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Oct20: we got work to do ...

peep | 21.10.2012 13:07

Some thoughts on yesterday. To discuss ...

100,000, or however many, trade unionists shuffled to Hyde Park again. Following up so swiftly on the last great TUC demo just 18 months ago, the coalition government are sure to listen. The high point of the day was an effective blockade of Marble Arch by disabled activists and others, but we'll wait for analysis from people who were more involved in that. Elsewhere, a couple of hundred anarchos and other motley crew ran around Oxford Street, splintering and outrunning plod to reassemble and ... shout a few slogans at some shops. One woman was assaulted and arrested by TSG on Oxford Street at 3.30 pm (please contact Green & Black Cross if you witnessed that), otherwise there seem to have been few arrests.

On the whole, another damp squib. Anyone surprised? But let's take this opportunity to do some proper reflecting and think how we can do things better in future. Looking to the G8 in London next June. We CAN have an impact on the streets (which is one part, by no means the whole, of building up a real resistance). We can outwit the cops. We can make these our streets. But if want to have a future, we really do need to put some work in.

A few thoughts from the Oxford street side of things:

** This felt a lot like that last student demo before M26 (29 Jan 2011) where people evaded the kettles, outran the cops, split up and regrouped, and then did absolutely nothing. To be negative: what, we're right back there again? To be positive: we needed to get that confidence back that we could outrun plod, after post riots "total policing". Jan 2011 opened the way for M26, where people made plans and got prepared for action. Similarly, maybe people needed this experience of mobility to get things started again.

** On the other hand, mobility is great, but it's also a good idea to look behind you and make sure everyone else is keeping up. The breakaway from Trafalgar Square soon split in half because the front group ran too far ahead, and so lost its strength as a bloc. People seemed to be panicked by any cop movement. There is strength in movement, but maybe more strength in numbers. Don't panic! Look around you. Stick together and support each other.

** Don't panic, because “total policing” is really just a cock-waving posture: the truth is they don't have total resources. The 9 November 2011 student demo was an intimidating display of massive force, in which the whole demo was effectively kettled from start to finish. It worked, people got intimidated. (Not to mention the vicious riots sentencing.) But they can't pull that off every time.

** So if we can get mobility, and also keep blocks together, what do we do with it? Sometimes things happen spontaneously, amazingly. But more often than not, not. At least some people need to come ready with ideas, plans, something prepared. The disabled activists had something prepared. SolFed had their workfare shouting thing prepared. No one else did. Everyone else just seemed to be along for a ride, and no one wanted to drive.

** Sorry, this isn't meant to be a criticism of SolFed, but the workfare shouting thing wasn't enough. It played a good role on May Day, when nothing more seemed possible. But yesterday a lot more could have happened. You have a black bloc of a hundred plus, and lots more running with them and up for it, you run the cops a merry dance. If you want to shout at a few shops and block a few doorways for a bit you really don't need to go to all that trouble. You could just walk peaceably up to Oxford Street road and do it. If you go to all that trouble, get all that adrenalin up, then shouting at a few shops feels like a let-down. Again, this isn't to blame SolFed, it's not their fault no one else had any other ideas.

** The message: if you want stuff to happen on the streets, form affinity groups, talk and think about what you could do, and prepare in advance. You can prepare a mass action and advertise a meet-up point or whatever. Or you can just form a small group with the intention to start doing something, to spark things off as the energy spreads. In either case, you need to start something, and come prepared. And we could do with new ideas, new tactics, new ways to make flashpoints and spread rebellion and the passion for freedom. So let's start brainstorming now. Don't wait for someone else to do it. Do it yourself.

peep

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agreed

21.10.2012 13:25

This matches pretty well with my experience of the day:
 http://indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/10/501577.html?c=on#c288411

anon


Basic arithmetic

21.10.2012 14:01

The "damp squib" analysis is literally a total joke. Autonomous networks mobilise a few hundred people, the TUC mobilise 150,000. No matter how ineffective the TUC (or indeed any campaigning organisation, including radical groups) might be, they're all LESS effective when they mobilise less people, and the numbers effectively mobilised by anarcho-type arguments, rhetoric, propaganda and actions etc factually speak for themselves. Is there something about emotional identification with and social participation in the activist ghetto that robs activists of their ability to handle basic arithmetic?

Skye


arithmetic?

21.10.2012 14:39

The govt doesn't decide whether to concede based on only numbers. It depends whether those numbers are willing to do stuff that is a threat to the govt and their interests. The example most often used to illustrate this is the anti-war demos which included millions in London (and many millions more worldwide on the same day) which were ignored.

But more importantly, both the author of the main article and of the arithmetic comment need to show some fucking solidarity. It isn't a contest to see who can belittle the other group's tactics and actions. We're on the same bloody side!

anonymous


solidarity

21.10.2012 15:20

As "kinggeorge" commented on another thread: "The filth and the tory`s dont give a shit about 150000 marching peacefully, but a few hundred protesters prepared to risk a few months in the slammer really puts the wind up them."

That's right. Numbers mean nothing unless those numbers on the street are a sign of an actual threat to the system, and so call for a response, or perhaps some concession. If they know the million people will never do anything more than march, that doesn't worry them at all. A few hundred people, on the other hand, really can pose a threat if they put their minds to it and are prepared to take some risks. Mainly because once a few cracks start appearing in the general passivity, that rebellion can spread pretty quick.

Unfortunately, the demo yesterday didn't see a few hundred protesters prepared to take much risk. A few hundred people looked and talked the part, but when it came to it weren't going to take much risk at all.

Yes we need solidarity. We should support each other whatever our tactics, whatever risks we are prepared to take. That doesn't mean we shouldn't think critically. It's not an attack on the mass of marchers to point out that the tactics pushed by their leaders will not lead anywhere. Of course, those well paid union leaders have no interest in things changing anyway. Solidarity with the marchers. None with the corrupt fat cat union and labour party bosses.

an


contradiction?

21.10.2012 18:33

'One woman was assaulted and arrested by TSG'
An assault is NOT a legitimate thing to do. It is criminal.
An arrest is a legitimate thing to do.
Are you sure she was arrested and not kidnaped by TSG?

anarchist


TUC demos and direct action can co-exist alongside each other

21.10.2012 21:19

if this was a damp squib, the sol-fed action in oxford street was 300 times MORE of a damp squib! the truth - however - is, that BOTH were a strong success, well done all involved

anyone who tries to make out mainstream TUC demos and direct action can't co-exist alongside each other is almost certainly from the other side ;)

Nax


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Lessons to be learnt

22.10.2012 06:48

Numbers attending where less that hoped for

Yet one more slow walk through the streets of London achieving nothing

Limited resistance to the state machine was disappointing.




Speaking as an individual who is both militant and supportive of the idea that only violence will overthrow the state I was disappointed to see and experience very little of either on Saturday. The TUC is very effective at getting numbers on the streets (much better than us in the Anarchist movement let's face it) but they are also superb at controlling those people once they are there. I saw TUC stewards working closely with both uniformed and plain clothes pigs to ensure any dissent was quickly stepped on and anger was calmed before it could develop. When I asked what the hell the TUC were doing working with pigs I was told they were working class people like us and deserved respect !!!

Big city marches are never going to change anything, they probably build a little bit of interest from new people but nothing beyond that. I am more convinced now than I have ever been that grass routes organising in schools, workplaces, universities and the media is the only way the capitalist system will ultimately be overthrown. The TUC is simply an extension of the current system and provides legitimacy to it.

Proud to have been there but ........


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Apathy

22.10.2012 08:36

Yes people are angry but for some reason seem not to be rising up. The anger is often diverted into local street violence but not targeted against institutions of the State or the Financial industry that has caused the problems we face.

The current youth that I work with are probably the least political I have ever known, they are completely apathetic to the political process and what is more worrying simply do not think they can change anything. The idea of being involved in any form of political activity is alien to them and they see no link between the deprivations they endure and the policies of the ConDems or the bankers in the City. When I tried to get some of them to come with me to the march on Saturday I was greeted with incredulity and laughter and this morning not one of them had watched the march, known anybody who went or have any interest in it or the issues behind why we marched. This from a group that is based in London and are no more than 20 minutes from central London on the tube ! They viewed the riots last year as a chance to "get some stuff" with no political link or involvement.

I really do not know where we go from here and would welcome ideas and advice.

Youth worker


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Apathy

22.10.2012 13:43

Yes people are angry but for some reason seem not to be rising up. The anger is often diverted into local street violence but not targeted against institutions of the State or the Financial industry that has caused the problems we face.

The current youth that I work with are probably the least political I have ever known, they are completely apathetic to the political process and what is more worrying simply do not think they can change anything. The idea of being involved in any form of political activity is alien to them and they see no link between the deprivations they endure and the policies of the ConDems or the bankers in the City. When I tried to get some of them to come with me to the march on Saturday I was greeted with incredulity and laughter and this morning not one of them had watched the march, known anybody who went or have any interest in it or the issues behind why we marched. This from a group that is based in London and are no more than 20 minutes from central London on the tube ! They viewed the riots last year as a chance to "get some stuff" with no political link or involvement.

I really do not know where we go from here and would welcome ideas and advice.

Youth worker


Basic arithmetic pt. 2

22.10.2012 16:40

Sadly, the damp squib argument is very much correct. Remember the big march last year, when 250,000-500,000 people took to the streets? Remember how that had no impact on Tory policy whatsoever, and the genuinely impressive strikes on J30 and N30 were then totally fucked over by a sell-out deal last December? Anyway, the bottom line is that if you get 500,000 people to go on a protest one year, and then do fuck-all for a year and a half before calling another protest with 100,000 people on it, the message it sends is "you'd better listen to us, or we'll wait another year and then call another protest with even fewer people on it!" If we can't even face up to reality and assess the situation we're in honestly, there is no way we can get out of the mess we're in.

Anarchist


Where were the rudeboys?

23.10.2012 03:20

I'm assuming after the 2011 summer riots, news editors were briefed by a Senior policeman not to hype up anything that could invite civil disorder...
this demo has lacked the usual "anarchists plan myhem" headlines which normally draw in the crowds...

maybe the various anarcho groups have to up they're game getting out flyposting homemade posters/graffiting messages way in advance in they're local areas.

Is there a crew in your area who do raves? is there a pirate radio station?

make contact with the local rude boys, and make sure they know about these demos, they're what made the December 2010 student demo so fucking nuts, just like reclaim the streets.
anytime the TUC organise a demo try turn it into a reclaim the streets.

don't waste your time looking for other activists, or a "euro/international call out" for foreign psyco anarchos instead make new activists, recruit.

if your a raver or a punk, they're pissed off people up and down the country who want to come out on the streetss, go to the gigs, concerts, raves and hand out flyers.
You a colledge student? you at uni? you in the army? you in a union?

the person next to you on the bus... they're all pissed off. chat to people...

you ain't got any flyers?
design one.

hijack all the TUC events!




(rude boy ain't offensive, i'm sick of posh kids telling me its somesort of chav word, it ain't!)

mary


Anarchist logic?

23.10.2012 13:19

How can protests against a government who've made more U-turns than any other in political history be thought of as having "had no impact on Tory policy whatsoever"? Sure they havn't had ENOUGH impact - nowhere near enough, and of course I agree the TUC should have followed 26 March 2011 with another massive demo as soon as possible and it's ridiculous the TUC dragged their heels for so long, but you can insult the working people who made the effort to show-up on Oct 20 if, when and AFTER you can prove the Anarchist movement can actually do better.

As people have said before, getting trades unionists to even bother to fill-in the ballot forms they're sent by their own organisations is nigh-on impossible, looking forward to you proving you can handle the logistics of organising a general strike... a general strike held somewhere outside of your daydreams that is. Everyone's a critic

Nov 5


Promote the Nov 5 and Nov 21st demos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

23.10.2012 13:21

Get out on the fucking streets with stickers, posters and leaflets and promote the Nov 5 Anonymous and Nov 21st NUS demos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#


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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Good discussion (by IM standards)...

31.10.2012 16:05

...but what's with the hidden comments? Don't see any guideline violations there - other than the unwritten one of "thou shalt not say anything that bruises an editors' ego".

tired of Indymedia heavy-handed moderating
- Homepage: https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/10/501592.html?c=all


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