It’s rather ironic that at a time when membership of the SWP is at an all time low and with little interest in their politics, they have deftly manouevered o basically control the biggest social movement for many decade(STWC) and now it seems the embryonic SF momentum which has masses of potential is also sewn up.However, imo, it is partly the fault of the A/C, Libertarian movement (such as it is) in this country, who have feigned studied indifference to the ESF, (yet mobilised extremely successful for Prague), and the STWC.
Read on….
Weekly Worker 498 Thursday October 2 2003
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/498/07-london.html
The ESF comes to London - or does it?
The most interesting development at the assembly centred on the venue for next year’s event. Although no final decision has yet been made, London will undoubtedly be selected at a special meeting that will take place on November 10 in Paris, two days before the beginning of the ESF.
London mayor Ken Livingstone and his Greater London Authority support the move - so do Unison, the National Union of Journalists and the Communication Workers Union. This is an excellent development and should be welcomed by all progressive forces in Britain. Now we need to fight to make sure that the whole process will be transparent, open and democratic. So far, these elements have been missing from the organisation of the ‘London bid’.
For the last three months or so, the SWP - aka Globalise Resistance - has been furiously negotiating to bring trade unions and NGOs on board. The Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament has been a co-sponsor. Unfortunately, the SWP comrades have so far chosen not to involve the official ESF mobilisation committee - formed last year for Florence and now encouraging and organising participation in Paris. In fact, they have kept these negotiations secret even from the elected English ESF facilitating committee, which has been meeting regularly over the last few months.
Four weeks ago rumours of the London bid started to circulate. Once SWP comrades admitted that these negotiations were going on, CPGB members argued that they should be made public - at least before the assembly meeting in Paris that would decide on the venue. All organisations and individuals interested in building ESF 2004 in London should have an opportunity to add their input.
Unfortunately, this approach was rejected. No details of the bid were made public. No open meeting took place. The ESF meeting on August 31 in London was supposed to discuss it, but the item fell off the agenda. An outcome that could of course have been avoided, had comrades prioritised it. As it turned out, representatives of the European workers’ movement, who were present in Paris, heard about the bid before most British-based organisations.
Extraordinarily, comrades from the SWP and CND even tried to exclude other representatives from Britain from a workshop set up to discuss the venue during the assembly. A workshop which had become necessary because Greece and Austria were also interested in hosting next year’s event. The idea was that a small group would meet together and come back with a solution.
Although the workshop was mentioned from the platform of the assembly, comrade Jonathan Neale from the SWP told us we could not attend. It was “closed” and “only for those organisations who put together the bid”. Chris Nineham from GR/SWP, Claire Williams (GR/SWP and Unison), Liz Hutchins (CND) and a representative from the Greater London Authority were the only ones who were supposed to discuss this important question with other European representatives. Liz Hutchins also told us that she did not think that other people from Britain should take part, but said she would “take your concerns about a lack of democracy on board”.
However, both the Greek and the Austrian delegation invited CPGB comrades to come along - and so we did. This was a very interesting meeting, because it contained the only real and honest discussion of the whole weekend. Even Sophie Zafari and Pierre Khalfa, the two leading French comrades, were heard disagreeing with each other.
Comrade Pierre started off proceedings by suggesting that the ESF should become a two-yearly event or at least stretch out to intervals of 18 months. He said that there was a certain “tiredness” amongst comrades: “As soon as we have finished working for the ESF, we have to start mobilising for the World Social Forum, then the Mediterranean Social Forum and then the next ESF. It’s too much.” The ESF should also be “less gigantic”. Instead, there should be smaller network meetings throughout the year.
Luciano Muhlbauer from the Italian delegation and Rifondazione Comunista quite rightly criticised this approach as far too timid: “We should not talk about the ESF as simply an event like the Olympics,” he said. “This is so much more. The ESF is not just an event, it is a movement we are building across Europe.” Chris Nineham made a distinction between “our perception of the ESF as organisers and the perception of the people who come to a weekend once a year. They are not tired.”
After all other delegations disagreed with the French proposal, comrade Zafari gave in and suggested a two-year deal: the ESF in 2004 should take place in London, the year after in Athens (apart from the single Austrian representative, everybody agreed that Austria was no real contender). The British, Greek and Italian delegation agreed with this - but not the rest of Sophie’s comrades. Pierre Khalfa and others were insistent that we could not possibly decide on the venue for the next ESF without having reached consensus on the frequency of the event. Of course, it was the French who stopped this consensus from being reached.
The meeting agreed to disagree. When the issue was put before the assembly on Tuesday morning by comrade Khalfa, the discussion was repeated along similar lines. Incredibly, a small, but vocal minority of about 10 comrades were allowed to prevent the assembly from taking a decision. Those 10, made up of some French comrades, together with one person from Sweden and another from Portugal, all argued that they too were “tired” and wanted smaller ESFs. Rather than taking a break themselves, they were used by the advocates of consensus ‘democracy’ to stop the overwhelming majority from moving on.
Comrade Khalfa pretended to be neutral during the proceedings, but undoubtedly favoured not taking a firm decision - French comrades have overruled bigger minorities many times before. So a special meeting on November 10 will discuss the issue again. If those 10 comrades can be bothered to make the trip they can of course stop any decision.
But, as both delegations from Greece and Britain agree about the proceedings, the people behind the London bid will undoubtedly be organising things as we speak. If anything, the delay will have given them six extra weeks in which to enter into private deals. Moreover, by the time they call an open meeting, a de facto leadership will be firmly in place.
Nevertheless, it is good news that the ESF will be coming to London. It is also excellent that Ken Livingstone has taken the bold step of supporting the ESF - an event that is clearly associated with the left.
London bid
Chris Nineham distributed a four-page document which contained some details of the London bid.
It claims that “the movement in Britain stretches back to the G8 meeting in Birmingham in 1998, which is seen by many as the birth of the anti-globalisation movement in the west”. In case the reader belongs to ‘the few’ who are unaware of this tremendous achievement of the British movement, let us remind you of what happened. The semi-religious charity group, Jubilee 2000, organised a human chain of some 20,000 people around the venue, demanding that the G8 should drop the debt owed by poorer countries. Others, of course, view the protests in Seattle as the birth of the ‘anti-capitalist movement’.
The supporting organisations, according to this document, are: the Greater London Authority, CND, Greenpeace, Jubilee Dept Campaign, War on Want; CWU, NUJ, South-East Region Trades Union Congress, Unison international committee, Globalise Resistance and Stop the War Coalition.
The comrades estimate rather optimistically that the overall cost would be only £875,750 (€1.3 million). In contrast, the initial budget for this year’s ESF in Paris was €5 million, but has since climbed to €7 million. The ESF 2002 in Florence cost €1 million, but only because the local city government did not charge the organisers for the venue and donated translation equipment and other facilities.
The “self-financed” event in London would generate money by selling entrance tickets for an average figure of £18. The comrades predict 50,000 ticket sales, generating £900,000 (the Florence ESF attracted 50,000 people).
The big plenary meetings could take place in the Millennium Dome, Royal Albert Hall, Alexandra Palace and Earls Court: “We envisage that the forum would have one or more ‘centres’ around Bloomsbury (London University), Westminster (Central Hall and the QECII) and the South Bank (Royal Festival Hall).”
The paper also mentions the idea of a tent village in “a central London park”, which would “save costs and give the event more of a ‘festival’ atmosphere” and could be used for some of the larger meetings. As such a decentralised event would mean that participants would have to use the London transport system, the paper states that “we are in early discussions about extra transportation being laid on for the forum and the possibility of an ESF travel card.”
A crucial part of the document deals with the point, “Who would run it?” It states that “support is being sought from a wide array of organisations and coalitions - cultural, faith, trade union, charity, alternative media and anti-discrimination - as well as individual London boroughs. If successful the ESF would be run by a steering committee consisting of representatives of some of the most important not-for-profit organisations, working in collaboration with the mayor’s office.”
The comrades already seem to have a very clear idea about the set-up of the executive, which apparently does not include any political parties. Surely, open and transparent elections will decide who is on any executive? However, further down the comrades make clear that they are “looking at the past experience of fixed-term coalitions, a widely used mechanism for social change in the UK”.
Does that mean we will see an attempt to repeat the undemocratic set-up of the Stop the War Coalition? Will the SWP set up an executive before a general assembly, which is then merely asked to act as a rubber-stamp? Will they again bar political groups they disagree with from the executive? Will they prevent observers from attending meetings?
Comments
Hide the following 21 comments
To Stop a Stitch-up..Get involved!
07.10.2003 12:06
These organisations are: the SWP under the banner of Globalise Resistance, War on Want, CND and Unison North East. The purpose of these negotiations has been to put forward a proposal (or bid) to the European Social Forum organising committee(s) to bring the ESF 2004 to London.
Regrettably, while these negotiations have been 'known' about among left networks and those of us involved in the ESF at various levels, they have never been acknowledged or actually discussed in an open ESF public meeting.
It is rumoured that even most of Globalise Resistance steering committee itself didn't know about the bid being put forward in their names.
In other words, all those people who have attended most of the ESF Enlgish meetings in London, Manchester and Newcastle, and have participated in various ways have not been consulted or even given the courtesy of being asked for an opinion about (a) whether they think holding the ESF in London in 2004 or ever is a good idea (b) are they prepared to get behind the bid (c) how should the bid be put together (d) the politics of decision-making and the organisations being brought into the ESF process.
I, for one, am very pissed off about it, as are countless others who are part of the UK anti-capitalist and/or social justice movement and/or anti-war movements and who have simply been ignored. We all know why this is: getting the bid accepted and the ball-rolling with as much secrecy as possible will allow the initiators of the bid to control the process from the outset. Unfortunately for you, the various elements and groups that have been left out in the cold in putting forward a bid for an ESF London 2004 are on to you and are working together to ensure that the process is made open, transparent, democratic and pluralist from the outset.
Apparently, the big unions are 'on board'; so too are the major 'NGOs'. So too is the Stop the War Coalition although I would love to know how that 'latter' decision was taken.
Great. Anyway, now that the bid is out in the open and has been publicly admitted, it is time for everyone who wants to participate in ESF 2004 to declare an interest and get involved.
We can all moan about the SWP and GR doing this and that - i even do it in my sleep - but if we don't challenge them to act democratically, and in good faith, if we don't work together to create a counter-hegemonic bloc within the ESF process, then yes, the SWP, the trade unions and NGOs will dominate the process. Again, they might do a great job in organising the ESF, but the whole ethos of the ESF, enshrined in its charter of principles, is that the ESF is not a place for domination and hierarchy, but a space for all movements, groups and individuals opposed to neoliberal globalisation (etc) and for another world, to come together, worm together and go from opposition to proposition. If the process appears to be a stitch-up from the start, then large numbers of groups and individuals will simply not get involved, and will be forced to point out to the WSF and ESF networks and movements that the Social Forum process is being brought into disrepute.
So, my plea to everyone in Indymedia, and in the radical movements of the UK is this: get involved! demand to be involved! bring your groups, organisations, networks, clubs, community centres, schools, universities, libraries, local trade union branches to the meetings and demand equal representation in the decision-making process.
If you don't get involved, but snipe from the sidelines during the next year, then you will allow the situation you critique to happen.
A meeting has been called by the London Social Forum for either the 18 or 19th of October to discuss the ESF London 2004 bid. More details will be forthcoming.
At the moment, it is not certain whether anyone from the 'bid' will come and answer questions. Nick Dearden of War on Want - a very sound individual - has agreed to in principle. But it doesn't matter - if everyone was to come along and at least have a discussion about why London should have the ESF 2004, what the merits are, what we would want to get out of it, how we could ensure the process is democratic and non-hierarchical, then this would be far more than anyone in the English ESF mobilisation has done so far.
in solidarity
Stuart Hodkinson
Stuart Hodkinson
Homepage: http://www.redpepper.org.uk
Largest anti-cap group negotiates without inviting the two members of the CPGB!
07.10.2003 13:03
all the CPGB did was wander around with papers slagging off the event.
An ESF in the UL would be great, whats your objection? that you are not arranging it?
perhaps you should tell us how much influence you have with the Italian Refounded CP or ATTAC? or perhaps as you were not in Genoa, Florence or Geneva they have never heard of you
Sonic
The Process is either inclusive or exclusive
07.10.2003 13:30
I couldn't give two shakes of a monkey's tail what the CPGB did at the last ESF. It is irrevelant to the issue of transparency and inclusivity in the ESF process.
If we are going to be fair, then from my recollection, all the SWP (sorry, i mean the footsoldiers, not the Central Committee) did for 3 days was to cause major blockages and stop people getting to seminars and plenaries because they were selling papers at the entrance to every fucking major venue in a straddled formation - you had to physically slalom your way in and then have your passes checked, causing huge queues.
The point? There isn't one, because it has nothing to with how the ESF bid has been put together.
What, precisely, is the point of having an ESF in England when the 'largest anti-capitalist organisation' attempts to monopolise the process? It will be disastrous. I would like the ESF to come to London. I don't want it to be run by the SWP. I would like to work with the SWP in making it a success. So would, I'm sure, everyone involved in the growing social forum movement in the UK, the CPGB, Workers Power, AWL, the trade union movement, the anti-war movement and so on. The fact that we have already been told, we might get a seat at the table kinda proves the point - is the ESF for everyone in the UK, for all groups, bodies, networks and movements, or is it a project of the SWP and its allies?
If it is the latter, then it will be a disaster - the amount of work required is unbelievable and involves more than standing on a stall or using a megaphone. It also involves conceding that you might not be right all the time, compromise and consensus.
with respect
Stuart
Stuart Hodkinson
WTF exactly is a social forum?
07.10.2003 13:56
Next time some one posts anything about any socila forum please clarly give an explanation of WTF it is you are going on debating about?
All the 'left leaning' interests in the UK being loosers for the past 25 years it is OK to give them and their views a platform but I am not sure I want to see their internal wranglings.
ram
remove last bullshit post
07.10.2003 14:29
john
Hot talk
07.10.2003 14:37
ewe
remove last bullshit post
07.10.2003 14:40
I agree, a social forum is not a fucking social forum with a £18 ticket and Canape Ken and his power hungry pals at the helm.
john
As I said
07.10.2003 15:19
"I would like to work with the SWP in making it a success"
Whicj is why you post a long message attacking them?
"English ESF mobilisation has done so far"
Just a wee point, we are not all English, there are another couple of nations in the UK (not that the CPGB care about that)
Sonic
Deal with the point
07.10.2003 15:47
I have not 'attacked' the SWP, i have criticised their actions. There is a difference in my world, but probably not in the black and white world of bastardised Leninism.
For your information: the UK process has been dominated by the 'English' mobilisation, because for various reasons, there has never been a UK Mobilisation network. Quite how Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland fit into all this is a good question. I would have preferred a UK mobilisation, but it is fairly understandable if Scottish comrades would like some autonomy.
Why should 'i' be invited to a meeting? Who do 'I' represent?
I'm glad we are getting to the heart of the matter. Who do the SWP, the CPGB, Workers Power, Alliance for Workers Liberty, Socialist Action, [ad infinitum and then some more] represent? Who do the NGOs represent? What are their membership figures? How do their democratic structures work? The only organisations that can be called democratic and representtaive are the trade unions and that speaks volumes about what is going on here.
I represent noone other myself - I don't claim to. But I am a trade unionist, an activist, an anti-war campaigner, an environmentalist, part of the Indymedia network, a member of the ESF English mobilisation network, a writer for Red Pepper magazine, a researcher for various organisations and campaigns and have been part of organising many demos, direct actions, events etc in my short active life on the left.
Are you telling me that I have no right to be part of a bid to bring the ESF to the UK because I don't belong to the SWP? Because I don't have their permission? because I don't fit in with their view of what 'the movement' is? Sonic, wake up and smell the fair trade, organic coffee:
Vanguardism is dead. Long live democracy.
Stuart
people get real!
07.10.2003 16:06
what exactly is the problem?
it looks like the esf is going to come to London - great!
there is nothing underhand going on the main individuals and groups who have been involved on the national and international process from the UK have been negotiating not just with UK organisations but with other european groups to agree the London bid.
All the meetings for the ESF (and remember it will be an international process not just a UK based) are run on consensus - what I imagine will happen is that if we get the ESF, meetings will be arranged and anyone with the energy, commitment and non-sectarian attitude toward working with others will organise the damn thing!
Remember it was people from GR who have argued with others against the French attempts to centralise this years ESF, it was members of the SWP (and no the two are not synonymous) who instigated the call for feb 15 at last years ESF - look at the actual actions of people and their effect not judge them because you don't like what you think they represent -- we need the event in London to be as radical, open and involving as many networks as possible....but we also need it to be popular hence involving the mayor as it can help to provide subsidised accomodation and meeting space in one of the world's most privatised cities, in the same way that the local council did in Florence last year, without affecting the autonomy of the ESF process - You know with this, Bush's visit and the G8 the next year we have a real chance to build on the success of the anti-war movement here and dramatically change the face of politics in the UK - so let's cut the petty sniping and get on with it!
noel
Homepage: http://www.resist.org.uk
Rebel W Speaks
07.10.2003 16:25
And also, you forget that there are two kinds of critic when it comes to the left, one is the person who complains about the movement they are a member of, and the other complains about the movement they are not a member of. I'm a member of STWC and of SWP. I'm not a member of CND, so I don't complain about them. Meantime I will back stab the SWP a lot, because its a problem that is ongoing.
And BTW: if you were a member you'd see that numbers are swelling massively. Some people join when they aren't ready / prepared, and then quit, and I think SWP should find ways of preventing that happening, so that those who join stay longer. And yes, I think its great news, but I think we must press other groups to join in. In my case, I can think of many organisations which won't be involved unless pushed.
Rebel W
Rebel W
you are all traitors!
07.10.2003 17:00
NOTHING is more important than attacking the SWP! They may appear to be a smallish far-left group who do nothing more sinister than sell papers, but we know THE TRUTH, with their army of clones and their giant underground bases THE SWP RUN THE WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD!
And worst of all they have betrayed the true tradition of Trotsky.. oops! no hang on I mean Bakunin, erm Kropotkin? Chomsky? no please don't leave, I am an autonomist really, would you like a copy of Weekly Worker?
a nonny mouse
Excellent Webpages on ESF, WSF, ASF etc...
07.10.2003 20:15
See
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/wsf/
for some discussion on where the ESF/World Forum Process is heading and the potentials that it holds, if we can prevent the authoritarian left and social democratic tendencies from hijacking it.
Kropotkin
Homepage: http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/wsf/
You sad people
07.10.2003 21:27
who controls that and why am i not controling it ,its not fair i should be in charge.
If london hosts a esf then great if it goes to glasgow ,belfast anywhere else then great
at least it is happening ,i would imagine you would have to talk to the local authorities where ever it was to be held ,You cant just erect giant marques or take over the dome ,ALL YOU LITTLE SECTARIAN PEOPLE OF ALL PERSUASIONS WILL GET YOURE CHANCE TO SELL YOURE PAPERS AND TELL ALL WHY YOU ARE THE ONES WITH THE TRUE ANSWERS.
WHAT A SCARED LITTLE WORLD YOU LIVE IN ENEMIES TO THE RIGHT OF YOU ENEMIES TO THE LEFT OF YOU.
SAD SAD SAD
herman & his hermits
Booo
07.10.2003 22:02
What I understand is that one is supposed to know WTF a social forumis all about?
Do you fuckheads debating endlessly over it know WTF it is in the first place?
ram
The WSF/ESF Charter of Principles for Ram
07.10.2003 22:13
Below is a guide to what the World Social Forum and European Social Forum is.
As for what 'social forum's are: dozens of local social forums have sprung up across Europe in the last few years. They are all unique and little research has been done on them. However, many are run along the same lines and purposes contained below.
Please note point 8 in the principles: that the WSF/ESF is a 'non-party' space.
WORLD SOCIAL FORUM CHARTER OF PRINCIPLES
1. The World Social Forum is an open meeting place for reflective thinking, democratic debate of ideas, formulation of proposals, free exchange of experiences and interlinking for effective action, by groups and movements of civil society that are opposed to neoliberalism and to domination of the world by capital and any form of imperialism, and are committed to building a planetary society directed towards fruitful relationships among Mankind and between it and the Earth.
2. The World Social Forum at Porto Alegre was an event localized in time and place. From now on, in the certainty proclaimed at Porto Alegre that "another world is possible", it becomes a permanent process of seeking and building alternatives, which cannot be reduced to the events supporting it.
3. The World Social Forum is a world process. All the meetings that are held as part of this process have an international dimension.
4. The alternatives proposed at the World Social Forum stand in opposition to a process of globalization commanded by the large multinational corporations and by the governments and international institutions at the service of those corporations’ interests, with the complicity of national governments. They are designed to ensure that globalization in solidarity will prevail as a new stage in world history. This will respect universal human rights, and those of all citizens - men and women - of all nations and the environment and will rest on democratic international systems and institutions at the service of social justice, equality and the sovereignty of peoples.
5. The World Social Forum brings together and interlinks only organizations and movements of civil society from all the countries in the world, but intends neither to be a body representing world civil society.
6. The meetings of the World Social Forum do not deliberate on behalf of the World Social Forum as a body. No-one, therefore, will be authorized, on behalf of any of the editions of the Forum, to express positions claiming to be those of all its participants. The participants in the Forum shall not be called on to take decisions as a body, whether by vote or acclamation, on declarations or proposals for action that would commit all, or the majority, of them and that propose to be taken as establishing positions of the Forum as a body. It thus does not constitute a locus of power to be disputed by the paarticipants in its meetings, nor does it intend to constitute the only option for interrelation and action by the organizations and movements that participate in it.
7. Nonetheless, organizations or groups of organizations that participate in the Forum’s meetings must be assured the right, during such meetings, to deliberate on declarations or actions they may decide on, whether singly or in coordination with other participants. The World Social Forum undertakes to circulate such decisions widely by the means at its disposal, without directing, hierarchizing, censuring or restricting them, but as deliberations of the organizations or groups of organizations that made the decisions.
8. The World Social Forum is a plural, diversified, non-confessional, non-governmental and non-party context that, in a decentralized fashion, interrelates organizations and movements engaged in concrete action at levels from the local to the international to built another world.
9. The World Social Forum will always be a forum open to pluralism and to the diversity of activities and ways of engaging of the organizations and movements that decide to participate in it, as well as the diversity of genders, ethnicities, cultures, generations and physical capacities, providing they abide by this Charter of Principles. Neither party representations nor military organizations shall participate in the Forum. Government leaders and members of legislatures who accept the commitments of this Charter may be invited to participate in a personal capacity.
10. The World Social Forum is opposed to all totalitarian and reductionist views of economy, development and history and to the use of violence as a means of social control by the State. It upholds respect for Human Rights, the practices of real democracy, participatory democracy, peaceful relations, in equality and solidarity, among people, ethnicities, genders and peoples, and condemns all forms of domination and all subjection of one person by another.
11. As a forum for debate, the World Social Forum is a movement of ideas that prompts reflection, and the transparent circulation of the results of that reflection, on the mechanisms and instruments of domination by capital, on means and actions to resist and overcome that domination, and on the alternatives proposed to solve the problems of exclusion and social inequality that the process of capitalist globalization with its racist, sexist and environmentally destructive dimensions is creating internationally and within countries.
12. As a framework for the exchange of experiences, the World Social Forum encourages understanding and mutual recognition among its participant organizations and movements, and places special value on the exchange among them, particularly on all that society is building to centre economic activity and political action on meeting the needs of people and respecting nature, in the present and for future generations.
13. As a context for interrelations, the World Social Forum seeks to strengthen and create new national and international links among organizations and movements of society, that - in both public and private life - will increase the capacity for non-violent social resistance to the process of dehumanization the world is undergoing and to the violence used by the State, and reinforce the humanizing measures being taken by the action of these movements and organizations.
14. The World Social Forum is a process that encourages its participant organizations and movements to situate their actions, from the local level to the national level and seeking active participation in international contexts, as issues of planetary citizenship, and to introduce onto the global agenda the change-inducing practices that they are experimenting in building a new world in solidarity.
APPROVED AND ADOPTED IN SÃO PAULO, ON APRIL 9, 2001, BY THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT MAKE UP THE WORLD SOCIAL FORUM ORGANIZATING COMMITTEE, APPROVED WITH MODIFICATIONS BY THE WORLD SOCIAL FORUM INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL ON JUNE 10, 2001.
Stuart
STOP THE INFIGHTING
08.10.2003 17:43
The communists and the anarchists really must start TALKING TO EACHOTHER!
Ozymandias
Sectarian or principled.
08.10.2003 19:49
As an anarchist, I would have no trouble inviting anyone - trots, stalinists, ngos, liberals, socialists (of which anarchists are a type anyway) etc etc - to the ESF, so long as the structures are in place to allow a truly democratic (decentralised, grassroots, horizontal) debate. If the institutional left controls the event (by going behind everyone elses backs, and organising it themselves) then its likely to be a talking shop for their favoured politicians and ideas. And they'll control the way a debate is managed, and the form it takes so that it will represent their politics - vertical discussion, huge podiums, little disussion, preventing dissent. If its organised by all of the groups in a democratic manner then its likely to be a lot more diverse and progressive.
So no, being principled is NOT sectarian. Sectarian is working behind people's backs, refusing to acknowledge different points of views by excluding them, etc. And this is exactly what the SWP is doing - according to some posts here - right now. If they surprise us, and invite everyone to be involved then great, but indications at the moment are not hopeful.
Kropotkin
pedantic! i know
09.10.2003 07:20
fact: on may 16th 1998 upwards of 6000 people, predominantly orientated around the anarchist/reclaim the streets/anti-road protest movement, took part in what was the first internationally co-ordinated action against global capitalism (in this instance the g8).
on june 18th 1999 a second internationally co-ordinated action took place (co-inciding with the g8 in bonn) which followed a mobilisation and tour of activists from countries not in the west.
both these predate seattle, and whilst nothing can be proved it is probable that these events gave impetus to seattle, and provided the ground work for it too happen.
so it wasn't just semi-religous types who were at birmingham, and whilst i detest the swp, in this instance they are right, you are wrong. fuq seattle, learn your history!!!
no body in particular
origins..
09.10.2003 11:03
just somebody
Constructive dialogue
09.10.2003 18:12
So credit to them where it's due.
From where they stand, the anarchist side of the movement doesn't look that relevant, partly because it's not that visible to them. They're out of touch with indymedia and urban 75 and the squat scene and all that kind of stuff. So they're probably not going to make the effort to initiate a dialogue with us. We'll have to take it upon ourselves to make that step ourselves.
Now, just because they've started the ball rolling in terms of a UK bid for the ESF, that doesn't mean that they have to continue to monopolise it. We have to say to them, this is our movement too, we're a movement of one no and many yeses (as opposed to the trotskyist one no, one yes) and us lot are going to have every bit as much say in this project as you lot. We need to say that to them and work together with them and most importantly make sure it's organised along fully inclusive horizontal lines.
The wrong way to go about this would be to approach these people and say "hey, fuck you you wankers...". But we do need to talk to them.
And I'll be disappointed if (assuming the UK gets the ESF, which it may well not) the anarchists only get one or two "fringe" meetings.
Chestnut