a bit more than holocaust denial
author by Etherpublication date Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:29Report this post to the editors

Some brief research brings info on his popularity amongst modern day fascist for his very positive writting about hitler and the pro nazi stance of much of his work. Along with many critisms of 'facts' that are unfounded, misused or just fabricated where needed to fit his pro-nazi interpretation of hisory.

Why not listen first ?
author by Troll watchpublication date Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:41Report this post to the editors

Before people condemn this historian why not take the time to attend the lecture and listen first ?

Has it been considered his work may have a relevance in the Zionist dominated world we now inhabit ?

Related Link:  http://www.deliberation.info/israels-other-occupied-ter...ories
Not welcome ?
author by Troll watchpublication date Sat Aug 10, 2013 14:50Report this post to the editors

I see that giving people a chance to make their own minds up after listening to one of the world class thinkers and historians talking about the current European and US Jewish question is also not welcome.

What else are Bindy readers not allowed to make their own minds up about ?

What do the Zionists here fear he will say ?
Jewish question
author by Keen to know morepublication date Sun Aug 11, 2013 20:38Report this post to the editors

Could you tell us more about this "current European and US Jewish question " that you seem so concerned about.

I understand from reading some of your posts on Indy UK that Jews are very much a pet subject of yours
The world Jewish influence
author by Trollwatchpublication date Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:18Report this post to the editors

I will take you as your word and assume you really are interested in knowing more about the level of Jewish influence in all areas of life within Europe and the United States. A good place to start is here  http://www.deliberation.info/israels-other-occupied-ter...ries/ but there are many other websites that can help you.

Remember however that as soon as you start researching this subject, as well as many of the lies and myths surrounding what we are told we must call 'the holocaust' you will be exposed to the full force of the Zionist machine that exists in this country. Indymedia UK comes under daily attack from their agents as we try to expose the truth about their attempts to influence thinking here.
Trollwatch=FTP
author by FTP Watchpublication date Mon Aug 12, 2013 14:36Report this post to the editors

Dear Mods

Trollwatch is FTP - a banned user.

Proof here from the UK indy moderation list:  https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/201....html

"And in any case there's doubt about it being our troll, the first comment
claims to come from 'freethepeeps' - the second comment from trollwatch is
the one that REALLY is from freethepeeps :-D

Bristol you guys are more than welcome to the wanker

cheers

ftp"

Why are you still allowing Roy Bard/FTP to still post his antisemitic shite that essentially destroyed UKIM?

PS, to FTP, go away. You are not wanted here. Your continual posting is far closer to trolling than the posts which you accused of being trolls.
FTP, fuck off
author by TTpublication date Mon Aug 12, 2013 15:30Report this post to the editors

Nothing else to say - just fuck off
Lies and more lies
author by Troll watchpublication date Mon Aug 12, 2013 16:44Report this post to the editors

Who I am and what else I do is irrelevant to this thread which is about a world class historian and writer being denied a voice because some Zionists are shouting 'holocaust denier" as a way to prevent freedom of speech.
Really, FTP
author by FTP watchpublication date Mon Aug 12, 2013 20:16Report this post to the editors

"Freedom of speech" cries FTP who spends his life constantly hiding any posts that disagree with his anti-semitism.

FTP believes anyone who thinks Irving is pillock must be a Zionist.

No, FTP, I'm not a Zionist. I am a realist. I don't like people who believe that only 30,000 people died at Auschwitz and all of natural causes. Neither do I like people who think that the holocaust" was a myth invented by the UK government - in the same way as I don't like people who think that the murder of Lee Rigby was a false flag attack.

Mostly, FTP, what I don't like is horrible little anti-semites from south africa who, given that they aren't allowed to hate black people any more, decide to have a go at the Jews.

What you are and what you do are perfectly relevant - given that you are a renowned anti-semite who hides any posts that might in some way be seen as anti-Palestine or pro Israel.

A change of name does not change the person underneath. Go away.
Other interesting reading, article by David Rovics
author by Trollwatchpublication date Tue Aug 13, 2013 13:56Report this post to the editors

I've been on a concert tour in Europe, so far mostly in Great Britain, for the past month or so. There's nothing like being on tour to connect on a personal, face-to-face level with society, or at least the little subsets of society who come to my shows. Being a songwriter who writes songs about the Palestinian struggle, among other subjects, many of my shows around the world are organized by Palestine solidarity activists of one kind or another. Before the tour began I was getting occasional emails from people asking me whether I wanted to add my name to a group denunciation of jazz musician, blogger and author Gilad Atzmon. Denounce him for what, I asked. For being an anti-Semite, they replied. I'd then ask them to send me what he wrote that they found offensive, which they would then do (sometimes accompanied by an introductory essay explaining the distinction between anti-Zionsim and anti-Semitism). I'd then read every word, and each time, I'd fail to find the anti-Semitic bit. Then, ten days into my tour, the US Palestinian Community Network published a "Disavowal of the Racism and Antisemitism of Gilad Atzmon." Several of the signatories include Palestinian intellectuals and activists I know and admire.

Before and especially after their denunciation of Atzmon was published, several of my gigs in England and Scotland have included people handing out printed copies of the disavowal and telling me and other people in no uncertain terms that Atzmon is an anti-Semite, may be a Mossad agent, and may be (or is, depending on who you ask) a holocaust denier. ("Which holocaust" is not an appropriate question, so don't even think about asking. Just the question alone is enough to get you accused of being a denier in some quarters.)

Well, all the attention Atzmon was getting prompted me to fork up $9.99 for my first electronic book (and I'm very thankful that something got me to read a book again, as somehow or other it's been ages). I'm not a scholar, but I am an avid student of history and politics, and I thought Atzmon's book, The Wandering Who?, was a very thought-provoking read. There weren't any particularly new ideas in it, but it was a very well-organized, well-articulated, contemporary and at times, humorous 200-page analysis of Jewish identity.

From the outset, Atzmon makes it clear that his criticism of various aspects of Jewish tribal identity(s) for the past couple millenia is not aimed at the many people who happen to be born Jewish, but to what he identifies as "third category" Jews – Jews who identify primarily as Jewish, first and foremost. Growing up in the New York area with my eyes open and being of Jewish lineage myself, it is not hard to see that this third category exists, and in abundance, so it's also not hard to see why it's such an interesting subject to write a book about.

A cursory glance at history tells me that narrow tribal identity politics usually suck. Whether it's people defining themselves in terms of their nation, their region, their ethnicity, their football team, their religion, if people have convinced themselves that they're better than you, watch out. What Atzmon is doing here is deconstructing (to use a word he probably doesn't like) Jewish identity politics, specifically. He is not analyzing or denouncing tribalism in general, I assume because you gotta stop somewhere, but maybe he has other reasons, like just wanting to stick to the point, or perhaps a little bit of self-preservation.

Why, then, is Atzmon's intellectual exercise here getting both the Anti-Defamation League and even various good activists so riled up? Well, for different reasons, depending on who's feeling riled. In the case of people involved with Palestine solidarity in one form or another, I'd say it is not Atzmon's non-existent hatred of Jews that is the problem here. It is the fact that, in his position as an accomplished jazz musician and writer, he keeps talking about his views and upsetting people who identify with other narratives of Jewish religion, history and identity than Atzmon's. Some of these people he's pissing off include Jews and others who are involved with the movement to boycott Israeli products, etc. Because he's pissing them off, it doesn't really matter whether he's right, he should just shut up and stop rocking the boat, because he's distracting people from the very worthy cause of Palestinian self-determination.

Now there's where I can sympathize with Atzmon's detractors. There is, I'm sure, great strategic value in as united a front as possible. I'm not an organizer – just a musical cheerleader – so I don't know much first-hand about building a solid movement and that sort of thing, and I'm sure it's extremely difficult. I'm also sure it's extremely necessary. But as someone who has been studying history and politics for many decades, I have to say that Atzmon is only saying the things that so many people already know, and I, for one, am not going to pretend otherwise because shunning someone for stating the self-evident is more convenient for the movement in the short-term. If he is to be shunned for being unnecessarily divisive, or for having too dark a sense of humor, or for being overly confrontational or critical, fine, shun away. But if he is to be shunned because he is an anti-Semite, no, that's just nonsense.

I'm not going to lay out Atzmon's whole thing here. If you're curious, read the book – at least read the first two chapters before you decide to join in the shunning. But as a big fan of world history and the similarities and differences between the development of different societies over the millenia, as I was reading his book I kept thinking of other examples of tribal identity politics through the ages. One of the things I love about the US, despite a perennially despicable government committing one holocaust after another – the African holocaust, the Native American holocaust, the Korea holocaust, the Vietnam holocaust, not to mention the German and Japanese holocausts committed by the USAF – and despite all the efforts of racist pricks in power who do their best to maintain all sorts of divisions within American society – in the end, the US is full of hopelessly assimilated mutts like myself. It is, in fact, to no small extent, a melting pot, and although the bigotry that often is one of the factors that leads to assimilation must certainly be condemned, the fact that the country is full of people who, like me, can trace their ancestry to at least a dozen countries, tribes and historic religious affiliations, is a beautiful thing. It leaves many of us, especially those of us living comfortable lives, who are broadly accepted as part of a given society, perplexed by tribalism. For us assimilated types it doesn't come naturally, and if it is to exist it must be very purposefully ingrained. (Which is why the ADL hates Atzmon – he's interfering with the ingraining process with his book.)

I kept wondering, as I was reading Atzmon's book, what would reactions of the general public be like to a similarly critical deconstruction of Catholic religion and tribal identity? I suspect such a book would be taken very differently depending on the locale -- depending on whether you live in a place where Catholics are disproportionately living in poverty or faced with discrimination, or have been in such a position in living memory, such as Northern Ireland, as opposed to places like the US or the other 26 counties of Ireland. For example, I have never met anyone living in Belfast who would refer to themselves as a "recovering Catholic." Despite the efforts of the historically oppressed Catholic community in the northern six counties to distance themselves from the Catholic tribal identity and embrace a more inclusive, Republican identity (Protestants welcome!), the effect of centuries of anti-Catholic discrimination and oppression has left people with a much stronger attachment to their Catholic identity than most Catholics would tend to have in the Republic of Ireland or in the United States, where you will often meet people who, when asked if they grew up in a religious family or some other such question, will define themselves as a "recovering Catholic."

Most people immediately understand what is meant by "recovering Catholic." The emphasis may vary depending on the person and what their experiences were like, but most likely anyone "recovering" from being a Catholic is trying to recover from growing up in an atmosphere where they were led to believe that sex is bad, everyone else who doesn't believe the way we do is going to hell and should therefore be converted to my religion, abortion is a sin, homosexuality is a sin, etc. Yet if someone were to describe themselves as a "recovering Jew," in many cases the room would become uncomfortably quiet, I imagine, as people gradually walk away from the offending party, lest they be accused of anti-Semitism by standing too close. Except in Brooklyn or Tel Aviv, where being Jewish is quite normal and unexotic, and where most people would understand immediately (whether or not they like it) that this person is recovering from growing up in an environment where everyone who wasn't Jewish was a goy and was not to be trusted and was a closet anti-Semite, where you shouldn't marry a goy, where you're always either too Jewish or not Jewish enough, where you're a failure for not being a doctor or a lawyer, where you're part of a Chosen group of people and you're better than others, but don't say that in public or they'll say you poisoned the wells, etc.

Sticking with the Catholic example here, though, reading the "debate" (if you can call attack and counter-attack a debate) between Atzmon's detractors and supporters (some of whom appear to be lunatics), I was thinking about what a friend in West Belfast was telling me about some things that happened back in the day, during the Troubles. The IRA was, like so many movements, full of inevitable contradictions. So much of the Republican movement had a distinctly socialist orientation, and elements of the Republican movement were very critical of the Catholic church presently and historically, including even critical of the church's stance on abortion and many other still-sensitive issues among many people of Catholic origin there and around the world. But much of the IRA's funding came from Irish-American supporters in the US, who were often otherwise fairly conservative politically and socially as well. So the IRA's socialist message and anyone associated with the Republican movement who was speaking out in support of legalizing abortion was seen as an obstacle to the Republican movement, even if many people quietly agreed with the dissenters.

Many people have made relevant comparisons between the global movement in support of Palestinian self-determination and the global movement in support of Irish Republicanism. There are many more relevant comparisons to be made, and I'd venture to say that this is another of them. In both cases, with the various dissenters within the anti-Zionist movement and the Irish Republican movement, I really do sympathize with both the dissenters and the "united front." I understand that strategic unity is vital for any successful movement. But I also understand that honest debate, freedom of expression, and critical analysis of everything – very much including Jewish identity politics – is also vitally important. I hope that a unity of purpose can be maintained even with such substantive differences in our various understandings of reality and history. Moreover, I hope that Atzmon's honest efforts to disentangle the whole question of Jewishness will lead other people from other tribal backgrounds to do more of the same. And I hope that more people will read his book before they feel the need to call him an anti-Semite.
Holocaust denial
author by Trollwatchpublication date Tue Aug 13, 2013 14:16Report this post to the editors

How can one deny what is obviously a fake. A part here of the report during David's recent visit to Auschwitz, what we are told is a 'death camp'

-----------------------

But the new Holocaust-industry version of this site does not match the simple history, horrific though it is.

The site was windswept and deserted and bleak then and it has not changed much now -- except in details which do seem new.

It is now all very glitzy and glossy. Last time I was here, in March 2007, I did not remember seeing the well-built dogtooth pattern footpaths, or the plaques etched with descriptions and images into expensive stainless steel, posted near each item of interest. They are new. I was last here four years ago with Alan Heath, a good expert on these sites.

The first building encountered is the massive crematorium, with its tall single chimney dominating the whole area. Inside the gloomy wooden building, illuminated now only by dim 40 watt bulbs (of the new energy-efficient variety of course), stand the six iron crematory furnaces in their brick casing. The building occupies many rooms and is dark and gloomy.

Odd, the 1944 photos I have seen show these furnaces in the open, being inspected by Russian troops, not enclosed in a building at all. (In fact this whole building is a fake, put up in post-war years.)

I am put at once on the alert. Not sceptical, because to be even mildly sceptical in countries with "Holocaust-denial" laws is now a criminal offence. As we leave the building I notice a crew of plasterers and bricklayers busy constructing something else -- I could not see what, but judging by the stack of cement bags it appears to be quite big.

The creosoted wooden watchtowers arouse our curiosity too. They differ in design from the authentic watchtowers displayed on the wartime photos. More dummies, it seems -- meaning the towers, not the tourists who come from all over the world to tread these well-paved pathways now.

I would guess that several million dollars have been spent on this Majdanek complex since I last saw it. And I thought from the recent news items that the Reinhardt camps had run out of cash -- the Sobibor museum closing, etc. What's going on?

Graham G came here last year, after our last tour of the Nazi sites. Today I find myself repeatedly asking him, "Was this here last year? And this?" -- pointing to new exhibits, walkways, glass doors, turnstile barriers, and the like. In each case the answer is no, these are things that have been installed here in the last twelve months.

The biggest shocks are in the final building, Number 42, identified on the plans as the male showers, fumigation plant, and "gas chambers". I have to be careful here, because I am not a Holocaust denier.

I already drew attention in my March 2007 Radical's Diary to the dark blue-black stains on and right through various walls in the building -- clearly Prussian Blue, visible as cyanide compounds even without carrying out Fred-Leuchter type lab. tests. There was no reference to them in the few amateurish signs posted here four years ago.

Now there are expensive signs on glass panels in three languages, English, Polish and Hebrew, depicting these rooms -- not as gas chambers, but as fumigation chambers for clothing and the like. There is a new room with racks of brand new cans of Zyklon B cyanide-impregnated pellets, the deadly substance used for the disinfestation. Here (unlike the Soviet propaganda information fed to the Illustrated London News, August 1944, which is also on display on the site) it is made plain that the killing agent used for prisoners was not Zyklon B but "carbon-monoxide" fed into the gas chamber from cylinders in the next door room.

Ah, that explains it. I saw those two cylinders chained to the wall two years ago, but noticed at that time that the pipes going through the wall were not connected, and had quite freshly been cemented into place. The "gas chamber" room is now cordoned off, with a glass door preventing entry. All rather modern and cathedral-like. The room has a thin window half way along one wall, above shoulder height.

Hugo H-T says rather blasphemously, "If I were a prisoner, I think I'd ask for the window seat."

What kind of gas chamber has a glass window in it, indeed?

True, there are steel gas-tight doors installed at either end of this chamber, as with the other fumigation chamber too. They are standard German Luftschutz-issue air-raid shelter doors, added to the building evidently as an afterthought, just as in Krema II at Auschwitz after our bomber squadrons began reaching into Poland. The doors are installed to open outwards, and to close flush onto their exterior gastight flange as in all air raid shelters, just as Neufert defined: Neufert is the standard SS building-code manual which I introduced as evidence at the Lipstadt trial.

These doors are also equipped with standard gas-detector tubes. Moreover, all these gas-tight doors have their handles on the inside of the door. That's handy. I think I would have passed on the window seat, and moved to a seat near the exits instead. "Doors to manual, Herr Sturmführer!" Handles? I didn't have that agreeable facility on the inside of my cell door in the Vienna jail 2005-2006.

As for the gas cylinders in the little room next to the big room designated "gas chamber" by the new tourist-friendly Majdanek management -- well, to coin a contemporary phrase, Houston we have a Problem. The gas cylinders in the darkened room are clearly not carbon-monoxide, as stated on the expensive glass descriptive panels, but stamped "CO2," carbon-dioxide, which is not lethal. Oh, and they are still not connected to the room.

Disgusting
author by cunt watchpublication date Tue Aug 13, 2013 16:34Report this post to the editors

FTP, you have reached a new low.
Yeah I've been to Auschwitz too
author by ftp watchpublication date Tue Aug 13, 2013 20:49Report this post to the editors

The first time was 25 years ago on a school trip. The last time was 2011. And guess what, I'm not a Jew.

What you post is lies.

You disgust me.

The ironic thing is that I am one of the most criticised posters on BIM. But yet most Bindy readers will agree with me (I hope) when I say fuck of you disgusting antisemitic piece of detrtitus.

Cheers.

DW
Bristroll of the day part 17
author by More clone trolling and lies on Bindypublication date Wed Aug 14, 2013 07:45Report this post to the editors

Moderator aka Trollwatch or F.T.P post antisemitic nonsens e in Bristol
indy (511911)
by DW - inaccurate

I have not posted on that thread - so it is yet more clone trolling which
is allowed by Bindy mods - as they will be aware that I reported a
previous comment - noting that wasn't by me and was clearly intended to
appear as if it was. It was subsequently hidden.
( http://bristol.indymedia.org/hidden_articles.php?cview=...61333)

So the whole thread is based on someone impersonating me - clone trolling
with the assistance of Bindy mods

What a nasty world the Bindy mods are working to create.....

(So, the report of the first comment was my first intervention on this thread - and this email to uk and Britol IMCs was my second. I have no interest in David Irving whatsoever..... Bindy mods need to get rid of the whole discussion as it is simply a misuse of their comments function)
Why is this man still involved with Indymedia ?
author by Incredulouspublication date Wed Aug 14, 2013 08:01Report this post to the editors

I find it incredible that an individual who has views like these is allowed by the other collective members to still be involved with Indymedia. The entire Indymedia project makes clear its position on racism of all kinds.

It's not as though he even hides in antisemitism anymore or try to pretend he has not crossed the line between anti zionism and antisemitism.

Other Indymedia moderators need to exclude him from the project with immediate effect.
The game plan revealed
author by Bristol Indymedia as a tool for foolspublication date Wed Aug 14, 2013 09:56Report this post to the editors

"Other Indymedia moderators need to exclude him from the project with immediate effect. "

So, a troll or trolls just need to post stuff about him and then he should be expunged?

The way to discuss the matter is to contact the collective that admins IMC uk and discuss it with them.

Not to allow guideline busting threads on Bindy.
Getting like the Daily Mail
author by Missing the real issues.publication date Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:02Report this post to the editors

These days everything on here seems to be about personalities...
No platform for racists. Full Stop
author by Doesn't like racist wankers in Indypublication date Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:04Report this post to the editors

"So, a troll or trolls just need to post stuff about him and then he should be expunged?"

The point that you have worked hard to miss is that this is nothing to do with any trolls but is related to a long history of antisemitic writing by an Indymedia moderator streaching back some years. Now that Indymedia UK is now more or less dead and Bristol is the only thriving Indymedia site in the country he has come here to spread his message.

If you really do think this is about trolling then I suggest you take a look at the website that FTP linked to in his comment here, a website he co-founded and which he is still a regular contributor to. He was written here defending a talk from David Irvine a Nazi who denies the Holocaust, he defended the right of another antisemite to post on Indymedia that caused two other moderators to leave the collective. He is recognised by those of us who have worked with him as an antisemite.

I make it a point not to work with antisemitic racists and I assume other Indymedia moderators do the same and as such there is a call for him to be banned not just from Bindy but from the UK Indymedia project. If the things he had written about Jews had been written about black or asian people we would not be having this conversation, the wanker would be gone.

On a related point it is my view that he is also one of the main reasons why Indymedia UK is now a shadow of the site it once was and has reached a level of contribution that means it is all but ignored in the UK activist scene.
RE - "Bristroll of the day part 17"
author by LoLpublication date Wed Aug 14, 2013 13:27Report this post to the editors

Things a little quiet over at Indy UK are they Roy ?
.

Your policy of hiding all the posts and comments that you disagree with driven everyone away has it Roy ?
.

Having to visit bindy to fullfil your need to order people around are you Roy ?

LOL

The Mayday way
author by Long memorypublication date Wed Aug 14, 2013 13:32Report this post to the editors

ftp wrote (using another name),

"The way to discuss the matter is to contact the collective that admins IMC uk and discuss it with them."

Do I need to remind you that the site you admin is not "IMC uk" it is a newswire using the Indymedia name because you and Chris from Sheffield stole the URL from the uk collective that included many of the Bristol collective. How likely are they to want to discuss anything with people like you ?

I expect they prefer to deal only with real Indymedia collectives.
Diversions and distractions
author by Trollwatchpublication date Wed Aug 14, 2013 14:55Report this post to the editors

I see the Zionists are following their standard playbook in trying to divert attention from the important lecture by attacking me again.

The more important point here is to ensure that Bindy readers are able to make their own minds up about David Irving and his lecture on August 21st.

Perhaps they might wish to hear him talk and make their own minds up about the story we are all told we must believe regarding the work camps of WW2 in Germany, why questioning any part of the official narrative can result in prosecution in Germany and Austria or why the author of over 30 books is not considered a person worthy of listening to. In the words of the military writer John Keegan: 'No historian of the Second World War can afford to ignore Irving.' Few contemporary scholars of the Third Reich have his depth of knowledge, virtually none has met as many of its leading figures and nobody, surely, has unearthed more original material--a private archive known as the 'Irving Collection,' always generously made available to other researchers, which weighs more than half a ton."

Shouting down the voices of radical thought has long been a Zionist tactic which I have seen in Palestine and the Occupied territories first hand. Will the Bindy mods allow it to be used here I wonder.
"work camps"
author by Mepublication date Thu Aug 15, 2013 13:06Report this post to the editors

FTP says: "make their own minds up about the story we are all told we must believe regarding the work camps of WW2 in Germany"

A couple of key words jump out:

1) "Story" implying that FTP believes it is make believe
2) "work camps" rather than concentration camps implying that FTP believes that the inmates were simply being put to work rather than routinely exterminated.

Sickening.
Good try
author by Trollwatchpublication date Thu Aug 15, 2013 14:31Report this post to the editors

I have no idea what happened during the Second world War at the camps run by the Nazis and neither do you. What we have is a number of claims from various groups some of which are making money from one view being the dominant one and in cases using that collective Western guilt to excuse the actions of Israel.

If as some people claim the events of the Second World War are so clear, documented and agreed then anybody offering an alternative viewpoint will quickly be shown to be wrong, don't you agree ? Of course it may be possible that the story we have all been told since 1948 is a crock of shit that serves the needs of Zionism, let's listen to alternative viewpoints and make our minds up without being told what we must all think and believe by Jewish owned media organisations.

Crossing the line
author by Greatgrandson of a Holocaust survivorpublication date Thu Aug 15, 2013 15:16Report this post to the editors

That six million Jews died in the Sho'ah , along with many others who were not Jewish is not in doubt. The death camps are an accepted fact not a viewpoint. Of the nine million Jews who had resided in Europe before the Holocaust, approximately two-thirds were killed. Over one million Jewish children were killed in the Holocaust, as were approximately two million Jewish women and three million Jewish men. A network of over 40,000 facilities in Germany and German-occupied territory were used to concentrate, hold, and kill Jews and other victims.

David Irving is a liar, a fool, an antisemite and not even a very good historian or writer. Perhaps what is more shocking is that an Indymedia moderator and member of the UK collective is prepared to defend him and encourage people to listen to his views. I have no idea what Indymedia has become when people who hold views like that are tolerated in the organisation.
The mythical "six million"
author by Trollwatchpublication date Thu Aug 15, 2013 17:58Report this post to the editors

The ever faithful six million number that we are told we all must accept.

There were about only 3 million Jews in the Third Reich, so where did the other 3 million come from?

Why when they tested the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz there was little to no traces of Zyklon B, but why in the buildings where they cleaned the Jews of lice there are high traces of Zyklon B?

The amount of gas needed, supplies, people, and time, that would be needed to gas all those people is highly unlikely especially during the war. How would the Jews know if there were gas chambers, if everyone died who were in it, and the Germans tried to hide them?

The pictures of dead Jews, show Jews who died from starvation, because food was short deep in the war, and they were not considered citizens so they weren't fed.

Why is it illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany if they werent trying to hide anything?

Also the Auschwitz "gas chamber" was changed when the Red Army took it over, it use to have a wall to divide it, they took it down, and put hatches on the time.The doors in the "chambers" were also not sealed, so how would it work?

So those are the facts, did 6 million really die?

Anyone can call themselves anything they like on Bindymedia
by Trollwatch Thu Aug 15, 2013 19:47
Is Bindymedia so shite that even the mods cant be arsed to read it?
@Trollwatch
by Ed Thu Aug 15, 2013 21:03
If you dont like it, then why don't you create an alternative some-place else?
correction
by Greatgrandson of a Holocaust survivor Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:42
When I wrote that:

"Perhaps what is more shocking is that an Indymedia moderator and member of the UK collective is prepared to defend him and encourage people to listen to his views"

I was fully aware that only a troll pretending to be those things has done anything of the sort.

Just so we're all clear on that.
Re Correction
by H Fri Aug 16, 2013 15:09
A new low there FTP, abusing the grandson of a holocaust survivor. I expect in your mind he was no such thing because there was no Holocaust

Tosser
Clearing the matter up
by IMC Vol Fri Aug 16, 2013 17:16
ftp,

You have alleged here and on the site using the Indymedia uk name that posts are being out up as though from you.

To help end this current thread would you please confirm the following and provide a link to your site so we know it is from you.

1 You believe the Holocaust took place as it is generally understood by the European population.

2 In that Holocaust six million innocent Jews died

3 David Irving is an antisemite who no true progressive should have anything to do with.

Simple Yes or No replies will be fine not your usual obfuscation.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Questions
by ftp Fri Aug 16, 2013 18:47
ftp,

You have alleged here and on the site using the Indymedia uk name that posts are being out up as though from you.

- I have been consistently impersonated by the 2Sam troll on this site

To help end this current thread would you please confirm the following and provide a link to your site so we know it is from

- the link is below. It leads to our open list, something that Bindy could do well to adopt

1 You believe the Holocaust took place as it is generally understood by the European population.

- I have no idea how the event referred to by some as the holocaust is understood by the European population

2 In that Holocaust six million innocent Jews died
- I have no idea how many people of any religion died

3 David Irving is an antisemite who no true progressive should have anything to do with.

- he is a historian who offers a viewpoint different to others. I see nothing wrong in listening to what he has to say
Related Link:  https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/201....html
@"IMC Vol"
by Troll clones in operation Fri Aug 16, 2013 19:11
Clearly, anyone can post an answer claiming to be FTP. so why not email the question to FTP whose email address is known you? Then he will know you are an " IMC Vol " and you will know that he is FTP?

PS remember this?
______________________________________________________________________________________

Comments moderating
category bristol | miscellaneous | announcement author Wednesday July 03, 2013 19:54author by Imcvol Report this post to the editors

The Bristol Indymedia Collective is now taking a much harder stance on comment moderation due to the trolling and pettiness on the website at present. So the following will now apply:

If the comment does not add to the information in the article it will be hidden.

If the comment is abusive to other commentators then it will be hidden even if it contains more information related to the article.

So if you wish to respond to the post then make it reasoned and respectful and ignore those comments which aren't, they will be hidden at some point.

We are also developing a new improved site that will have a different comments system that will allow us manage the commenting system in a much better way. We are not able to answer emails very quickly at present so please be patient, but again we will not be responding to disrespectful emails.

Thanks to all the people who are still using the site, we hope this temporary array of abuse hasn't put you off.

The Bristol Indymedia collective.
 http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/765751
_______________________________________________________
Related Link:  http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/765751
@ by Troll clones in operation
by Bristol Bill Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:08
Fully agree,

I know it is holiday time now and many of the mods are away but they do need to be more on the ball.

The regular posts and comments here from FTP with his odious views about Jews have no place in Bindy and he should be blocked. Indymedia UK fell apart because of him and the last thing we need is his brand of advice in Bindy.
@ Bristol Bill
by Troll clones in operation Sat Aug 17, 2013 14:30
You might have missed this link in all the noise:

 https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/201....html

___________________________________________________

I have not posted on that thread - so it is yet more clone trolling which
is allowed by Bindy mods - as they will be aware that I reported a
previous comment - noting that wasn't by me and was clearly intended to
appear as if it was. It was subsequently hidden.
( http://bristol.indymedia.org/hidden_articles.php?cview=...61333)

So the whole thread is based on someone impersonating me - clone trolling
with the assistance of Bindy mods

What a nasty world the Bindy mods are working to create.....

ftp
_______________________________________________
Related Link:  https://lists.indymedia.org.uk/pipermail/moderation/201....html
Sweep it up
by Basil Brush Sat Aug 17, 2013 15:23
Mods theres shit all over the carpet.........
Re Troll clones in operation
by DW Sat Aug 17, 2013 15:26
Yes I share that view, seeing how easy it has been for FTP publish his antisemitic filth in support of David Irving is very disappointing. We all agree the moderators are doing a difficult job but this is an area where they need to jump all over it as fast as possible. Indymedia UK went downhill after Atzmon was defended by FTP in the face of massive evidence and we certainly don't need him here at BINDY repeating that.
Potato Scones
by The Vegan Society Sat Aug 17, 2013 15:35
6 medium left-over boiled potatoes
Pinch of salt
Plain flour
Vegetable oil

1. Mash the potatoes with a little salt, then work in as much flour as possible. Form into very thin (about 1/2 cm/1/4 inch thick) burger-like shapes.
2. Shallow fry over a high heat in the vegetable oil until crisp and golden on both sides. Serves 4.
Related Link:  http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/food/recipes/snac....aspx
reply
by caved Sat Aug 17, 2013 15:38
I know ftp and can categorically say that he is not in the least anti-semetic
Just so you know
by Wolfgang Sat Aug 17, 2013 15:44
A number of Indian mathematicians gave rules equivalent to the quadratic formula. It is possible that certain altar constructions dating from ca. 500 BC represent solutions of the equation, but even should this be the case, there is no record of the method of solution (Smith 1953, p. 444). The Hindu mathematician Āryabhata (475 or 476-550) gave a rule for the sum of a geometric series that shows knowledge of the quadratic equations with both solutions (Smith 1951, p. 159; Smith 1953, p. 444), while Brahmagupta (ca. 628) appears to have considered only one of them (Smith 1951, p. 159; Smith 1953, pp. 444-445). Similarly, Mahāvīra (ca. 850) had substantially the modern rule for the positive root of a quadratic. Srīdhara (ca. 1025) gave the positive root of the quadratic formula, as stated by Bhāskara (ca. 1150; Smith 1953, pp. 445-446). The Persian mathematicians al-Khwārizmī (ca. 825) and Omar Khayyám (ca. 1100) also gave rules for finding the positive root.
Que
by Sierra navidad Sat Aug 17, 2013 15:48
In what way is that a "smoking gun".

It certainly shoots down all your ludicrous theories about NORAD.

I have read the whole thing, and it all makes sense, and gives a very
good explanation as to why NORAD could do very little - and never even
managed to get a fighter jet in visual contact with any of the
hijacked planes before they crashed.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Have cursor, will curse.
To reply by email, my address is alexDOTheneyATgmailDOTcom
Related Link:  http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/08/nor...00608
Leisure
by Cicero, Marcus T. Sat Aug 17, 2013 15:52
"He does not seem to me to be a free man who does not sometimes do nothing." -
Dubai to Southampton
by BBC iPlayer Sat Aug 17, 2013 15:54
The world cruise starts out on its last leg as it leaves Dubai and heads for home. After a short stop in Oman and navigating through an area infamous for its piracy, the Balmoral sails up the Suez Canal and arrives at the Mediterranean port of Alexandria in Egypt.

The Reverend Colin Still and a group of passengers make a pilgrimage to the Allied War Cemetery at El Alamein to commemorate those that fell in the battle.

On board, people come together to take part in the Country Fayre to raise money for charity, and then it is time for the end-of-cruise shows by the passengers and staff on board, as well as tearful goodbyes at the end of the four-month voyage.
Respect
by Aretha Sat Aug 17, 2013 16:07
(oo) What you want
(oo) Baby, I got
(oo) What you need
(oo) Do you know I got it?
(oo) All I'm askin'
(oo) Is for a little respect when you come home (just a little bit)
Hey baby (just a little bit) when you get home
(just a little bit) mister (just a little bit)

I ain't gonna do you wrong while you're gone
Ain't gonna do you wrong (oo) 'cause I don't wanna (oo)
All I'm askin' (oo)
Is for a little respect when you come home (just a little bit)
Baby (just a little bit) when you get home (just a little bit)
Yeah (just a little bit)

I'm about to give you all of my money
And all I'm askin' in return, honey
Is to give me my profits
When you get home (just a, just a, just a, just a)
Yeah baby (just a, just a, just a, just a)
When you get home (just a little bit)
Yeah (just a little bit)

[instrumental break]

Ooo, your kisses (oo)
Sweeter than honey (oo)
And guess what? (oo)
So is my money (oo)
All I want you to do (oo) for me
Is give it to me when you get home (re, re, re ,re)
Yeah baby (re, re, re ,re)
Whip it to me (respect, just a little bit)
When you get home, now (just a little bit)

R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Find out what it means to me
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Take care, TCB

Oh (sock it to me, sock it to me,
sock it to me, sock it to me)
A little respect (sock it to me, sock it to me,
sock it to me, sock it to me)
Whoa, babe (just a little bit)
A little respect (just a little bit)
I get tired (just a little bit)
Keep on tryin' (just a little bit)
You're runnin' out of foolin' (just a little bit)
And I ain't lyin' (just a little bit)
(re, re, re, re) 'spect
When you come home (re, re, re ,re)
Or you might walk in (respect, just a little bit)
And find out I'm gone (just a little bit)
I got to have (just a little bit)
A little respect (just a little bit)
For FTP
by . Sat Aug 17, 2013 16:08
Just go away, nobody wants you here. You fucked up IMC and we don't want you doing the same here on Bristol Indymedia.
Cecal Worms
by Heterakis gallinae Sat Aug 17, 2013 17:18
This parasite (Heterakis gallinae) is found in the ceca of chickens, turkeys and other birds.

This parasite apparently does not seriously affect the health of the bird. At least no marked symptoms or pathology can be blamed on its presence. Its main importance is that it has been incriminated as a vector of Histomonas meleagridis, the agent that causes blackhead. This protozoan parasite apparently is carried in the cecal worm egg and is transmitted from bird to bird through this egg.

The life history of this parasite is similar to that of the common roundworm. The eggs are produced in the ceca and pass in the feces. They reach the infective form in about two weeks. In cool weather, this may take longer. The eggs are very resistant to environmental conditions and will remain viable for long periods.

The cecal worm can be effectively treated with fenbendazole. Since the worm itself produces no observable damage and the eggs live for long periods, it is advisable and necessary to keep chickens and turkeys separated to prevent spread of blackhead.
Divorce And Alcoholism Battle
by Cheyenne Jackson Sat Aug 17, 2013 17:30
Actor/singer Cheyenne Jackson has opened up about the breakdown of his marriage and confirmed rumours he is seeking help for an alcohol addiction.

The Glee star stunned fans on Thursday after releasing a statement to announce he and his husband, physicist Monte Lapka, are ending their relationship after 13 years together.

In a candid radio interview on The Frank DeCaro Show on Friday, Jackson expressed his sadness about his divorce, but heaped praise on Lapka by branding him "a wonderful man".

He said, "Yeah, it is a sad thing. It's a sad thing anytime a relationship ends. We had a good long run, almost 13 years. Like (the statement) we released yesterday, it was mutual and it was amicable. He is a wonderful man. It's a sad personal thing.

"Sometimes, I guess, I'm a little naive to think that people will even care, but they do. So, you have to understand the significance that your relationship had to other people. I know that our marriage meant a lot to other people. That's not lost on me, and I respect that."

When the Broadway performer was quizzed about speculation he is attending Alcoholics Anonymous, he insisted it was "pretty f**ked up" the story had leaked but confirmed, "That happens to be true."

He explained, "You know what, I own it. I'm proud of myself. My life is great... It's sad right now because we're both going through something that's really painful, but that's life...

"I started my recovery last summer and it became something I really wanted to focus on in my life and repairing relationships in my family and such. So, this is a really, strong, beautiful time for me, personally. It also is a very sad time because I am going through a divorce."
@ For FTP
by Ben Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:43
+1

Just go away, nobody wants you here. You fucked up IMC and we don't want you doing the same here on Bristol Indymedia.


For Ben
by PFT Sun Aug 18 11:59:51 2013
FTP probably will go away when Bristol IMC mods do what they claimed they would ie "The Bristol Indymedia Collective is now taking a much harder stance on comment moderation due to the trolling and pettiness on the website at present."

These comments add little of value to the Original Post which was presumably intended to galvanise people to act against David Irving when he attempts to gived a talk on Himmler in Bristol on August 31st. None of the comments (bar this one) even pretend to be relevant to that aim . It is off course equally possible that the piece was simply placed there as a way of setting up the thread to allow a fake 'ftp' to spread nonsense.

I understand that the uk mod known as ftp is busy writing an article for the Bristol newswire addressing the problematic claims on this thread - and I would wager money that it won't stay up nearly as long as these ridiculous and petty comments have been allowed to.

If he has any sense, he will also post it to the uk site, where the Bristol mods will have no ability to remove it, and where more people are likely to read it.

Then perhaps they will understand how frustrating it is to have stuff that attacks you left up, when you don't agree with it, and can't get rid of it. They might even wish they hadn't been so tardy in dealing with it in the first place. ie when they hid other stuff on the 13th ( http://bristol.indymedia.org/hidden_articles.php?sview=...65980) and 16th ( http://bristol.indymedia.org/hidden_articles.php?sview=...66001) and posted up features on the 16th ( http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/766004 and  http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/766003)

Maybe they will even get better at living up their intentions in the future........

For PFT
author by A one time Bindy modpublication date Sun Aug 18, 2013 13:37Report this post to the editors

The issue is not what people think or believe about ftp but is related to his continued returning to Bindy telling people what to do because the one time Indymedia UK site is now ignored by most people. To many of us it seems ironic that because of his actions Indymedia UK is now defunct, deLiberation is laughed at and ignored so he comes here and tries to spead the same message of antisemitism that caused so many problems at Indymedia UK.

Bristol Indymedia is now the sole well supported Indymedia site left in the UK and one of the few in Europe that still has an active collective working to keep the site alive. The bigger discussion about the failure of the Indymedia project across the globe is to have elsewhere but without a doubt the way that ftp and others in the mayday collective allowed antisemitism to be accepted on their site contributed to the destruction of Indymedia UK and its current position in the activist mindset.

There is no place for him or his unpleasant views on Bristol Indymedia and I hope the current moderators block posts and comments from him.

Hearing that he is writing a feature on his view of Bristol indymedia is no great surprise, he is an person who likes to be heard ! If he publishes it to Indymedia UK it will be read by next to nobody, if he publishes it here it will be hidden as it deserves to be because comments about moderation policy and not discussed on the newswire. He knows that.
A lack of interest
author by Techiepublication date Sun Aug 18, 2013 13:42Report this post to the editors

Some useful idiot friend of Bard write,

"If he has any sense, he will also post it to the uk site, where the Bristol mods will have no ability to remove it, and where more people are likely to read it."

Seriously, you really think anybody still reads Iindymedia uk ? Take a look at the Google tracking numbers, on an average week the site gets less than 4 unique visitors compared to the 350 that we get here.