Racism and football?

Always a Bee | 07.12.2005 03:06 | Anti-racism | London

Recently, an English flag containing the words "Born in England, live in England, die in England" appeared in the away end at a home match between Brentford and Oldham, at Griffin Park, London. Would you consider this racist? Offensive? Worth burning the flag over?

Brentford's manager did as it had upset a number of Brentford's black players. And here are the views from the Brentford's Beesotted fanzine forum. Unsurprisingly maybe, the BNP waded into the debate, labeling the Brentford manager barmy and attempting to stir up further clashes between Brentford fans and those from other clubs.

Always a Bee

Comments

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Links

07.12.2005 03:14

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/news/s/190/190116_racism_row_over_fans_flag.html - Brentford's manager did
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http://boards.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=915&p=16&style=2&forumId=4684&action=1&replytoid=533188550 |

http://boards.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=915&p=16&style=2&forumId=4684&action=1&replytoid=533197401 |

http://boards.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=915&p=16&style=2&forumId=4684&action=1&replytoid=533189294 |

http://boards.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=915&p=16&style=2&forumId=4684&action=1&replytoid=533289438 - Views from the Brentford's Beesotted fanzine forum
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http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=668 - the BNP, labeling the Brentford manager barmy and attempting to stir things up further

Always a Bee

flag2flame

07.12.2005 22:11

"Born in England, live in England, die in England"
Is neither racist nor offensive, it's just sad and unambitious. And every flag was made to be burned, the very sight of one makes me come across all pyro-maniacal. You never indicated what you thought of it but presumably you feel it is racist. I mean I hate the English as much as the next man but really you should reclaim your flag from the racists, and then once you are nice and secure in your own nationality, burn all your flags like you would fireworks.

There is a lot of racism in football, and the BNP do get a lot of recruits from leafletting at grounds, but the message on the flag wasn't the least offensive as it probably applies equally to all races on the pitch if it applies to any of them.

Speaking as a Scotsman (more blue than white most days) who prayed that Gascoine would put Scotland out of Euro 96 because me, my dad and my cousin were certainly getting a kicking in the Leeds pub we watched the game in if Scotland won. Which wouldn't have been racist but wouldn't have been nice either.

Danny

Please Explain

08.12.2005 00:16

Why am I supposed to be ashamed of my race, culture, origins and colour?

Blacks are proud!

Scots are proud!

Yanks are proud!

But when the English are proud, they are racist scum?

Bizzaro

The statement itself isn't racist

08.12.2005 09:52

However racism is largely about perception. The flag was perceived as being a cover for racist attitudes and thus it upset people.

Always a Bee

perceptions are often false

08.12.2005 14:45

In Scotland sectarianism is at least as big a problem as racism, and that is reflected and reinforced by football. When Rangers signed their first black player the typical fans comments were 'that's fine, at least he's not catholic'. And a lot of the sectarianism isn't boldly expressed, it's the local councillor who always carries a red pencil, a blue pen and a white pen in their pocket. That is cover, but it's acceptable if a bid sad imo, but far better than painting the fences and the kerbstones red, white and blue and denying public housing to those of a different faith. ( 'What's green and doesn't move? A catholic on Larkhalls housing list' etc)

If the original message is fine, then the problem isn't with the message the problem is with the players perception of the message. Not knowing much about English football, can I ask if many of Brentfords players were born outside of England ? And did you lose that game ? To be blunt did the players really complain or was the manager using the issue as a smokescreen ?

It's good to be hypersensitive about racism in football but there are so many clear cut and muuch more serious instances of it that this seems a bit like crying wolf, which leads to charges of being overly PC and is generally unproductive.

Danny

Racist flag?

10.12.2005 11:39

To be honest, living in Oldham and supporting Oldham, it's difficult to know whether the flag was menat to be racist or not. There's a load of idiots out there, some racist, some not. It definitely sounds xenophobic, certainly stupid and the club have agreed not to let it be shown again.

knightrose