TRANSCRIPT 2 – LEE GORDON (April 12, 2004)
The following material was recorded (by telephone) at 10.00 pm (local Dutch time) Monday, April 12, 2004 in Amsterdam between journalists Lee Gordon (LG) outside of Fallujah and Mindy Ran (MR) in Amsterdam. [Reception was patchy with heavy interference and background noise from helicopters and planes.]
MR Lee, are you there?
LG Yeah, I’m here. Go on…
MR Tell me what happened when you went back into Fallujah?
LG I went back into Fallujah with my colleague and guide, an Arabic chap called […], we went in back in via the back roads and saw the airborne forces close off the last of the back roads. They were turning back cars that were trying to evacuate the city. This was about 9 or 10 o’clock this morning. Soon afterwards shelling began around the area, the south, southwest side of the city, which the back roads lead into – which as far as I am aware from speaking to Iraqi mujahideen was a signal for an attack by airborne troops on that area. Um… I think the attack was repulsed at least when I went back through that area later in the day there was no sign of US troops.
Round about mid-day, peace talks which had been going on for about a day, broke down according to the sheik who has been coordinating the Iraqi side of the talks. The US were prepared to um, consider withdrawing their forces from the areas they occupy in the city if they could strike some kind of deal. They asked for 24 hours further for talks. The Iraqi […] gave them until 4 o’clock this afternoon to withdraw. They didn’t withdraw and around about 4 o’clock mortars and what sounded like tank shells began to echo across the city.
The hospitals, two key field hospitals, Talib (?) and [ … ] hospitals, which are both sort of converted primary health care centers or doctor’s surgeries, have been calling for medical aid to come in. Now, there was some aid that was delivered from Jordan, it was official aid from the Jordanian government. And the Iraqi’s has refused to use that, it has been stored, but they won’t use it. Because it came from an Arab government they have a real beef with; the Syrian, Jordanian, Saudi and Kuwaiti governments.
Can you hear me?
MR Yes, but what is the noise in the background?
LG That’s, I think it’s probably a helicopter high up actually, I guess it’s scouting someplace over what would be the east side of Fallujah.
MR Where are you now?
LG I am just outside the city, um a few miles away.
MR I can hear you now…
LG The hospitals, the two main field hospitals, continue to come under fire from snipers, they are without ambulances. One of the hospitals, the Talib (?) hospital, is now completely surrounded by snipers and we don’t know how many patients are trapped inside. It could be a dozen, it could be two dozen patients inside, no one knows for sure. Umm, there’s no means of getting them out …
We have made arrangements to pick up an ambulance in Baghdad, tomorrow. So we will have to travel back to Baghdad at some point, pick up an ambulance and drive it back here, which we will have to use for evacuating patients from hospital.
MR You were going were going to be taking medical supplies back in, were you able to do that? Lee, you are breaking up ….
LG [ … interference …] Can you hear me now?
MR Yeah …
LG Yeah, we took in some surgical kits and medicines went in this morning, umm … it’s a …. It’s just getting more and more difficult to get stuff in actually, as the you know, the strangle-hold on the city tightens. The back roads which feed mostly into the southwest side of the city have been cut and cut and cut as the airborne troops have moved closer to the city edge. We are going to try again tomorrow, as I said, and pick-up this vehicle and try and load it up with equipment and get it back in, but uh … it’s a bit of a fingers crossed mission, I am afraid. …
MR …
The news here is changing slightly, they are saying there is “sporadic fighting”, how do you respond to the idea of sporadic fighting?
LG (laughs …) The heaviest fighting took place on Sunday night, the doctors reported bombing and shelling of the city and I think that was part of a, uh, a main thrust into the town by the US troops. Now, according to the sheik and the military commanders from the Iraqi side they repulsed mortars, […], RPG’s and missiles. Today was relatively quiet in Fallujah, to be honest, there was supposed to be a cease-fire. One heard sort of occasional shelling, mortar explosions, um occasional, very occasional AK, every now and again some machine gun fire. But, it certainly wasn’t the intensity that we have heard over the last few days.
MR And what about the Iraqi Governing Council that is supposed to be negotiating?
LG (laughs) well, the negotiations have been mostly taking place in Fallujah, there have been some talks taking place in Baghdad, I know but … the key negotiations have certainly been the ones taking place in Fallujah and they have been quite heated. I mean, there was uh, they just broke out in shouting and I think there was some pushing and shoving in […] negotiations, the ones that broke down. At least according to […] Iraqi’s that took part. Fallujah has always […] independent, the Sunni Triangle […] independent of the governing council.
MR Lee, you are breaking up again …
LG … I have seen no sign of any member of the Iraqi governing council inside of Fallujah. The key negotiations are taking place between the US military commanders and the Iraqi military commanders and sheiks, and have not involved anyone from the Iraqi governing council, as far as I know.
MR How many different sheiks and rebel commanders are they dealing with? How many different groups are there?
LG […] I don’t know the answer, I know there are about two or three sheiks, but there are two or three sheiks that I know of, but the mujahideen is split into several, half dozen different groups, each of them has their own commander. I mean, they are supposed to be, supposed to report to one or two sheiks, but quite how that works, I don’t know.
[Note from MR – It was Lee’s intention to report again the following day, Tuesday, but did not. Since then, phones and/or networks have been off and there has been no way to contact him. Efforts are being made to re-establish contact.]
The following material was recorded (by telephone) at 10.00 pm (local Dutch time) Monday, April 12, 2004 in Amsterdam between journalists Lee Gordon (LG) outside of Fallujah and Mindy Ran (MR) in Amsterdam. [Reception was patchy with heavy interference and background noise from helicopters and planes.]
MR Lee, are you there?
LG Yeah, I’m here. Go on…
MR Tell me what happened when you went back into Fallujah?
LG I went back into Fallujah with my colleague and guide, an Arabic chap called […], we went in back in via the back roads and saw the airborne forces close off the last of the back roads. They were turning back cars that were trying to evacuate the city. This was about 9 or 10 o’clock this morning. Soon afterwards shelling began around the area, the south, southwest side of the city, which the back roads lead into – which as far as I am aware from speaking to Iraqi mujahideen was a signal for an attack by airborne troops on that area. Um… I think the attack was repulsed at least when I went back through that area later in the day there was no sign of US troops.
Round about mid-day, peace talks which had been going on for about a day, broke down according to the sheik who has been coordinating the Iraqi side of the talks. The US were prepared to um, consider withdrawing their forces from the areas they occupy in the city if they could strike some kind of deal. They asked for 24 hours further for talks. The Iraqi […] gave them until 4 o’clock this afternoon to withdraw. They didn’t withdraw and around about 4 o’clock mortars and what sounded like tank shells began to echo across the city.
The hospitals, two key field hospitals, Talib (?) and [ … ] hospitals, which are both sort of converted primary health care centers or doctor’s surgeries, have been calling for medical aid to come in. Now, there was some aid that was delivered from Jordan, it was official aid from the Jordanian government. And the Iraqi’s has refused to use that, it has been stored, but they won’t use it. Because it came from an Arab government they have a real beef with; the Syrian, Jordanian, Saudi and Kuwaiti governments.
Can you hear me?
MR Yes, but what is the noise in the background?
LG That’s, I think it’s probably a helicopter high up actually, I guess it’s scouting someplace over what would be the east side of Fallujah.
MR Where are you now?
LG I am just outside the city, um a few miles away.
MR I can hear you now…
LG The hospitals, the two main field hospitals, continue to come under fire from snipers, they are without ambulances. One of the hospitals, the Talib (?) hospital, is now completely surrounded by snipers and we don’t know how many patients are trapped inside. It could be a dozen, it could be two dozen patients inside, no one knows for sure. Umm, there’s no means of getting them out …
We have made arrangements to pick up an ambulance in Baghdad, tomorrow. So we will have to travel back to Baghdad at some point, pick up an ambulance and drive it back here, which we will have to use for evacuating patients from hospital.
MR You were going were going to be taking medical supplies back in, were you able to do that? Lee, you are breaking up ….
LG [ … interference …] Can you hear me now?
MR Yeah …
LG Yeah, we took in some surgical kits and medicines went in this morning, umm … it’s a …. It’s just getting more and more difficult to get stuff in actually, as the you know, the strangle-hold on the city tightens. The back roads which feed mostly into the southwest side of the city have been cut and cut and cut as the airborne troops have moved closer to the city edge. We are going to try again tomorrow, as I said, and pick-up this vehicle and try and load it up with equipment and get it back in, but uh … it’s a bit of a fingers crossed mission, I am afraid. …
MR …
The news here is changing slightly, they are saying there is “sporadic fighting”, how do you respond to the idea of sporadic fighting?
LG (laughs …) The heaviest fighting took place on Sunday night, the doctors reported bombing and shelling of the city and I think that was part of a, uh, a main thrust into the town by the US troops. Now, according to the sheik and the military commanders from the Iraqi side they repulsed mortars, […], RPG’s and missiles. Today was relatively quiet in Fallujah, to be honest, there was supposed to be a cease-fire. One heard sort of occasional shelling, mortar explosions, um occasional, very occasional AK, every now and again some machine gun fire. But, it certainly wasn’t the intensity that we have heard over the last few days.
MR And what about the Iraqi Governing Council that is supposed to be negotiating?
LG (laughs) well, the negotiations have been mostly taking place in Fallujah, there have been some talks taking place in Baghdad, I know but … the key negotiations have certainly been the ones taking place in Fallujah and they have been quite heated. I mean, there was uh, they just broke out in shouting and I think there was some pushing and shoving in […] negotiations, the ones that broke down. At least according to […] Iraqi’s that took part. Fallujah has always […] independent, the Sunni Triangle […] independent of the governing council.
MR Lee, you are breaking up again …
LG … I have seen no sign of any member of the Iraqi governing council inside of Fallujah. The key negotiations are taking place between the US military commanders and the Iraqi military commanders and sheiks, and have not involved anyone from the Iraqi governing council, as far as I know.
MR How many different sheiks and rebel commanders are they dealing with? How many different groups are there?
LG […] I don’t know the answer, I know there are about two or three sheiks, but there are two or three sheiks that I know of, but the mujahideen is split into several, half dozen different groups, each of them has their own commander. I mean, they are supposed to be, supposed to report to one or two sheiks, but quite how that works, I don’t know.
[Note from MR – It was Lee’s intention to report again the following day, Tuesday, but did not. Since then, phones and/or networks have been off and there has been no way to contact him. Efforts are being made to re-establish contact.]
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