Pledge to fight the backlash against Muslims

"I will use any opportunity to speak out against racism and hate against Muslims sparked by the London bombings. I will offer support to my Muslim brothers and sisters, regardless of my own faith but only if 100 other people will too."

Support the call for solidarity with British Muslims facing hate attacks following the London bombings.

..
Homepage: http://www.pledgebank.com/hateattacks

Comments

Hide the following 48 comments

Where?

09.08.2005 14:26

1)Where are exactly those attacks happening?

2)Do you mean the attacks in Iraq where terrorists kill other people who are less muslim than them or do you mean in London?

3)And if in London, why is the BBC not reporting about the attacks?

I think Mossad is behind the attacks on muslims in the UK and its censorship in the media.

Fearless

In answer to "Where"?

09.08.2005 15:49

Religious hate crimes, mostly against Muslims, have risen six-fold in London since the bombings, new figures show.

There were 269 religious hate crimes in the three weeks after 7 July, compared with 40 in the same period of 2004.

Most were verbal abuse and minor assaults, but damage to mosques and property with a great "emotional impact" also occurred, police said.

me
Homepage: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4740015.stm

what backlash?

09.08.2005 16:28

In the UK people have been very restrained - no lynching, no mob voilence - in their reaction to the bombings.

probably because there is a lots money around and people are not really bothered, more interested in holidays, the garden, cricket etc. So maybe just the usual British indifference to foreigners.

But if the bombings continue, some retaliation would be expected, wouldnt it? unless the British people are already dead on the inside, that is.

The logic of terrorism

09.08.2005 17:49

RG, what are you suggesting, exactly? You say that "some retaliation" would be expected if the bombings continued "unless the British people are already dead on the inside". It sounds as if you're saying that lynchings and mob violence against innocent Muslims would be justified if the bombings continued. Seems as if you've got a lot in common with the London bombers, who believed that random attacks against the British people were "justified" in retaliation for the war on Iraq...

...

09.08.2005 18:04

Why don't they leave? If they were no longer in the country then they wouldn't have to worry about any backlash.

Coprophile

"no lynching, no mob violence"

09.08.2005 18:15

RG, why don't you try telling this man's family that the response has been "very restrained":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4723339.stm

You might want see "Krystal Nacht" mob attacks on Muslims in our country, but just remember what that makes you.

response to coprophile

09.08.2005 18:52

Why don't YOU leave, "coprophile" - then you wouldn't have to worry about living in a democratic society where we stand up for the rights of innocent people against racist bullies.

Friar Tuck

Backlash

10.08.2005 09:17

There's bound to be a back lash unfortunately, until muslims flush out the fascists living among their community people will continue to associate Islam with repression and violence. I've got no time for any religion especially Islam which to me seems very backward and violent compared to Budhism or even Christianity but I wouldn't wish any violence, verbal or otherwise on anyone.

georgie

Minorities commit more than their fair share of attacks!

10.08.2005 11:32

What about attacks on white people. According to the council figures i have looked at (from various councils), minorities commit far more than their fair share of racial attacks. In fact percentage wise they account for more racial attacks than whites - so therefore must be more racist.

Why not call for the solidarity of the minority communities, if you care so much about racism . Not a single thing mentioned on TV about David henkel who was stomped to death in Kent by Muslim Albanians or Rich Whelan who was stabbed several times by a black man on a bus.

If you are wanting to stop racism - the figures show you should first start with the minorities.

The trouble with this country is that we are made out to believe that racism is a white persons phenomenon, when in reality it cuts all ways - especially against white people.

Dont take my word for it - check it out through the freedom of information act.

Max

Democracy?

10.08.2005 11:43

What has democracy got to do with looking after innocent people. It was his democratic right to say what he wishes. Who are you, some fascist who dictates what people should say. Democracy does not protect innocent people from racism. People protect minorities fromm racism by voting for a party which is anti-racist.

What if the BNP was elected through the ballot box - through democracy. They have won through the democratic process, so would you be then happy to see minorities bulldozed into buses/trains and deported?

Do you agree with democracy? Or do you only believe in democracy when it is your opinion being aired, and wish to silence anyone who disagrees with you.

If so - that is not democracy that is fascism.

Max

So where are the figures Max?

10.08.2005 12:33

Hey Max, can you provide proof of your claims that minorities cuase more racial attacks than whites - could you provide some links, cos you seem to think there's loads of eviidence?

Miss Point

Max's figures

10.08.2005 13:37

He thinks that because he's a retarded fascist idiot.

Tony

"Democracy?"

10.08.2005 14:43

I'm not dictating what people can and can't say; I'm disagreeing with someone who seems to think it's OK to attack innocent people on the basis of their religion. Disagreeing with someone's opinion isn't the same as trying to forbid them from expressing that opinion.

But yes, there are people, like Mr. "Coprophile", whose opinions are so distasteful that it's hard to see how they can really fit into a modern, multicultural, democratic society. If he isn't happy living alongside people of a different race or religion, then he is the one who doesn't belong here, and he's the one who should be leaving.

I'm all for freedom of expression, though. Personally, I'm quite happy for the BNP and their ilk to be given a platform for their views, because every time they open their mouths they make idiots of themselves.

Democracy isn't just about having elections; it's about creating a society where free and fair elections are possible. Actually, I do think that protecting the rights of minorities is integral to any genuinely democratic system, because you can't have a free and fair election without assuring security, by giving everyone equal protection under the law. But it's also true that, in practice, democratic societies generally defend the rights of innocent people far more effectively than undemocratic ones. In practice, very few of us would seriously consider voting for a racist party like the BNP. I wouldn't personally want to see the BNP barred from standing in elections, although I would say that individual candidates with criminal records (I know this is often a problem for the BNP) should be excluded.

But even if a racist party did manage to get themselves elected, there would be serious limits on what policies they could legitimately enact. There is a difference between democracy and mob-rule, and having a democratic mandate is not the same as having absolute power. For example, if a democratically-elected government decided to commit genocide against a particular ethnic minority, that would be wrong, even if millions of people had voted for that government and even if "we will commit genocide in our first term of office" was article number one in their manifesto. Democratically elected governments are still bound by basic standards of human rights, because if you ignore those standards you destroy the conditions under which free and fair elections are possible, and thereby stop being a democracy.

Friar Tuck

Hijacking History

10.08.2005 15:50

"You might want see "Krystal Nacht" mob attacks on Muslims in our country"

Muslims are always trying to equate themselves to the Jews. Given the opportunity, Muslims will gleefully participate in a reinactment of the real Kristalnacht
Tell the Children the Truth

Ali ibn Sharmootah
Homepage: http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com

Max's figures

10.08.2005 16:06

Sorry to correct you tony, but

He thinks that because he's a retarded fascist idiot, who surfs indy trying to degenerate every discussion with his fascist bullshit.

Grant W

English

10.08.2005 22:52

"He thinks that because"
No wonder our children are so stupid with retards who can not construct a sentance teaching them.

He thinks ! And Me thinks !!!! LOL !!!!!!!!

Dolly The Sheeple

LOL

10.08.2005 23:08

I love being insulted.

Another argument won. Have you heard of the freedom of information act? If you have use it. If you havent you are not worth arguing against.

Do some digging. Dont just take what your lentil munching lecturer at Uni says as gospil.

Not a fascist, just an open minded person who likes seeing what arguments you have. I may not even agree with my own post, i may be saying it to see what the argument against it is - to develop my own feelings. I like to discuss politics though through facts. You dont like facts. Facts wash away theories. The figures i quoted in my last post are from a number of councils across the country. These figures are not my figures. So why am i insulted? Have you rung up and insult the Council? Why cant you discuss a point of view intelligently or with someone who has a slightly different point of view? Or is it that you just dont know?

What are you afraid of?

Seems to me you are afraid of your own argument. Can it stand up under close scrutiny? It appears not. I believe in freedom for all, i will listen to all, and i will learn from all.

This way your mind and your point of view and the things that touch your heart really develop.

Max

Fascists and Democracy

11.08.2005 08:57

Friar Tuck seems to think that if the BNP got elected as the government it would work within the limits of Democratic discourse but look at history another nazi party won the election in 1932 in Germany and 1933 and then created a society that was probably the least democratic the world has seen. The BNP will use democracy to destroy it, they will do what Hitler did when he got into power and like Hitler they will try and hide their true politics till then.

adrian cannon

BNP etc.

11.08.2005 10:24

I wasn't saying that I think the BNP would behave like democrats in the unlikely event that they got themselves elected. I think you may well be right that they'd use democracy to destroy it, just like the Nazis did. I think that if the BNP came to power we'd probably end up fighting a civil war, and I know which side I'd be on.

But by slapping bans on them we'd allow them to claim "victim" status. They're already making out that they're unpopular only because of some kind of state-led conspiracy against them, rather than the real reason, which is that their policies suck and the vast majority of people in this country disagree with everything they stand for. The more exposure they get, the more clear it is how hollow and empty they are.

Tuck

Banning BNP

11.08.2005 12:38

To Tuck I did not say ban them as you said this would give them martyr status but I think we have to make sure they do not get elected and do the utmost to stop them pushing their racist filth especially on websites like this where recently they have infiltrated and posted links to BNP websites see "Bombers are the same as BNP2

Adrian Cannon

BNP etc.

11.08.2005 13:15

Adrian, I agree! We have to stand up against racism and hatred wherever we see it, now more than ever. That's what this pledgebank campaign is all about:

http://www.pledgebank.com/hateattacks

If you agree, please do join us - and feel free to add your comments to the discussion that goes alongside it.

Tuck

No debate with fascists

11.08.2005 14:22

Do not debate with scum show them no mercy with boots and fists!

Spirit of 1936

why only then?

11.08.2005 15:20

Why are you only pledging to be an anti-racist if 100 other people are too? You can believe that way more than 100 people around the UK are already committed to challenging racism and do it on a regular basis. I would suggest that you just get out there and do it.

'nother yank

why?

11.08.2005 17:50

Fair point that we should be doing this whether or not we reach the 100 target - but it is a useful device for mobilising people... Just by having this discussion online we've been challenging racist thinking, albeit in a small way.

Boots and fists...

11.08.2005 18:00

Nah... Jaw-jaw better than war-war. Fight them if you have to, but I'd rather try and talk 'em round first. I don't believe anyone's beyond hope.

Pygmalion

Max's figures

12.08.2005 08:56

You all seem to have access to data which I cannot find - I've followed the links mentioned but would like to see the ones that max refers to to get a balance - hey max will you post?

ok, but...

12.08.2005 09:35

...I feel like the point of mobilising people is to get together to take part in some kind of collective action, not to do things as individuals. Are you considering organising an active group to do outreach and whatnot? To make it clear to the multitudes of innocent Muslims that there are still white people on their side and to find out what kind of support would be the most helpful?

Mainly I'm asking because I would want to be involved in something like this. I posted an article about this a few weeks back with the express intent of working with other people to develop strategies and didn't get much of a response to it.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/319729.html

At least I didn't get a bunch of racist apologists on the thread. The only thing that seems to get people charged up on Indymedia is to argue their opinion, not to actually take any collective action. I think maybe trying to organise through the internet, unless it's a call for bodies at a demo, is not the best way to work. That might be because nearly everyone who posts comments on Indymedia seems to think that anyone who even slightly disagrees with them is a secret government agent. Not me, I'm interested to hear about any plans for organising.

'nother yank

Response to 'nother yank

12.08.2005 13:32

With all these secret government agents spending all their time posting comments on Indymedia it's hardly surprising Bin Laden's still around!

Seriously though, those are some good points. The answer is that I don't know if the girl who initiated the online pledge thing has thoughts on developing it into some kind of collective action. I think someone ought to. I think she can be contacted via the web page though:

http://www.pledgebank.com/hateattacks.

Friar Tuck

West Yorks Police Website

13.08.2005 13:38

The West Yorkshire Police website is a good place to start. In 2004-2005 there was 2686 racially motivated incidents. Of these 36% were commited against white people and 64% against minorities.

But when you look at population figures for Yorkshire you will find that minorities make up only 11.4% of the population.

This means statistically minorities are over 3 times more likely to attack a white person than the other way round.

Visit the site - dont take my word for it.

Maximus - always tells the truth.

Max

let's think max

13.08.2005 16:46

When the police are mostly white and have a history of institutional racism, who do you think will be more comfortable reporting their abuse? Are you suggesting that we take the statistics from the police as gospel? Would you also assume that every single rape is also reported to the police, despite the trillions of studies that suggest otherwise?

This isn't a call for people to point fingers and place blame, it's a recognition of our duty as anti-racist white people to challenge racist abuse and violence. If you don't agree with that and have no plans to act, then there is no need for you to be on this thread anymore.

'nother yank

What nonsense.

13.08.2005 17:48

If you believe your ridiculous argument it is you who should not post.

What about people taking a bit of responsibility. Is it any wonder racism is out of control when people like you constantly make excuses for certain racial groups. As well as being patronising to minorities, it is also racist towards whites.

It is not just minorities which dont bother to complain to the police. how many times do you hear tales of all people not bothering to report crimes because the police are useless. And even if it was the case that some minorities didnt report crimes this does not explain the figures.

3 Times more likely. Not a bit more but 3 times.

You are grasping at straws mate.

Max

who says people don't?

13.08.2005 19:20

I have on many occasions challenged black or asian people I know when they say derrogatory things about the other. How would you know if people aren't doing this?

The call here is to show some solidarity with British Muslims to demonstrate that we don't all think they are guilty of these bombings by proxy. If you have such an objection to this, again, why are you still on this thread?

As the old adage goes: there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Anyone who believes them as pure truth is the one who is blinkered.

'nother yank

statistical reinterpretation

14.08.2005 12:19

Another way of looking at these statistics that Max has pointed us to is this:

White people make up 88.6% of the population but only 36% of the victims
People of colour make up only 11.4% of the population but are 64% of the victims

The way I see that, people of colour are way more likely to be the victims of racist violence than white people. It can mean that each non-white person in West Yorkshire has been the victim of racist violence nearly six times, whereas only half of the white population have ever been victims once.

This is again assuming, like he wants us to, that these statistics represent the true extent of racist violence and that all the crimes are reported to the police.

In the (slightly ammended) words of Flava Flav, don't believe the (racist) hype.

'nother yank

Nonsense

14.08.2005 15:24

You have behaved exactly as i pointed out. Your statistical twisting merely illustrates your lack of desire to tackle the real problems. It is pointless arguing with you, because you have an ingrained inability to come to terms with the facts that maybe racism isnt a white phenomenon - but that it is something deeply embedded within certain ethnic minority communities.

Admit it. I know it hurts you to admit that the white community is on the receiving end of a 3 times as racist ethnic minority population (or so the figures say). It sort of negates the years of telling white people to stop being racist, because the figures show they are clearly not (or statistically not as much as their neighbours). Is ignoring this form of racism going to solve the problem? There is probably alot of reasons for this increase in racial attacks, like reverse racism., But we mustn't through our own personal inuendos ignore the problem and pretend in doesn't exist. It is immoral and racist to twist the numbers to come to the conclusion we feeel happy (in ourselves) with.

To deal with the problem you have to first admit it exists.

Remember the quote from the local Conservative Asian Councillor, "the Asian community has a deep loathing of the white community."

Is he lieing?

Max

who voted you professor?

14.08.2005 19:34

Why is your interpretation of those statistics legit and mine not? They are both conclusions that can be reached from that set of numbers. Take a very basic social science course and you might learn about how much bias goes into interpreting quantitative data. Your interpretation verifies your conclusion and my interpretation verifies mine.

This is why social scientists don't read statistics as fact and weigh qualiitative date just as heavily. If anything, this little exercise has only proven my original point that statistics cannot be read as a representation of real experience.

In terms of your conservative Asian MPs quote, I think that only demonstrates where your politics are coming from. I prefer to listen to the myriad voices of people of colour who write about how much white racism destoys communites of people of colour: bell hooks, Edward Said, Frantz Fanon, Aimé Césaire, James Baldwin (I could name more) or even the white people like Tim Wise, not to mention all the people of colour I actually talk to and work with on a daily basis. Or don't any of those people's views and experiences count because they don't back up your opinion?

It is anything but easy to be a white person, accept that you benefit from a racist society and then go out to challenge that racism. It is however, very easy, to say that white people are no more guilty than anyone else of being racist and therefore deny any responsibility in challenging racism and try to prevent other people from challenging that system.

In answer your question "Is he lieing?" I don't know. Maybe he's lying. Maybe you are too.

'nother yank

Good argument

16.08.2005 20:43

Good argument, but i see which way you are going. The fact that you interpret statistics in your own way, and read books which back your own theories, really shows how your brain is programmed to behave in a particular way. Its Karl Marx reconstituted!

So when you see a set of statistics, your inability to face up to problems within communities, are excused by your interpretation of a statistic. Just like your quote about white racism. The fact that you didnt mention black or Asian racism although that is what the discussion has been all about, has enabled you to focus the argument on other aspects of racism.

You are blinkered. You didnt even answer the question about the Asian councillor. You talk about white racism, but I havent heard a white Councillor say that 'the white community have a deeping loathing for the Asian community. I suppose that is because the councillors are institutionaly racist.

Why do you always relate to white racism? Are you a racist?

Max

excellent detective work Max

17.08.2005 13:46

You've caught me red handed. I'm the racist. I'm one of those crazy kids who lets petty things like imperialism, colonialism, slavery, lynching and well, pretty much all of our history distort my view of who the real purpetrators of racism are. I should know that the situation at this moment exists in a complete vacuum from what has happened around the world for the past 6000 years.

All these racist black and Asian folks are really stopping white people's chances of being in power in our world, they are blocking their chances of getting into good schools and climbing the corporate ladder and even running our nations. It's the fault of racist people of colour that jobs are moving to the developing world because they are willing to work for piss poor wages. And to bring it back to the original discussion (which was about white racism against Muslims just to clear things up) it's the fault of those racist British Muslims en masse that non-Muslim Brits are angry about the bombings and want to find a scapegoat.

So thanks for all of your insightful comments. I'm going to stop caring about white privilege, embrace it and step on anyone I can to make my way to the top of the racial hierarchy. 'Cause hey, if other people in the world are racist, why shouldn't I be? Why waste my time fighting it? To use the words of that horrible racist Martin Luther King Jr. "Good god almighty I have seen the light!"

'nother yank

MAX IS A LIAR

18.08.2005 20:32

Where are you looking for racism max ?
take these incidents
Tempest Road beeston 12.50 am saturday night, 2 white males drop a mcDonalds wrapper in to a muslim house family garden.

Harehills lane , white nurse traveling to work collides with muslim taxi drivers car at pedestrian crossing causing £50 worth of damage to a toyota avensis, the police arrive after a gang surround the scene and the taxi driver is prosecuted for no insurance, despite been the agressor the women gives police a statement.

Beeston Leeds, 3 white males order take away food to the value of £11.50 after paying for the food and waiting 40 minuets for the food they walk out of the shop without the food, the asian shop owner is forced to reheat the food and resell it.

Racism and the backlash against the muslim community is widespread, MAX IS BLIND

dolly the sheeple

Anti white racism!

22.08.2005 16:18

Anti white racism is a new form of racism, which has grown through the breakdown of the multi-cultural society.

Ignored by white liberals, and promoted by fundamentalists, (did you see Panorama, last night about Muslim fundamentalists - scary).

Funny how the old empire, colonialism and slavery always comes up when talking about racism.

Whites were slaves too, kids worked in mines, died in factories and many more. Blacks were slave owners and whites bought slaves from the black slave owners. In Britain the working class white never got anything from the Empire and slavery. The working class white man gave his life up in the first world war - and they werent even allowed to vote! So how can they be to blame. How can we be to blame for a few peoples behaviour? If we are to blame, and we must repay them for our sins - does this include all the other invasions throughout history? Is it justified if we invade Rome?

England banned slavery - yet it stills continues today in Africa run by black people,and other places like Israel.

Maybe self loathing liberals ought to go over to Africa and enlighten the natives on human rights and stop slavery! Instead of using the actions of a few white elitists hundreds of years ago to justify the vicious self hatred they have for themselves.

But then again, if they do - is that not imperialism?

Max

Mistrust Of The Police

27.08.2005 02:40

Asian and black people report race crime far less than white people, inflating the figures to give a false representation of the truth.

Most hate crimes (not just those reported) are committed by white on non-white or immigrant people - but official statistics rarely tell the truth, when whole communities mistrust officialdom, and the police.

If anyone saw "The Secret Policeman" they will understand why young black and Asian people mustrust the police.

They wore Ku Klux Klan caps, and talked about murdering Asian people under trains.

Most officers are okay, but there are many "bad eggs" who intimidate black and Asian people.

Stephen Lawrence's friends got intimidated and harrassed by the police.

White Supremacy is always gonna fail........

Peace, yo!!!

SpongeBob

Get A Life, Max (aka Mark Collett)

27.08.2005 02:48

Maxwell, babe,
why do you publish racist and homophobic remarks on this website, when there's always deerie Don Black's "Stormponce" website to frequent???

And, is it true, you're mentally ill???

Sick-in-the-head racists like you, have a persecution complex. How is it, you don't like being called a Nazi, when you fancy shagging Hitler???

Hitler Bunker Buster

Smallmember

27.08.2005 03:01

Max, (Mark Collett) has a weenie willy.....

Hiah, Max(Min)

Everyone knows the famous moment at uni when this girl dissed Mark for having a matchstick lovemaking (or "hatemaking") organ.

The only way we'll know for sure you're not Mark Collett "pimpin' his hide", is when we get to see the size of your male member.

Stop being such a pr*ck, and the next time you show up in Beeeston around pub-closing time, unzip yourself, stick out your "truncheon", and show it to us.

Oh, and don't worry about exposing yourself in public before your neo-Nazi Goebels-like friends...... Nazis are all the same - They harrass, hate, and persecute gay people just like your "Fetish-Idol" Adolf, but in reality, you are all secretly gay.

Tommy Gun

The Cat's Out The Bag

27.08.2005 03:25

Max, i.e. Mark Collett, made this homemade picture of Adolf Hitler nude, using photo-editing software. It's huge, and he printed out the seperate parts, and stuck the bits together using sellotape (like Blue Peter, folks).

He wanks daily before his adored picture, like the racist, Hitler-worhsipping fuck he is.

Sorry for revealing your sordid lovelife, Max.

Spank Me, Deerie!!!

Show Us Your P&nis

27.08.2005 03:28

In the immortalised words of "Goldie Lookin' Chain", prove once and for all you are Mark Collett by showing us your p3nis.

It's the size of a matchstick, me thinks.......

Lilo Linda

Fancy A Spanking???

27.08.2005 03:59

We're gonna spank your peachy kinky ass, Max....

Mistress Smakker

studentmedia

31.08.2005 13:09

Tempest Road beeston 12.50 am saturday night, 2 white males drop a mcDonalds wrapper in to a muslim house family garden.

How this seen as racist?.Is throwing litter now seen as a hate crime?.

mr lustbather

KEEP BRITAIN TIDY

31.08.2005 17:00

THATS RACIST!!!

Mr Lustbather

Hey Hitler Bunker Buster

03.09.2005 11:08

You have used mental illness as method of insult.

Do not add to the stigma attached to mental illness.

Max sounds like a fascist who does try to relate every subject on indy to immigration and he may well get off on dressing up ~ but I would bet that he gets a bigger kick out of the inflammed responses that he gets on indy.

expose the lie, invalidate the lie, kill fascism.

In pursuit of max