UK Indymedia | Kick Ariel Sharon out of the UK!

be ashamed be very ashamed

09.07.2003 16:00

As many of the worlds population is still not willing to confront anti-Semitism within their societies and to stop blaming the Jews for everything, some of us have still not forgotten the reasons for the creation of the state of Israel. We will never forget the horrors that militant hatred of Jews can bring. As the leader of the only free and democratic land in the middle- east Mr Sharon should be welcomed to London as a guest of honour.

When Israel was created the real left wing celebrated its creation as a beacon of hope against anti-Jewish violence worldwide (

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/stories/022003_story03.htm ). Now 55 years later the mainstream left has turned its back on the state of Israel, even going as far as to directly associate Israel with war- a site that reminded many of us of the propaganda of Hitler and Goebbels. Shame on the STWC and shame on all of those who plan to protest against Sharon during his visit. With the BBC not even being allowed to interview Israeli officials after their disgusting parroting of Palestinian propaganda and the steady rise in anti-Semitic attacks recently the need for the existence of the state of Israel has never been clearer to us here in this country.

What ever you wish to call your criticism of Sharon, or however you try to justify your hate, it does not wash as some of us can see it for what it is: Anti-Semitism a cancer at the core of this society. Choosing to believe any lies or slanders against Jews or Israel on a daily basis and using that to justify this hate is not acceptable. When any real dictators or human-rights ignoring leaders turn up to London then IMC UK remains silent and there on the streets are only a handful of exiled nationals worried about their families and friends and no other protesters. But when a leader of a democratic country arrives then we are mobilised to kick him out, call him a fascist and encouraged to back dictatorships instead of democracies. While we continue to demonise the Jews and justify a radical minority of the Palestinians who offer no freedom and hope for descriminated groups then the BNP can laugh their way to the polling booths.

What we should kick is anti-Semitism and anti-Jewish lies off Indymedia UK. Let us welcome Mr Sharon and support him in the roadmap to peace.

Searchlight reader.

War Criminals supported by Searchlight Readers?

09.07.2003 17:24

So if Pinochet was Jewish then you'd support him too eh? What an utterly niaeve and convoluted view you have. The tabloidy nature of Searchlight is reflected in its readership, obviously.

Down with all mass murderers, oppressors and the state!

ZeroZero

anti-fascist supporters of Israel???

09.07.2003 20:42

Got this from the Searchlight website........

Searchlight

Searchlight's aim is to combat racism, neo-nazism, fascism and all forms of prejudice. Searchlight is a non-sectarian organisation in political, ethnic and religious terms. It believes in achieving the broadest possible unity in the fight against racism, neo-nazism, fascism and prejudice.

Got this from the dictionary.........

Fascism : the authoritarian form of government in Italy from 1922-1943, characterised by extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-communism and restrictions on individual freedom.

Got this from putting 2+2 together...

Israel is a fascist state yet an anti-fascist site supports it.

Draw your own conclusions...

oi!

Bollocks

09.07.2003 21:28

Criticism of Israel, and Israel's policies regarding gross human right abuses in Occupied Palestine, anti-Semitic??? Come off it, that sort of mentality only thrives in the world of right wing neo-cons.

DOWN WITH THE ZIONIST STATE! FREE PALESTINE!

Thomas J

be very very very ashamed

09.07.2003 22:11

Firstly I never claimed that I would support a brutal dictator like Pinochet and I remember the protests against the relationship between Pinochet and Thatcher. In fact I even state in my comment -When any real dictators or human-rights ignoring leaders turn up to London then IMC UK remains silent and there on the streets are only a handful of exiled nationals worried about their families and friends and no other protesters-. Although at the Pinochet demos there was a left precense at the demo this is sadly an exception to the rule and more due to a hate of Thatcher than a genuine concern for the suffering under Pinochet. As to zero zeros other wise words I certainly agree with the statement Down with all mass murderers, oppressors and the state! but not what it infers in this context. Sharon is certainly not a mass murderer and the incidences of 1982 were committed by christian extremists the phalange. Israel was shocked at this outrage and Sharon was indeed forced to resign from the ministry of defence on the issue. An Israeli commission found Sharon only indirectly guilty and a Belgian group that attempted to pursue the case had it dismissed from court immediately as it was bollocks. It would be perhaps useful for us to look at the judicial system in this country and fight that because I doubt that the UK courts or government would ever be so honourable on such an occasion. If you read the article that I linked to you will see that the oppressors of the Jews and the mass murderers of them are actually non-Jews and that the state of Israel is there as a kind of autonomous body to defend them. This is why its creation was applauded by the left in 1948. As to whether Searchlight has become tabloid like I cannot comment as I read it on the internet.

As to Ois 2+2 is 5 I would like to ask exactly what conclusion he draws. Anti- fascism is a movement against fascism and the reasons that allows it to arise. For this reason it is important to fight against all forms of prejudice and descrimination and to offer alternatives and defence for victims. This is why Israel was founded and why many anti- fascists support it. IT does not mean specifically fascism in the Italian sense but all forms of fasicism. Comparing Israel to a fascist state is absolutely stupid as it has a free press and a democratic system of government etc etc etc.

As to Thomas Js great soundbyte mantras. There is a line between anti-Semitism and genuine criticism of Israel but I think its fair to say that all 3 of you have crossed that line once again proving my original assumption (

http://www.gebladerte.nl/30037v01.htm) So why is this site obsessed with criticising the Jews and Israel and why have IMCs received so much international criticism from antifascists and left wing groups worldwide? I suppose we are all just neo-cons then are we. I personally suspect that you three are the real trolls.

Well if Sharon is not a butcher as the original post claimed. If Israel is not a fascist state and you do not protest or complain against real dictators and fascists then I presume you will not go to this hate parade and welcome Sharon as I do. Perhaps you could go with an apology?

Still reading Searchlight

sharon

09.07.2003 22:25

Yes, I'm sure Sharon was shocked by the massacres at Shabra and Shatila. So shocked he sat back and let them carry on. A real statesman.

vick

He's a war criminal, even if you discount Sabra and Shatila

09.07.2003 23:33

Sharon certainly IS a mass murderer. As well as his support of the massacres in Lebanon, he led a commando raid on the town of Qibya and massacred 69 civilians in 1953. That's plenty criminal enough to begin with.

The Belgians didn't throw out Sharon's indictment immediately; they threw it out on appeal. And not because it was 'bollocks' but because Sharon was a serving head of state so they weren't allowed to extradite him, for reasons of diplomatic immunity. Presumably, as soon as he gets kicked out of power, they can try again.

While the Belgians were deliberating, the Israeli secret service were busy in Beiruit, assassinating possible witnesses to the trial. Obviously they were worried that this trial might NOT turn out to be bollocks.

Hope this helps.

Aim Here

This piece by the great Latuff sums up Sharon very well...

10.07.2003 01:11

Sharon is a mass murderer cause he is a FASCIST!

By the way, we Pro-Palestinian activsts have NO problems with Jews, our issue is with the Israeli govt.

Thomas J

Searchlight on Searchlight

10.07.2003 06:49

So a Searchlight reader sees no contradiction in voting for Sharon. Searchlight and murderous Zionists. Why am I not surprised to see that?

natsocnet

searchlight readers...

10.07.2003 08:25

As usual Searchlighters with their head up their arse...from the same people that told you the BNP was dead...Sharon is'nt a war criminal... so blowing up Palestinian children, schools, hospitals, tearing down homes, destroying crops...

You are right that criticism of Israeli policy is sometimes anti-semetic...but that does not mean that Sharon & the IDF's behaviour is not utterly despicable.

chris b

on sharon being a mass murderer

10.07.2003 09:56

i am sure you are as much aware as i am that an israeli governmental commission found sharon indirectly responsible for the massacres in shabra and shatila. they adviced to never give him a high governmental position ever again and under this pressure he resigned. if even israel has backed up this statement, maybe you can open your eyes a little bit. just because people elected him, doen't mean he has to be a nice democratic guy right? history shows similar examples, remember?

and: if you find that other human rights violator's presence in the uk is not commented upon enough on imc, then do your bit and publish, that's what this site is all about. don't moan, do something!

Justagirl

Response

10.07.2003 11:13

Well a few good points here and a few really fucking stupid ones. Natsocnet sounds suspiciously right-wing to me (National Socialist Network?) so I am glad that Searchlight are pissing you off. Still I can not speak for Searchlight as I only read it on the net and chose this nick because I wanted people to read the above article. It’s a shame most of you obviously have not bothered.

To vick, I have absolutely no way of knowing whether Sharon was shocked or not and never stated that he was. I stated that Israelis were shocked and there were mass demonstrations in Israel in protest of what happened. In retrospect its perhaps not surprising what happened because of the built up hate of the christians due to prolonged repression but its easy to look back and draw conclusions. I have no idea whether Sharon was shocked and neither have you. It lost him his job and really dented his political career. The outrage in Israel was definitely more predictable than the massacres themselves so it would have been political suicide for Sharon to purposely do this as well as almost impossible. It seems to me that what you are trying to infer is that Sharon is a cold- blooded evil murderer without any proof at all. Now that is classic anti-Semitism.

Aim here starts off very well in the comment but at the end reduces to rumours of murders by those amazing James Bond like Most Sad Agents. Oh they are everywhere and always so good that they never leave any proof at all. But you started well so I do not mind answering your points. The case of 1953 is very interesting. He did indeed lead an operation that lead to many deaths and again it received much criticism in Israel from Israelis. The event was at a strange time in Israels history and the UN even commented on the incident putting blame on both sides of the conflict for the constant incursions and the resulting response (UN resolution 101). What is interesting is also the fact that this incident was not even mentioned in the original post and was pretty much considered as dealt with by all parties. It has been ignored by all for many years until Sharon became PM where it has been used as a weapon to discredit Sharon. On some internet sites the number of those murdered is sited as high as 600+. Of course this does not excuse any killings but it is obvious how the racist cliches can be used to smear Sharon and Jews in general. Something I hope we would all renounce.

This leads me to Thomas Js post. I am glad you have stopped parroting mantras but still disappointed in your effort. I would have commented on the SWP thread below but you were doing a good job for me and probably many other readers of this site. It’s a shame that your attitudes to Islamaphobia do not obviously extend to anti-Semitism. As I will say again: I accept criticism of Israel and of Sharon but object to the emphasis of this site to this subject, especially when most of this criticism is either factual bollocks or racial stereotyping. Do you really support the comparisons by Latuff of Sharon to Suharto and Pol Pot for example! If you think they are comparable then you are really sick in the head. Sharon is not responsible for genocide, he is not a “butcher” ,as the original post points out, and he is not a fascist but a democratically elected leader of a free and democratic multi party state where he will have to get re-elected in elections to remain in power. When justagirl claims that history shows that not all people elected are nice girls can I presume that you are talking about Hitler. The mind boggles. Israel is one of the most fair and free countries in the world and compared to its surrounding states it is a model worth following. This brings me back to my original point of why is it always criticised by this site to the point that IMCs are getting mass amounts of criticism from left- wing groups? Oh and Zionists like myself are NOT anti-Palestinian but have a problem with extremist groups who kill innocent civilians and those who discredit the state of Israel unfairly, reducing themselves to racist stereotypes of Jews. As anti-racists you should do this too perhaps…

As to chris b I appreciate your admittance that much criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic and I´m sure we would all accept that anti-Semitism is a growing problem in the UK. If you object to Israels policies in Palestine then say so as the original post should have said and don’t back lies of Sharon being a butcher and a murderer. If I had not of commented on this thread then I doubt anyone would have pointed this out being quite happy to allow these lies to go unchallenged. As to justagirls statement that I should not just moan but do something well I am baffled. You do not know what I do or do not do and that is no excuse. Perhaps I could join the BNP and start printing articles there on their site about racism and sexism in the UK! The problem is that IMC runs and stands as a left wing progressive independent media site but is hard to differ from many right wing sites in its attitude to Israel. It commonly reprints anti-Semitic cliches and lies and has in this case completely turned against Israel, a state that the left supported in 1948 as the article I linked to proves. I am doing something – I am criticising you for doing this as is my right. My opinion is a progressive one and not right-wing and the anti-Semitism discussion is a well publicised and interesting discussion for the left in general. There are valid arguments to be pro and anti-Israel and I accept criticism of Israel just as long it is based on FACT, put in historical context and does not reduce to racist stereotypes. I refer once again to the link in my 2nd comment on how to do this. If you cross this line then you deserve to be criticised. The original post did this so I lodged my complaint and alternative opinion. Willingness to discuss is the strength of the left- lack of debate and racial views of the world are the weakness of the right.

The only one who reads anything?

Aah, sweet, but its an old trick

10.07.2003 11:21

The anti-semitism number eh. It's been done to death.

So, what do you call the Jewish and Israeli groups who are involved in co-ordinating the actions planned to protest the murderous Mr. Sharon's visit?

Huh?

One things for shit sure, I won't be buying Searchlight Magazine - it seems to rot its readers brains.

And having spent a fair bit of time in the west Bank, and Israel, I can say with certainty that the criticisms against the Sharon regime are justified, however much you try and guilt trip us into muting our criticisms.

Okay,oi! - so you won't be there.

Anyone else up for it?

freethepeeps

Steve Silver, the author of the Searchlight article ............

10.07.2003 11:30

......... has the flags of America and Israel on his blogspot.

Why would that be?

Is it cos he's a zionist propagandist or what, we all want to know!

freethepeeps

Stephen Silver's blogspot

10.07.2003 11:35

I forgot to post the address.

So, is it Searchlight's policy to include flag waving nationalists amongst it's contributers.

Also oi!, wanna point me to a piece where they rebut some of the racism myths against Palestinians?

Or is that not part of their agenda?

LET SHARON KNOW HE IS NOT WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

freethepeeps
Homepage: http://stevesilver.blogspot.com/

http://stevesilver.blogspot.com/

10.07.2003 12:03

Didn't come up in the last post

blimey

Mr Searchlight reader...

10.07.2003 13:03

Check this out before flapping your big gob over whether or not Sharon is a war criminal...

http://electronicintifada.net/new.shtml

http://www.nkusa.org

http://www.palsolidarity.org

http://www.btselem.org/

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-isr/index

http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp

Whatever you think on the matter, what Israel is doing is far from right. Oh and for you infomation, about four to ten times as many Palestinians have been murdered in the conflict, most of which civilians, than Israelis.

Thomas J

UK urged to arrest Sharon when he arrives for talks with Blair

10.07.2003 13:54

London, July 10, IRNA -- The Palestinian Solidarity Campaign (PSC)
are urging the British government to arrest Israeli leader Ariel
Sharon for war crimes when he arrives in London on Sunday for his
first working visit to the UK.
"The UK should treat Sharon for what he is and put him on trial as
a war criminal," a PSC spokesman told IRNA Thursday. He said that it
was well documented that he has "blood on his hands."
The Israeli leader is due to have dinner with Prime Minister Tony
Blair at his office on Monday evening, when the PSC has arranged to
hold a picket in protest against the government welcoming a war
criminal.
Sharon is also holding talks with Foreign Secretary Jack Straw
before flying to Norway on Wednesday, where similar protests are
being held.
The Norway Post reported Thursday that Prime Minister Kjell Magne
Bondevik's talks with Israeli leader Ariel Sharon will be held in his
home town of Molde on the northwest coast of Norway.
The decision not to hold the talks in Oslo follows the Norwegian
left-wing Red Electoral Alliance (RV) sending a formal request to the
country's Director of Public Prosecutions for Sharon to be arrested
upon his arrival.
RV leader Torsein Dahle has accused the Israeli leader of being
guilty of a range of war crimes dating from 1953, when he led the
forces to blow up 45 Palestinians houses in Qibya, killing 69 people,
including women and children.
Sharon is more notoriously known for leading the Israeli invasion
of Lebanon and for being responsible for the 1982 massacre of more
than 800 Palestinian refugees in Sabra an Shatila camps when he was
Defence Minister.
The Norway Post reported that Sharon would arrive in Molde in the
morning of July 16 and leave again in the late afternoon after talks
on the Middle East peace process. It said that the Israeli leader
would have time for sightseeing in the scenic city.

http://www.irna.ir/en/head/030710155831.ehe.shtml

IRNA (Iranian news agency)

going off the point a bit

10.07.2003 15:32

Is criticism of Israel anti-Semitic? No.
Is there any point in demonstrating against Sharon for 1953 military actions and whatnot, whilst keeping strangely silent about the withdrawals from Palestinian cities and the roadmap, imperfect as it is, going to help anything at all? No.

Josh
mail e-mail: osh_josh_bgosh@nospam.hotmail.com

Withdrawals - you have to be kidding.

10.07.2003 15:59

Sharon is not a man of peace, it's business as usual in the West Bank and gaza. All the concessions are cosmetic. Big newsplash about dismantling illegal outposts (aren't they all illegal?) and in fact 18 new ones have been opened up since then. Big splash about withdrawals in Gaza, one of the checkpoints is retaken. Withdrawal in Bethlehem, the troops are on the outskirts and can move back in within 5 minutes. That's pretty normal for Bethlehem.

The true face of Israel is shown by the acceleration of the building of the Apartheid wall, stealing more land, trees and houses, despite the fact that it is well behind the green line.

Sharon is most certainly not a man of peace, and Israel has a well documented history of abusing "peace" processes to strengthen its grip even further.

The US and Israel are out to provoke civil war in Palestine, and as to the other memberss of the "Quartet", well they're not playing a role at the moment. Are they?

http://indymedia.org.il/imc/webcast/61105.html

freethepeeps

Kick Ariel Sharon out of the UK!

Comments

be ashamed be very ashamed

War Criminals supported by Searchlight Readers?

anti-fascist supporters of Israel???

Bollocks

be very very very ashamed

sharon

He's a war criminal, even if you discount Sabra and Shatila

This piece by the great Latuff sums up Sharon very well...

Searchlight on Searchlight

searchlight readers...

on sharon being a mass murderer

Response

Aah, sweet, but its an old trick

Steve Silver, the author of the Searchlight article ............

Stephen Silver's blogspot

http://stevesilver.blogspot.com/

Mr Searchlight reader...

UK urged to arrest Sharon when he arrives for talks with Blair

going off the point a bit

Withdrawals - you have to be kidding.

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