I also like the now famous 2001 manifesto pledge:

"We will not introduce 'top-up' fees and have legislated to prevent them."

Anything on military backing for the US? Foundation hospitals? I'm sure we can come up with some more lies.

What tactical voting or campaign will improve the housing situation in Liverpool?

Pingu wrote:

"What tactical voting or campaign will improve the housing situation in Liverpool?"

For me housing is the no.1 working class issue in Liverpool, "tactical voting?" Well vote for a party that has a working class housing policy. At least we should vote against Liberal-Democrat, Liberal and Labour parties because they're directly responsible for the poor housing here in Liverpool. GUILTY OF BETRAYING THE BOOT ESTATE IN NORRIS GREEN! If we don't get out and vote we're just letting the bastards get away with oppressing us. When the physically disabled can get out and stop the traffic, blockade buses to fight for equal transport access and they're physically restricted what feeble excuses do we able bodied young tenants have then?

The longer we let things slip as tenants the harder the battles we'll have to fight in the future to get back to where were were even in the 1980's rights wise. If we didn't oppose the transfer of the High Rise tower block to Liverpool HAT in 1992 then it made it harder to oppose housing management CCT (Privatisation) in 1994/95 and then we made it harder to oppose Stock Transfer three years in 1998 and later in 2002, if we didn't oppose Stock Transfer we made even harder to fight against neighbourhood and community demolitions across Liverpool in 2003/2004. It's defeat on defeat. Never mind defending our 'tenancy' rights we're voting them away like just Turkeys Voting For Christmas!

A community that defends itself 'collectively' against it's oppression moves forward and it is the duty of everyone in their community to do their bit, DOING NOTHING IS NOT AN EXCUSE!!! Time and time again it was the 'pensioners' who put our 'VOTE NO TO STOCK TRANSFER' posters in their windows, that was them "DOING SOMETHING..."

Defend Council Housing:
 http://www.defendcouncilhousing.org.uk

Thanks for the site - good reading.

Take it the voting recommendation in Liverpool is for Greens, SA and old Liberal Party then, but only if you have an option on the ballot paper?

Not the old Liberals either - just spotted them in there...

Pingu wrote:

"Take it the voting recommendation in Liverpool is for Greens, SA and old Liberal Party then, but only if you have an option on the ballot paper?"

The anarchists amongst the readership don't vote for any party, because parties are hierachical and have leaders and the apathetics don't vote because they're probably not interested in what hierarchies are anyway. ((-:

But do your research on the web in regard to which party you think might fight for our housing rights, repairs and improvements and remember your own experience of who's done what and where, here's a summary of betrayal:

Labour privatised all the High Rise flats by encouraging tenants to transfer to Liverpool HAT in 1992...

Labour's housing chairman Peter Coventry promoted Stock Transfer in 1998 as it was Labour who prepared the green card questionnaires that were sent out to all tenants pre-1998 local elections, I sent about 40 extras ones in, it asked if tenants supported housing companies taking over our homes as an option. Peter Coventry was also involved in the setting up of South Liverpool Housing SLH in Speke and Garston and sits on its board, I've got the video's and the leaflets, all the evidence, Marie Eagle Garston's Labour MP wrote personally to all tenants asking they personally to vote for Stock Transfer in late 1998. Liberal party (ie Steve Radford's bandwagon) betrayed the tenants on the Pinehurst estate in 1998, and that was the opinion of one of his councillors who was a member of the Liberal Party and a council tenant.

The Liberal-Democrats are on record as not wanting to be landlords in five years time, ie they are going to transfer all their housing to private housing companies and notorious RSLs AKA Housing Associations, they announced that just after got the majority in the council in 1998 not before. There is only one estate in the whole of Liverpool who've voted against Stock Transfer, it's been kept very quiet.

I've campaigned on housing issues with the SLP, Pinehurst 1998 - Speke/Garston 1998, against threatened demolition of the Boot estate and for an Estate Action in 1999, for a No Vote for Stock Transfer to Cobalt in North East Liverpool and Berrybridge in Cantril Farm, Dovecot and West Derby, take a look around Croxteth and Sparrowhall you'll still see our "Vote No To Stock Transfer" posters from our campaign in 2002, still stuck on electricity sub-station doors and other places. Additionally as a community and tenant activist I blocked the underhanded move (backed up by LHT) led by house owners in Norris Green to request our homes be given to a Housing Action Trust that was in 1992.

To be honest the tenant movement in Liverpool has been destroyed in the 1990's as it has also been in Glasgow, that's really sad after the 1970's rent strikes changed things majorily in favour of tenants here in Liverpool and also in Kirkby.

Greens? Well I don't recall hearing them leading any campaigns against Stock Transfer anywhere, but the SLP were involved in the campaign against the Camden ALMO I know people who were fully committed to it. Also involved in the winning campaign against mass Stock Transfer in Birmingham and Sandwell too.

The SLP, have not got enough members and resources to put up candidates for council right across Liverpool, so we've got to concentrate our human and material resources on targeted wards, plus we actually need to have the best possible working class candidates in future. It makes good sense to put a good candidate in the area that voted against Stock Transfer in 2002.

As for Defend Council Housing, they've successfully contained and restricted tenant activists from taking effective direct action, they've repeatly blocked calls for a national day of protest or demonstration against housing privatisation, they prefer pleading to Labour MPs to be nice to tenants. Only action changes things, when we finally get off our 'collective' arses and help to organise it and then support it.

Spoil your ballot paper!

I forgot to mention the 'spoil your ballot paper' option,
ie if there isn't a party that is suitable to represent
you then cross all the boxes (so that one can't be slyly
crossed somehow) and write on the rest of the paper
"NONE OF THE ABOVE CANDIDATES" or "RE-OPEN NOMINATIONS",
whatever you feel because at the count a spoilt ballot
paper is shown to all the candidates on the count tables,
so that they can agree that it is in fact a spoilt ballot
paper and not a vote their party. It often wipes a smug
grin off their faces particularly when it's a close call
between useless candidate and another (-:

For example I wrote on my ballot paper in the Gillmoss
ward 2003 and my mum did the same "COBALT COLLABORATORS"
by names of the Liberal-Democratic and Labour candidate
names and put a line through all the candidates names,
also crossed out the number of the ballot paper with a
black marker pen so it couldn't be traced. While my vote
was wasted I didn't waste my time and made my views known
to the candidates! Better than sitting at home and opting
out...

At this moment in time there's a proposal to impose an
all 'postal voting' for the local and Euro elections on
June 10th in the North West, North East and in Yorkshire
& Humberside regions, so how we'll know that our postal
votes have arrived is hard to say, and how we know who
reads them before they're counted is also unknown.

I don't trust postal votes, because they've been used
for Stock Transfer and we the opposition know that the
council and it's allies who wanted a 'YES' vote had a
running total and were even celebrating a 'YES' vote days
before the closing day of the ballot. Also they knew who
voted and which way, which isn't the kind of thing you
want a private landlord knowing about.

I've sent my complaint twice to the Electoral Commission
regarding the imposition of total postal ballots and
still not received a reply. So much for the propaganda
of E-Government, it's unaccountable, and we're just so
much easier now to ignore and keep at longer arms length!

Kai is correct in what he writes about housing in Liverpool and should be commended for his community activism. However, his proposed solution to the lack of working class representation is fatally flawed. The Socialist Labour Party, despite much early promise, has spectacularly failed to grasp the imagination of the working class here. In Scotland it is consistently beaten by the Scottish Socialist Party and IWCA when it comes to working class mobilisation and electoral support. In England it is barely existent. Scargill treats the party as he did the NUM: as his own personal fan club. Most of the remaining membership appear to be the remnants of British Stalinism - a number of people on the SLP executive are even proud members of the Stalin Society! Let's not forget the likes of ex-SLP president Roy Bull and his infamous disgust for homosexuals.

The IWCA will be organising in Liverpool soon, the results we have achieved all over the country speak for themselves. We hope to succede where others have failed so miserably, and we will put the working class majority back on the political map whilst others just bullshit them.

Are you speaking as an IWCA member yourself or just using the 'iwca' title to attack the SLP here? Why are so many on Indymedia not using a real names?

'iwca' dude wrote on 19/2/04:

You say:
"However, his proposed solution to the lack of working class representation is fatally flawed. The Socialist Labour Party, despite much early promise, has spectacularly failed to grasp the imagination of the working class here."

There is more than enough council seats in Liverpool, Knowsley and Sefton for both the IWCA and the SLP to contest for the working class vote.

The SLP still has plenty of potential. I don't think we want to grasp imaginations so much as we want to gain support, recall the StWC meeting end of 2002 Arthur had a tremendous support from a packed out meeting he was the most passionate and inspiring speaker and Bruce Kent was actually the top speaker. Also before last Christmas we had a public meeting in Ellesmere Port in a working class community and Arthur was well supported by the audience, the only people who attack Arthur Scargill are our class enemy and those who collaborate with capitalism and betray working class people.

I'm also fully aware of the problems of the SLP here in Liverpool and wider Merseyside which have held us back, I've been trying to deal with them. I literally had to argue with the party on Merseyside to get any support for fighting Stock Transfer back in 1998 and in fact in 1999 as well, until recently the party here was infested with a majority of 'left wing middle class' and 'opportunists', no Stalinists as far as I know. They weren't interested in the working class more like riding on our backs to an easy council seat, that is a fact and I've worked very hard to keep the party alive in Liverpool and on Merseyside when those who sucked the party dry of resources and morale sunk back into the shadows or moved on. It has the potential to be a working class led party in Liverpool and Merseyside now the opportunists have moved on.

I don't know what kind of people the IWCA is going to attract locally, but you may well pick up the flotsum and jetsum that I'm personally glad see the back of. Mark Holt for example, was a poor representative of the SLP as a well heeled rich businessman and anti-working class capitalist. However as a party we have an open door to all who adhere to our party's rules and manifesto and he bent them consistently and Arthur tolerated his behaviour, so much for Arthur being the heavy handed leader.

Being in an organisation requires all members to invest their time, energy, loyality (not uncritically) and commitment to it, only when we've built up a organisation can we share out its resources fairly amongst its members.

You say:
"In Scotland it is consistently beaten by the Scottish Socialist Party and IWCA when it comes to working class mobilisation and electoral support."

There are issues on the ground that I can't comment on regarding SLP in Scotland, though I have spoken to our leaders up there, one issue which differentiates our party is our clear opposition to the capitalist EU superstate and our commitment to withdrawal from the EU. The SLP is the only national working class party operating in England, Scotland and Wales it stands in all elections without fail, as we will here on Merseyside and in Liverpool in the forthcoming local elections and we've already selected our 10 European Union candidates, on the "VOTE US IN TO GET US OUT" campaign basis.

You say:
"In England it is barely existent."

I can't agree with that, we've stood candidates in local elections consistently also been actively involved in opposing housing privatisation, however I've had nothing but headaches and backstabbing locally from the 'middle class left' and allied scallywag elements in the party and that goes as far as Merseyside members in the party voting against my housing motion I put to the last national congress which had overwhelming majority hands vote in support, that includes the new press officer of the R.U.C electoral bandwagon. That is mostly behind us now.

Our party has been an active component of the anti-war movement, including the Stop The War Coalition, nationally and locally. I marched on two of the national protests in 2001 and 2002. Incidently Arthur is a steering committee member and was excluded from speaking on the platform, the only component of the national StWC to be consistently excluded, even Charles Kennedy 'Lib-Dem' was allowed to address the marchers in the February 2003 protest.

Fact is a our party hasn't gained a councillor to my knowledge, the IWCA has had one in Oxford since 2002, SP has five in Coventry, the SA has one in Preston and the SSP have 6 Scottish Parliament members. I seriously believe we need a breakthrough and we have worked very hard over the past eight years in all parts of the country, including the West Midlands, Leicester and up in the North East in Sedgefield, in the North West in Bolton, Manchester and elsewhere.

You say:
"Scargill treats the party as he did the NUM: as his own personal fan club."

According to who? The CPGB? The Weakly Werker? Simon Harvey? Or just the plain old anti-working class political elements? By the way the Weakly Werker also regularly gives the IWCA a hard time as well, go take a look...

In fact Arthur attacked the cult of personality at our last congress and even those who might see him as someone to worship. The fact that those who claim to have the best interest of the working class in mind consistently attack Arthur and ultimately it is an attack on the working class itself, where is there another example post war of a working class leader with principle making a stand against destruction of working class jobs and communities and led his class in opposition to the capitalist state, Margaret Thatcher in particular. Good working class leaders will be attacked, oh and they must be attacked by capitalism, it's agents and the media brainwashed for they represent the chance that the working class won't get led up a blind alley for another century.

You say:
"Most of the remaining membership appear to be the remnants of British Stalinism - a number of people on the SLP executive are even proud members of the Stalin Society!"

There are indeed SLP members (a few, a minority in fact, mostly in London in fact!) who are also members of the Stalin society and there are still some Trotskyites in the party, including a local one who is closer to the Socialist Party (formerly Militant Tendency) than the SLP who calls me a Stalinist everytime he sees me, which I find amusing, because I'm neither a Trot nor a Stalinist. The truth is, the overwhelming majority of members are not Stalin society members or could even be called Stalinists most happen to be ordinary decent working class, generally socialists, many are like me good community activists, many are trade unionists, many are peace campaigners, we've a sizeable contingent of NUM, UCATT and UNISON members as well. We've also got some great housing activists who have fought to defend their communities against housing privatisation and destruction.

You say:
"Let's not forget the likes of ex-SLP president Roy Bull and his infamous disgust for homosexuals."

And Arthur told him to close down the EPSR, and Roy Bull was challenged on his homophobic views, he ceased being a member of the party soon after he was elected. In fact I challenged the person who stood up and shouted "you've just elected a homophobe" at the end of our 1998 congress. I said why didn't you raise it earlier before people voted for him, it was an open floor.

I've challenged homophobic views and attitudes from party members mostly here on Merseyside, mostly from people who are close to the SP who I don't want to be associated with. Arthur prides himself that the party has not expelled anyone from the party, most simply break rules which make them no longer elligible for membership. Mark Holt is one who wanted to be a member of the R.U.C and simultaneously the SLP.

But a NW NUM member says rightly, in a mass working class party you will attract all elements of society, you can't expect them to instantly become anti-racist, anti-homophobic or anti-sexist, they bring with them their prejudices and their beliefs from being in a capitalist society. It is for an organisation to deal with and make it clear that it challenges oppressive views and opinions. I absolutely do not associate myself with people who don't uphold our party's rules and constitution, in fact I cold shoulder them. Our party clearly opposes homophobia in our manifesto, that is a fact. It's for good members to discourage and oppose oppressive language and behaviour and we do.

In all the things you mention they were part and parcel of setting up a new party, that has been out there in society doing the campaign work. We still have an open membership to all who adhere to the rules, constitution and manifesto. Many rotten members have been challenged, but continue to break party rules and have left the party, some have actively blocked the growth of this working class party, that has been the case here on Merseyside. I associate myself closely to decent and principled working class members and they are most definitely in the majority and that's not just here in Liverpool and Merseyside but right across the country.

Arthur is criticised for being too soft on the anti-party, destructive elements within the party and outside the party he is portrayed as being to quote the Weakly Worker "a Labour dictator". I've got a lot of respect for Arthur, he's a good party leader, he has his faults as we all do. But his clear leadership line on opposing electoral pacts, party alliances, a federal party -allowing parties within a party, as the Militant Tendency would have preferred- have been proven correct. The Socialist Alliance became the plaything of the SWP, the Socialist Party (formerly Militant Tendency) left when it couldn't change the SA into a federal party, the founding organisation behind the IWCA, Red Faction also left the SA as well.

You say:
"The IWCA will be organising in Liverpool soon, the results we have achieved all over the country speak for themselves. We hope to succede where others have failed so miserably, and we will put the working class majority back on the political map whilst others just bullshit them."

Liverpool's working class have faced a decade of defeat, up to 80% of them don't vote for any party here in Liverpool and certainly new ways of organising have got to be found. I've found that time and time again talking to people on the doorstep. I'm from a community activist background one of the very few in the SLP here in Liverpool or on Merseyside.

Both the SLP and the IWCA stand aside from the Socialist Alliance and also from the new bandwagon R.U.C. Also the SLP is a working class party, it also has an internationalist outlook, but it must also build our base within working class communities. Both the IWCA and the SLP were set up around 1995/96 for the same reason, lack of working class representation from the New Labour party, that is a fact.

I've had some correspondence with IWCA councillor, Stuart Craft in Oxford who is in fact an outstanding working class representative. I'm far from being hostile towards the IWCA, though it will face the same uphill struggle that we've had on Merseyside, IWCA won't get fair access to the media, including the BBC or the Echo. In fact the IWCA get misreported in Oxford already. We got a lot of problems during the 2001 Parliamentary elections, in one example the BBC reported falsely that we supported a European Army, we complained they took it off Teletext and a day or two later it went back up again. I've read stuff on Indymedia-Liverpool that perpetuates the same bullshit lies against Arthur Scargill and the NUM by a so called ex-communist, who then goes on to propagate further anti-socialist, anti-working class propaganda.

IWCA activists may well face the police harrassment I've experienced since 1998, opposing cuts in single parent and disabled people's benefits, defending publicly owned railways and of course fighting against housing privatisation and the demolition of my community on the Boot Estate in Norris Green.

The SLP in Liverpool and on Merseyside has been going through a quiet period in the past two and half years, but there has been a lot of solid work going on in the background, some of which is up on our noticeboard site.

I moved back to Liverpool in 2001 after 18 months away and I clearly saw a lot that was wrong with the SLP in Liverpool, Merseyside, sickening opportunism, huge egotism accompanied by attacks on our party regionally and nationally. Liverpool has a history politically of 'opting out' even the Militant Tendency split and went against national party leadership as far back as 1991, even the SP split from the national party to form Merseyside SP at one time.

The good news is that the SA took many of the ego's of Liverpool's middle class left and scallywags, now the R.U.C is attracting to it many of those people from the SA. I attended the R.U.C meeting in Liverpool not because I considered joining it but to see who was attending it. The R.U.C won't attract working class support, it will fizzle out post June 10th.

The SLP will be out leafleting, campaigning and organising in our communities in the next few weeks and months here in Liverpool and on Merseyside, we've got activists and it's a case of pulling ourselves ever closer together and taking our party's policies to the working class now we are not restricted by party blockers. I'm really enthusiastic about doing the necessary work here in Liverpool and I expect we'll face attacks and be discredited by the establishment, the media and others wanting to retain their nice slice of capitalism for their fist shaking and keeping the working class contained!


Incidently it's sad that you decided to attack the SLP and perpetuate lies and distortions here in a public forum, it is no way to build something positive for the IWCA, especially when I've actually had nothing but a positive attitude towards the IWCA personally and politically.

Kai Andersen, defending the SLP past, present and future

just a couple of points.
firstly i don't give a dam about lefties arguing amongst themselves - its boring - it has no irrelavance to what is happening to working clas people in this country or in this city. The left does have loyal comitted activisis who do some good local work and are genuine in their fight for change - but i believe they should cease their stupid party loylaty and look at building working class resistance.
Secondly the bland posting by the IWCA person - really is bullshit, if you want a debate have one , but not just using working class activists time and energy to slip your own party line in.
Thirdy when will this dawn come, when the IWCA have its great impact in liverpool? Are they going to bus in cockneys to recruit people? The IWCA or its previous organisation RA have never had any impact in Liverpool, they have never done anything in Liverpool. And the IWCA sounds like another boring lefty group, like all the others who have promised heaven on earth to the the people beaten to fuck by 18 years of thaterism. Liverpool has some solid hard working revoluntianries, non-alighned to anywhere expect to working class people. It does also have some who are alighned who put thier money where their mouth is like Kai. If the IWCA want to contribute to the debate, then why don't they get their Liverpool activists to contribute?
Fuck politcal parties, forward with genuine revolution.

I think it is sad that Karl once again blames Liberals for actions of a Lib Dem Council
How can a minority party of 3 be responsible for the policy of an administration of 60 plus Lib Dems on Liverpool who have an overwhelming majority

I am proud my small team have consistently raised the need for a public inquiry concerning Norris Green Boot estate

As for the Pinehusrt Estatae the residents they are in far better position as to the tennants of the two other boot estates , Norris Green or Danevill -Richard kelly estate
So much for me betraying them.

I am raiseing the needs of both these estates at almost every housing committee
But I doubt cheap trots would ever want to understand or support the electoral system let alone deal with each and every other party with honest critisism

Karl ask yourself why your own neighbours have rejected you at each and every election
Maybe they are not impressed by hysterical trot rantings either