Central London cafe is haven for dangerous ideas
Elly Badcock | 06.03.2013 14:05 | Culture | Free Spaces | Social Struggles | London
Firebox, a political cafe in Central London, needs your help to provide events and meeting space to left-wing individuals and networks.
Crowds at our grand launch
Veteran campaigner Tony Benn has hailed King's Cross cafe Firebox as a vital centre of sedition in increasingly uncertain times.
“I think it's a very important turning point to have Firebox opening at this moment,” said Benn. “Thank you to the people who have organised it – I recognise that we're going to need Firebox a great deal in the months that lie ahead.”
Launched in October 2012, the cafe has played host to a number of high-profile campaigners including Independent columnist Owen Jones, Green Party leader and local resident Natalie Bennett and internationally renowned academic Tariq Ali.
They are now seeking to raise £5,000 to cement the cafe's reputation as a haven for progressive minds. Their appeal is currently running through Kickstarter, an all-or-nothing platform; meaning the team have only 30 days to reach their goal.
Project co-ordinator Clare Solomon said “The last six months have been incredible. We've worked with so many fantastic organisations – from the Haldane Society of Lawyers to the SockMob homelessness charity – and have had a brilliant response from the local community. Now we're looking to fund a video editing suite for local residents and groups to use. We'd also like to run new events for the community, like free progressive parenting groups. Please give generously to allow us to do this; and pop in next time you're in King's Cross!”
The appeal will run until Friday March 29th and can be accessed via the Kickstarter website -
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/809251023/firebox-politics-with-your-panini
“I think it's a very important turning point to have Firebox opening at this moment,” said Benn. “Thank you to the people who have organised it – I recognise that we're going to need Firebox a great deal in the months that lie ahead.”
Launched in October 2012, the cafe has played host to a number of high-profile campaigners including Independent columnist Owen Jones, Green Party leader and local resident Natalie Bennett and internationally renowned academic Tariq Ali.
They are now seeking to raise £5,000 to cement the cafe's reputation as a haven for progressive minds. Their appeal is currently running through Kickstarter, an all-or-nothing platform; meaning the team have only 30 days to reach their goal.
Project co-ordinator Clare Solomon said “The last six months have been incredible. We've worked with so many fantastic organisations – from the Haldane Society of Lawyers to the SockMob homelessness charity – and have had a brilliant response from the local community. Now we're looking to fund a video editing suite for local residents and groups to use. We'd also like to run new events for the community, like free progressive parenting groups. Please give generously to allow us to do this; and pop in next time you're in King's Cross!”
The appeal will run until Friday March 29th and can be accessed via the Kickstarter website -
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/809251023/firebox-politics-with-your-panini
Elly Badcock
e-mail:
elly@fireboxlondon.net
Homepage:
fireboxlondon.net
Comments
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a few awkward questions
06.03.2013 14:26
1. Cafe
-Do all staff get paid the same hourly rate?
-Do all staff get equal decision making power?
-Are there any owners or shareholders making a profit?
-Is there provision for skint folks to pay less for food?
2. Venue
-Who decides which events you agree to host?
-Who decides which events get cheaper hire rates?
-What are the cheaper hire rates?
(the standard rates seem to be out of reach of most grassroots campaigns groups)
Finally, I couldn't see answers to any of the above on your website, so would you consider publicising the answers there if they aren't already?
Just trying to get a sense of whether you put your radical politics into practice, ie how much is image and how much is substance. If you're going to be asking the movement to fund your costs, that seems reasonable.
neko
Answers to questions below
06.03.2013 15:36
1. Cafe
-Do all staff get paid the same hourly rate?
>>>>>> no of course not, those of us who funded the cafe and run it are paid more, that is how the world works
-Do all staff get equal decision making power?
>>>>> Very funny, we started the cafe, we run it.
-Are there any owners or shareholders making a profit?
>>>>> profits are how people get paid and bills get settled. That is business
-Is there provision for skint folks to pay less for food?
>>>> We will be giving away end of life food
2. Venue
-Who decides which events you agree to host?
>>>> We do of course
-Who decides which events get cheaper hire rates?
>>>> We do
-What are the cheaper hire rates?
(the standard rates seem to be out of reach of most grassroots campaigns groups)
>>>> We are open to negotiation, please contact us
Elly Badcock
e-mail:
elly@fireboxlondon.net
Homepage:
fireboxlondon.net
Hmm. Nice answers.
06.03.2013 16:32
I hope you fail. Indy is not a space to advertise your shitty little cafe and "radical thought" nor social/class struggle is not a fucking commodity to be bought and sold.
Piss off.
Lol
What?
06.03.2013 16:40
>>>>>> no of course not, those of us who funded the cafe and run it are paid more, that is how the world works
-Do all staff get equal decision making power?
>>>>> Very funny, we started the cafe, we run it.
Not quite sure what to say to this, but you really aren't doing yourself any favours with the tone of your answers to this. "How the world works?"! Capitalism is how the world works, but that's not a good thing, so justifying your wage differential in that way is pretty dumb.
So, just to clarify, you pay some people more money than others, and some people have more decision making power than others?
Sounds just like a capitalist business with a sheen of leftism to me.
Errr... possible cafe user
The bosses and the bossed
06.03.2013 16:44
pffft
Sorry you do not like us
06.03.2013 17:01
We are running this cafe in the real world where staff need to be paid, bills need to be paid and investors need to be repaid. Your 1970's hippy political thought doesn't do that.
This cafe is for those who have radical thought but live in the 21st Century.
Elly Badcock
Keep your head up
06.03.2013 17:07
Kelly
nobel arch
06.03.2013 17:35
Yet you will NEVER see an anti-capitalist setting up a business and then giving the control to the staff who didn't pay to get into the business.
>> Do all staff get paid the same hourly rate?
I would imagine a Manager (who has more stress / responsibility and general pain-in-the-arse day) would want to a higher wage than a dish-washer. Wages would relate to market rates in order to get people to work there. If they offer £5 an hour, its going to be hard to find a decent manager.
>> Do all staff get equal decision making power?
So let me get this straight. If, for example, i put up £50,000 of my own money and risk losing it all, to set up a business, you want the staff who put £0 to have the equal say in how the business works? What planet are you on?
>> Are there any owners or shareholders making a profit?
Thats generally the idea of starting a business -> to earn a living. Profit = ability to pay rent, buy food, buy school uniforms for the kids etc.
>> Is there provision for skint folks to pay less for food?
So, if they have two identical sandwiches, one is a £1 and one is £4.... which do you think the majority of customers will order? There is probably provision to pay less for food.... Its called a salad instead of a full cooked breakfast.
>> Who decides which events you agree to host?
The people who run it?
-Who decides which events get cheaper hire rates?
The people who run it?
-What are the cheaper hire rates?
Supply and demand would dictate it.
(the standard rates seem to be out of reach of most grassroots campaigns groups)
Oh dear. Well, somebody has to foot the bill to pay the rent, elec etc.
caluse
deal with it
06.03.2013 17:38
Maybe say something like:
"Well, i wouldn't do it like that.... I'm going to start a cafe on my own principals where I give the hired help control of the business to run it how they want after I've put all my hard earned money into the business."
Its their cafe. They have the right to run it the way they want.
Nobody put you in charge to dictate what other people can and can't do with their lives.
everyone has a choice what to do with their lives
Pretty clear...
06.03.2013 17:38
Mods should remove, surely?
South Coast Sab
Its A Cafe
06.03.2013 17:41
Its a cafe.... like any other cafe.... a business to make a living for the people to run it.
It just say happens they want to attract the leftist cappuccino slurpers who read the guardian.
business = way of working for self != giving all money away for free
try reading the linked website, neko
06.03.2013 17:53
We want to be a showcase for all that is best on the left. This project’s name, design, decor, menu and programme of events should all reflect this aim. We host a whole range of readings, book launches, exhibitions, films and talks designed to build the movements, raise awareness and strengthen the left.
What is Firebox?
Answers from trolls have been hidden
IMCista
Well put neko. I think the questions you are asking need...
06.03.2013 19:55
Aunty Christ
Pledge £100 or more......
06.03.2013 20:17
Pledge £100 or more
free dinner for two at Firebox and a signed copy of 'Springtime: The New Student Rebellions' by Firebox project manager and Newsnight celeb Clare Solomon ....
pretty much says it all........
Barry Cade
facts
06.03.2013 21:19
I wouldn't give equal management to my employees
Why should I? They have nothing to lose, I've got £50,000 to lose.
Also, I'd pay myself more than the employees..... otherwise what is the point of setting up the business. I might as well just get a job like they do as I will be better off - same pay but no risks.
Also. stop telling people what they can and can't do.
Its a cafe. Its a business. Go there and buy a coffee or not.
Cheaper food for poor people...... yep, its called a sald rather than a full english breakfast.
There are cheaper foods on the menu and more expensive ones. So yes, there is cheaper food for people with less money
dave
Load of ex-SWP run a caff in King's Cross
06.03.2013 22:05
Bore
Spot on Dave, this place is designed for and should attract..
06.03.2013 22:25
You all deserve each other..
Have a look at the website For fucks sake!
Barry Cade
Donate to Keep Our NHS Public instead
06.03.2013 23:04
Now the student protests and OLSX have (very sadly) fizzled out, Counterfire seem to be pouring resources into this sparsely attended back-street cafe, in preference to the critically urgent business of covering the city with posters and stickers encouraging opposition to privatisation of basic services etc. Obvious ideological differences notwithstanding (ie - they're not Anarchists) these people do mean "well" and they're ALOT better organised than most Anarchist groups (which IS, despite Anarchist denials, a very important issue), but if you've got money to give away, donate to Keep Our NHS Public instead
Manuel González
Hi dave the grumpy...
06.03.2013 23:05
"If I put a load of my own money into a business with the risk of losing it all I wouldn't give equal management to my employees Why should I? They have nothing to lose, I've got £50,000 to lose."
First of all you're assuming that one person is fronting most or all of the money, rather than a collective finding ways to share the risk together. Second, even if that were the case you're assuming there aren't ways to build up trust and comittment to overcome the unequal funding.
"Also, I'd pay myself more than the employees..... otherwise what is the point of setting up the business. I might as well just get a job like they do as I will be better off - same pay but no risks."
No, if you "just got a job" you'd have no control over your job, pay or working conditions. If you get together with mates and run somewhere together as equals, you may still struggle to stay afloat, but you'll never have to grovel to some boss, or accept unreasonable behaviour from customers.
"Also. stop telling people what they can and can't do. Its a cafe. Its a business. Go there and buy a coffee or not."
I didn't. I asked some polite questions of someone that was asking me for a donation. What's got up your nose so badly today? :)
Seems like you're stuck in the dog-eat-dog mindset; with a bit more imagination you'd realise things work out better for everyone when we work together as a pack!
No answer from the Firebox crew yet, but I guess it hasn't been very long..
neko
some answers
06.03.2013 23:15
1) Cafe
-Do all staff get paid the same hourly rate?
Yes, all staff (including the project manager) receive the London Living Wage.
-Do all staff get equal decision making power?
The cafe is a political project run by a group called Counterfire. This group has elected a body to oversee the cafe, which is subject to recall and questioning at any member's and supporter's meeting. Of course, being a political cafe, we are run with democracy and openness in mind - so staff are welcome to present suggestions and propose changes at these meetings. Indeed, our staff have been instrumental in helping fine-tune the daily running of the cafe by implementing their own systems, and suggesting and faciltating new events.
-Are there any owners or shareholders making a profit?
The cafe is run not-for-profit; anything we make over and above our running costs will go to expanding the series of political events we run, or expanding the functionality of the cafe - like the proposed video editing suite for residents and campaigners we are planning to build.
-Is there provision for skint folks to pay less for food?
Our prices are generally regarded as affordable - Time Out said we had food at 'feed the masses prices'. However, we realise there are many people interested in progressive causes that live on or below the poverty line. In this case, of course we would make some arrangements, but this would be on a case-by-case basis. We do need to cover our costs, so we don't have a blanket policy regarding this question!
2) Venue
-Who decides which events you agree to host?
Our general policies (agreed on when we set up the cafe) was that anyone who does not actively work against our basic principles of social justice is free to hire the space. I.e., we would not hire the space to the Conservative Party, or groups further to the right. In terms of events that we put on in collaboration with other groups - i.e. groups that do not pay to use the space, but work directly with Firebox - this is decided by the cafe's elected organising group.
-Who decides which events get cheaper hire rates?
Again, this would be the elected organising group. There is an element of common sense involved here - any local, small or impoverished group that approached us would be likely to get lower rates, but an organisation like Unite, or the Green Party, would not as they clearly have funds available to cover the standard rates.
-What are the cheaper hire rates?(the standard rates seem to be out of reach of most grassroots campaigns groups)
The cheaper hire rates are dependent on the financial situation of the group that apply. As a movement-based project, we rely on honesty. If an organisation comes to us and says they cannot afford the space, we will do everything we can to offer them something at a fee they can afford. So there is no fixed cheaper hire rate - it's down to what people can afford and what we can offer. The standard rates are at the level they are because many large organisations can afford them - and these higher rates go to subsidise smaller groups.
It is worth saying, though, that our room hire rates are low compared to the surrounding area (Camden Town Hall, Marchmont Community Centre, SOAS/ULU and so on).
We are always happy to answer questions and would consider posting an FAQ on the site incorporating some of these questions if there was demand for it. Like I said above, I'd also like to put some of these questions into the FAQ here on Kickstarter if you're okay with that.
I appreciate you taking the time to get in touch though - like you said, if we're asking the movement to fund us we should be accountable to the movement!
via kickstarter
Clare Solomon
06.03.2013 23:17
So, plenty of ammo for anarcho-smugness, but remember Mormonism and Islam convert on a industrial scale compared to the total failure to engage "ordinary" people that characterises anarchism here in the UK ;)
LTJ Bukem
Yah, dahling, ya!
07.03.2013 00:47
Can you spot why this statement just does not work "they're ALOT better organised than most Anarchist groups"?
As in, they have a heirarchy which barks out orders for them to follow. Orders that are completely ineffective but still, they get followed anyway.
We on the other hand work on our own initiatives, and that is why you see us in Egypt, Bahrain, Tunisia, Greece, Germany, France, Spain, England, Wales, Italy, Scotland, Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Mexico, Russia and anywhere else you care to look.
This cafe is of no interest to us at all, and we should not be raising money for these champagne guzzling, cocaine sniffing middle class plastic Socialista.
If you want to do something useful, mask up and join the fight.
Crapenzio Fabalucia.
Really?
07.03.2013 08:06
Everyone just calm down.
Floating Concepts.
Bolly anyone ?
07.03.2013 10:06
Well worth avoiding.
Patsy and Eddie
REMOVE THIS THREAD IMMEDIATELY
07.03.2013 12:01
Quote - "The newswire is... not a notice-board for political parties or any other hierarchically structured organizations" -
Les Mis
IMC guidelines...
07.03.2013 12:05
So, posts by hierarchical authoritarian groups like the CPGB-ML and Counterfire are considered to be OK, but groups who actually stand a chance of achieving anything - like the Green Party - are instantly spiked
Total failure of radical counter-culture in a nutshell
LM
IMC guidelines..
07.03.2013 12:15
Krill
LOL
07.03.2013 14:41
Ha Ha Ha !
Love the idea of the Green Party achieving anything.
Bunch of stupid fuckers the lot of them
LOL
ain't it tho
07.03.2013 15:56
Ain't it the truth.
Holocaust denial has a number of moral issues inextricably embedded within it. It's founded in neo-Nazi propaganda. It's fundamentally anti-Semitic. It's full of easily disproved lies. It's a nutty conspiracy theory of ridiculous scope and improbability, one that makes the "moon landing was fake" guys look like models of rationality in comparison.
Bard's total interest in any of that: exactly zero. He just doesn't care whether he's spreading neo-Nazi bullshit. Morality, shmorality. Who cares, as long as it can be used to bash the Jews. Sorry, "the Zionists."
An hour in a library would be enough to show him just how ridiculous a theory he's defending. He would suddenly understand exactly why people like Shamir and Atzmon and Eisen got swept into the dustbin for embracing it.
But he doesn't care. Fact, schmact! Study, schmudy! All that matters is that he be free to use the rhetoric of naziboys like Zündel and Irving to bash the Jews. Sorry, "the Zionists." He knows that if he puts even the most elementary efforts into studying the Holocaust denier bullshit, he will lose that excuse, that club he likes to wield against the Jewish thought police. Sorry, the "Zionist thought police." He'd rather be dumb, intentionally and self-inflictedly dumb, than relinquish that weapon against the Jews. Sorry, "the Zionists."
And to do that, he has to ignore every other aspect of the phenomenon of Holocaust denial, like its screaming anti-Semitism and bug-eyed conspiracy-mongering, in order to pretend that the only facet about the whole shebang that's worth even mentioning is Jew censorship. Sorry, "Zionist censorship."
And if spreading Holocaust denial is a way to show disdain for Jew censorship - sorry, "Zionist censorship" - then Bard says bring on the Zündel! Bring on the Eisen and the Atzmon!
And that is why Bard can't manage to shake the long-standing public perception that he's in bed with the jackbooters when it comes to the Jews. Not "the Zionists" but the Jews.
from the horse's mouth
trolls surfacing..
07.03.2013 16:06
I suppose any thread with more than a few comments acts as a magnet for people who want to criticise IMC moderators...
neko
nay
07.03.2013 17:30
Some people don't mind because they think the Jews have it coming to them, eh, they have it coming, eh.
And of course some people believe that anyone with the nous to understand the problem have already been driven out of the Indymedia UK collective.
To be offended that an Indymedia UK editor has a hate site on the side is not "trolling" but demanding that Indymedia UK live up to the anti-racist principles spelled out in the Indymedia POU.
from the horse's mouth
Need we say more..../
07.03.2013 20:50
…take a short 3 minute march round the corner from Camden Town Hall to your new local cafe, Firebox,. and take advantage of these special offers for Camden workers*
10% off all food and drink – 15% if you’re on strike!
Come by and try our warming soup or stew for lunch
FFS I think their own adverts... say enough..
Barry Cade
croydon the home of nationalism
08.03.2013 00:54
enochs bunker cafe
Clarifications
08.03.2013 10:54
10% off all food and drink – 15% if you’re on strike!"
Make sure you march on the correct route to get there though otherwise we hold no responsibility for your actions or any legal issues that may arise. Solidarity is a philosophy, not a practice, we read all about it at the University. Also, if you Work in Westminster or Islington or the surrounding areas the committee has unfortunately decided you are not eligible for the Worker Feeding Discount Scheme. However, Workers from Westminster or Islington may be eligible for the Worker Feeding Discount Scheme if they are on strike and a 5% discount will be administered to your final bill. Comrades, if we are to achieve the socialist utopia you must buy our fair trade coffee.
Central Committee
Wow..
09.03.2013 00:08
I hope the answers to the questions that the comrade above asked are sufficient to answer some of your concerns.
I'm quite surprised at the amount of anger/hostility towards the project, though. We have really good relationships with the local residents, campaign groups and unions. And many people have used the space, including IOPS and members of Occupy. We are genuinely commited to welcoming and working with everyone on the left, so I hope some of you sceptics will pop in to see the place for yourself :)
Elly Badcock
e-mail:
elly.badcock@gmail.com
Homepage:
fireboxlondon.net
our demands
09.03.2013 17:21
1. All food and drink should be given free to the working class
2. We should have a right in saying how it is run.
3. You should take all the business risks
working class hero
Indymedia moderators and their never-ending HYPOCRISY
10.03.2013 07:36
The Green Party are nice people who are trying their best, but posts advocating dialogue with the Greens have been spiked by Indy mods on grounds of supporting "hierarchical" politics, in this case however Counterfire are explicitly Leninist as well, ie - the kind of people who systematically murdered Anarchists during the Russian revolution
The objection here (in this specific context) isn't even to Counterfore as such but to the Indy mods for their failure to understand or consistently implement their own guidelines
Bill
Yet more Indy censorship
10.03.2013 07:42
Will.i.am
"Anywhere else you care to look"?
10.12.2013 01:22
Sorry :)
@ Crapenzio
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