Tibetan "protestors" removed from trafalger square

riku | 17.08.2008 17:48 | Repression | Social Struggles | London

police being twats

On Saturday after the main authorised tibet protest march, two protestors stopped to watch the olympics, they happened to be carrying two tibet flags but werent protesting. After a couple of minutes the heritage wardens (the people who supervise the square) asked them to leave, and then proceeded to get the police involved when they said they werent protesting and wouldnt leave....

anyway...5 policeman eventually came down and asked them to leave and threatened to use force...stating that they were enforcing local by-laws (which do exist)....

the irony was that they really werent protesting....yet because the police turned up and treated it as such, thats what it became....!

yah! another ridiculous example of police activity in london....

riku

Additions

Ironies

18.08.2008 20:48

thanks for putting this up Riku.To clarify a little.when we first entered the square there were 7 of us but five left after the intervention of a couple of Heritage wardens,some lurking security and a community police officer,which left two of us.After singing a line from the current Madonna single "if its against the law arrest me" (at which the Heritage Warden looked horrified ,possibly at my sentiment but more probably at my vocal chords) & a bit of relatively friendly chat with the community police officer i said i intended to stay watching the olympics until 3.00pm.After the 5 police arrived it appeared that they were 4 to 1 in our favour,but had to act on the Heritage Warden's say so.They asked to see the bye law and then showed it to us where it said under Trafalgar Square bye Laws 2002 section 5 part 10 that noone should "take part in a display".we disputed that we were doing any such thing . as i pointed out to the police inspector "what about every design on a T-shirt and the bloke who i saw passing by with an England flag over his shoulder".As far as we were concerned we were just watching the Olympics with our Tibetan flags.After more conflab the police told us they would have to remove us by force.There was no suggestion of arrest so i continued to assume we were not doing anything illegal.however as it was now 5 to 3.00pm the police decided to just wait for our time to leave.i didn't feel that overall the police wanted to be there.
After discussion between the two of us we felt that we were the victims of political discrimination by the GLA.This bye law ,if it means anything,(& such a catch all phrase as "display" hardly suggests it does)is clearly only implemented when it suits the GLA reps.
i'd be surprised if they order out people wearing T-Shirts displaying their affections for football teams or coca-cola.So it depends on the bias of the GLA as expressed through its employees.
As a result of this we decided to go to Parliament Square the next day and raise the Tibetan Flag.This we did yesterday & spent nearly two hours waving Tibetan flags opposite the Houses Of Parliament & Big Ben.About 50 people asked to be photographed with us including people from Russia,Pakistan,and Hong Kong....but no interest whatsoever from the police (& SOCPA).We had wondered whether Tiananmen square & Parliamen square were similar (ie that its illegal in both places to raise the Tibetan flag) but thankfully we found that they are not.
The UK Parliament is a very suitable place to raise the Tibetan Flag because

UK invaded Tibet in 1904.This is important because it means that the UK is the only Western nation that knows that Tibet was an independent nation before its occupation by China.The UK therefore has a huge responsibility to Tibet which the UK avoids.

Gordon Brown failed to meet the Dalai Lama at Downing Street in May.(Since 1959 John Major is the only UK Prime Minister to have received the Dalai Lama at Downing Street).So Gordon Brown its way past time to act for Tibet.

~~^^~~simon

simon
mail e-mail: simongouldd@yahoo.co.uk

Comments

Hide the following 11 comments

Yes but

17.08.2008 19:50

You say you weren't protesting but if you're carrying Tibet flags into the square when they are having the olympic event that is a protest really. Anyway, good on you!

Rod

there was a "small" one man and his dog protest..

18.08.2008 00:11

There was a "small" one man and his dog protest during the week and there was no reaction the "heritage wardens" are a bunch of sh*ts really who don't care about the heritage in T square. You go and ask them about a particular person in T Square and they wouldn't be able to give an answer to the question.

They are what leftover from Ken's "goons army" who's sole job to to move the homeless people out of the square, stop you from feeding the bird and act like an general bodies assh*le.

The are the lowest of the low a police force on the cheap.... they are sh*t's scum.

loppy

A hundred thousand need to protest over Tibet!

18.08.2008 10:55

There should have been a massive protest over Tibet while the olympics were shown in Trafalgar Square. A hundred thousand people should have marched in support of us Tibetans and occuppied Trafalgar Square for 24 hours!

Tibetan

@ Rod

18.08.2008 12:00

They were watching the olympics so it being a protest really hinges on wether or not they are of Tibetan descent.

If they are, then they are just two people watching an international sporting event and carrying their national flag.

MonkeyBot 5000

A flag is OK

18.08.2008 15:29

One doesn't need to be from Liverpool to be a supporter of that city's football club and wander around drapped in a flag, so why does one need to be Tibetan to support the Tibetan olympic's team?
As the olympics are the height of xenophic intolerance it is presumably acceptable to have a swastika?

PRoS II

but

18.08.2008 21:28

If your so against the Olympics in China that you go on a demo, why go to T Square and watch it on telly?
Surly you would want to hide your hypocracy behind closed doors?

It happened like this, they were seen to be sitting with thier banners/flags with clear anti china/olympics statments on them, according to the wardens, who have a list of the bylaws that are in force in the square, they asked them to either put away thier stuff or leave and told them why.

They refused to leave so the police were called and asked to assist (there is a whole juristiction problem with land owned by the GLA), a car was dispatched to check things out and 3 other (foot patrol) officers involved in anti pick pocketing/disorder patrols in the area also went just in case the number of persons present was more than the number stated (happens a lot).

Everything sorted out with the protesters leaving after having the fact of the bylaw explained to them, and also having been informed that it they could be removed if they didnt go.

This power is normaly used (and has been) to shift football fans who cause trouble.

not as sexy as the previous comments here but the truth rarely is.

Oh most of the Wardens are none UK nationals who have come here to work from all over the world, They work much longer hours than most and for a fairly average wage,so what have you got against imigrants or "scum" as you put it, or is it that you don't like forigners and black people?

Sorry to be confrontational but I hate bigotry and Those who band the truth to fit agendas.

Harry Purvis

Wha'

18.08.2008 23:36

The point is somewhat missed me thinks. I don't think anyone is against the olympics in China per se but against the Chinese dictatorship in Tibet, Tibet being a sovereign nation. Watching tv in Trafalgar Square or indoors is immaterial.

I must agree that we do live in an hypocracy - government by hypocrites, surely they are damn surly too. Under the bye-laws it would mean the end of New Year in Trafalgar Square as there is a 'display' of celebration. The present hypocracy's sound bites for the main stream media and the implementation of laws are diametrically opposed to each other. The " we live in a democracy where protest is allowed" to using the police to quash any dissent i.e. Tibet, climate, Heathrow, Drax, &c

As for labelling people 'scum' I can not answer for someone else's view. What I can, and will, say is that I had taken the judgement as against the individuals choice of earning a living not as to skin colour, race, religion or any other criteria.

PRoS II
Homepage: http://www.peoplesrepublicofsouthwark.org.uk

I was....

19.08.2008 19:13

Just wanted to come back on that, the flags in THAT days demo showed a stated disaproval and dislike of the olympics and on one a request for all to boycot the viewing, can only go by what I saw nothing else.

The Wardens are generaly really nice people. The job is a tough one but they have a set of rules(bylaws) to uphold with as much discresion as is appropriate in any given situation.
The Bylaws on mant casses contradict the law of the land but are effected for just the areas owned by the GLA.
The laws of this land are hidiously complicated and arcane in places, but they are based on the law of the people (common law), remember your the people, want something changed, get someone to change it, because LAW outranks POLICY.

Harry Purvis

harry's comments

20.08.2008 16:50

i can only speak for myself Harry,but i find it fine for me to watch the Olympics in Trafalgar Square.The Dalai Lama is opposed to boycotting the Olympics & indeed said prayers for their success.Personally i don't have a television as i find it interferes with life so this was my only viewing .(i was lucky to see Maria Mutola in the 800 metres).The Olympics is (nearly was now) a wonderful opportunity to raise the Tibetan issue.

No Harry there was only one placard with us and that was mine.i quickly turned it upside down and held it between my knees with its top on the ground.We all had flags ,5 initially then 7 then 2 (2 people joined & 5 then left).i don't recall people sitting & believe i was standing all the time.

Again Harry whatever the wardens may have told you i asked the community police officer what time it was (i think it was then 2.30pm )and told her i was staying until 3.oopm.Why did i do that ? Because i didn't want to be stuck for hours in Trafalgar square on a point of principle.Now thats a decision you might wish to criticise me for but its the truth of what happened.i think the 5 police arrived about 20 to 3.00pm.They spoke with us a while then retired to look at the bye laws.Then returned to say they would move us by force if we did not go voluntarily but realising that we were going anyway in 5 or 6 minutes they just waited that bit out.Thats true Harry.

Since putting up my previous comment "ironies" i have spoken to Paul Kavanagh of the GLA.
i have assured him that i did not find the Wardens aggressive & i can assure you that none of the comments about them except suggesting political bias were put up by me.i am putting comments in my own name.
i'm just off to another Tibet Demo at the Chinese Embassy so have no time to discuss the political angle of the GLA which i discussed with Paul Kavanagh.i will if i have time later today or tomorrow.
~~~^^^~~~simon

simon
mail e-mail: simongouldd@yahoo.co.uk

Political Discrimination

21.08.2008 15:37

After talking with Paul Kavanagh from the GLA i accept that the motivation of the GLA and its employeees the Heritage Wardens was not consciously political discrimination.Their motivation is to keep control of the square and to keep order.Thus it was what we might do and the question of possible larger numbers joining us that was the GLA concern.This ,after some reflection,seems to me to be anticipatory action,so in fact the Bye laws are being used in place of the Public Order Act which is of course a police power not a warden power.So i still feel discrimated against in that the bye law was not applied to all people in the square who were "taking part in a display" ie other people wandering about with flags or T-Shirts with a message.Of course i understand Paul's point that they are not offering,from a Warden or GLA, a potential problem,but clearly the bye laws should be implemented uniformly not as a substitute for public order legislation. So did we for example present a Breach Of The Peace problem.i would say not since Tibet protestors are not famous in the UK for attacking people.If others might have attacked us then in my opinion it would be they who were Breaching The Peace.But as far as the bye Law itself is concerned i still do not think that what i was doing ,after having been initially spoken to by the Heritage Warden,could be considered to be "taking part in a display",and i doubt that the CPS would have either.

As to the comments on this site,all the other 6 people who were in the square on Saturday were at the Chinese Embassy last night for the two hour Women's Vigil (i didn't do a proper count but a Tibetan organiser says 80).And none of them have put up any comments on this Indymedia article.
Riku who put up the original article was a Tibet sympathiser who was passing through the Square after we had become an item of interest with our large police,security entourage.

There have been a number of protests for Tibet during the Olympics and for those interested my estimates of those attending are

Candle Lit Vigil (Chinese Embassy on the eve of the Games) 250
Opening of the Games (Chinese Embassy) 200
Meditation/Silent Vigil (Chinese Embassy) 40
Cycle Ride for Tibet (Waterloo Bridge -Chinese Embassy) 63
March from Chinese Embassy -Downing Street 147

~~^^~~thanks,simon

simon
mail e-mail: simongouldd@yahoo.co.uk

Thanks

07.09.2008 20:20

Simon
Thanks for clearing this up, If it seemed that I made it a personal attack against you then I appologise, I was being a bit cheeky and was seeing an irony when prehaps there was none.

at the time it seemed funny.

Went to have a chat with the wardens and they back up what you say, as to the 'other displays' don't know about them but I have checked the bylaws and the aim seems to be to unofficial demos off the square, sorry that your day was mared by the event and I hope you will continue to attend the Tibet demos as they are becoming a regular thing.

As for the Police reaction, well that area is controlled from Belgravia Police station and they have to be a bit reactionary due to the locations that they cover, and with the olympics and tibet mix it must have made them worry about the possibility of problems.

was astounded by the rowing victory though

Harry Purvis