M&S Picket: Oppose Zionist/Police Aggression

You really need to be more explicit with claims of "unfair". Not being there to see the actual situation on the ground I don't know what you might mean by things like.....
".......and set up stalls in illegal areas- all tactics which are shown a blind eye by the police...."

Illegal for THEM? After all, you have chosen to picket under conditions where the counter pickets who are for M&S have might advantages. For example, you would be limited to use of public areas where ANYBODY would be allowed to set up a stall but they might be able to set theirs up both in such "public" areas and ALSO in "private" areas where M&S gets to say who is or is not allowed to "stall" -- and that would not be "illegal" if M&S did not object to THEIR presence there.

Is that the sort of thing about which you are complaining? Because if it is, you are being more than a little silly. You have chosen to picket under condiitons where the counter pickets (if considered "friendly") by your target WILL have those advantages. Your target is not a neutral party with regard to you and the counter pickets.

I'm not sure why you are making the point about a pro-M&S counter-demo having advantages. I've seen you saying the same on other indymedia pages before. You don't seem to be just giving info, but giving it or arguing for a reason - what is it?

Hello Racists

Lets rename you the People's Front For the Liberation of Jew Hatred (I would call you the Popular Front if you ever managed to get more than twenty five on your picket).

I know that you claim there is a difference but why then do you never picket China Town in response to the occupation of Tibet where over 1 million have died or Chechnya or Kashmir or Sudan or numerous other places where hundreds of thousands have died - why just against the Jewish State where two thousand three hundred have died in this Intifada - mostly terrorists, but very unfortunately also some innocent civilians.

As a Jew I am tought to respect life and it grieves me when any innocents are killed.

Yet over 1000 Israelis have also died, most of whom were civilians; old men, wome, children and the true innocence - babies (including two I knew). Do you have enough respect for their lost lives to feel grief for them. I doubt it - to you a Jewish life should only be accepted if it has no strength and can only be pitied.

I have attended counter demos against you. You refer to us as Likud Members - we are not - only one of our number is. Most of us believe in a two state solution - we simply want the bombing to stop too.
When Egypt and Jordan wanted peace, Israel made peace - if Arafat really wanted peace - we would make peace and live as two states. The settlers would be removed and a Palestinian State would be assured. But Arafat does not want peace.

It is right that Israel should not be immune from critisism, but you must understand that as long as you continue to disproportionately attack the Jewish State, and continually fail to demonstrate against countries with awful human rights records - you show yourselves as the vicious and vile racists that you are.

Should, on the other hand, you wish to mount a joint vigil for freedom to the Kurds, The Tutsi, Tibet, Chechnya and for the Sudanese Muslims, we would be pleased to join you in doing this.

Oh - but that will mean that you cannot have a go at the Jewish State.

So - before you tear down my e mail with the usual crap - answer why you have singled put Israel?

... a mind well and truely made up:

"It is right that Israel should not be immune from critisism, but you must understand that as long as you continue to disproportionately attack the Jewish State, and continually fail to demonstrate against countries with awful human rights records - you show yourselves as the vicious and vile racists that you are."

It's that word "disproportionately", that is revelling.

Just exactly how does one assign such proportionality?

And then, the notion that, because being to busy in 'attacking' the 'jewish' state, there is a failure to address other issues ... well where is the evidence for that?

We all have one or two issues that we choose to persue a little bit more than others, but this is wrong? Yet again that old zionist trick of pointing somewhere over the horizon and yelling .. 'look, they're worse than us, we've only killed a few. Go and shout at them, solve that problem first and THEN, maybe ...'

Moral relativism is no solution to anything. It is an ex-post-facto excuse for the "vicious and vile racists" that run the satillite state of us taxpayers called israel.

We ARE pointing the finger at the wannabe 'jewish only' state and saying .. NO!

We ARE also pointing the finger at any other patriachal god/man/economic tool of oppression.

No gods, no masters.

To Jewish and Proud

How can you call Israel a Jewish state, when it was CREATED under ZIONIST beliefs???? Israel is NOT a Jewish state! Israel is a ZIONIST state! This is, like i'd before, Israel was created under Zionist beliefs, NOT Jewish.

To quote a rabbi that i have talked to online "Rabbi E: it is currently a zionist state with many many jews living there" www.askmoses.com

If you want a copy of the transcript then add a reply with your email, and will send it to you!

The only way the Israel could be a Jewish state is if it was given to the Jewish People when the Messiah returns. You should know this!

Also Zionism was OFFICALLY declared a form of Racial Discrimination and Racism by the UN on 10th November 1975! If you don't believe me go to:-  http://www.cinu.org.mx/biblioteca/documentos/palestina/ares3379.htm

Happy to demonstrate against oppression of the Kurdish people in the Middle East with you any day. Just as long as you don't mind the long history of collaboration between Turkey and Israel as part of maintaining that oppression getting a mention.

There are anumber of people on the picket who have protested on Tibet, including outdise the Chinese Embassy in Manchester. Many also support the struggles in Chechnya, Kashmir, Ireland, the Balkans, Latin America, etc. I and others were involved in the campaign to Free Nelson Mandela and end Apartheid in South Africa. I also marched with the Kurds during the demos during the 1991 Gulf War. I actually carried a banner linking the struggle for Kurdistan with the struggle for Palestine. Which of these demonstration were you on Jewish and Proud? I am nor nor do I know anyone else on the Picket, who is obsessed by Jews - anymore than anti-Apartheid hated white people or Irish solidarity hated Protestants.

I find the charge of Jew hating particularly offensive. My own family were 19th century Jewish refugees who fled to this country. I also campaigned against the anti-semitism of the fascists. I was there outside the Jewish cemetery in North Manchester when the graves were attacked, broken and vandalised. Where were you Jewish and Proud? Or is it just anti-Zionism you find racist? I have worked with the Manchester Jewish Museum and been involved with preserving a number of Jewish archives. Recently I have been visiting some of the Jewish museums and synagogues of Eastern Europe which are slowly reviving after the horrors of the Nazi holocaust. Manchester has many supporters of Palestine who are Jewish and I have worked alongside them for many years.

The first attack on our picket was organised by a member of Likud. Those that carried it out were ex-Israeli Defence Force soldiers. Several of your friends on the wore Batar stickers (an organisation that has a long fascist history). The original leaflet for the 1st counter demonstration did call from us to be undemocratically and forcably hounded "off the streets of Manchester" and an overtly anti-semitic attack on Jewish supporters of our protest as "traitors" and self-hating Jews. You all target Jewish supporters threatening them, making vile anti-semitic remarks and call the "Judas", "Lord Haw Haw" and "traitor". A local Rabbi had his car burnt out and wife threated because of opposition to these racist Zionists. So it is not a matter of being Jewish and proud but only Zionist and proud.

"There are anumber of people on the picket who have protested on Tibet, including outdise the Chinese Embassy in Manchester”

The question was why don’t you picket Chinatown.

“I and others were involved in the campaign to Free Nelson Mandela and end Apartheid in South Africa. I also marched with the Kurds during the demos during the 1991 Gulf War. I actually carried a banner linking the struggle for Kurdistan with the struggle for Palestine”

What a righteous man you are. Give yourself a pat on the back. What has Kurdistan got to do with Palestine?

“My own family were 19th century Jewish refugees who fled to this country”

Hmm. Could you be a little less glib? I’ll bet “my own family” means your sister-in-law’s great-grandfather.

“I have worked with the Manchester Jewish Museum and been involved with preserving a number of Jewish archives. Recently I have been visiting some of the Jewish museums and synagogues of Eastern Europe which are slowly reviving after the horrors of the Nazi holocaust. Manchester has many supporters of Palestine who are Jewish and I have worked alongside them for many years”

So what?????

John,

The first counter demo was organised by people who want a two state solution, none of us are Likud members.

You want one state. What would happen to the five million jews there I wonder? presumably you would require them to return to Poland, Hungary etc, or just get pushed in the sea.

If you really wanted peace then I am sure that we could all get together and sign a petition for a two state solution, but you want destruction of the Jewish homeland and we will not stand for that. as that would mean that the Jewish people are again dispersed and dependant on the mercy of others, the history of this shows that mercy is often not shown.
The fact that you want this is demonstrative of the fact that you are a vicious anti-semite who spreads lies and poison.

You are an apologist of terrorism and it is people like you who, by your support for the murder of innocents, cause it to continue.

May the grief of all those who have lost children, partners, freinds and relatives be the mark of Cain on your head and on the heads of all like you.

On a more important note, in the event that a Jewish cemetary is attacked again, then stay away! We do not want the memory of our relatives, whose desecrated graves to be further desecrated by your presence.

You hold a totally polarised view about Israel committing abhorent acts? Is Israels human rights record really that bad? Because China, Nigeria, Angola, all those you mention are quite good at being appalling means Israel's alright to do what it wants is it? Oh good, problem solved. Perhaps their was a biassed reason for suggesting Israel committed atrocious acts. But he's not wrong.

Of course a two state solution is the way forward and screw everyone who doesn't believe it.. or perhaps both sides could show the doubters evidence that it can work. You say that cowardice is failing to stand up for what you believe in? So you believe in not listening to anything other than what you want to hear and are proud of an Israeli state that likes to, how shall i put it? Kick the fuck out of weak people. And no, just because i think your side act like tits does not mean i condone suicide bombers at all. It is heartbreaking to see people do that to each other. But why don't you ponder for a moment, that if you back someone into a corner they don't curl up and die, they lash out and fight with nothing to lose. Wouldn't you? Are you committed to a resolution or a victory? If its a resolution, try listening to someone for once.

No i never made the debating team because my school didn't have one and i had better things to do than worry about where the next addition to my CV was coming from. Yes i know you were joking. So am I.

Henry
XXXXXXXX