“Gay Palestinians are being beaten, tortured and murdered by factions of the PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Palestinian Authority,” according to Peter Tatchell of the queer rights group OutRage!
“Gay Palestinians are being beaten, tortured and murdered by factions of the PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Palestinian Authority,” according to Peter Tatchell of the queer rights group OutRage!
“The Palestinian administration tolerates the so-called ‘honour’ killing of women who refuse to submit to the strict rules of orthodox Islam,” he added.
OutRage! activists took their message of “Freedom for all Palestinians – straight and gay, men and women” to the “Free Palestine” rally in Trafalgar Square, London, today, Saturday 21 May.
“OutRage! supports the Palestinian struggle for freedom and justice. The Israeli occupation must end. But so must the violent sexism and homophobia of the Palestinian Authority (PA) and of the Palestinian political movements like Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO),” said Mr Tatchell.
Under the slogan of “Freedom For All Palestinians” the OutRage! placards urged:
”No more killing of lesbians & gays by PLO and PA”
”Hamas & PLO torture and murder gays. Shame!”
”Stop "honour" killing of gays & women in Palestine”
“Israel: Stop persecuting Palestine! Palestine: Stop persecuting queers!”
“Last year, we were shoved, abused, shouted down and threatened by other protesters, and by stewards and rally organisers from the Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC). They also blocked out our placards with their banners,” recalls OutRage! campaign coordinator, Brett Lock.
“This year we received a much more sympathetic reception. Most people took our leaflets (copy below). We seem to be winning over the pro-Palestinian movement, despite the efforts of the rally organisers – the Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC) – to encourage their supporters to reject our concerns.
“As we mingled in the crowd distributing leaflets, PSC stewards urged people not to take our hand-outs and told them, falsely, that we were lying and trying to split the Palestine solidarity movement. These dirty, underhand tactics dishonour the Palestinian cause.
“PSC stewards refused to take our leaflets or to discuss the issues we were raising. A small number of protestors half-heartedly tried to block our placards with their placards. Apart from a couple of jeers of ‘faggots’, most other protestors eagerly took our leaflets and several expressed overt support for the rights of Palestinian women and gay people. In contrast to last year, the sympathies of those attending the rally seem to have shifted in our favour.
“Some protesters said raising gay and women’s rights at a Free Palestine protest was ‘inappropriate’. For these people there is never an appropriate time to press for the rights of women and gays. Our rights are never a priority. We are always expendable for the sake of the bigger, wider cause.
“OutRage! is disappointed by Amnesty International’s inaction on this issue.
Amnesty has declined our requests to report on the torture and murder of gay Palestinians, stating that it lacks the resources. The OutRage! website, however, documents evidence that Amnesty could easily corroborate and publish. We are very disappointed by Amnesty’s reluctance to defend the human rights of lesbian and gay Palestinians.
“Examples of violent homophobic persecution by the Palestinian factions and the Palestinian Authority can be found on the OutRage! website www.outrage.org.uk (go to Briefings and then to Palestinian Gays).
”Since last year, when we protested at the Free Palestine rally, we tried to have a dialogue with the PSC but they refuse to meet us. They have also ignored our dossier on the abuse of gay Palestinians and our requests for them to raise the torture and murder of queers with the Palestinian authorities. In effect, the PSC colludes with the torturers and killers of queers. That is why we had to protest.
”Our presence made many supporters of the Palestinian struggle aware of the violent homophobic persecution inflicted on Palestinian lesbians and gays. We hope they will now support the just struggle of gay Palestinians and pressure the Palestinian movements and government to halt their homophobic victimization,” concluded Mr Lock.
OutRage! is urging everyone who wants justice and freedom for the women and gay people of Palestine to protest to the Palestinian representative in the UK, Afif Safieh. Email him:
Palestinianuk@aol.com
“The Palestinian administration tolerates the so-called ‘honour’ killing of women who refuse to submit to the strict rules of orthodox Islam,” he added.
OutRage! activists took their message of “Freedom for all Palestinians – straight and gay, men and women” to the “Free Palestine” rally in Trafalgar Square, London, today, Saturday 21 May.
“OutRage! supports the Palestinian struggle for freedom and justice. The Israeli occupation must end. But so must the violent sexism and homophobia of the Palestinian Authority (PA) and of the Palestinian political movements like Hamas and the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO),” said Mr Tatchell.
Under the slogan of “Freedom For All Palestinians” the OutRage! placards urged:
”No more killing of lesbians & gays by PLO and PA”
”Hamas & PLO torture and murder gays. Shame!”
”Stop "honour" killing of gays & women in Palestine”
“Israel: Stop persecuting Palestine! Palestine: Stop persecuting queers!”
“Last year, we were shoved, abused, shouted down and threatened by other protesters, and by stewards and rally organisers from the Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC). They also blocked out our placards with their banners,” recalls OutRage! campaign coordinator, Brett Lock.
“This year we received a much more sympathetic reception. Most people took our leaflets (copy below). We seem to be winning over the pro-Palestinian movement, despite the efforts of the rally organisers – the Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC) – to encourage their supporters to reject our concerns.
“As we mingled in the crowd distributing leaflets, PSC stewards urged people not to take our hand-outs and told them, falsely, that we were lying and trying to split the Palestine solidarity movement. These dirty, underhand tactics dishonour the Palestinian cause.
“PSC stewards refused to take our leaflets or to discuss the issues we were raising. A small number of protestors half-heartedly tried to block our placards with their placards. Apart from a couple of jeers of ‘faggots’, most other protestors eagerly took our leaflets and several expressed overt support for the rights of Palestinian women and gay people. In contrast to last year, the sympathies of those attending the rally seem to have shifted in our favour.
“Some protesters said raising gay and women’s rights at a Free Palestine protest was ‘inappropriate’. For these people there is never an appropriate time to press for the rights of women and gays. Our rights are never a priority. We are always expendable for the sake of the bigger, wider cause.
“OutRage! is disappointed by Amnesty International’s inaction on this issue.
Amnesty has declined our requests to report on the torture and murder of gay Palestinians, stating that it lacks the resources. The OutRage! website, however, documents evidence that Amnesty could easily corroborate and publish. We are very disappointed by Amnesty’s reluctance to defend the human rights of lesbian and gay Palestinians.
“Examples of violent homophobic persecution by the Palestinian factions and the Palestinian Authority can be found on the OutRage! website www.outrage.org.uk (go to Briefings and then to Palestinian Gays).
”Since last year, when we protested at the Free Palestine rally, we tried to have a dialogue with the PSC but they refuse to meet us. They have also ignored our dossier on the abuse of gay Palestinians and our requests for them to raise the torture and murder of queers with the Palestinian authorities. In effect, the PSC colludes with the torturers and killers of queers. That is why we had to protest.
”Our presence made many supporters of the Palestinian struggle aware of the violent homophobic persecution inflicted on Palestinian lesbians and gays. We hope they will now support the just struggle of gay Palestinians and pressure the Palestinian movements and government to halt their homophobic victimization,” concluded Mr Lock.
OutRage! is urging everyone who wants justice and freedom for the women and gay people of Palestine to protest to the Palestinian representative in the UK, Afif Safieh. Email him:
Palestinianuk@aol.com 
e-mail:
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Comments
Hide the following 27 comments
Freedom for all Palestinians
23.05.2005 11:25
Freedom for all Palestinians
Stop killing women and gays
OutRage! is here today to support the Palestinian struggle for freedom and justice. The Israeli occupation must end.
But we are also here to protest against the so-called “honour” killing of Palestinian women, and the arrest, jailing, torture and murder of lesbian and gay Palestinians by factions of the PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Palestinian Authority.
Freedom for Palestine doesn’t mean freedom for straight men to abuse the human rights of Palestinian women and gays. Israeli occupation is no excuse for violent sexism and homophobia.
Examples of Palestinian homophobic persecution can be found on the OutRage! website www.outrage.org.uk (go to Briefings and then to Palestinian Gays).
At the request of Palestinian women and gay people, for nearly 10 years OutRage! has attempted to raise these issues with the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and with the PLO and the Palestinian Authority. All our letters, faxes and emails are ignored. All our requests for meetings have been rejected. All our dossiers on these human rights abuses are dismissed.
That is why we are here today: the PSC and PLO/PA refuse to even discuss the oppression of women and gays. By their silence and inaction, they collude with it.
The only liberation worth fighting for is liberation for all Palestinians – men and women, straight and gay.
Misogyny and homophobia weaken and undermine the Palestinian struggle by setting men against women and straights and gays. Now, more than ever, the Palestinian nation needs to be united to fight Israeli oppression. There can be no unity, and no victory, while the Palestinian leadership tolerates the oppression of women and gays.
Please join us in protesting to the Palestinian representative in the UK, Afif Safieh. Email him:
Freedom for Palestine – including women and gay Palestinians
OutRage! News Service
media[AT]outrage.org.uk
23.05.2005 12:57
After all, you put Afief Safieh's email address so that all the spambots could get it.
When can we look forward to you guys arranging your own demo, and updating your news briefings? - its all a bit out of date now.........
ftp
e-mail:
media@outrage.org.uk
FTP
23.05.2005 13:31
Qwerty
Lesbians and Gays Support the Palestinians - Fuck 'Outrage'
23.05.2005 14:22
This was primarily to provide solidarity to one group of people under attack from another.
We did NOT make this conditional. We did not say on our banners 'Thatcher - Stop oppressing miners - miners stop oppressing gays'. There were no if's, no but's.
We were conscious, however, of the macho, sexist and homophobic traditions amongst mining communities - traditions that would hold them back in their own struggle. Nevertheless, our acts of solidarity helped transform the consciousness of many miners - and NUM branches lead that years Lesbian and Gay Pride march. This was part of a general winning over of the Trades Union and workers movements to make a stand against racism, sexism and homophobia - the oppressions that divide us all.
We need to do the same with the struggle over the middle east. We should have 'Lesbians and Gays Against the War', Lesbians and Gays Support the Palestinians'. Plain and simple. No if's, no buts. The Palestinian and Iraqi people who are resisting imperialism, war and occupation deserve and need our support. And as an oppressed community ourselves, as Lesbians and Gays we should provide that unconditionally.
We should make it clear that we wish to strengthen the struggle of the oppressed Palestinian and Iraqi peoples against imperialism, and that our secular and emancipatory Queer Revolutionary politics have this aim. We should try and avoid any stance which makes it appear that Lesbians and Gays wish to line up with the western imperialist and Zionist oppressors. We must dispel any illusion that we think imperialism and zionism are somehow 'more progressive' on questions of sexual liberation. Unfortunately 'Outrage' have consistently shown their lack of sensitivity and the necessary tactical sophistication on questions of racism and imperialism. They are in danger of providing imperialism with yet another weapon with which to beat the worlds black and brown people into submission.
We must understand that for the majority of people from the global south and its diasporas, homophobia can only be destroyed along with the racism, imperialism, zionism and capitalism that it is so deeply intertwined with.
Barry Kade
No one should speak out against torture and murder?
23.05.2005 15:46
Will you take to the streets if the persecution of gay Palestinians continues in a post-liberated Palestine? No way!
Why? For the same reason no one is taking to the streets to protest the arrests, torture or executions of gays in Saudi Arabia, Iran or Egypt. For the same` reason there wasn't a wimper of protest against the treatment of gays in Cuba... Gay lives are cheap and no one gives a damn anyway.
If you want to talk tactics, why not suggest to the Palestinian leadership that doing to gays what the Israeli's do to them is not the best way to attract international solidarity.
I'm glad at least one group isn't prepared to sweep torture and murder under the rug because it's inconvenient to mention it.
Qwerty
or
23.05.2005 17:10
...and neither is their much protest in the UK against the treatment of Lesbians and Gays in most of the countries where we are oppressed....do you/I/we even know what happens to Lesbians and Gays under the Myanmar/Burmese police dictatorship? or in Uzbekistan, or China...or even under the Bush regime in the USA? Why only mention a certain group of states here?
Barry Kade
States of states
23.05.2005 17:55
Because we're talking about a particular region which, if unchecked, all signs seem to indicate that a liberated Palestine will most likely imitate in its treatment of gays.
But since you mention it, where is the condemnation from the mainstream Left of human rights abuses against queers in those countries you list ? It doesn't exist.
(And let's get some perspective. Even with the disgusting religious-right backlash, gays do not face torture and execution in Bush's America. The US has hundreds of well-funded and influentual queer-rights groups.)
Do you honestly believe that through gay groups showing unconditional and uncritical solidarity, the torture, arrests and murders of queer Palestinians will stop?
I don't. That's why I'd tend to support initiatives to apply political pressure on the Palestinian leadership to extend and enhance their own committment to basic human rights values. In the long term that will hasten Palestinian liberation, double international support and provide a far more satisfactory outcome than turning a blind eye to human rights abuses in the name of 'solidarity'.
Qwerty
unconditional but critical support for the Palestinian struggle....
23.05.2005 19:47
Indeed, this criticism is sometimes the most useful form of solidarity - when that criticism comes from forces that are clearly and unconditionally on the side of the liberation struggle.
But 'Outrage' and some postings here give the impression that support for the Palestinians should be conditional on their support for Lesbian and Gay rights.
However, should solidarity with the oppressed merely be based upon calculated reciprocity? Or should it be treated as a basic principle? Only if we place this latter principle first can we establish the mutual bonds of solidarity between different oppressed groups and populations. And only this can break down the mutual walls of prejudice and ignorance, of homophobia, Islamophobia, racism, anti-semitism and sexism that divide the world and hold it down in its stranglehold of injustice.
Barry Kade
Homophobic???
23.05.2005 22:26
So, I'll try again - when can we look forward to OUTRAGE! organising it's own demo for gay rights in Palestine, and when is OUTRAGE! going to put some recent links up on it's website?
Not difficult questions at all.
Of course, if you'd rather explain how they're homophobic, I'm all ears....
:)
ftp
The PA
23.05.2005 22:28
Which certainly will be news to me.
Last time I looked, it was the Israeli army running tings in the Occupied Territories ....
ftp
FTP
24.05.2005 07:44
Why don't you ask them. Clearly you know how to cut and paste their email address.
In the meantime, why not tell us what you object to in their statement on Palestinian gays and why you think it is wrong to ask people to write to the PA to object to the treatment of gays.
Qwerty
Reciprocity
24.05.2005 07:53
Well, I've re-read the Outrage statement twice and I don't see where there's any suggestion that solidarity should be conditional. It says, and I quote:
"OutRage! supports the Palestinian struggle for freedom and justice. The Israeli occupation must end."
It does not say, (as you're suggesting) that Outrage will agree to support the Palestinian cause only if the Palestinians agree to stop murdering gays. It doesn not say that Outrage will only call for an end to the occupation if there is no homophobia in Palestine.
So it is not, (as you claim), "condiditional". It is an unconditional call for liberation of Palestine, but it is critical - which you're apparently in favor of - so why are you complaining?
Qwerty
Also, on your shit website
24.05.2005 08:01
For an organisation that is so vociferous in it's "protection of the rights of Palestinian Gays", that appears to be a major oversite.
Why not show that you can do more than hijack other peoples demos, and sling around accusations of homophobia against people you've never met, or slept with.
ftp
Their email address
24.05.2005 08:29
I had to change it first becuase they had protected theirs from spambots, whilst leaving Afif Safieh's there for all the spambots to pick up.
Which kinda gives lie to your claim of "unconditional support"
What I object to is their tactic of hijacking a rally to make their single point, especially as they put an increasingly orientalist spin on it.
Here's a blog entry which lays it out:
"A friend of mine told me that Peter Tatchell was again at the Free Palestine demo yesterday. Apparently he was with a group of about thirty people (with a police escort) bearing placards saying "Stop the Honour Killings". The expression "honour killings" is usually used to refer to domestic murders of women deemed unworthy. It's used by western Orientalists to suggest that there is something worse about this than the two women killed by men every week in the UK. So why is Tatchell using the expression to condemn the killing of gays in Palestine? And why does he see fit to demonstrate against Palestinians at a Free Palestine rally? When he first invade the demo last year he bore a placard with the inane slogan "Israel stop persecuting Palestine - Palestine stop persecuting queers". Now by conflating homophobia in the third world with extreme domestic violence, and putting as orientalist a spin on it as he could think of, he's crossed the line from seeking to embarrass Palestinian officialdom to full-blown anti-Arab racism and Islamophobia."
And I didn't go looking for OUTRAGE!, they came here to post their drivel - so, I am asking here - why don't they organise their own demos, why don't they have newer links than July 2004 to illustrate their point, and why is there no comment about "International Pride" - which Palestinian gays will be unable to attend, on their website?
I'd also be delighted to know what it is they think that the Palestinian delegate in London can do to help their cause........
BTW QWERTY when are you going to explain how you get to call me homophobic? What is the basis of your lie?
ftp
FTP's homophobia
24.05.2005 09:10
I would also ask you to direct you questions about Outrage's website to someone who can answer them.
Still, you can't tell me what is wrong with their position on Palestine which basically seems to be that the occupation must end and Palestine must be liberated, but that the torture, murder and persectution of gay Palestinians must also end. What do you find so objectionable about that?
Do Palestinian gays not deserve to be liberated too?
Qwerty
ftp is no homophobe
24.05.2005 13:38
tatchell just wants gay police and gay people running the country - i want no police and nobody running the country - not gays , not straights, - nobody.
equal rights? outrage wants equal rights to consume and thats it - same old crap
Outrage is outdated - anyone stepping into struggle attempting to disrupt and divide is a state asset, and tatchell and outrage are certainly that.
for queer liberation, not queer rights.
battyrider
Welcome to the real world
24.05.2005 16:32
Lot's of moans from you, battyrider, but no solutions.
Funnily, race and religion has the same power to divide, but I don't see anyone criticizing racial and religious minorities for being "devisive" when they raise issues of ill-treatment and persecution. When the black community challenges racism, do you shout "identity politics"? Of course not!
You're welcome to live in your anarchist never-neverland, but the fact of the matter is we do have government and we do have police. Should be be policed by straight white men exclusively? I don't think so. We need a diverse police force, women, black and Asian people, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Budhists..., the disabled, and yes, even gays. That's better than leaving control of the state in the hands of the straight white male hegemony - in the REAL world!
Qwerty
you people make me ill
25.05.2005 02:03
what is all this anti zionist crap most of you do not know what zionism means its crazy we the jews are entitled to a homeland where our desecndants hailed from why oh why does this website deicate its time to hating jews and israel
betar boy
Betar Bully wrote:
25.05.2005 08:18
How is your entitlement to that piece of land greater than that of the the people who were living there for the past five centuries and longer....... many of whome have been dispossessed in living memory?
Neither is it true that the state of Israel is free of homophobia.
Neither does the tempered tolerance of gays in any way excuse the state of Israels repeated breaches of international law and the Geneva Conventions.
ftp
FTP you really have no idea
25.05.2005 11:00
bring me that evidence id love to see it you really are misguided, the jews have been there 4000 years and you tell me these people the what do you call them oh yeah palestinians? have been there 500? mate they havent been there 90years never mind 500
bring me evidence of
1 palseinian history going back more then 100years
2 a currency
3 a plaesinian govenment
4 a palestinian king prime minister presidant in history?
5 documents stating to me that people going by this name have lived there for 500 years
bring me all that you fool and you can have gaza
betar boy
... a quicky ... for two ...
26.05.2005 09:57
... "
sorry? 500 years of palestinian history in gaza and judea samaria? hahahahaha
bring me that evidence id love to see it you really are misguided, the jews have been there 4000 years and you tell me these people the what do you call them oh yeah palestinians? have been there 500? mate they havent been there 90years never mind 500
bring me evidence of
1 palseinian history going back more then 100years
2 a currency
3 a plaesinian govenment
4 a palestinian king prime minister presidant in history?
5 documents stating to me that people going by this name have lived there for 500 years
bring me all that you fool and you can have gaza
..."
... Mostly because you are a prize twit - but also because I care to put truth above ego (indvidual or collective)...
The people who we now define as Palestinian have stated their desires for the future of their land and their people. Genetically, they can trace their ancestors back through millenia (as in thousands - 1000's) of dwelling in the region that the Romans gave the name of Palestine to (a latin 'barstardisation' of the indigenious name of the region). This much is scientifically provable, as such only a fool would contest it [your cue:)].
I see that your claims to proof have grown scince we last touched upon this subject - you now want some mysterious 'documents' that would (in your possession) settle the matter ... how quaint! Beyond the sublime nature of your request, your demands are irrational (and a little[sic] arrogant).
For a definitive examination of the history of the Palestinian people and their relationship to the land that they and their ancestors have lived in ... use the internet !!! ... you could start with the work of Dr Albert Glock, mysteriously murdered, an archeologist of some standing ...
... "Layers of earth closer to the surface which contained artifacts of later civilizations, including the Palestinian civilizations, were simply discarded, shoved out of the way because they were deemed to be unimportant." ...
But enough of you ...
qwerty ...
What do you make of the fundamentalist christian zionist supporters of the oppressors of all Palestinian aspirations, social relations and community action?
They don't seem to like homo's very much!
They ain't arabs either (have a look also what the Rabbis think!!!).
How come you cannot give us [your] opinions on the decision to hold an International Pride festival in israel - where Palestinian gays cannot attend? (You are allowed to have an opinion, rather than refer us 'upwards'!)
I would suggest the hassle and discrimintion that gay people in the entire middle east recieve is more or less equal ... to the hassle they recieve everywhere else ... why pick on Palestine? Don't you think they have enough on their plate - what with the danger of letting their children near any window (in the long hours of confinment forced upon them), lest their head be accidently[sic] sniper fired?
Why use one of the rare occasions Palestinian campaigners have to highlight their life or death struggles to get your message through? Bit parasitic innit?
See the type of response that it produces? Now there are zionists using this thread to claim that israel is more 'civilized' than their neighbors - thus giving the greenlight to notions of supremacy and domination through moral force. It is not too far beyond the imagination to suggest that this was a premeditated outcome of 'allowing' the normalisation of international affairs to proceed with this festival.
In short ... the aspirations and the abilities of the Palestinian people to organise and have been stymied at every opprtunity, their abilities to engage in debate - free from the harsh repressions of an occupying army that dictates even the movements of pregnant women on whimsical lines - have been mediated by the need to stay alive after saying things the zionist assassins don't like.
Palestine is not a normal place - I have followed up every link on the outrage site with regard to the ill treatment of homosexuals and, although in no way condoning these barbarous attitudes and acts, one is not left with the impression that there is a systematic organised abuse, so why hold the political aspirations of the Palestinian people responsible (one might even say hostage, given the sensationalist nature of the zionist sympathetic media)?
Perhaps amnesty are not interested in notions put forward by outrage etc as they are too busy trying to locate, contact and assist the thousands of young Palestinian men and women in israeli jails and at the mercy of known, documented and established sexual torture, humiliation and manipualtion merchants (I say merchants as it seems they have profitable exported their trade for the use of amerikan imperilistic aims in abu ghrab ect!).
The mixed reception outrage gets at demos such as these reflects the desire of the majority to accept that it is nobodies business what they do [consensually] sexually, but believe the fight against zionism and oppression is more important than any one issue group or notion.
Personally, I welcome any movement towards demolishing the divide between gay and straight and that it becomes the case that the words themselves become redundant in a world where people enjoy sex and act decently towards each other. I don't think that you can achieve that by pissing of contingents of groups dedicated to the cause of freedom for Palestinians and haranging insulting and accusing individuals for disagreeing with your tactics.
I expect to be called anti-semitic by those such as betar boy. I do not expect to be called homophobic by those such as yourself (in defense of ftp!).
jackslucid
e-mail:
jackslucid@hotmail.com
World Pride
26.05.2005 11:07
---------
Sexuality may be regarded as "a private matter" by many, but tell that to those being rounded up and persecuted because of their sexuality.
I'm sorry, but unlike Jackslucid, I cannot "prioritize" the reasons people are persecuted, tortured and killed. If Palestinian gays are being persecuted, tortured and killed because of their sexuality, that is as much a reason to object as to any other cause of such treatment. It also ceases to be "a private matter". I would ask you that if Palestinian groups are so pre-occupied with liberation, then how do they find the time, energy and resourses to persecute gays? The argument of "priorities" cuts both ways.
I also find it quite interesting (as evidenced above) that some think that Outrage gives comfort to Zionists, while Zionists think that they're anti-Israel. Personally I applaud any effort to highlight injustice and persecution, by whoever, wherever and for whatever reason. I'm so sick of this GW Bush-style thinking of "you're either with us or against us". The bottom line is that if the Palestinian leadership clean up their act and become clear human rights defenders, they will earn much more respect and support worldwide and get much further, quicker. Expecting folk to brush their failings under the rug helps no one, least of all Palestine.
Qwerty
... why ... ???
26.05.2005 12:26
It is not a matter of which issue is the most deserving, it is a matter of tactics - ie doing that which is most effective at releaving oppression.
Stop putting words into my mouth.
jackslucid
e-mail:
jackslucid@hotmail.com
About World Pride
26.05.2005 13:34
See
azerty
Priorities
27.05.2005 08:16
"Perhaps amnesty are not interested in notions put forward by outrage etc as they are too busy trying to locate, contact and assist the thousands of young Palestinian men and women in israeli jails and at the mercy of known, documented and established sexual torture, humiliation and manipualtion merchants (I say merchants as it seems they have profitable exported their trade for the use of amerikan imperilistic aims in abu ghrab ect!)."
Now, if Party A is too busy with Issue B to be bothered about Issue C that clearly means that one Issue takes "priority" over the other.
While I'm at it, the whole point of asking for Amnesty's involvement in any region, I would imagine, is to get instances of torture and persecution 'documented and established' so as to break down the walls of official silence and secrecy. So, to suggest that one issue is less of a (yes!) "priority" because it has less documentation does not, logically, suggest that it is less of an issue, only that it is paid less attention and is thus less of a "priority". An argument could be made that the lack of documented evidence (in the face of overwelming anecdotal evidence) makes it very worthy of more thorough investigation, not less.
Qwerty
Aah QWERTY
27.05.2005 16:23
But that isn't surprising when Tatchell is so tied up with AWL which openly describes itself as zionist.
That may well explain why he has adopted zionist hasbarah and made it a focus of OUTRAGE! activities, whilst remaining shtum on the whole question of International Pride taking place in Israel.
Neither is he the least bit interested in the fact that a well known homophobe was awarded the Israel prize.
Perhaps he should read OUTRAGE!'s stated aims - which no doubt he wrote - and try and stick to them. His willingness to make a campaign out of zionist Hasbarah does not mean that he can dictate the behaviour of other activists - and spamming Afif Safieh's inbox will do nothing to change the situation.
Some of us are fighting for something completely different to the AWLs dream of 2 unequal states ....... we envisage a place where everybody has the freedom to be who they are, and where equality is enshrined in the constitution.
And we don't think the puppet PA is going to save anybody - because they are not some independent state - they don't run Palestine - that job continues to be done by the Israelis, as it has been done for the last 38 years......... in the case of the Occupied Territories.
So I'll take your homophobic jibe and store it with the anti-semitic ones in the bollocks bin.
And suggest that OUTRAGE! gets off its hasbarah spreading platform and goes to Palestine and finds out the reality of the situation for itself.
ftp
oh and btw
27.05.2005 16:33
Now, any ideas where 11 year olds in this country get their homphobia from?
Its been troubling me for a while.......
ftp