Firstly thank you for contacting me. I'm hopping mad about what I've
heard, but I may not have been told the whole story. I can tell you too
the mining community whats left of us feel utterly betrayed by rumours
about you swinging all your efforts to close down what remains of the coal
industry. There are debates about counter-demonstrations etc and press
statements from the power workers and miners. So its vital we do not take
up cudgels over this unless and until and at least that we know where each
other stand. I was a matter of interest with the National General
secretary of the NUM and the Yorkshire Area Leadership last weekend and
they are spitting feathers about the Drax demonstration. The slogans on
the demonstration and the statements made to the press by the protestsrs
demonstrated no concern for the miners, railway workers or power workers.
There was no consultation with us, no debate with us, no seeing what we
wanted or how we see the world or how we can see if there is anything is
common. 'Leave It In The Ground' was the banner which was unfurled at
Drax, 'it' being the coal, and the miners ? where do we leave them ? that
bit wasn't answered. We know where John Major and Maggie Thatcher and
Harold Wilson left us, on the dung heap, and most of us are still there.
'clean coal technology stations'. Yes the technology exists and had done
since the 50s but nobody was interested in applying it. There are at least
two methods, but the latest one is carbon capture, thats not the end of
the story but here isn't the place to elaborate. Enough to say its not a
con, it does produce massive savings in CO2 emissions, plus the bi product
of the Hatfield Main system is hydrogen and energy conservation. Which are
added bonuses on the carbon capture.
Secondly we want to see international ('fair trade' if you like )
standards applied to all imported coal and a level playing field in terms
of health and safety, conditions, hours and union recognition . Countries
with mass slaughter in the collieries should not be allowed to dump coal
here at the expense of workers in their countries and unemployment for
miners here.
65 million Tonnes of coal is burned in Britain each year only about 18
million of it is mined here, despite the fact that British coal is the
cheapest deep mined coal in the world. It is brought here in part because
rather than fit wipers and efficient filters to all power stations, they
import coal which produces less sulphur and ash and carbon when burned.
Instead they burn the miners at source.
There is about 500 years of coal in Britain, it can provide a breathing
space, to develop renewable sources, certainly solar, yes tidal, though
not destructive wind estates which are laying siege to the bits of free
land and crags and moorland we have left.
The governments main plan is and always been to make Britain Nuclear
dependant. That is why they closed down the mines in the first place.
Climate Camp must be very careful not to cross on the wrong side of the
barricade on this issue. Not to be used to promote Nuclear energy by
making the biggest focus coal .
The spokesperson at Drax this month said there was NO PLACE for coal in
Britain's energy supply ! Thats fairly final. The impact of that
statement, coming as it does with a middle class voice and total
indifference to the situation in the coal communities, is unlikely to
strike any cords this side of the tracks.
I understand you intend to shut down Kingsnorth Power Station in August. I
don't know this station in particular but I was informed this was a
station which was using clean coal technology ? Is that not right ?
whether it is or not we have to ask why coal ?.
Coal is not the biggest producer of CO2 its about the fourth and thats
with unfettered uncontrolled emissions from the third world in particular.
It could be massively reduced by demanding all coal which comes here meets
minimum standards of health and safety and union rights. That the
exporting countries themselves adopt clean coal technologies. Such a
tighter focus would be entirely more credible and principled than simply
saying 'close down all coal power stations, don't build new ones, and
exterminate the last of the miners and their communities'.
I cant say I'm keen on entering the lions den of the Climate Camp as a
former miners leader and life long coal miner. I'm tempted to say I think
we speak differant languages. However I shall pencil this is my calender
and see if I can attend along with any of the NUM leadership in order that
we can put our point view across and hopefully get you to adopt a more
balanced approach to the question of power generation and working class
expectations and demands.
You have my permission to put this letter on the website.
The World For The Workers
David Douglass
NUM
Comments
Hide the following 18 comments
Kingsnorth
11.07.2008 13:03
don't know this station in particular but I was informed this was a
station which was using clean coal technology ? Is that not right ?
whether it is or not we have to ask why coal ?."
Kingsnorth is not using clean coal technology. Government spun that a new power station there would use carbon capture and storage. However, when a government official asked the operators (yes, that really is right, he asked the operators) if the licence should include even just provision for carbon capture the operators said no and the official replied within a few minutes to say that was fine. It shows where the power lies in that relationship, a perfect example of regulatory capture.
There is a place for some forms of clean coal, though only as a stopgap to get us from where we are now to where we need to be in the future. Carbon capture only captures the carbon dioxide. This point is made well in http://ev-eon.com which I suggest you take a look at.
A N Other
500 years of coal
11.07.2008 14:01
In the UK, at the end of the pipeline bringing gas to Europe from Russia, we will be under massive pressure to move away from expensive gas to home produced coal. This would massively increase consumption rates and massively reduce the already over optimistic figure of 500 years worth of coal. Then there is peak oil and the increased demand for coal we can expect post peak. Already China is building dozens of coal to oil gasification plants and many other countries sitting on large coal reserves will no doubt end up doing the same.
If we were to burn all that coal (and I don't doubt that we will), the miners might have jobs but the future will be very very bleak for us all.
at current rates of consumption?
class issues raised
11.07.2008 14:37
As an outsider thinking about getting involved in the climate camp for the first time its important that these issues of class bias are raised, and the allegation that there has been zero discussion between campers and the miners does paint the camp in a rather negative light.
Climate Camp has been admirably open in its challenge to capitalism yet seems to have bypassed a community who have been at the frontline of active resistance to it in Britain for decades.
Have we forgotten?
maggie thatchers afterbirth
dialogue with the NUM
11.07.2008 14:46
I will make sure that the issue is raised at the national gathering in London this weekend. If the NUM would be interested in sending a representative i think that would be great.
I am happy that this dialogue is taking place, although maybe it ought to take a more prominant position within the environmentalist mvoement.
...
More Coal Background
11.07.2008 15:18
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/RenewablesVersusCarbonCapture.php
Have a look there, then sign up to receive their e-mails which cover a wide spectrum.
IIlyan
Speaking to....
11.07.2008 15:30
So I think from this perspective there is some positive change and I do think the demonstrations have helped to bring this about, and will continue to keep it on the agenda and ensure such projects are followed through.
Z
Z
Glad to see the offer of debate from miners
11.07.2008 15:34
Creating an ecological society cannot be at the expense of human beings, and cannot be achieved by ignoring the needs and interests of working people.
Anyone remember Judi Bari? She was active in the US anti-logging movement - but trying to work with loggers as well. Must have been doing something right, as someone blew her up in a carbomb.
We need to be addressing the problems at source rather than addressing symptoms. If we ignore capitalism, ignore the production relationships that affect us all, we're just a group of ineffectual single issue protestors that are irrelevant to most of the population.
I can't see capitalism collapsing overnight, so agree with Dave Douglass. An intermediate step would be clean coal, with the black stuff sourced here rather than dug out of the ground by kids and shipped halfway across the planet.
social ecologist
On class issues..
11.07.2008 19:39
So what is class nowadays? Most of the real 'working class' are in other countries, doing the manufacturing jobs for our so-called needs. They are the truly exploited.
I live on less than £8,000/year and still live a luxurious existence compared to my exploited brothers and sisters abroad.
The thing is, climate change is affecting people in other countries - the poor and oppressed that make our stuff. So in that case, I agree that climate change is also a class issue, but not class in the traditional sense anymore.
I read on here that Coltan miners earn about £10/week. Don't know what UK miners earn but I expect it's a little more. I don't see why one section of UK workers should call a halt to protests at climate chaos. Adapt. We're all going to have to, sooner or later.
jem
jem jem jem
12.07.2008 00:29
Class is about our relation with Capital. Most of us are working class. We have no choice but to sell our labour. It is this dynamic that is at the heart of capitalism, and one we need to break if we are to create an ecological society.
Ignoring the plight of a group of people who are fucked over and justifying it because others are fucked over even worse is not on. I agree that relying on fossil fuels is not sustainable, but waving away the end of someone's livelihood is not to be taken lightly.
social ecologist
the response from climate camp *was* here....
12.07.2008 12:27
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/06/401999.html (accessed just now, 12 July 13:23)
But it appears to have been removed. Can anyone let us know why that happened?
Makhno
to social ecologist
12.07.2008 14:06
My view is a global perspective as climate change is a global issue, whereas lots of people raging about miners jobs seem to be thinking on a very limited and local scale. That's just fine when you're fighting to keep a small school open or to protect travellers in your area or to stop tree-felling or whatever.
No doubt, slave-traders were pissed off at their jobs coming under threat. Carriage-drivers must have been furious when bicycles became popular. Grocers can't be best pleased at people queuing up to work allotments. And when we no longer need to burn coal to produce electricity, miners will be furious. But because they live here and not Angola, they won't watch their children starve to death or die for lack of basic healthcare as a result.
jem
More discussion..........
12.07.2008 14:51
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=2567#comments
Commie (kill all hippies tendency)
For an alternative plan of production
12.07.2008 15:04
But can workers be convinced of the need to close their own industry? This is not how we should pose the question. The idea of capitalists closing industries under the whip hand of market forces is of course abhorrent. But we shouldn’t give up on the possibility of workers themselves organising to redirect their skills towards socially beneficial outcomes. For us it wouldn’t be a question of closing down the coal industry, it would be a question of reorganising to produce other things (for example turbines for wind, wave and tidal energy, all of which are far more labour intensive than coal) with no loss of pay and substantially better conditions of employment. The Lucas workers certainly didn’t insist on their right to continue making armaments! They drew up a democratic plan for socially useful production. That is the direction we all need to be moving in.
Roy
e-mail: roywilkes59@talktalk.net
Homepage: http://cacctu.wordpress.com/
how fucking dare you
12.07.2008 18:31
compare miners to slave traders. take your working class hatred somewhere else eh
"No doubt, slave-traders were pissed off at their jobs coming under threat."
riotact
Homepage: http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com
Guilty as charged
12.07.2008 20:07
Now I remember why I never post on this site. Within a short space of time, some hierarchical male will tell you to fuck off.
Bye
jem
Why this letter was originally hidden
12.07.2008 21:13
An email was then sent to Indymedia saying that it was "definatley not meant for public consumption" and asking that it be removed, so it was hidden.
The emails about this are here:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-moderation/2008-June/0630-s3.html
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-moderation/2008-June/0630-lc.html
IMC Admin
what is climate camp doing about this?
13.07.2008 19:54
However, I think Climate Camp should respond here about what they are doing to address these issues.
Solidarity,
Makhno
Climate Camp is...
14.07.2008 14:14
Anti-hierarchy, Anti-leaders, Anti-organisation