#KillBaharMustafa
freethepeeps | 24.05.2015 12:09 | Education | Gender | Social Struggles | London
I didn't invent the hashtag, although I did think of it on the bus (and I don't have a smartphone). As it goes, I'm most certainly not in favour of killing Bahar, and I don't even think that she should be sacked.
This is not the first time that she has been the subject of media attention at Goldsmiths, the university where my eyes were forced wide open on a Social Anthropology course a couple of decades ago.
I can't say that I am entirely comfortable with her style of politics, whether it is the burning of Socialist Worker, or telling white people that they are not welcome at a union screening of Dear White People, a movie which I ended up watching alone in my front room, but might have got more from if I had watched it with others and there had been a discussion about it afterwards.
Burning Books Bahar stylee
Along with being interested in the developments at my old Uni, I have also followed the stories because I have been trying to get my head around the antics of the Intersectionalists, who have on at least one occassion chanted the Kill All Men slogan while a man was actually being attacked, and who have gone on to cheerlead other attacks, including in Liverpool and, more recently at a Football match.
It is unsurprising that there are those on social media who don't get the 'in-joke' contained in #KillAllWhiteMen, nor that some of them react with anger, bearing in mind that the seemingly hateful #tag seemingly mirrors the hateful behaviour that its user so passionately opposes.
It is tedious to come back from trying to build up campaigns and solidarity in my local area, only to find more activists attacking yet another individual on Twitter. Or hearing another story of an individual who has been fucked over by yet another unaccountable accountability process that could not possibly be further removed from the transformative and restorative justice ideas which spawned them in the first place.
I look forward to the day when students stop burning texts and develop cogent arguments against them, and a movement which focuses on dismantling the systemic injustices and inequality in which we are all trapped, and which affects all our behaviour to some extent.
Let's remember that most White Men haven't killed anybody, nor raped them, and that many are desperate to find ways to ditch the last vestiges of privilege that they have left, and to live as genuine equals in a world which doesn't revolve around violence, exploitation and dumb notions of supremacy.
And that when they ask for help in understanding how best they go about this they probably aren't asking to be infantilised or abused. Nor asking to be told to "shut the fuck up".
We are all fighting a political, social and economic system based on exploitation, violence, marginalisation and exclusion. Surely we should be working towards alternatives that contain none of these features as its central planks?
If I ever stopped believing in the capacity of individuals to change for the better, I would most certainly not be bothering to try and build a better world in amongst, and in spite of this fucked up movement.
freethepeeps
Comments
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bahar should not be killed.
25.05.2015 01:16
she unfortunately proves what many right wingers have wanted to believe for many years about the loony left. i used to be a this kind of academic environment, and i think some people literally cannot understand this is not how most people think, and what they say sounds bonkers to most of the outside world.
I would like to hear or read an article where she explains her terms, and why a BME person can't be racist.
a-real
Bahar ' refutes accusation of racism and sexism'
25.05.2015 02:24
The link to EastLondonlines includes this quote:
"“I, an ethnic minority woman, cannot be racist or sexist towards white men, because racism and sexism describe structures of privilege based on race and gender.
“Therefore, women of colour and minority genders cannot be racist or sexist, since we do not stand to benefit from such a system.”
freethepeeps
Homepage:
http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2015/05/goldsmiths-su-officer-responds-to-accusations-of-racism-sexism/
Class
25.05.2015 12:20
"The colour of one's skin has been given primacy over the content of one's character."
I agree with the principle that oppression intersects but it's application within the British left produces exclusivity in a movement that is supposed to be inclusive. Is a black woman going suffer more crap on a daily basis than me, the answer is a blindingly obvious yes. Should that mean that we should stand apart or together.? The answer to me is again blindingly obvious.
Crow
Bahar Mustafa is the anti racist Hitler
25.05.2015 16:51
potato salad
to be sure
26.05.2015 23:50
You mean she hasn't started denying the Holocaust yet?
con text
3 million
27.05.2015 00:14
reviser
Some things never change
27.05.2015 05:30
Ben
Re "it serves Israel to keep up the myth"
27.05.2015 06:33
Ashamed of you
@Ben
27.05.2015 07:53
Realism
mirror mirror on the wall...
27.05.2015 08:28
Great contributions fellas, you do us proud!!
FTP puts up a well written, thought provoking article on a subject that is at the heart of today's activism and you immediately attack him. Why?
Try and engage with the points he has made. I'm sure you all have something to contribute and I for one am interested in what you have to say.
Are Bahar's et al tactics the way forward or just a self-serving disruptive anomaly?
Why are certain individuals in the movement viciously stalked and attacked? Is it not better to engage and openly debate so that we can all learn and progress?
The Struggle is being revised. The working man is now the enemy? He should be killed?
Ok, so Bahar maybe meant it as a joke amongst her friends, fair do's, we all like a laugh but when the humor takes on a more substantive sinister tone where the banter causes bruises and the killer punch line becomes incitement... well maybe it's time for a little self-reflection.
Lilith
honest response
27.05.2015 13:23
Better asking freethepeeps that, aren't you, as he's the one mechanically hiding every comment he disagrees with (while keeping visible, of course, your praise).
con text
the ii's have it? yay or nay?
27.05.2015 20:27
“I don't even think that she should be sacked.”
“Ms Mustafa described the backlash she has received as "an outrageous distortion of fact"”
Really?
A supporter of Bahar tweeted;
“I #supportbaharmustafa because safe spaces are incredibly important for all minorities and white people & men shouldn't try to destroy them”
So, the SS to ghettoize all minorities? Hmmm, don't sound right, but then again!?!
Bahar does a bit of back peddaling;
“Ms Mustafa has said her use of the term "white trash" on an official account had been "not professional”...
...But she also said the use on her personal account of hashtags such as #killallwhitemen were "in-jokes and ways that many people in the queer feminist community express ourselves".”
Is that the same sort of excuse closet racists use to justify their "humouress" usage of racist language, of course only in the company of close friends and fellow racists?
Bahar needs to reconsider her hashtag handbag attacks.
I remember reading another “intersectional” topic article called “trouble on the terraces” the other day where a commenter called Step had this to say;
“Making racist and sexist comment is totally unacceptable under any circumstances and also makes someone unfit for a leading union position.”
and;
" In just the same way that it would be no excuse to respond in racist terms, no matter what abuse you have thrown at you."
Hmmm yes, very interesting. Could this be a scoop, the first reported case of intersectional intersectionalism?
Lilith
In joke
28.05.2015 09:28
That freethepeeps is unable to either see or refuses to see the errors in the statements this person has said does not surprise me, his selective blindness regarding repeated antisemitism is legendary in activist circles so an extension to this dispute is an easy jump for him however I still find it remarkable that an individual can write the words,
"I, an ethnic minority woman, cannot be racist or sexist towards white men" and he still not understand the problem !
If activists are going to be taken seriously in the building of a better, fairer more inclusive society then we must at the very least live by the creed we expect of others. The fact that freethepeeps once again can't or refuses to see this did not surprise me once I read that Bahar Mustafa regards Israel as a State that doesn't exist I joined up the loose threads. For freethepeeps all things lead back to Israel and Jewish people. Any enemy of the Jews is a friend of freethepeeps regardless of how offensive, unpleasant and downright stupid they are.
Not one
Some things never change.
28.05.2015 10:36
Post a comment critical of freethepeeps - comment is hidden.
Editorial Guidelines - don't make me laugh, more like one man's vanity website these days. Glad I no longer have anything to do with the project now.
Ben
@Ben
28.05.2015 12:23
IMCister
the sickness
28.05.2015 12:26
the doctor
the roy bard charm
28.05.2015 12:29
28.05.2015 12:23
We're glad you're not involved in the collective any more as well - so piss off you tosser.
IMCister
not charmed
the r o y b a r d charm
28.05.2015 12:32
28.05.2015 12:23
We're glad you're not involved in the collective any more as well - so piss off you tosser.
IMCister
---
When you've got to set up a filter to autohide comments about one of your editors because he's so poor at what he does that the activist community routinely calls him out by name, that should tell you something about whether he's a plus or a minus to your project.
not charmed
Activists calling out .........
28.05.2015 13:25
Why don't these brave activists do it face to face or identify themselves? Why do they just do it by trolling on Indymedia? A site which they for shit sure are not paying........
freethepeeps
why indeed
28.05.2015 13:41
Says the man hiding behind the nym "Ro y Ba rd."
look atcha-self
As it goes.....
28.05.2015 14:25
It is hardly a mystery who I am - is google broken on your computer?
And my nick is now an open secret on Indymedia after this:
freethepeeps
Now, are you ready to put up a photo of yourself?
28.05.2015 14:29
Which is why you are relegated to the hidden sections of this site.........
Some of us are on a journey and growing up. You're not one of them.......
Roy Bard
The story behind the damage done to Indymedia UK and who is to blame
28.05.2015 14:36
“All IMC's recognize the importance of process to social change and are committed to the development of non-hierarchical and anti-authoritarian relationships, from interpersonal relationships to group dynamics. Therefore, shall organize themselves collectively and be committed to the principle of consensus decision making and the development of a direct, participatory democratic process] that is transparent to its membership.”
Regretfully for freethepeeps and others in the Mayday collective they viewed collective decision making as meaning, ‘we block and block until we get what we want.’ Undermining the entire process and leading to the inevitable split and consequently the theft of the site by Mayday. A situation that remains today with one techie (Chris from Sheffield) refusing all communication and discussion and maintaining an undemocratic hierarchical control of the URL and the server.
The consequence of this theft is of course the situation we find ourselves in today with the Indymedia UK project in a near terminal state and other Indymedia sites closing because of bullying tactics by the Mayday collective. Most recently Bristol Indymedia which called it a day after a sustained campaign of intimidation and disinformation from freethepeeps. Their collective has re-launched with a new site that does not use the Indymedia name as they do not wish to be associated with Indymedia UK, a sad indictment of how badly Mayday has damaged the Indymedia name in this country.
At the heart of this is of course the great problem that Mayday hides whenever the subject is broached, anti-Semitism. For those of us who remember the Gilad Atzmon debacle and the defence of his hate speech by freethepeeps none of this is new. The many and varied problems faced by the Palestinian people are not helped by classifying all Jewish people as “part of the problem” and “sharing the blame of the Israeli army”.
For me Indymedia UK is a dead project, I read it rarely and now mostly only when others point out the odd story that is of interest (probably no more than four to five times a year) and my energies are spent on things that actualy address the needs of people facing up to Austerity and the future Tory cuts. Indymedia UK what a great thing for a short period of time but freethepeeps and its tiny band of followers who stole the site must face the blame for its destruction.
A former IMC mod (London Indymedia)
Thank You Lilith
28.05.2015 14:50
I am thinking very much about the way in which we respond. These two articles are such different responses to similar issues.
Which one do you think would best encourage readers to join in the self-reflection and pondering theri own role in moving towards a better world?
freethepeeps
no need to count
28.05.2015 15:04
But you obviously need to do anything you can, rather than engage with the substance of the need to change ourselves, so that we can save our planet
On my face book page I posted this:
Am I proud to be white? Hell NO!
Am I proud to be me? Hell YES!
I'm sharing it with you and your devious lilltle mind :-)
freethepeeps
daydream nation
28.05.2015 15:24
it is also a bit hard to talk about white privilege when we have Sajid Javid, Baroness Warsi, Chuka Umanna, etc who are obviously not white, but definitely part of the capitalist structure. recent articles in the guardian have shown that large numbers of so called BME voted Tory, just like many white people.
It is too simplistic to imagine that a middle class BME woman at a good university is somehow more oppressed than white so called 'chavs' from council estates. it is never that simple.
i am not white, however, i must confess that i've had a better education and chances than many white english people. I feel it is fake to pretend i'm so oppressed because of colonial history.
beaner
If I Could
28.05.2015 19:25
I would give you my lust for life to replace with your worry about survival.
I would give you my curiosity to see what you do and how you do it to replace with your fear that you are not good enough.
I would give you my commitment to see what they do and how they do it so you are no longer manipulated and controlled.
I would give you my excitement to see how stuff works so we can deconstruct the oppressive and construct the liberated.
I would shower you with inspiration for each and every day so you may resist despair and depression.
I would give you my vision of the people united so you may move from your petty jealousies and distractions to delight and attraction.
I would give you my acceptance that it will take as long as it takes but it could take a minute, an hour or a day if we so desire it to be.
I would manifest millions of conscious, present, deliberate, informed, well-educated activists for liberation and self-determination who would be you.
I would give you my faith in the people for they are you.
JT
Thanks to you ftp for taking the time
28.05.2015 23:16
“I am thinking very much about the way in which we respond”
Yes indeedy, but I certainly didn't expect to read what was in that Emily Goldstein link!!!
Wow that was heavy reading. It appears Emily is the quintesential self-hater.
She says;
“One of the more common memes that I’ve seen white supremacists spread around recently has been “diversity is a code word for white genocide... Well, guess what, white supremacists? That’s exactly right.”
Aye Emily and don't they just love you for saying it. Comments bottom of page;
For some reason the racists in the above link refer to Emily's jewness in rather disparaging terms, which is suprising considering that Israel, the Jewish state, being the epitomy of Racial Equality and goodwill to all mankind, is the origin of her forebears.
This seemed odd;
“First off, I am a white person myself, so allow me to get that out of the way. I’m extremely glad that the white race is dying, and you should be too... Descendants of Holocaust survivors can personally attest to the evil that white people are capable of when they hold the reins of power.”
Is Emily saying that Jews aren't, prodominantly... er... white?
Hmmm I get the feeling “Emily” is not being a bit mischievious and not altogether honest. In Emily's quote below the racists on the above site would just substitute the word “white” with the word “Jew”;
"When I teach my students about human rights, critical race theory, and the role of whites in worldwide oppression, my white students often ask me how they can “atone” for the evils of whiteness and how they can make up for centuries of white oppression. And I tell them: you can do that by not having any children and ensuring that the white race does not live to oppress anyone ever again in the future.”
Ultimately both sites offer some kind of all-out race war as a final solution. No thanks.
btw the Tim Wise who Emily refers to in her piece as a “great anti-racist activist” offers an insight into the Jew/White puzzle;
About the two links in his comment ftp asked;
“Which one do you think would best encourage readers to join in the self-reflection and pondering there own role in moving towards a better world?”
Jessica Breakey's piece with comments by Heather, Muzzie and Christelle, in the second link is interesting as it throws in yet another viewpoint. The commenter Muzzie, who is African Zulu(?), shares the blame for oppression between Whites and Jews, throwing a spanner in Emily Goldstein's “Oppression - Whites Only” blame game.
It's difficult to engage with the polemical pilpulism of the racists. I think Heather(below) goes some way to answer your question ftp, but it's the Privilege that's the problem not the Whiteness me thinks;
“How do we walk in one another’s shoes? We listen rather than giving our opinions, we really try to understand. We are humble rather than arrogant. But really understanding means we have to give up our position of power and recognise that we are one, and we have different histories. One as a member of the oppressor culture and one as someone who has been oppressed. We are called to get real and come from our hearts, whatever that takes, to bring healing and reconciliation. The habitual patterns run deep and we need to dig deeply into our assumptions and attitudes to get to know ourselves and recognize how we take White privilege for granted. Then our hearts will open and our minds will become still and we will ask for forgiveness and help in better understanding others. This is a global phenomenon, people are saying ‘enough’! And it is about time.”
Lilith
the ideal real deal
28.05.2015 23:54
Good comment.
“the postmodern postcolonial ideology Bahar Mustafa and others like her promote is basically stupid.”
Bahar's got a couple of degrees in Gender and Media Studies, she can't be that stupid?
Lilith
dear lilith
29.05.2015 06:39
I don't think she is stupid. I never said such a thing. if you can read, you should have realized that. but to make it clear:
I said i think that her ideology is stupid. Her IDEOLOGY/PHILOSOPHY is stupid. Not her. there are many other young student activists with the same ideology and way of speaking as her. they are not stupid either, but their ideology is, in my opinion. it sounds all rather fake and contrived to me, middle class students trying to convince themselves and the whole world they are somehow oppressed. I really doubt it.
there are large parts of anarchism that i also think are stupid, frankly.
hope that is clearer altho i thought it was perfectly clear before. altho i suspect you deliberately want to be offendended and deliberately misunderstand what is perfectly clear in the first place.
the way to tackle racism is not the way she did. if anything, she has singlehandedly helped white supremacy without meaning to.
the ideology which is believe is stupid is postcolonial and poststructural philosophy, at least when it is applied to activism.
not every ethnic minority person wants to portray themselves as the ultimate victim all the time. its tedious after a while.
beaner
unwitting executioners and privileged patsies?
29.05.2015 09:24
“I don't think she is stupid... I said i think that her ideology is stupid.”
Apologies yes you are correct. I made a cheap joke and misrepresented what you had written.
“it sounds all rather fake and contrived to me, middle class students trying to convince themselves and the whole world they are somehow oppressed.”
I couldn't be sure all those students in ftp's video link are middle class, though I'd take a guess that the ringleaders are. Why do you think middle class students in particular are contriving such fakery? To what ends? Here's the link again;
“there are large parts of anarchism that i also think are stupid, frankly.”
Are you referring to the prevalent culture or/and ideology or something else. If you have time please share your thoughts and observations, they will be appreciated.
“altho i suspect you deliberately want to be offendended and deliberately misunderstand...”
Er steady on, I didn't say I was offended, and I'm not. It would take more than a mixed up middle class student spouting intersectional idioms to upset me. My concerns are where this is leading. As referenced in the article this intersectionalist ideology is resulting in physical attacks, imo, on innocent people within the movement and creating yet more unnecessary division.
“she has singlehandedly helped white supremacy without meaning to.”
Yes it appears so. What did you reckon to the Emily Goldstein article echoing Bahar's #KillAllWhiteMen twitting?
“not every ethnic minority person wants to portray themselves as the ultimate victim all the time.”
For sure.
Cheers
Lilith
On intelligent people adopting dumb ideologies ........
29.05.2015 09:44
And what happens to those who are critical of the praxis of intersectionalism?
freethepeeps
Homepage:
www.saferspaces.exposed
ok
29.05.2015 12:54
i think we're on the same page, a minor misunderstanding on my part, sorry, it happens.
i don't want to start a criticise anarchism thread, but i find some of the claims put forward by anarchists unrealistic to an amazing degree, i really don't know why anyone would take them seriously. Not all anarchist claims,not by all anarchists. just go to any demonstration, and speak to the so called black bloc about their ideas. i have, and i can see there is a lot of stupidity, fakeness, sometimes anarchists provoking the police and getting arrested on purpose so to prove their victim status etc etc.
beaner
white privilege
29.05.2015 16:16
reviser
priti patel tory
29.05.2015 21:39
nibbler
victims verses violence
29.05.2015 22:55
“i don't want to start a criticise anarchism thread...”
Why not? It's still on topic considering the main protagonist, Bahar Mustafa, is pictured wearing a “Violent Anarchists For Communism” t-shirt.
Your black bloc point;
“...i can see there is a lot of stupidity, fakeness, sometimes anarchists provoking the police and getting arrested on purpose so to prove their victim status etc etc.”
is also relevant since that self-serving mis-guided tactic used by some bb'ers mirrors that of the intersectionalist middle class wannabes.
Here's an amusing view, 14mins long;
Lilith
the answer my friend
29.05.2015 23:01
does it exist or not? Ask this guy -
Don't see how the editors here can be bothered by their hero being praised by his compatriot.
inspecta trifeca
"Does it exist or not"
30.05.2015 07:02
"Don't see how the editors here can be bothered by their hero being praised by his compatriot."
Your stupidity knows no bounds.
I've already given you a link to the article I wrote called 'Me, Gilad Atzmon and the Truth"
But you're not capable of reading it and understanding it.
Gilad's articles do not appear on this site, and nor do David Dukes.
And nor do your rabid, hateful witterings...........
freethepeeps
Regardless of whether you support Black Bloc tactics or not .....
30.05.2015 07:14
freethepeeps
Homepage:
http://athugsreflections.tumblr.com/post/118944037450/anarchist-thugs-respond-a-word-about-saturdays
@freethepeeps
30.05.2015 08:41
i don't have much of a problem with either black bloc or bahar mustafa. however, i find much of the black bloc to be posturing, and their demands unrealistic. but they are not the enemy any more than bahar. as a tactic it was ok when it was new, but it is now a 'known quantity'. altho some bb complain about A to B marches, they propose nothing better.
beaner
bahar is sexy
08.06.2015 21:14
Demo
Codswallop
18.06.2015 17:57
“Therefore, women of colour and minority genders cannot be racist or sexist, since we do not stand to benefit from such a system.”
What a load of sh**e. Firstly, I am white - and happy to be white --> deal with it.
Secondly, I am not racist. I am an individual who happens to be white.
So, if this b*tch came up to me and started being racist to me, and then claimed that she "cannot be racist" because she is a minority woman. I would lay her out there and then.
Racism is racism. It is a behaviour. It is not 1 colour onto another colour.
She is a disgusting racist.
Also, I object to the phrase "Kill all white men". Mainly, because I dont want to be killed.
I will fight anyone who tries to kill me with my last breathe if I have to. Killing people is murder. And threatening to kill people is a death threat. No buts. No "well im a minority woman" sh*te. No excuses. I dont CARE that you are a minority woman. I couldn't give a sh*t. But, if you come up to me and start threatening me like that I will lay you out.
speaking as a white man
furthermore....
18.06.2015 19:31
She can be racist. Whereas, white people cannot.
It appears to be social acceptable for minority people to be racist, but against the law for white people to.
speaking as a white man
God i hate that woman
20.06.2015 20:47
just saying
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