The BNP and the Northern Green Gathering

AntiBNP | 21.08.2006 23:54 | Anti-racism

What happens when Nazi scum meet hippy scum? Apparently some of them got on famously.

While some of those attending this year's Northern Green Gathering may well have attended ignorant of the fact that the organisers of the NGG had booked the same farm as the BNP have used for the past 4 years (

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/08/346768.html?c=all) others were certainly aware of the situation - and didn't care. The organisers have kept resolutely 'schtum', and Indymedia has already been treated to reports of senior fascists wandering round the NGG site, not only unmolested, but apparently being made very welcome.

One report (

http://www.hebdenbridgenews.com/) reads as follows:

"It was a bit of a washout really, but the mud wasn't too bad, and everyone seemed to enjoy themselves. Earlier in the week there were one or two stragglers from the BNP rally that had taken place the previous weekend. Apparently they were "actually quite nice" and "brought us flowers" said one cafe owner. S'pose hippie festivals are a mainly white affair so I guess they would be quite nice."

Other reports and comments can be found on the other thread.

This is a shameful episode. Never trust a hippy!

AntiBNP

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Comments

Hide the following 79 comments

Yes! And so...?

22.08.2006 02:55

Yes, I too stayed away from the Northern Green, because
i)It was on the Nazi scum BNP's former fash-fest site
ii))I also have too much too much work on at the moment.
iii) besides, it was raining lots and the northern green is generally shite where you cant even have a proper dance.

But what is your point?

a)All Greens are impotent liberals who suck up to fascists??
b) All Greens are fascists?
c)'Never trust a hippy'? (Therfore your 'antifascism' is merely part of an anrcho-punk ghetto within a retro-1970's tribal/subcultural war aginst hippies?)
OR:
d) We should boycott or otherwise attempt to challenge and change the policy of the farmer -somehow persuade them that no one should give any space to the fascist scum and that there are better options for them?

Please clarify: Better writing and politics are necessary here. I have loads of friends who are greens, and even possibly even 'hippies', but who are also reasonably militant opponents of the fascist BNP scumbags. Friends of mine went to the Green gathering. I'll have a chat with them now they are arriving home. But normally even these 'greenie hippies' are generally decent folks who would give the BNP Nazis a good punch or two where they meet.

Btw: Option 'd' gets my vote - but the above post sounds too much like a partisan for option 'c'

Bazza-r

Never trust the NGG

22.08.2006 02:58

Not sure about 'never trust a hippy' cos I know some nice ones but I sure as hell won't be going to NGG again - ever! They knew this was the case and they chose to ignore it so to hell with them. Spread the word and boycott the Northern Green Gathering forever!

Perhaps the NGG organisers would like to explain the thinking behind this fiasco to everyone who is concerned about it, particularly any LGBT, black, Muslim, Jewish or anti-fascist hippies who might be looking in.

Jewish Hippy

Boycott the NGG

22.08.2006 07:05

I agree with JH, this is far too important a matter to simply ignore it or let it pass, The NGG organisers deserve to be completely shunned, what they have done is a disgrace. I am sure that most Greens who went without knowing about this were appalled when they found out what had happened, but the words of the cafe owner cited are sad;ly rather typical of many "hippy" or "green" capitalists. This year's organisers have brought shame on the NGG amd should be held accountable. I'm not talking about beating them up (obviously), but people in Leeds or who were at the NGG must know who they are.

Green anti-fascist

Totally confused -- SOMETHING is missing (the point)

22.08.2006 12:59

Has something been left out? An important detail which would make sense of the complaint? Like perhaps a formal boycott had been declared against this venue which rents out space for gatherings to punish them for having rented to the BNP ---- and the Northern Greens ignored your declared boycott campaign? NO? You meant something along the lines that THEY should have initiated a boycott campaign on their own -- even though DIRECT opposition to the BNP is orthogonal to their purpose of being (you in effect are being critical of them on the same basis you would criticise a chess club for the people having gathered to play chess -- instead of being anti BNP).

The "hippies" (real hippies) are in their own way just as "political" as you are. Except their "war" is against more of society than JUST the capitalist exploiters (and no, I am not nor ever was a "hippy", but Penny was).

Besides, just who exactly are you calling "hippies" here? Greens? You mean anybody who doesn't want to replace environment destroying capitalist industrial society with environmant destroying socialist industrial society is a "hippie"?

Mike Novack
mail e-mail: stepbystpefarm mtdata.com

Ypou cnanot shop your way out of climate change or worker exploitation

22.08.2006 13:26

A reminder perhaps that the environment is a race and class issue? ( yep and gender )

There's so much greenwash around now I don't know who's worse - the ignorant pratts of the BNP ( who often seem to work with and have a lot more black and brown mates - is it really all black and white? ) or the bourgious scum trying to make money out of climate chaos ( and other causes ) with their green ( sic )captialism and bullshit NGO work.

Actually they are both racist - just one lot is a bit more sophisticated in their explotiation of the majority world ( and in their excuses ).

Just saying I'm not racist and buying Green & Black's is alright then Guardian readers and champagne socialists? Your havin a larf. The poinbi is always that race, cass and gender cannot be seperated as they are all part of the same power games e.g See how the 70s/80's feminist movement ended up exploiting working class women then imploded ( fucking arses like GG and KCWC etc. )

Then you should still talk to these people and try to change their minds- or just have a dialogue with the converted ( almost exclusively white middle class green activist movement? ). People seem to be able to fy to Greece to attend meetings yet cannot even address their local estate.

Nuff siad.

ps. still, shit the NGG using the same site , tho' looking at the programme it looked rather authoritarian.

pps. why don't people blow up the ECGD?

harry roberts

BNP VIOLENT

22.08.2006 15:26

The BNP's leaders have actively enouraged violence and race hatred. The BNP's leaders are in the same tradition as the National Front. The BNP have openly published leaflets showing people of Asian appearance apparently burning a UK flag, are actively recruiting from criminal fraternities, and have encouraged their members to harass people of Asian complexions. One of their members told me "there are a lot of boot boys in the BNP". They run campaigns of violent intimidation against critics. There's much, much more on the web. The BNP may currently be presenting their policies as reasonable, and in the interests of the British people, but then Hitler did not come to power promising to kill all Jewish people, either. In fact, most Germans did not know, or were in desperate denial, about the millions murdered. I have deep sympathy for anyone who is suckered into voting for the BNP, but would really urge them to check who they're getting into bed with.

NEVER AGAIN!

22.08.2006 16:43

Candice-Marie says: "Never Again! Sod the BNP and bollocks to the NGG!"

Candice-Marie!

fascist bnp

22.08.2006 16:47

the bnp is not fascist?! Take a look at this Indymedia post

https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/leedsbradford/2006/08/348598.html

antinazi

ngg

22.08.2006 16:48

I know one of the organizers - 'Dylan' - But he's so far round the bend you wouldn't get any sense out of him. Some of the others are more experienced green 'activists' (though liberal) and must have known exactly what they were doing

antinazi

Hippies

22.08.2006 17:02

My 'never trust a hippy' comment was a throwaway one (and admittedly a Sex Pistols reference.) I didn't think anyone actually self-defined as a hippy! Apologies to anyone who boycotted this festival and was offended. As for the organisers and those who palled up the BNP on site, I couldn't give a flying fuck whether you're offended or not. And don't try and put words into my mouth Mike Novack, I'm an environmental activist myself, but for me Green politics is not some liberal single issue which allows me to comfortably ignore the threat posed by the BNP.

AntiBNP

Boycott

22.08.2006 17:29

Who the hell would give money to a businessman who has tacitly supported the BNP for the past 4 years?! I'm not sure which is worse from the NGG organizers, their virtual silence on this matter, or the prevaricative bullshit 3 of their number have expressed.

Sickened

Boycott helps who?

22.08.2006 17:46

Will boycotting such a gathering help stop the BNP or will it help put a cog in the movement? Such gatherings for myself as an activist have been highly inspiring and I have learnt a lot from them. I think we need to be more tolerant as movements and not break up at every opportunity. Most spaces you use for festivals, meetings, etc will no doubt be used by unethcial companies. Lets remember who we are targeting. The targets are not each other.

Love

Robo

A further insult from the NGG

22.08.2006 18:09

Arrogant Mike Novack pretends he can't make sense of the complaint against the NGG - Bullshit! If a printer was producing BNP propaganda any person worth a toss wouldn't give them business, and it's the same with any business that (directly or indirectly) supports fascism. For most of us, that's a natural instinct, like not crossing picket-lines, not being a scab, in fact like solidarity in general. You may not have that instinct Mike Novack, but I doubt you're so stupid that you can't see why people are angry with NGG, perhaps it's Indymedia readers you think are stupid, stupid enough to fall for that drivel; We're not.

Red N Black

No tolerance for fascism or it's appeasers

22.08.2006 18:14

You may have found Northern Green Gathering's inspiring Robo, but there's no reason why the NGG had to share a site with the BNP and cause this rift. They have treated the whole movement with contempt.

Red N Black

The ethical choice

22.08.2006 18:23

I like Body Shop products, but when they were bought out by L'Oreal I said I would no longer shop there. I don't buy Kit-Kats and any number of other products because they are owned by Nestle, and I don't shop at Marks & Spencers because they support Israel. In short I am an ethical consumer, I try to be anyway, I think about what I buy, and am prepared to spend a little extra to make an ethical choice. It's quite a small thing, no great hardship really, and it will be easy enough for me not to go to the Northern Green gathering again, it's a choice I'll only have to make once a year, and there are other festivals to go to, and I don't want to give money to someone who helps the BNP.

June Bug

HIPPY

22.08.2006 19:29

You ARE a hippy Mike, and Mini-Me Dylan, you're both slightly-mad lifestylists stuck in a time-warp, harking back to a reality you're both too young to have experienced the first time round - especially that idiot Dylan. And once again you have demonstrated your complete political cluelessness, your arrogance, and your selfishness. Maybe the original poster should have wrote "Never trust a middle-class liberal lifestylist!"

Paul

hippies dont kill people

23.08.2006 15:17

the bnp is not very nice. My mum says to stay away from them and from people who support them. There are lots of fields and farms to play with my friends but my mum says to stay away from the farms and fields that the bnp hangs out at.

hippies are nice. they play the guitar. Guitars make music.

crocodile snap

NGG trader & antifascist

23.08.2006 18:08

I have worked at NGG before & although was working somewhere else, I did prep work for it.I have found it a good festival, this year I know people who worked there & felt the land was desecrated,they were told NGG would be looking for a new site & word from other activists is NGG only knew about BNP just beforehand.
But if BNP has used this site for 4yrs NGG should officially apologise to the movement as a whole or next years festival is going to be even more shit, if it happens!
They also made mistake of making it a NGG members festival only & then opened it all at the weekend, only 400 attended a shame from most reports,come on NGG!
We need written apologies to all traders, festival goers & funds to groups like ANTIFA now, with evidence!

My grandad was an Austrian gardener who fought his way from Austria in 1930's to Poland then helped lead the RAF squadrons against NAZI scum who murdered & tortured people like us,plus,travellers,activists,decent people & our children, wake up!!!!!!!!!
My gran & mum were sent to Gulags by Stalin, we could debate who was worse though its a fact Hitler the Nazis did more damage during their sick regime, Its also a fact that both were manipulated & did massive business with companies led by Exxon then called Standard Oil & banks connected to this company who controlled IG Farben who still control the G8 & most of the world via "informal" corporate meetings like "Bilderberg" with a Malthusian population control philosophy, Exxon just made biggest quartly profit of any corporation ever.
Fascism is Corporatism as Mussolini said, we must boycott as much of it as possible, the BNP with links to Colonel Gadaffi & Ulster fascist heroin dealers are the last resort of corpatism which covertly supports them,
Their death squad wing who corporate leaders then dispose of when the dirty work is done, even if many of their members are too blind to realise it,
NGG please send funds to ANTIFA or Searchlight now with evidence & apologise or give some decent explanations now!!!!!!!!
Joni
Veggies Ltd worker

joni
mail e-mail: sparkeee1@hotmail.com

Good post Joni

23.08.2006 18:45

An excellent post Joni, and I fully agree with you. Sadly though, I think the truth is that the NGG organisers knew about this situation well in advance, and you only have to look at their posts on this and the other thread to see their attitude. They're currently saying they made a loss, hardly surprising when they insisted on (effectively) laying down next to the BNP, and squandered thousands of $'s on stupid things. As well as giving £2,000 to this greedy, BNP supporting farmer.

Black and green anti-fascist

RAF heroes

23.08.2006 19:39

"My grandad was an Austrian gardener who fought his way from Austria in 1930's to Poland then helped lead the RAF squadrons against NAZI scum who murdered & tortured people like us..."

Is that the same RAF who firebombed German cities that were NOT strategic targets, incinerating women, kids and old people such as Dresden when the war was almost over?

Bomber Harris

Fuck off Nazi!

23.08.2006 19:59

Yawn! Fuck off Nazi! When did you vermin ever give a toss about kids? How do you square the '14 words' with the fact that half of you are paedophiles?

Antifascist

Nazis

23.08.2006 20:01

And thats the sort of scum the NGG want to lie down next to

Joe

Joe

Fine post Joni

23.08.2006 23:18

Well said - and it's great to see so many angry responses both on this and the other thread that's running on Indymedia. Ignore all the BNP shitheads who post - they love to see dissent anywhere they can spread it.

If NGG is held at the same place next year, how many do you reckon will attend? Apart, that is, from ex-hippy, now nazi, Nick Cass.

Big middle-finger to the NGG organisers for ignoring this!

Jewish Hippy

I'm angry too.

23.08.2006 23:43

I agree 'Jewish Hippy', and think the organisers of the Northern Green have arrogantly underestimated the strength of public feeling about this. They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, along with the B.N.P.

Old feller

Act NOW Northern Green!

24.08.2006 00:16

I only found out about this matter whilst I was at the gathering, and if I had known about it before I would certianly not have gone. I agree with the person above, the organisers should be issuing an honest explanation, an unreserved apology, and making a substantial donation to a bonified ant-fascist organisation to try and off-set some of the harm they have caused. If they are not prepared to do that, even at this late stage, I think those of us who have been misled into giving money to this nasty farmer should be asking for a portion of our money back and boycotting the event in future. I am very angry that the organisers tried to keep this quiet, and I feel like I have been tarnished in some way by attending. It is a very bad affair.

Tony

A few quick points

24.08.2006 08:05

First, for those of you who find the "silence of the organisers" a problem, perhaps you would like to consider that we all have been rather busy over the last few weeks. Organising a gathering is extremely hard work. My part was only a tiny section of the gathering, and yet I've been doing 12-16 hour days most of the time since my last post, and spent lots of that time onsite away from a computer. Other organisers have been much busier than I. Don't think that we haven't spoken because we're ignoring you.
Another reason I didn't personally respond the other week is that most of the early replies were just abuse and veiled threats, and only later did people start to write constructive comments about this.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that some posts on the original thread smack of hatred and arrogance, qualities I would expect dedicated antiracists to be rather against. My point being, there wasn't exactly an open invitation for reasoned argument and discussion.

Second, don't any of you assume that NGG organisers were happy about sharing the site with the BNP, cos we weren't. Of course we were in the wrong, and now I realise just how many people are upset by this, I regret agreeing to be involved in an event on that site. I know next to nothing about antifascism stuff and had no idea of the lengths some of you will go to fight your cause. This is really commendable, but I still say that protesting the BNP gathering itself rather than just blaming us might be a more positive course of action.
I expect that the main organisers will in time say something more official about this, but for my part it was a tradeoff - it seemed very unlikely that there would ever be another NGG unless one happened this year, and we were struggling to find any site at all. Call it opportunism if you like, but know that it was done begrudgingly. I won't get involved if the same site is chosen next year, I'd be shocked if it was. There are other reasons that the site is unsuitable long-term - it's not an organic farm and public transport access is a bit naff.

Third, I know nothing about the money offered to the farmer or what deals went on. I expect that it was a rather miniscule amount compared to his annual budget (similar sized gatherings/festivals all summer) but no, that doesn't make it more acceptable. I don't agree though, that what we did was akin to holding an antivivisection meeting in HLS - that statement makes it appear that the farm itself is the official BNP headquarters. For me it was more like going in a local shop where the local BNP characters also shop. Someone said, would we have done it there if there was a nuclear industry gathering on the same site, well of course we bloody wouldn't because it's in DIRECT contravention of what NGG stands for and educates about. Global understanding, peace and harmony (which includes race issues) are in the remit of any environmental organisation, for sure, and I hoped that under the circumstances, some antifascist peeps would have been happy to run a campaign stall for us at NGG and show us all how it's done. Shame that didn't happen.

Lastly, before I run out of time for now, I just want to add that in lots of ways the event was a stomping success, despite the rain, and I hope that with some sensible debate on this topic, and a new more appropriate site next year, it will be better and more effective in the future.

Stu

BNP at the NGG

24.08.2006 16:00

I went to the Northern Green with my little boy. I hadn't heard anything about the BNP using the site, but I soon found out about it, and wish that I had never gone. On the THursday night I was sitting round the fire with some other people that I didn't know. There were a few kids playing nearby. A group of men with skinhead haircuts came over, they had some children with them too. They had quite a lot of cans of beer with them and offered them around, they seemed friendly enough. Then it turned out they had been at the red, white and blue festival, they said they had stayed on as guests of the farmer. They also said that they had been organising "a nationalist poetry competition" for children - This was on Thursday at the Northern Green! I felt sickened, but was afraid to say anything, and so I just went away I am ashamed to say. I am so angry that I even came into contact with these people, and even more angry that my child did. How dare you Northern Green, I will NEVER go again.

Anon

More lies from the ngg

24.08.2006 16:11

"Another reason I didn't personally respond the other week is that most of the early replies were just abuse and veiled threats"

Really? I've just read through that thread and you're a liar.

Green antiracist

A few points for Stu

24.08.2006 17:32

“First, for those of you who find the "silence of the organisers" a problem”

Arrogant and a tad disingenuous right from the first line. Many people seem to find your silence a problem, but for me what yourselves and the other organizers have had to say is even worse.

“perhaps you would like to consider that we all have been rather busy over the last few weeks.”

You’re not the only people who are busy, and most of us haven’t been busy cohabiting with the BNP. Your treachery has made the job of antiracists and antifascists harder, and we’re not some breed apart as you’d ignorantly like to stereotype us, many of us are also involved in environmental politics.

“Organising a gathering is extremely hard work. My part was only a tiny section of the gathering, and yet I've been doing 12-16 hour days most of the time since my last post, and spent lots of that time onsite away from a computer. Other organisers have been much busier than I.”

I’ve been involved in organizing similar gatherings to the NGG. However busy you have been there is no excuse for what the NGG have done.

”Another reason I didn't personally respond the other week is that most of the early replies were just abuse and veiled threats”

That frankly is bullshit. Bearing in mind what you have done, and your arrogant response when it was made public, you have got off very lightly. People may have called for a boycott, rightly so in my opinion, but you have not been threatened, that is rubbish from what I’ve seen. The NGG have a website where you could have been open and honest about this, you chose not to be, presumably in the hope that you could keep it from your potential ‘customers’. This problem has been created by YOU, the NGG organizers, not by people who are upset by what you have done.

”In fact I'd go so far as to say that some posts on the original thread smack of hatred and arrogance, qualities I would expect dedicated antiracists to be rather against.”

How dare you lecture anyone after what you have done, arrogance is dripping off every line you’ve written.

“My point being, there wasn't exactly an open invitation for reasoned argument and discussion.”

Not happy with Indymedia, you could have used your own website. Your disingenuousness is SO transparent. And again, what arrogance, having the cheek to whine when you shared a site with the BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY and gave money (taken from Green activists) to the farmer who has accommodated and supported them for the past 4 years.

”Second, don't any of you assume that NGG organisers were happy about sharing the site with the BNP, cos we weren't.”

Happy enough to go ahead and share the site, happy enough to set up alongside them, and if reports are to be believed, happy enough to have them wandering round the site.

“Of course we were in the wrong, and now I realise just how many people are upset by this, I regret agreeing to be involved in an event on that site.”

Really? Incredible. Why you didn’t just post that in capital letters and spare us all your other guff? But it seems you weren’t upset enough to cancel when you originally found out about this, and at your meetings you all seemed more upset about the fact it was made public, and about possibly making a loss. If any of you had any integrity at all you wouldn’t need a thread of this size to prick your consciences and make you feel “regret”.

“I know next to nothing about antifascism stuff”

Where do you live on the moon?! For most Green activists, antifascism is part and parcel of our principles. The fact you say you know next to nothing about “antifascism stuff” has not stopped you spouting off about it has it?

“and had no idea of the lengths some of you will go to fight your cause.”

Now why does that sound like an insult rather than a compliment? The lengths we’ll go to, well you have no idea, but in this case we’re talking about a few cross words!

“This is really commendable, but I still say that protesting the BNP gathering itself rather than just blaming us might be a more positive course of action.”

But you don’t know anything about this “antifascism stuff do you Stu? So why don’t you keep your opinions on it to yourself until you’ve learned just a wee bit more?

”I expect that the main organisers will in time say something more official about this”

Really? Are they all busy still? Hope they’re going to come up with something better than the twaddle that was posted a few days ago.

“but for my part it was a tradeoff - it seemed very unlikely that there would ever be another NGG unless one happened this year”

Do you think that the cause of Green politics has been advanced by the NGG this year Stu? Or even that the behaviour of this year’s organizers has been good for the reputation of the NGG? I’m sure that past organizers of the NGG share the view of others on this site in wishing that there had not been a NGG this year if that meant the despiccable arrangement that occurred.

“and we were struggling to find any site at all.”

Funny how Earth First! manage it every year, and without chemical toilets or hired security, and they always have genuinely environmentally-friendly locations.

“Call it opportunism if you like”

Oh, I call it worse than that. What eventually occurred amounts to appeasement.

”Third, I know nothing about the money offered to the farmer or what deals went on.”

How can that be? TWO GRAND as I understand it.

“I expect that it was a rather miniscule amount compared to his annual budget (similar sized gatherings/festivals all summer) but no, that doesn't make it more acceptable.”

So what? No, it isn’t acceptable, so why are you prevaricating?

“Someone said, would we have done it there if there was a nuclear industry gathering on the same site, well of course we bloody wouldn't because it's in DIRECT contravention of what NGG stands for and educates about.”

Really? How very telling. So you don’t consider being on the same site as a fascist rally to be in direct contravention of what NGG stands for??!!!

“Global understanding, peace and harmony (which includes race issues) are in the remit of any environmental organisation, for sure, and I hoped that under the circumstances, some antifascist peeps would have been happy to run a campaign stall for us at NGG and show us all how it's done. Shame that didn't happen.”

What??!! For a start you didn’t ASK any “antifascist peeps” (we’re the same bloody “peeps” as you) to run a stall, but don’t try and turn this round. “Under the circumstances”? What is that supposed to mean, you? How dishonest and disingenuous. The “circumstances” were that you were you were going to share a site with the BNP and give money to the man who has accommodated them for the past 4 years, and the only response of the NGG organizers and defenders was to attack antifascists and otherwise keep the matter ‘quiet’. In those “circumstances” why would any antifascist organization want anything to do with you?

”Lastly, before I run out of time for now, I just want to add that in lots of ways the event was a stomping success, despite the rain, and I hope that with some sensible debate on this topic, and a new more appropriate site next year, it will be better and more effective in the future.”

Since words fail me, I’ll let yours speak for yourself. I think most Indymedia readers will view them with the contempt they deserve.

Environmentalist Antifascist

Grow up...

25.08.2006 09:24

...and get a life. This is all so boring.

Bored now...

WE WON'T FORGET

25.08.2006 12:10

" Grow up...

25.08.2006 11:24
...and get a life. This is all so boring.

Bored now... "

YOU FASCIST APPEASING SCUM MIGHT THINK THIS IS JUST GOING TO GO AWAY, AND THAT YOU'VE GOT AWAY WITH IT - YOU'RE WRONG!

Black n Red

Shame

25.08.2006 12:29

You sad self-abusing little nothings, you talk about ‘bashing’ & ‘smashing’ with your ‘anti’ this and ‘anti’ that.
Well here's a well overdue reality check for you. YOU are the fascists YOU are the scum. The NGG is an organisation based upon hope, and not the mindless HATRED I have found on this thread. You should be utterly ashamed of yourselves. Go and look in a mirror!

Anne

Anne

The real damage..

25.08.2006 13:05

The real damage caused by this affair goes way beyond the NGG putting a couple of Grand in the pockets of the BNP's pet farmer. In addition to this, they have assisted the BNP in their current 'normalization' subterfuge strategy, wherby they are attempting to hide the fact that they are a fascist organization, and con people into thinking of them as just another political party.

Bearing in mind what the NGG have done, and the upset they have caused to their own 'members', who I rather doubt expected to be bumping into the Yorkshire BNP organizer and his cohorts at the Northern Green Gathering, their responses on Indymedia really have been quite astonishing.

Appalled by the NGG

The Shame Of The NGG

25.08.2006 13:13

"You sad self-abusing little nothings, you talk about ‘bashing’ & ‘smashing’ with your ‘anti’ this and ‘anti’ that.
Well here's a well overdue reality check for you. YOU are the fascists YOU are the scum. The NGG is an organisation based upon hope, and not the mindless HATRED I have found on this thread. You should be utterly ashamed of yourselves. Go and look in a mirror!"

Anne

Once again we're shown EXACTLY what contempt the NGG organisers have for those who attended ignorant of the BNP's presence, and contempt for antiracists in general.

There has been no talk whatsoever about 'bashing and smashing'. Can none of you NGG organisers ever tell the truth?

This post speaks volumes about what this scum really think; the BNP are not the fascists, it's those who "mindlessly" oppose them. It is YOU who should be ashamed of yourself Anne, it is the NGG who have assisted the cause of hatred, you are despiccable. I will NEVER go to an Northern Green Gathering again, and after people read your post I hope nobody else will. How dare you, once again, turn this into an attack upon anti-racism.

Green antiracist

fao of anne

25.08.2006 13:25

your post has got to be the funniest yet.'' ngg is based upon hope'' and wanting a world without racist/fascist scum bags isn't ? pray tell darling , do you actually like humans or do you prefer to frollick with little cuddly cutsey bunny rabbits ? I'm really hoping that our paths meet at some point as I resent being called scum by anyone , the ngg have been slated on here for a reason , if you don't get it ,what gives you the right to call us anti fascists ''scum'' , on a subject like anti fascism there's no neutrality ,no fence sitting , your either against prejudice or your for it... regards C.O.G

concerned of gipton

"Sad, self-abusing little nothings"

25.08.2006 13:41

That's what the NGG organizers think of antiracists. Nice.

Antifascist

Still bored...

25.08.2006 13:48

"YOU FASCIST APPEASING SCUM MIGHT THINK THIS IS JUST GOING TO GO AWAY, AND THAT YOU'VE GOT AWAY WITH IT - YOU'RE WRONG!

Black n Red "

Actually I was referring to both parties. Some of us come on Indymedia to read an alternative viewpoint the the corporate media, not a load of stupid arguments, however "important" the issue.

Bored now...

Bored?

25.08.2006 22:34

Then why don't you just piss off mate, and stop making pointless posts?

Arnold

No confidence in the organisers

25.08.2006 22:41

I am sure that the disgraceful statement by Anne is not representative of most Northern Green goers who abhor the BNP and are not happy with having shared a site with them. We, NGG members, should get together and issue a statement of no-confidence in the organisers who for many of us have betrayed the principles of the NGG.

Mollie

Campaigning against the BNP's fascist rally

25.08.2006 22:49

As reported FOUR YEARS AGO:

Scupper Nazi hate festival
THE PEOPLE of Sawley, near Clitheroe in Lancashire, are going all out to stop a BNP festival of hate taking place on 17 and 18 August. Burnley is nearby, where the local council banned the ANL carnival from taking place. Yet a mob of 1,000 Nazis is set to descend on Sawley. After a series of vicious racist attacks and riots in Burnley last year, the BNP conned its way into three council seats.

People in Sawley have been so outraged by the BNP that they have drafted an anti-Nazi petition and collected signatures. Others horrified by the BNP and its Nazi ideas have written letters of complaint to the Home Office, the police and the local council. The hate festival is aimed at hardening up new people the BNP has drawn around it.

BNP Führer Griffin wants to hold the event at Dockber Laithe Farm in Sawley. Complain to the owner of the farm by phoning 01200 440 293. Opposition to the Nazis has come from all quarters, including Sawley's Quakers, local shops, and the area's MP, Nigel Evans. He has written to Home Office minister John Denham calling on him to ban the BNP event.

Last Tuesday residents handed in copies of the petition to the chief executive of Ribble Valley council, while Nigel Evans handed the petition in to the Home Office. Villagers in Diggle near Oldham have already scuppered the BNP's attempts to hold its "festival" there. Together we can stop the BNP.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Demonstrate
STOP THE NAZI BNP FESTIVAL Join the protests in Sawley, Lancashire, Saturday 17 August, 8am, opposite Rose County Foods, Gisburn Road, Sawley (near Clitheroe, off A59) Phone the ANL on 020 7924 0333 or go to www.anl.org.uk for details

ANL member

Northern Green

26.08.2006 08:17

I am glad I have never been to the Northern Green, because reading the inane posts of their organisers shows just how vaccuous they are politically - I have rarely read such drivel as the rubbish that Mike Novack posted, and as for Anne, isn't she just a shining example of what some of these so-called "hippies" are really like underneath?

Sceptic

All about ego

26.08.2006 08:46

I KNOW this has been a big issue at NGG meetings, I KNOW the organizers know they fucked up. Yet, their egos don't seem to be able to allow them to apologise, instead they have blindly gone 'on the attack'. You really need to grow up NGG organisers, come to terms with just how badly you fucked up, stop making excuses, stop slagging off anti-fascists, and start making amends. Otherwise you will have to bear responsibility for fucking over the NGG COMPLETELY.

Green Man

Fuck you Anne

26.08.2006 10:25

"YOU are the fascists YOU are the scum. The NGG is an organisation based upon hope, and not the mindless HATRED I have found on this thread. "

"Mindless HATRED"?! You want to have a look at some of the forums your new Nazi mates look at you stupid fucking idiot. A recent thread on VNN is about a pregnant black woman and her young children having white paint thrown over them by a racist gang. The only regret shown by any of the crowing Nazis is that it wasn't acid instead of paint. Fascism is a daily reality for some people, we can't all live in nice cosy middle-class ghettoes like the organisers of the NGG seems to do. Anne you are SCUM, good people have to put up with racist attacks because of worthless hypocrites like you, with their heads so far up their own arses, they can't see a thing, and think their shit smells better than everyone else's.

Black N Red

Mindless hatred?

26.08.2006 11:28

Mindless hatred Anne? No the hatred of antifascists is TARGETTED; against racism, sexism, homophobia, and all forms of bigotry. You seem more comfortable turning a blind eye to it.

Bigot hater

Fao 'Stu'

26.08.2006 11:51

“This is really commendable, but I still say that protesting the BNP gathering itself rather than just blaming us might be a more positive course of action.”

It may have escaped your notice, but in the past peaceful antiracist protestors have been prevented from even going near this farm.

No to the BNP

Reassuring

26.08.2006 19:21

I have to say I find this whole thread reassuring in that there's so much immediate opposition to the BNP and the blinkered views of the NGG organisers. You sometimes wonder - not just on Indymedia but elsewhere - whether you're a voice shouting in the wilderness, particularly when a typical response to this issue is one I got just a couple of days ago: 'All I'm doing is going to a fezzy. The BNP are nothing to do with us.' This followed by complete indifference.

This refusal to look at the bigger picture is one reason why the NGG organisers have been held in utter contempt over this whole matter and respondents like Anne (who I suspect is a fascist troll rather than anything to do with NGG) don't help at all.

As far as I and many others are concerned, if nothing is done about this and the NGG organisers look like going for the same location for next year, they are going to find themselves on the wrong end of a very energetic boycott and protest. The length of this thread and the obvious anger of some of the contributors will ensure its success and will make damn sure the campaign spreads as far as it's possible to go. The continuing boorishness and ignorance of the organisers - and the clear lack of any sign of genuine regret - will make people more determined to ensure that any future NGG at this site will be a washout.

Jewish Hippy

...

26.08.2006 23:04

I very much doubt that the NGG will have the audacity to use the same site next year - should that happen, I'd personally be up for treating them in the way that we treat the fascists.

Militant antifascist

Sad

28.08.2006 13:25

Are we supposed to be sacred of you ‘Militant Antifascist’?
'The way we treat the fascists'
Which is what exactly? A few placards and skinny students? Ha ha ha, please!.....lol

Read Anne’s post my friend.

Michael

Statement from the organisers of Northern Green Gathering

29.08.2006 09:38

Statement from the organisers of Northern Green Gathering regarding comments made on Indymedia

Introduction

Now that we have finished the busy process of organising the event we are happy to respond to the points raised on Indymedia. We are happy to be held accountable to people within the wider movement as well as members and those who attend our event but need to make it clear that we have our own aims and objectives and boundaries which others might not agree with.

We have never intended to hide anything concerning the event, and our meetings have been open to any interested parties, we have simply not been able to commit the time to producing a collectively agreed statement (which is important to us as an organisation) whilst the event has been in preparation and in the immediate period following the event.

Choice of Venue

We acknowledge that we failed to adequately research the history of the site and the landowner's connections with the BNP. We accept that failing to realise the level of feeling surrounding the issue was naive and underestimated the level of upset that this would cause . We believed that the continuation of the event when finding a site was difficult was of importance. We apologise to anyone this has caused distress to.

This matter was discussed in our meetings and an agreement was made to continue. We discussed that the site would not be re-used if the landowner seemed in any way sympathetic with the BNP or any other organisation not in line with the objectives of NGG.

We will not be using the site for a further event.

Presence of the BNP during the event

The landowner was informed on by two organisers on the Monday we arrived on site that we were very unhappy about of the continued presence of the BNP particularly in light of our differing values. He was requested to move the BNP off the site immediately. He chose not to do this.

We made it clear to the landowner that we are extremely unhappy that the BNP were still present on the site during our set up period. We had been assured in advance by the landowner that the previous event would be finished and all BNP would have left by the time our crew arrived on Monday to set up. We would not have entered into any agreement where we knowingly put our crew or members of the public in contact with BNP members.

Our security assessed the situation and all members of the BNP's party remaining on site were accounted for and all who were present had left the site the day before the public were admitted. If as has been suggested, any members of the BNP (“senior” or otherwise) were present during the event they would have gained entry by their own means or bought tickets, obviously we are not aware of the identity of all BNP members so could not prevent them from coming on site if they chose. No fascist literature was reported to the organisers or discovered by security to have been distributed on site.

We are aware of interaction between individual members of our site crew and BNP members still on site. NGG as an organisation chooses not to engage in debate with fascists but we stand behind personal choice of people volunteering for us if they wish to debate their contrasting views.

We are aware that members of the BNP visited event amenities such as the cafes or sauna during the time when these amenities were providing for the set up crew. All service providers were informed of the continued presence of the BNP when they arrived and offered the full support of NGG crew and security. Again, if individual service providers choose to interact with BNP members that is a personal decision and we stand by their right to make those decisions and deal with other people in a way that they see fit.

NGG budgets, including cost of land and hired security

NGG is, has always been, and will remain a “not for profit” organisation. Every main event we do is budgeted at a deficit with the required reserves sourced from previous events that have performed beyond financial expectations or from benefit gigs.

This event was no different and ran to deficit.

The amount budgeted for land rental was £2500, which we feel it was in line with what could be considered a reasonable fee for renting a piece of land of this size. The amount which NGG will be paying remains under discussion.

The amount paid to security was that which was required to provide the security presence recommended by health and safety literature and in keeping with previous event budgets. Security was hired from a “not for profit” collective. From experience of running previous events we are happy with the amount paid and the service received. The security budget was consistent with that paid at previous gatherings.

Our company accounts can be acquired from Companies House and will be presented at our AGM (date to be confirmed). Budgets have always been freely available to anyone attending our open meetings.

Clash of dates with the EarthFirst! summer gathering and NGG ethical policies.

When running events it is often inevitable that dates clash to the potential detriment of both parties. We did regret this clash, but for us to find a site and suitable date felt that this was unavoidable. We intended no malice towards EarthFirst! In our choice of dates. This is the first time that the events have clashed and the alternative offered would have clashed with Climate Camp to whom we have lent equipment and for whom we hope both NGG and EarthFirst! were feeder events. We believe that, as is stated by EarthFirst! themselves, the two events differ: NGG is an educational and fun event focussing on sustainable living in the 21st century, rather than a working event. For many attendees this is their first experience of how sustainable living may be achieved and we hope that it will lead many to become more involved with this aim.

Our ethical guidelines are adhered to insofar as we are legally allowed, for example the use of composting toilets and a ban on generators on site. We have put much time and effort into accommodating the requirements of our licence whilst adhering to these guidelines, for example in areas such as toilet facilities and power provision for emergency lighting.

Membership

The membership side of NGG was an issue that we felt fitted in with our ethos of collective responsibility. We have always in the past offered tickets on the gate and encouraged those buying them to become members. The reason that NGG 2006 was initially a members event was due to licensing restrictions that were subsequently changed when we were instructed to apply for a licence by Ribble Valley Council. This then enabled us to sell tickets at the gate. The original restrictions were as troublesome for us as they were to traders in terms of numbers attending, though we feel this was also due to the weather and due to peoples’ personal (and accepted by us) decisions not to attend the event.

Indymedia

The organisers of NGG feel saddened themselves that we have been subjected to abuse, threats and unsubstantiated allegations on Indymedia, whether this be by individuals, organisations, or members of organisations (whether acting in a personal capacity or not).

We would re-iterate that we have not intended to deceive anyone.

We hope that this can be accepted as a written apology, as we are very sorry for the offence and distress that has (rightly) been caused by our decision to continue to hold the event on the site.

Any further views stated by individual organisers on their own reasons for their continued involvement are personal and varied. We believe that NGG organisers posting on forums such as Indymedia have identified themselves as such. We are aware that inappropriate comments have been posted that have been taken to be from organisers when this is not the case.

We hope that this statement answers points which have been raised on Indymedia and elsewhere.

Northern Green Gathering
Homepage: http://www.nggonline.org.uk

Troll?

29.08.2006 09:45

I abhor the BNP's politics, and I would NEVER associate myself with any part of it, but it seems on this forum that if anyone dares to speak out against anything an 'anti-fash' says, regardless to what it is, you are automatically branded a 'Fascist troll'? What ever happened to discussion?
This simply unfair. You are not the law! I am entitled to speak.

Call me what you will, but I will never again bother with this forum, I've read better input and balanced argument from most of the kids I teach, and I'm talking about primary. I am bitterly disappointed.

Anne

"Never Again"

29.08.2006 12:50

"Call me what you will, but I will never again bother with this forum, I've read better input and balanced argument from most of the kids I teach, and I'm talking about primary. I am bitterly disappointed. "

Good riddance. Piss off you patronising cow. Most kids could put together something more coherent than the drivel you posted above.

Red N Black

fao " anne"

29.08.2006 13:23

hi anne[ if your still reading indymediaand not escorting small children to the toilet]...god forbid the education of the nations kids if you think your scurrilous post was an attempt at Discussion, calling people SCUM does not in my book come anywhere near an attempt at dialogue... as you say some of the posts have been insulting,some abusive and some pretty childish...yours came under the all 3 to be fair, so what did you expect in return.... if a little bit of banter on indymedia is enough to see you off I'm quite glad you've never stood next to me on an anti fascist action...regards CoG

Concerned Of gipton

Anne

29.08.2006 18:02

Thank fuck we're not going to be treated to any more 'pearls of wisdom' from this moron. I feel sorry for the kids she teaches.

Charlie B

FAO Anne

29.08.2006 21:16

I bet you're still reading this site really! So you think it's all unfair do you? - how terrible for you. Well maybe you should give some consideration to the how unfair (just a slight understatement there) the BNP's 'policies' and 'politics' are, perhaps if you were to think about who the real scum are in this debate your mind might be focused enough to stop criticising anti fascists and stop writing a load of hysterical rubbish.

If you can't manage any clarity of thought I suggest you go and scream and scream until you make yourself sick at the injustice of it all.

Angry of Otley.

angry of otley

Re: NGG response

29.08.2006 21:29

I'm glad that you have finally bothered to respond in some way to the situation that you've caused.

But what a load of liberal rubbish - you have not in anyway taken responsibility for the damage you've caused or added anything constructive to overcoming the rascists and fascists who exist in our communities as this 'debate' goes on.

What a shame that you all feel saddened by this, would you have felt just as saddened if your actions had not been publicised so widely? In, future if you don't want to feel like this then I suggest the following easy to follow steps:

1. Don't associate with people who in any way support the BNP and others like them.
2. Show some support to those who work long and hard to stop rascism and fascism (do you think the BNP give a shit about you?)
3. Take responsibility for your actions.
4. Oh there is no 4 cos that's it! - simple really!

Angry of Otley.

angry of otley

You had to go and spoil it

29.08.2006 22:37

"The organisers of NGG feel saddened themselves that we have been subjected to abuse, threats and unsubstantiated allegations on Indymedia, whether this be by individuals, organisations, or members of organisations (whether acting in a personal capacity or not)."

A shame that you had to spoil a reasonable (IMO) if belated response by this. In view of the situation, and the appalling previous responses by members of your collective you got off very lightly on here NGG, a shame some of you have to continue lying.

Green hippy

fair point

29.08.2006 22:49

"What a shame that you all feel saddened by this, would you have felt just as saddened if your actions had not been publicised so widely?"

A fair point

James

Website

29.08.2006 22:51

That statement still isn't up on your website ngg

James

Threats?

29.08.2006 23:09

Where are these so-called threats NGG. I've just read through the whole of this thread and I can't see them.

S.N.

And another thing......

29.08.2006 23:12

There seems to be an assumption by either NGG organisers or those that say they support them that anti-fascists are some kind of group that stand totally alone. Environmental activism (not the liberal shite kind) and anti-racist/fascist activism is not mutually exclusive.

Single issue politics - pah!

angry of otley

A response to the statement of the NGG organisers

30.08.2006 09:20

While I personally welcome the statement from the NGG organisers, late though it is, there are still some things I feel need to be said.

It is hard to believe that, while knowing about the BNP's presence in advance of the NGG, and while discussing the growing controversy at length at meetings, the NGG organisers were not able, or willing, to issue at least a brief statement prior to now. Certainly, some of the individual members of the NGG collective have found time to write the most preposterous rubbish on here prior to the issue of this statement. Perhaps more importantly though, not only did the NGG choose to share the BNP's site, but they appear to have made a conscious decision to attempt to withhold that fact from their membership and from environmentalists considering attending the NGG. Even now, there is no mention whatsoever of this matter on the NGG website. In view of this, it is hard not to be at least sceptical about the belated contrition of the NGG organisers, coming as it does, well after the harm has already been done.

The collective say that they "never intended to hide anything", but it is hard to reconcile that with the facts. Considering that they were initially warned by the farmer that there might be conflict with the BNP during the set-up stage of the NGG, one might think that they had a responsibility to warn visitors of potential conflict (and indeed not to have used the site.) Their own website would have been the appropriate place for this.

While acknowledging the apparent regret of the NGG organisers over the choice of site, it is a shame that this has been generated by the strong feelings of OTHERS on this issue, and not apparently by any strong feelings or upset on the part of the NGG organisers themselves towards the BNP. At issue, is not just that what the NGG have done has caused upset, but that it has assisted the BNP and set back the struggle against them. The NGG organiser's "lack of research" did not prevent some of their number apologising for the farmer on an earlier thread, prevaricating outrageosly about the matter, and worse of all attacking anti-fascists simply for taking the BNP more seriously than themselves.

The NGG organisers say they stand behind "individual service providers" who chose to interact with BNP members. The point is that if reports are to be believed some of these "service providers" (more generally known as "capitalists") seemed to quite enjoy "interacting" with the BNP, providing them with "services" and getting on well with them. It might be argued that the NGG's decision to "stand behind" these people is just another expression of opportunism, and rather gives the lie to the very belated anti-BNP stance of the NGG organisers.

In terms of paying this BNP supporting farmer, if he really did breach a verbal contract to have the BNP off site before the arrival of the NGG, then the organisers might choose (again very belatedly) to make a stand and refuse to pay him. Though, since they were informed well in advance of the BNP's presence and warned of potential conflict if they chose to set up early, they might be on shakey ground legally. However, bearing in mind their monumental failings in terms of the BNP, a decision not to pay the farmer, would certainly do a lot to restore some of the credibility of the NGG, and they would be risking a lot less than many anti-fascists risk routinely. They might well consider donating the money to Antifa instead.

It is a shame that that the NGG organisers chose to mar what might otherwise be regarded as a largely contritious statement by choosing to misrepresent the debate on this very sordid affair. The NGG organisers created the problem, they chose to keep quiet about it, and when it was made public by others they reacted badly and simply dug themselves into a deeper hole. Bearing in mind, their behaviour, and their reaction to criticism, it is disingenuous of them to be talking about "abuse", they got off lightly, and it is entirely disingenuous to be talking about "threats", again they appear to have got off lightly. As for "unsubstantiated allegations" Indymedia readers and potential NGG goers might think they have learned more from those opposed to the BNP on this thread than they ever would, or would have, from the NGG organisers. It is time to stop playing the violin for yourselves NGG organisers, you have made the jobs of those genuinely committed to opposing the BNP harder, you have given the BNP a victory, you have caused much distress to your own members, and you are set to put more money into the pockets of this BNP supporting farmer; so hang your heads in shame if your arrogance always you, and can the rest of it please. And perhaps, as individuals, you ought to stay off Indymedia for a while.

As for the NGG, it is hard not to draw the conclusion that the current organisers have not caused it a great deal of harm.

Anarchist antifascist

Sorry?

30.08.2006 09:27

Do people think the Northern Green organizers are genuinely sorry, or are they just worried about losing money next year?

Bramley Red

Threats etc..?

30.08.2006 10:04

On the subject of threats:

personally I would regard
- "I'd personally be up for treating them in the way that we treat the fascists." as a threat.
- There were blatant threats (on the previous thread) to come and create a disturbace during the event.
- "I'm really hoping that our paths meet at some point as I resent being called scum by anyone" is pretty threatening.
- "YOU FASCIST APPEASING SCUM MIGHT THINK THIS IS JUST GOING TO GO AWAY, AND THAT YOU'VE GOT AWAY WITH IT - YOU'RE WRONG!" sounds fairly threatening to me.

And the sniping little insults just don't really do much either.

By all means explain (strongly if you wish) why you are upset and what problems you think have been caused. But just coming out with things like "hippy scum" and "northern greed" and insinuating that NGG are fascist sympathisers just alienates people. And whatever your personal views on "hippes", certainly the latter two of those 3 comments I've flagged up are simply not true.

Yes plenty of fair points have also been made but plenty of them could have been made with less abject spite.

The people involved in NGG come from a wide range of backgrounds, experiences and levels of awareness. Some of us definately fucked up and didn't think. That's a fair point which we are trying to address. Some of us were probably just naive and didn't realise the implications. That is also something that we are trying to address.

Whether the comments made here are threats some people have taken then to be so. There is place for education. Putting the boot in and making people into pariahs comes in later, when education fails (if that is what you beleive - I am not getting into the moral philosophy of the use or non-use of violence here).

I was speaking to someone this week, not a core organiser, but involved with one of the areas of the event, who was worrying about going to climate camp as they were scared of what people would do to them. That hardly helps anyone does it?

Yes, we have made a mistake. Yes, we should probably have known better. But we are people who, so far as I can see, are really guilty only of failing to consider the wider implications of doing what they thought was right.

NGG Stewards

"NGG Stewards"

30.08.2006 11:29

"NGG Stewards" (what a quick collective statement, if that is what it is, which I doubt), you really don't have the good sense to know when to shut up do you. In fact, judging by your actions, and the NGG's response to the situation YOU created, I don't think you have much sense at all.

Among other things, DISHONESTY has characterised the NGG's behaviour, and this is no exception. So let's have the whole of those quotations eh, and if people want to see the context, and read the disgraceful responses of NGG organisers they can read back throuugh the thread themselves? So here's the first of your quotes in full:

"I very much doubt that the NGG will have the audacity to use the same site next year - should that happen, I'd personally be up for treating them in the way that we treat the fascists."

You then claim, "There were blatant threats (on the previous thread) to come and create a disturbace during the event. " That is untrue. There were no threats to cause a disturbance, but one suggestion (amid a huge thread) that people use ecconomic sabotage against the farmer.

Let's look at your next quote: ""I'm really hoping that our paths meet at some point as I resent being called scum by anyone" is pretty threatening." That was a response to this gem from an NGG supporter: "You sad self-abusing little nothings, you talk about ‘bashing’ & ‘smashing’ with your ‘anti’ this and ‘anti’ that. Well here's a well overdue reality check for you. YOU are the fascists YOU are the scum." Nice eh?

And your final quote was a response to this: " Grow up... and get a life. This is all so boring. Bored now... "

I will not bother to trawl through this thread and repost the blatant drivel of the NGG organisers, which doesn't need to be taken out of context.

As for "sniping little insults", in trying to cover-up your disgraceful behaviour you chose to lie, and to belittle and denigrate anti-racism. That you have the arrogance, after all you've done, to keep on whining like spoiled little children speaks volumes.

"Yes plenty of fair points have also been made but plenty of them could have been made with less abject spite." The point is that you idiots shouldn't need other people to tell you not to share a site with the BNP at all. Your behaviour has been nothing short of disgraceful, and bearing in mind the shock and surprise caused by your behaviour, the hurt caused to your own supporters, the victory you've given the BNP, and the pitiful response of the NGG including the denigration of antifascists , I think you have been treated far more fairly than you perhaps deserve.

I don't think anyone has alleged that the NGG are fascist sympathisers. That is just yet another lie.

"Some of us definately fucked up and didn't think."
And you "didn't think" for several weeks did you. And you refused to listen to others, preferring to snipe at them, as you continue to do.

"That's a fair point which we are trying to address."
Bit late in the day though isn't it now? And what are you doing? People only have to read the arrogance of your post to see the NGG's real attitude to this, what self-pitying little nothings you are.

"Some of us were probably just naive and didn't realise the implications."
When they were repeatedly pointed out to you? And people only have to look at this and the other thread to see the response of the NGG know-it-alls.

"That is also something that we are trying to address."
Again, in what way? What are you doing? Writing crap like this on Indymedia, hitting out at those less "naive" then yourselves?

"Whether the comments made here are threats some people have taken then to be so." But then some of you took the BNP as suitable people to share a site with, some of you took this farmer to be a reasonable bloke running a farm suitable for a Green event, some of you are clearly stupid. You cannot present delusions as reality. Leeds is a small place, most of you are known, have you been threatened, has anyone had a go at you physically? No. Nobody on either of these threads has even suggested using violence against the NGG, so to bring it up is, once again, extremely dishonest.

"I was speaking to someone this week, not a core organiser, but involved with one of the areas of the event, who was worrying about going to climate camp as they were scared of what people would do to them. That hardly helps anyone does it? "
And again, you continue with the dishonesty. The fact that some idiot with a guilty conscience worries about going to the Climate Camp is no more indicative of the likelihood of them being physically attacked than the fears of an aracnaphobe mean they are going to be eaten by spiders. More likely they simply thought that people would not think highly of them, quite rightly in my opinion. Since there were people from the CC at the NGG you know full well that nobody there is going to attack you, so stop denigrating (by implication) the Climate Camp in the way you have done anti-fascists.

"Yes, we have made a mistake. Yes, we should probably have known better."
SHOULD??!!! Surely, that is beyond dispute. You went your own selfish way, and now it has blown up in your faces.

" But we are people who, so far as I can see, are really guilty only of failing to consider the wider implications of doing what they thought was right."
I can really only think of one thing to say to this, and please take it as an insult: "You sanctimonious, self-righteous, pathetic, morally gutless WANKERS. Why don't you all just shut up because I think people are sick of hearing your whining self-justification, and it really isn't doing you any good.

Red N Black

FAO Bramley Red

30.08.2006 11:33

To answer your question, it doesn't sound like they are genuinely sorry to me, just sorry that they've been left looking like idiots and sorry that whenever the NGG is mentioned again people will remember that they sold out the wider movement.

Anon

Which side are you on

30.08.2006 11:46

It says a lot that an ngg organiser was scared about going to the climate camp but apparently happy enough to encounter the bnp

...

one last post

30.08.2006 12:16

sorry to keep harping on readers but rumour has it that Mr farmer palmer not just content with renting his land to the Ngg and the bnp also runs an illeagal Halal slaughterhouse on the site, another little tidbit is that he sprayed some of the ngg goers with Slurry/shit as they were leaving the site ...Nice bloke

Concerned Of Gipton

Unbelievable!

30.08.2006 14:25

FUCK the NGG! Who do they think they are?
I've been reading their shite throughout this thread and I can no longer remain silent. They are nothing more than NAZI sympathisers. I wonder while the NGG and BNP were all getting along so well on their cozy little site, did they listen to some nice NAZI-skin/hate music and throw in a few salutes? Maybe exchanged a few leaflets?

I can't bring myself to classify the NGG in any other way from now on other than tiny minded fascists themselves.

Kes

Apology

30.08.2006 14:41

You really seem to be doing a great jon in terms of placating people NGG - about as good a job as you did finding a site. Now say it "with feeling" and without using a supposed apology as an opportunity to keep on sniping.

C.O.

Scared?

30.08.2006 14:51

The northern green organiser who felt scared about going to the climate camp may not have had a real reason to feel frightened, but personally Im glad they did. Perhaps now they understand just a little of how some of us feel when we see the B.N.P. coming down our streets giving out leaflets or demonstrating in the streets. Some of, had we gone to the northern green wouldn't have got on quite so well with the B.n.P. for the simple reason that we're not white.

anon

Farmer

30.08.2006 15:11

"he sprayed some of the ngg goers with Slurry/shit as they were leaving the site ...Nice bloke "

It is obvious wear this bastards sympathies lie, and it should have been obvious to the ngg. As for the claim that he runs an illegal halal slaughterhouse, this is an industrial farm and he is clearly no friend to animals, that too should have been obvious. I wonder what his BNP chums think to his halal operation.

Misty

green nazis

30.08.2006 15:17

It aint the first timne Nazis have tried to get their foot in the door of the green movement by any means - a shame the ngg organisers left the door wide open for them.

Historian

Humble pie not on the ngg menu

30.08.2006 15:35

I just read the other thread. No, I couldn't see any threats either, other than quite legitimate threats to boycott the NGG in future. Here's a couple of gems from the organizers:

"You could equally say that the Green-friendly farmer is pocketing money from the BNP. Personally, we believe the landowner has sympathies only with his bank account, and is guilty of just not caring what goes on on his land. We hope that we can educate him while we are there."
(Gael)

"I have spoken to said farmer about the range of events he holds on the land. Apart from the BNP gathering, the rest of the events are fluffy hippy gatherings and sound system parties. He really doesn't have any ties to any of them, he cares as little about NGG as he does about the bnp."
(Stu)

So do you still think the farmer is "Green-friendly" Gael? Surely just not caring what goes on on his land means that he isn't. And how did your attempts to "educate" him go, I think we deserve to be told.

And Stu, do you really think the farmer cares as little for the NGG as he does for the BNP?

What a pair of clowns.

Trick Cyclist

Ahem

30.08.2006 16:50

"The people involved in NGG come from a wide range of backgrounds"

Yeah, I'll bet!!! LOL!!!!

Lord Snooty

Cheeky fuckers

30.08.2006 16:55

"Yes plenty of fair points have also been made but plenty of them could have been made with less abject spite. "

A shame they had to be made at all. Isnt that the real point.

Unbelievable

Another comment

31.08.2006 07:50

There are a great many people talking about this than have posted about it on Indymedia. Judging from the things I've heard people saying I think if the NGG is organised next year they ought to look at a smaller venue - like maybe a phone box. A lot of people really are very angry about this.

Observer

NGG organisers I wouldnt worry about their daft threats

07.09.2006 18:01

I am sorry to see people afraid to go places due to threats from different political parties, who reckon they have something in common. Trust me on this one, the people who make all the threats on here are not worth a toss.

They are all talk, they know it and so do i. Dont lose a seconds sleep over threats from these losers and regardless of your views, behave in the correct way and you will be accepted in which ever political event you wish to engage in.

Come to the RWB next year and i will buy you a pint and have an adult chat - something these drips on here are unable to do.

Nick Cass

fash comment alert (above)

08.09.2006 11:30

the comment above is either a fascist or someone trolling, trying to slur the NGG indirectly (& so should be deleted, according to IMC guidelines).

The people slurring the NGG directly - some at the beginning certainly were full of hatred and the things as an antifascist I am fighting against. There were direct threats (whether well founded or not). And some of you seem so angry that you don't read the posts properly, hence seeing Anne as an organiser, etc etc. I do however believe in physical confrontation of fash/no platform, before you get started. Sounds like one of the principles of the NGG is collective action, or consensus decision-making, hence no statement earlier, on top of their busyness, so however serious, don't bash 'em for that. Some of you take their official statement seriously, others don't give 'em that credit; both bend the words to suit their pre-existing opinions. Having said all that, I'm in no way appeasing their decision - was wrong to use the same land, directly in contradiction to green aims, not taking seriousness of green fascism into account, etc etc.

green antifa