http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01hNlYetIQE
Last night another soldier, last night another child
No one seems to worry, no one sees his mother cry
Can you see that smart, clean soldier,
Standing straight and oh so proud
He wants to fight for Queen and country
He wants to make his family proud
A job with the future, his way to get out of it
It's his sense of romance, it never ends that way
Last night another soldier, last night another child
No one seems to worry, no one sees his mother cry
They're just facts and figures on your TV scree
Another child and another soldier, is peace just a dream
In the country strange and foreign all the people resent him
He can't cope with his problems, all the fears and hatred
Now he wish he never went he wish he never thought of it
It's not the same as fighting armies looking for the terrorists
They're just facts and figures...
Can you hear the mocking laughter from the ones that gain by it
They're not in line for the bullets, they're the ones who started it
They're just facts and figures...
Last night another soldier, last night another child
Just a number in the papers, another one of the innocent
They're just facts and figures..

"Calling our soldiers heroes is an attempt to stifle criticism of the wars we are fighting in"? - Remembrance Sunday is, in very significant part, about commemorating people who died fighting Fascism, you fucking morons

wear a white poppy. www.ppu.org.uk

If the Rembrance Sunday was truly about remembering those that fought fascism it might do well to explicityto the brave working class people from the UK and other counties that went to confront Fascism in Spain and the many that gave their lives in doing so. Instead of hanging their heads in shame at their predecessors effective tacit support for the Spanish Fascists the politicians and Royals attending the Remembrance event attempt to maintain and enhance their sense of importance by cashing in on the jingoistic festival.

The last straw was as I listened to the broadcast and heard the announcer introduce Flowers of the Forest saying that while it has previously been played in honour of those that fell on the Western Front it was today being played in honour of the forces that have died in the current Afghan conflict.

So, K1, try spending a little less time wrapping yourself in the Butcher's Apron and a bit more time thinking before calling people morons.

about being blown to bits by a roadside bomb ?

They're not heroes , bring them home.

> "If the Rembrance (sic) was truly about remembering those that fought fascism it might do well to explicityto (sic) the brave working class people from the UK and other counties that went to confront Fascism in Spain and the many that gave their lives in doing so"?

Remembrance Sunday is about commemorating those who died in war, including, but not exclusively, those who died fighting Fascism (as several members of my family died). Of course however, you're right, it should include the Spanish Civil War, but because Spain was not a war Britain was officially involved in it does not. Britain's track record in selling-out the Spanish Republic was disgusting, but the way to deal with that is to campaign for recognition of Spanish veterans in this context and not to make stupid comments which insult everyone else.....

> "Instead of hanging their heads in shame at their predecessors effective tacit support for the Spanish Fascists the politicians and Royals attending the Remembrance event attempt to maintain and enhance their sense of importance by cashing in on the jingoistic festival"?

Of course establishment figures try to hijack and exploit Remembrance Sunday, as indeed by definition they try to exploit EVERYTHING. The task falls upon radicals to either perceive this political opportunity as a cup half empty or as a cup half full - either as an opportunity to alienate almost everyone whose parents or grandparents suffered during WW2, WW1, from the death camps and from the Blitz etc, or as an opportunity to promote the social legacy of anti-fascism. Yes the establishment try to hi-jack public perceptions of war, as indeed they try to hi-jack perceptions of economics and of everything else - our task is to respond to that by trying to reciprocally "hi-jack" perceptions of war OURSELVES by promoting socially and politically progressive interpretations of our forefathers' historic legacy rather than just coming across (like you do) as an insensitive jerk

> "The last straw was as I listened to the broadcast and heard the announcer introduce Flowers of the Forest saying that while it has previously been played in honour of those that fell on the Western Front it was today being played in honour of the forces that have died in the current Afghan conflict"?

Nought out of ten for ability to perceive the bigger picture! Remembrance Sunday endures because it means something to everyone who participates in it. Veterans and relatives of working-class soldiers, sailors, aircrews and merchant seamen see themselves in these ceremonies, and unfortunately Tory twats, jingoists and Royalists see themselves in these ceremonies as well. Picking which group you want to root for is a strategy that doesn't end-up alienating the WHOLE lot.

> "So, K1, try spending a little less time wrapping yourself in the Butcher's Apron and a bit more time thinking before calling people morons"

The reason you're a moron is because you're too stupid to understand that at no time was I ever "wrapping myself in the Butcher's apron"

There's nothing heroic about being blown to bits by a roadside bomb, but have the bottle to stand up in person and say that face-to-face to the soldiers families' rather than posting shit on Indymedia that only proves why the left, anarchos, radicals and the anti-war movement have so consistently failed to engage working-class people (despite the fact that it's the working-class who fight and die in rich men's wars)

Seriously, your insights are so profound I have no idea where I was until you came along and switched on the light... apologies for the sarcasm, but please spare us your statements of the obvious and show us how it is that you personally are going to lead the way in terms of actually solving this problem?!

Satisfied with the solution?

Do not join the army to fight in " richmans " wars. Another solution.

As the original articles message says , the word hero has been cleverly used to deflect criticism of the occupation of Afghanistan.

I agree there's nothing heroic about falling victim to a roadside bomb, but whether you agree with that politically or not, the act of being out on patrol in Afghanistan however does require some courage.

The POINT however is first that Poppy Day commemorations go back as far as and use the imagery of the trenches in WW1, and cover a whole history of death, violence and State exploitation that precedes the Afghan war by almost 100 years; second the rhetoric of heroism is not only used by the State as an instrument of propaganda, it's also used by and for families to help soften the emotional impact of their loss, and, as usual, naive radicals act on impulse, in reaction to seeing someone idiot mouthing-off on TV, rather than choosing to see the bigger picture and showing sensitivity to relatives of millions of dead.

When the peace movement was really massive during the 1980s the right-wing media (successfully) drove a wedge between peace activists and the working-class, by misrepresenting peace activism as disrespectful to veterans... the tragedy is that this time round some activists are daft enough to do that to themselves

There aint no legitimate war in the boardrooms of the corporate classes. Everybody who dies fighting their wars is a mug...period.

Who the fuck would want to honour the military dead of WW2...63,000,000 people died in that war. Thats more than the entire population of the UK.

If you killed every single human being in the UK, right now, every single one...you would still be short by a million people.

WW2 saw 23,000,000 soldiers die but in the same war 33,000,000 civilians died. That means 10,000,000 more civilans died than soldiers, but where is the honour for the fallen public, the civilians who were industrially slaughtered by the tonne? There is no honour for them because its the military that does the honouring and the military is too totalitarian to ever want to pay homage to its victims.

The remembrance ceremony in November in London is a shocking, controversial and deeply vile ceremony undertaken by those who just don't fucking care about anything except their own morally retarded values and they want the rest of us to care about them aswell. They have promoted their own ceremony and used it to hijack what is far more important...justice for their victims. Thats what that ceremony is about...its about "owning" the day and denying the truth.

No reasonable person can honour soldiers because there is nothing to honour. As the previous poster says, there is no honour in getting blown to pieces by a road-side bomb. If it happens to you and you call for help...you sir, are a fucking coward.

Fuck the military and fuck supporting them.

Let them die in fucking droves.

>> Who the fuck would want to honour the military dead of WW2...63,000,000 people died in that war. Thats more than the entire population of the UK.

Nice... yeah - just fuck 'em eh? Spit on 63,000,000 people why don't you.


>> WW2 saw 23,000,000 soldiers die but in the same war 33,000,000 civilians died. That means 10,000,000 more civilans died than soldiers, but where is the honour for the fallen public, the civilians who were industrially slaughtered by the tonne? There is no honour for them because its the military that does the honouring and the military is too totalitarian to ever want to pay homage to its victims.

Oh, so its just a numbers game? The group with the most gets the honour?
FAIL. Soldiers put themselves in a much, much, much more dangerous position than civilians. Its called sacrifice - they put their lives forward in an effort to protect civilians.


>> The remembrance ceremony in November in London is a shocking, controversial and deeply vile ceremony undertaken by those who just don't fucking care about anything except their own morally retarded values and they want the rest of us to care about them aswell. They have promoted their own ceremony and used it to hijack what is far more important...justice for their victims. Thats what that ceremony is about...its about "owning" the day and denying the truth.

Oh fuck off. Go and rot in a hole of your own vile contempt whilst the rest of us get on with leading normal lives. Take your vile hatred and rot in a cellar.


>> No reasonable person can honour soldiers because there is nothing to honour. As the previous poster says, there is no honour in getting blown to pieces by a road-side bomb. If it happens to you and you call for help...you sir, are a fucking coward.

So if you are blown up by a road side bomb, and you call for an ambulance, we can tell you to fuck off then? Great.


>> Fuck the military and fuck supporting them.

Hmmmm..... except when they are defending you yeah?
You would be the one screaming like a little girl at the back crying out for protection when shit hits the fan i bet. "Please dont let the evil nazis take me,... im too weak and pathetic to defend myself against a brigade of Tiger tanks and SS soldiers - I want someone to do it for me whilst I hide my head in the sand".


>> Let them die in fucking droves.

Let you die in a hole asshole.

Nan said they had sod all after the first world war.. Hence the saying poppyshow.