Worker which has consistently challenged and opposed the lies and the drive to war.If you cannot see that your analysis is about as useful as a chocolate soldier in the desert sun.
THe SWP has long opposed the capitalist wars and adventures we have faced.Galloway has been an effective and outspoken opponent of the war...and yes I think he should have stayed out of BB but what the hell there are worse crimes such as dropping napalm on civilians and sending young soldiers to die for lies and oil.
There are some right sectarians crowing away about the TIME TO GO demonstration.....really if they dont approve of it why dont they stay away. They will not be missed.
david

Being as unfond of the SWP as this article and many posters, I have to say it is inaccurate and defeatist to portray anti government protest as totally dominated by the SWP / MAB etc.

Yes, the SWP have tried to hiack the movement as they do with most, but how many of the many thousands gathering at a host of events this week are members? A minority for sure.

And it stands to reason that the more people who turn up who aint members, the less they can dominate.

Although I have sympathy with some of the article I find the anti SWP obsession actually gives them more attention than they probably deserve.